Chinese boats

[Steboe]

Has anyone bought one the chinese boats on ebay

[Noelm]

perhaps you should read the post about Boats from Japan just down the page a bit, although if new, then they MAY be OK, may not as well of course.

[Steboe]

New tinnies, sold in Australia

[TimiBoy]

I had a long chat with a boat builder recently (builds big Cats) who had spent 8 years in China building boats.

He has a very, very high opinion of the quality of fibreglass boats being made in China now. He sees them as a very real and immediate threat to the local industry, which needs to innovate, consolidate, and economise in a hurry, or die.

Competition will dramatically increase once economies get the current crap sorted out. That's my pick!

Cheers,

Tim

[malolo]

Hi Guys

I bought a boat from China about 18 months ago. Fitted it out myself etc. It is great and I have had no problems. Best thing was that I could get on the water in a new rig at a reasonable price. The picture of my boat is on my avatar.

Cheers
Mark

[reidy]

There goes another Australian industry down the drain.
Spend the extra a keep our boatbuilding industry alive.
Just my opinion
Cheers all
Reidy

[Dirtysanchez]

It depends on how much you can save, it were only hundreds of dolars my sentiment stays with the local product.. If it were in the vicinity of 3-5K dollars on a larger boat, how can you pass those savings up if the quality is acceptable ?

[PinHead]

There goes another Australian industry down the drain.
Spend the extra a keep our boatbuilding industry alive.
Just my opinion
Cheers all
Reidy

Maybe the local builders should spend some time and effort and improve their product to be comptetitive with overseas makes.

[Aunty Jack]

Theres an old saying if you pay peanuts you get monkeys
In other words you get what you pay for

[Taroona]

Check this link for chinese built boats and the competition that Aussie boat builders have.

http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boat-review/2990054.aspx

And there are also a lot of big yachts being built there as well.

[TimiBoy]

It's amazing how much quality you can get for stuff all money when you are producing 10 or 20+ thousand boats of a marque per year.

The only reasons I picked the Cruisecraft over a Yankee boat were resale and beam. Quality? The Proline quality was all over the Cruisecraft like a rash. That was in 85 cents to the dollar days, of course...

IMO for an Australian made product we should be getting gold plated boats for what they cost. We do not have the economies of scale we require to compete globally in boats.

Supporting local Business is fine if the $ add up. Otherwise, they will wind up or get into something else. Global market, that's life. Whether you like it or not, it's reality - get used to it, or go down. Ain't the jungle tough?

Cheers,

Tim

[FNQCairns]

Sometimes buying Australian feels like handing over my wallet with the attendant saying "you sure I can just take whatever I want?".

Especially now that they have me over an AUD barrel. I cannot see the value in the Australian asking price, so I have nothing to buy now until the dollar gets better...long drought of making do ahead.

If I have not been on a budget I cannot remember it, the Chinese boats would be my first pick for new glass if the quality that should be there, for the price even they ask, is there.

cheers fnq

[sharkcat one]

Hi everyone,
I am a boat builder on the gold coast with my own company.

It is a shame that people are looking o/s for cheap boats , I can understand that
people have too save money in these times , but spending that little bit extra on
aus boats will save jobs and what I have heard about the asia boats is that if you have a warranty claim , forget it , as for after market help forget it too. At least with Aus boats after market help is always their.

Aus boats are dearer some of the reasons are labour costs are too high in Aus.
another is about 60% of the building materials needed to build boats comes from
o/s and with our low $ it is not good .

So to all the people out there who say that aus boat builders need to be more competitive, maybe your are right . Maybe I should FIRE my 25 staff and build boats in asia where i can pay my new workers $20 and a bowl of rice instead of $600-$800 p/week each . and lets not forget about the EPA requirements in Aus
for having a boat building company and the $200,000 you need to spend to make them sometimes happy, I know in asia the EPA doesn't exist.

MAYBE YOU people are right ????

[sharkcat one]

Hi everyone,
I am a boat builder on the gold coast with my own company.

It is a shame that people are looking o/s for cheap boats , I can understand that
people have too save money in these times , but spending that little bit extra on
aus boats will save jobs and what I have heard about the asia boats is that if you have a warranty claim , forget it , as for after market help forget it too. At least with Aus boats after market help is always their.

Aus boats are dearer some of the reasons are labour costs are too high in Aus.
another is about 60% of the building materials needed to build boats comes from
o/s and with our low $ it is not good .

