New Russian GPS system!!!!!

[cormorant]

Does anyone know anything about this and is there any plans to bring out system that can cross check between current system and the Russian system?? Could this mean even more accurate and reliable positions for everything and is there new accuracy on the current system that will get released to fight off a possible competitor? Russians have invented some brilliant technology over the years but implementation in non millitary areas has been a bit flakey


Putin's dog trials Russian GPS<LI class="save cliparticle" id=1224351233076 style="DISPLAY: none">October 21, 2008 - 12:39PM

Guide dog ... Vladimir Putin watches his pet Labrador, Koni, in a trial of Russia's emerging satellite navigation system. Reuters


Russia's satellite navigation system isn't fully operational yet, but it seems to work on Prime Minister Vladimir Putin's dog.
Putin listened as his deputy, Sergei Ivanov, briefed him on the progress of the Global Navigation Satellite System. Then footage broadcast on Russian TV showed them try a collar containing satellite-guided positioning equipment on the prime minister's black Labrador, Koni.
Ivanov said that the equipment goes on a standby mode when "the dog doesn't move; if it, say, lies down in a puddle".
Putin interrupted him jokingly: "My dog isn't a piglet, it doesn't lie in puddles."
"She wags her tail, she likes it," Putin said after watching Koni outside his collonaded residence on Moscow's western outskirts.
The navigation system, which goes by the acronym GLONASS, was developed during the Soviet era as a response to the US Global Positioning System (GPS), but it has been slow to take shape amid the post-Soviet economic meltdown.
The government had promised to make the system fully operational by the beginning of this year, but it was delayed by equipment flaws and other technical problems.
Ivanov told Putin the system would have 21 satellites by the year's end - enough to provide navigation services over the entire Russian territory.
Ivanov said it would be available worldwide by the end of next year, for which it would need to have 24 satellites.
AP

[reidy]

Nato is also implementing a gps system for the European military independent of the US system.Dont know if it will be acessable to the general public.
I guess the major military players dont wish to be tied to the US system due to the fact they (the US) can block access at will so crippling many major weapons systems eg gps guided munitions,naval navagation etc.The Chineese are attempting to do the same.
Cheers
Reidy.

[tropicrows]

I have heard of of a Brisbane based GPS mapping company, that uses the US & a Russian GPS system now. They are able to map in 3 planes XY & Z to within 5 mm.

[GBC]

Just buy a differential receiver for your current gps - it won't get any better than that for fishing - depending on where on your boat the receiver is.

[SatNav]

1. Glonass is nothing new and has been around for quite some time

2. The Soviet financial situation a few years ago saw little or no money directed towards Glonass and it deteriorated to an unhealhty level

3. Russia has now commited to putting the system back to full strength and this has been in progress for a few years and will continue

4. There is not much point to implement Glonass into recreational receivers

5. GPS+Glonass receivers are currently used widely in many applications

[SatNav]

1. NATO has nothing to do with Galileo which is being developed by the EU

2. When Galileo is eventually in orbit and transmitting a useful signal then it might be time to think about it

3. Until then it simply doesn't exist and on current forecast won;t exist until at least 2013, maybe?

[reidy]

1. NATO has nothing to do with Galileo which is being developed by the EU

2. When Galileo is eventually in orbit and transmitting a useful signal then it might be time to think about it

3. Until then it simply doesn't exist and on current forecast won;t exist until at least 2013, maybe?
According to Military Technology journal published in Germany late last year the EU nato members are demanding a system that is not reliant on the US. Quote; The political aim is to provide an independent positioning system upon which European (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe) nations can rely on even in times of war or political disagreement, since Russia or the USA could disable use of their national systems by others (through encryption).
When the Eu took control of developing Galileo in 2007 from European Satellite Navagation Industries (who were developing Galileo) they ensured that Natos EU members had the military gps system they required fully independant of outside infulence.Good strategic logic under the cover of 'CIVILIAN SYSTEM"
You just need to read between the lines.
Cheers
Reidy

[Mindi]

Just buy a differential receiver for your current gps - it won't get any better than that for fishing - depending on where on your boat the receiver is.

Surely with the disabling of Selective Availability there is no point to DGPS any more...there is no time differential to resolve.

[GBC]

These guys are talking about getting more accurate fixes than the current gps system. That's why I mentioned it - its available.

Standard is perfectly fine for fishing of course, however its reliability isn't guaranteed. If a DGPS station is going to be off air a notice to mariners is issued, which generally only happens during servicing time.

You'd be better off asking satnav etc., about the ins and outs - I built DGPS stations but the techs didn't teach me too much about how they work.;)

[cormorant]

Mindi

There is accurate and then there is millitary deadly accurate

Thanks to all who have provided info

[SatNav]

1. The major problem with Galileo has always been funding and the complete inability for so many countries (and companies) to agree, on just about anything.

2. The problem that will follow Galileo is that it will technically be run by civil authorities (another decision who?) and if ever there is a stouch between EU countries then guess what?

3. Where the EU got their nose out of joint was they expected (almost demanded) the US to allow some control ogf GPS by the EU, will never happen, must never happen

4. Galileo's hurdles are mostly political and in fighting which does not and will not (never) occur with GPS.

5. There is nothing to read bewteen the lines about Galileo

[SatNav]

"Surely with the disabling of Selective Availability there is no point to DGPS any more...there is no time differential to resolve."