So to all the people out there who say that aus boat builders need to be more competitive, maybe your are right . Maybe I should FIRE my 25 staff and build boats in asia where i can pay my new workers $20 and a bowl of rice instead of $600-$800 p/week each . and lets not forget about the EPA requirements in Aus
for having a boat building company and the $200,000 you need to spend to make them sometimes happy, I know in asia the EPA doesn't exist.

MAYBE YOU people are right ????

[PinHead]

sahrkcat..not everyone looks for a "cheap" boat but perhaps more features for their dollars. My experiences:
Previous boat - 30' sports cruiser.
US Boat - bigger in volume than local so called 32' boat. positive flotation in US boat..none in Aus boat. One local dealer told me I could not afford the 30' boat (US made) he was selling and would not even let me on it to have a look at it.
US boat had better quality electrical components and came standard with 4 batteries..local boat - 3. The US boat in this instance was 25k cheaper than local boat. Delivery times - local boat - up to 5 months. US boat - 12 weeks from factory with the options I wanted done i nthe factory. It actually arrived 2 days late as ship was held up with hurricane activity and they emailed me to notify of same.

Current boat - 18.5'. similar dollars to local boat - mid 60's. US boat - positive level flotation as required by US Coast Guard regulations. Local boat - positive floatation as a new feature but not guaranteed level. Local boat - self draining decks...but where are the scuppers..Oh, it drains into the bilge and the pump clears it..that is great if the pump fails. US boat..self draining with scuppers. Local boat 150l fuel tank as standard. US Boat - 250l as standard. Quite a few others other features on US baot that local boat does not have.

The yanks do have a much bigger market and manufacturing larger numbers obviously leads to better prices and features.

Perhaps the local builders should look a bit more at the features on the boats they are building and also the delivery times.
It is all well and good to talk about local jobs but, are we, as local workers expected to spend extra money on products we want to support others? I don't see too many people rushing to pump money into my business and we sell nearly all imported products..very few Aus manufacturers in my industry.
I think the internet has really opened the eyes of a lot of consumers as to the money that can be saved. We all want our toys but we also like to be able to get them at fair prices without sending ourselves broke in the process.
I have no problem in spending money on items I want but i also want value for money and if I cannot get it in a locally made product then I will look elsewhere.

[sharkcat one]

Thank you pinhead for input,
something does need to be done from the aus gov to keep small companies from moving o/s .
I have looked into moving o/s and I can build the same boats with more features
extra batteries , fuel, etc. for about 40% cheaper , this is alot of money.

even building boats in the US is alot cheaper than AUS , high labour costs , high shed rental, Epa requirements, payroll tax ( this is one tax that i do not understand if i have more than 19 employees i get taxed another 3% again , so i have to pay more tax if i employ more people , does't make sense ) .
in the last 5 years more than 20 - 30 boat companies have shut down , gone broke or moved o/s , if this is not an indercation of something wrong in our industry i don't know what is.

we in australia can not build cheaper boats than asian boats , if we add more features it costs more . labour costs are the big one , we pay $500-$900 p/week per employee , they pay $20-$100 per week per employee

tell me how to compete againist this and i will

we need the gov to do something about the cheap imports
or there will be alot more people out of work.

[Mindi]

Hi everyone,
I am a boat builder on the gold coast with my own company.

It is a shame that people are looking o/s for cheap boats , I can understand that
people have too save money in these times , but spending that little bit extra on
aus boats will save jobs and what I have heard about the asia boats is that if you have a warranty claim , forget it , as for after market help forget it too. At least with Aus boats after market help is always their.

Aus boats are dearer some of the reasons are labour costs are too high in Aus.
another is about 60% of the building materials needed to build boats comes from
o/s and with our low $ it is not good .

So to all the people out there who say that aus boat builders need to be more competitive, maybe your are right . Maybe I should FIRE my 25 staff and build boats in asia where i can pay my new workers $20 and a bowl of rice instead of $600-$800 p/week each . and lets not forget about the EPA requirements in Aus
for having a boat building company and the $200,000 you need to spend to make them sometimes happy, I know in asia the EPA doesn't exist.

MAYBE YOU people are right ????

Its ugly and regrettable but its the inevitable outcome of globalised markets. Tim earlier is spot on. Sharkcat you are obviously not whingeing but understandably frustrated at not being able to compete with a very low labour cost manufacturing environment. That is simply because our workers enjoy standards of pay and conditions and living that millions of third world workers cant imagine.
There will probably always be some niches for local specialised boats..like quality custom built plateys or cats..? but the volume players like Albo and Telwater should be very very worried...and then the builders of big cruisers who stand to be undercut by hundreds of thousands...? Big emerging manufacturing countries always start at the cheap product end then move north...see Japan post war as the prime example. Of course China will do the same. With the high standard of living and wages in Japan now how exposed do you reckon Yamaha and Suzuki are to a Chinese copy..? brand reputation will only protect for so long. If they attempt to manufacture there to get the production cost advantage they will find that they are pressed to do joing ventures from which they will eventually be squeezed out. The world keeps changing....bummer.

One thing that will never ever work is a few local customers paying higher prices by choice to protect a local business....that is the role of Govt through tariffs and other industry subsidies which are tariffs in disguise. A few individuals doing it is romantic but just charity in the end....wont work as an economic strategy for a business sector.
If the Chinese decide to take Telwater's customers, then only trade barriers can prevent them and they are sooooo unfashionable now as to be very very unlikely.

[trev1]

Its easy to say "spend the extra to keep an aussie business alive" but when every penny counts and you have to count every penny its bloody hard to ignore the others.

[White Pointer]

G'day,

A few points of view:

Australia is one of the most creative countries in the world. Our marine engineers design for our environment and our construction skills and trade standards are excellent. For the most part we are well supported for warranty and after-sales support by our home grown industry. Support OZ - because it's us and we live here!

The A$ has been too high for too many years. Our manufacturers have suffered because their exports were made too expensive by our currency fuelled by high commodity demand. Australia is back in the manufactured goods export market with an A$ at around $0.68. The high A$ also helped to suck in cheap exports, so that's over for a while. Back Australian manufacturing to get the country back on its feet and maybe we can avoid the world recession. We relied on our manufacturing sector to keep us alive just over 10 years ago when Russia and south American defaults and through the Asian economic crisis. Keep manufacturing alive in this country!

When times are tough people do desperate things. The world is facing a downturn that most of us have never experienced. Product "dumping" and high levels of tariff protection leave us vulnerable to some overseas markets. Let's demand a balance of trade in value added products in these difficult times. Let's not be protectionists, but let's ask something in return. When times are tough, be tough!

Finally, our American allies are broke. They can barely afford the next tank of fuel for a warship, let alone a new ship. We are on our own and we had better have the skills and resources to defend ourselves. Keep the skills at home and support our local industries. We may depend on it!

Enough!

White Pointer

[reidy]

Hi everyone,
I am a boat builder on the gold coast with my own company.

It is a shame that people are looking o/s for cheap boats , I can understand that
people have too save money in these times , but spending that little bit extra on
aus boats will save jobs and what I have heard about the asia boats is that if you have a warranty claim , forget it , as for after market help forget it too. At least with Aus boats after market help is always their.

Aus boats are dearer some of the reasons are labour costs are too high in Aus.
another is about 60% of the building materials needed to build boats comes from
o/s and with our low $ it is not good .

So to all the people out there who say that aus boat builders need to be more competitive, maybe your are right . Maybe I should FIRE my 25 staff and build boats in asia where i can pay my new workers $20 and a bowl of rice instead of $600-$800 p/week each . and lets not forget about the EPA requirements in Aus
for having a boat building company and the $200,000 you need to spend to make them sometimes happy, I know in asia the EPA doesn't exist.

MAYBE YOU people are right ????
to true
Sell out our childrens future employment(we all cant be doctors or accountants) to save a few short term bucks on a aust. made product.Nice one :-[

Cheers
Reidy

[Mindi]

G'day,

A few points of view:

Australia is one of the most creative countries in the world. Our marine engineers design for our environment and our construction skills and trade standards are excellent. For the most part we are well supported for warranty and after-sales support by our home grown industry. Support OZ - because it's us and we live here!

The A$ has been too high for too many years. Our manufacturers have suffered because their exports were made too expensive by our currency fuelled by high commodity demand. Australia is back in the manufactured goods export market with an A$ at around $0.68. The high A$ also helped to suck in cheap exports, so that's over for a while. Back Australian manufacturing to get the country back on its feet and maybe we can avoid the world recession. We relied on our manufacturing sector to keep us alive just over 10 years ago when Russia and south American defaults and through the Asian economic crisis. Keep manufacturing alive in this country!

When times are tough people do desperate things. The world is facing a downturn that most of us have never experienced. Product "dumping" and high levels of tariff protection leave us vulnerable to some overseas markets. Let's demand a balance of trade in value added products in these difficult times. Let's not be protectionists, but let's ask something in return. When times are tough, be tough!