1. GPS accuracy (without Selective Availability) is not absolute and neither is DGPS but by far the most important thing with DGPS is the position integrity, that is knowing the position is good or bad by effectively monitoring the satellites and notifying the user in a timely manner.

2. Standard GPS accuracy (< 7m @ 95%) is fine for many civil uses

[SatNav]

"These guys are talking about getting more accurate fixes than the current gps system. That's why I mentioned it - its available."

1. NO Glonass does not allow more accurate fixes but does give more satellite coverage thus reducing (improving) low satellite coverage with GPS alone especially in obstructed environments.

2. Glonass can actually hinder accuracy due to operating on a different datum, different reference frame, different signals, different time and orbit/other parameters which are at times not as tightly controlled as GPS.

3. Glonass is moving to be better aligned with GPS operating parameters

[SatNav]

"There is accurate and then there is millitary deadly accurate"

1. This military deadly accurate stuff does not exist in the context that many believe.

2. Accuracy is relative to the intended purpose and the military Precise Positioning Service (PPS) is not deadly accurate at all even compared to some civil systems but then each has a purpose.

3. But then it really doesn't matter if a Tomahawk is within 10mm or 10000mm of the mark the result is actually the same

[GBC]

See - like what he said.....8-)

Nice to see someone who is authoritative on one subject rather than a professional amateur like me eh.

[reidy]

1. The major problem with Galileo has always been funding and the complete inability for so many countries (and companies) to agree, on just about anything.

2. The problem that will follow Galileo is that it will technically be run by civil authorities (another decision who?) and if ever there is a stouch between EU countries then guess what?

3. Where the EU got their nose out of joint was they expected (almost demanded) the US to allow some control ogf GPS by the EU, will never happen, must never happen

4. Galileo's hurdles are mostly political and in fighting which does not and will not (never) occur with GPS.

5. There is nothing to read bewteen the lines about Galileo
The EU transfered funds from their agriculture development fund to finance the continued delelopment and implementation of Galileo late last year.
To true with the EU's expectations re the us gps system were way to high,looking for stratigic autonomy that the US would/will never agree to.
the current financial crisis may unite the EU much more quickly The most notable exeption may be the UK.
CEP 10mm-1000mm yes sir if your standing there it it's goodbye Whats a metre to a tommahawk.As you are awear the munitions that fit through windows are mostly laser designated (guided)
all the best
Reidy

[SatNav]

1. Galileo does not have a very good track record to date after comments made in 1999 that a full 30 satellite system would be operational by 2008.

2. All the many many disagreements, the in fighting, the failed consortiums, the EU and ESA have failed to deliver and at one point appeared completely doomed

3. Yes and now the system is being funded from LEFTOVER agriculture and other administrative/transport funds which asks the question just how serious the EU really is? But then funding has been one of the biggest barriers to the system from day 1

4. You can bet your bottom $$ Galileo will have to run mostly as a commercial operation, user pays type system

[SatNav]

So is anybody worried about GPS failing?

1. 19 satellites are past design life

2. 18 satellites are one component away from a nav payload failure

3. 8 satellites are one component away from a bus failure

4. There are eight(8) more satellites in orbit than specifications guarantee

5. There are eleven(11) more satellites available than the accuracy specifications are based on

[reidy]

Yep civi users will be the ones who will pay for it's upkeep once its in place thats for sure.
Intesesting subject thanks Satnav
Cheers
Reidy

[SatNav]

Nato is also implementing a gps system for the European military independent of the US system.Dont know if it will be acessable to the general public.
I guess the major military players dont wish to be tied to the US system due to the fact they (the US) can block access at will so crippling many major weapons systems eg gps guided munitions,naval navagation etc.The Chineese are attempting to do the same.
Cheers
Reidy.

1. One additional point. Galileo will have absolutely no military capacity at all. Galileo is targeting a completely civil system with any future military capability an awfull long way off, if ever? There are numerous almost insurmountable issues with Galileo having any military capability.

2. The US is part of Nato and many of the Nato Supreme Allied Commanders are in fact US military staff.

[reidy]

1. According to Eurpean military journals the EU nato members are pushing this issue as we speak.
2. Yes sir they are, as well as Canada and several ex Warsaw Pact nations and ex Soviet republics.The core EU nato members eg Germany, France,Italy and to a lesser degree the UK are looking 15 years into the future with regards to this.
It makes stratigic sense not to put all your eggs into one basket.
Cheers
Reidy

[PinHead]

So is anybody worried about GPS failing?

1. 19 satellites are past design life

2. 18 satellites are one component away from a nav payload failure

3. 8 satellites are one component away from a bus failure

4. There are eight(8) more satellites in orbit than specifications guarantee

5. There are eleven(11) more satellites available than the accuracy specifications are based on

don't care if it fails or not..lived quite well prior to its creation..and won't suffer if it goes down.

I do have to ask...where does all this info re satellites come from? re failures etc

[SatNav]

"don't care if it fails or not..lived quite well prior to its creation..and won't suffer if it goes down."

1. You are then probaly not aware of how critical many of your everyday systems are reliant on GPS for timing?

"I do have to ask...where does all this info re satellites come from? re failures etc"

2. There is nothing top secret about current GPS satellite status