Finally, our American allies are broke. They can barely afford the next tank of fuel for a warship, let alone a new ship. We are on our own and we had better have the skills and resources to defend ourselves. Keep the skills at home and support our local industries. We may depend on it!

Enough!

White Pointer
This is the most persuasive argument (along with benefits of current employment) for tariff protection of manufacturing industries. WW1 and WW2 were not won by guns but by factories and industrial capacity in the end. I think the intellectual appeal of free trade has sucked australian governments in to the point where we have liberalised (removed tariffs) and killed domestic production more than most western countries. Exaggerating..? name me an australian shoe manufacturer since Blundstone moved production to China last year....? ....The USA preaches free trade/low tariffs loudest but doesnt practice it...nor does the EU in general. Try and reform the chronically fragmented inefficient French agricultural sector and see the farmers riot in Paris....Farmers in Wisconsin and Normandy live off govt subsidies while their politicians preach and negotiate "free trade" agreements with dumbos who believe the rhetoric ...sorry ...a bit of a rant...I dont really think you could argue Telwater a strategic national capability...but you get my drift. I think we have been naive. Sure we shouldnt have 4 car manufacturers that is just ridiculous...but we seem to lose out in these so called liberalising free trade agreements.

[stevej]

sharkcat this is not directed at you directly but the boating industry itself
you mention the materials to build the boat are expensive cause of our low dollar

how can you say that when the dollar has been riding high why wernt those discounts handed to the custoers over the last 24 months?

the importers here of electrical items just made more money out of us, which is their right.
but they have to accept that some of us wont accpt ths and wil buy oversas at sometimes half the price.

the sounder i wanted was 335 dollars aussie i got it landed in 7 days from basspro for 198.

[Noelm]

stevej what you say is partially true, but what gets up my nose is when a guy goes to a "local" gets all the glossy brochures, drags out all the info he needs, model numbers and the like then buys on line from over seas, happens all the time, then even worse, the item arrives and he has a drama, first place you go running?? your Local to try for some sort of warranty claim, that's my beef!!!

[FNQCairns]

sharkcat this is not directed at you directly but the boating industry itself
you mention the materials to build the boat are expensive cause of our low dollar

how can you say that when the dollar has been riding high why wernt those discounts handed to the custoers over the last 24 months?

the importers here of electrical items just made more money out of us, which is their right.
but they have to accept that some of us wont accpt ths and wil buy overseas at sometimes half the price.

the sounder i wanted was 335 dollars aussie i got it landed in 7 days from basspro for 198.

This is true, first for Australian business interests to have a clear voice they need to stop with the bi-polar descriptions of where they stand.

It simply is too much guff to swallow when an Australian on holiday can walk into a retail business in the US of A, purchase a product entirely made in OZ from start to finish +shipped/handled O/S...and that product is 30% cheaper than the shelf price here in OZ...the guff will forever pale under common sense until they sort out the great number of glaring inconstancies, which for some reason never get explained without more bi-polar guff included.

cheers fnq

[Mindi]

stevej what you say is partially true, but what gets up my nose is when a guy goes to a "local" gets all the glossy brochures, drags out all the info he needs, model numbers and the like then buys on line from over seas, happens all the time, then even worse, the item arrives and he has a drama, first place you go running?? your Local to try for some sort of warranty claim, that's my beef!!!

But Noel you are not asking the local for any favours.. you are giving him business which he bills to the manufacturer. If that is not the case and his local wholesale price included an allowance for warranty repairs then he will decline the work..? He is not doing you any favours...nor should he. You are giving him service business.

[MarkDiver]

Has anyone bought one the chinese boats on ebay
Steboe
Back to your question now :P ...;D No, I haven't. I seriously don't think I would consider it due to lack of trust. I have been ripped on eBay here in Aus let alone trade o/s on eBay. If I happened to be travelling in that direction then I'd possibly go and have a look.

Buying a second-hand boat it wouldn't be an issue about aftermarket warranties or service etc., just purely on bang for my buck.

In response to the banter and opinions following your question from others trying to defend the australian boating industry, my totally unbiased consumer opinion is that I will go straight to the vendor once again giving me the best bang for my buck. I'll get what I pay for (quality wise) and I'll consider that in the price.

Isn't that what you'd do when hunting for a car? Do you have to buy Holden? :-/

[Noelm]

I guess up to a point, the quality is not the real issue, like (say) there is a lot of "Brand" names built over seas, as well as parts for a lot of high end manufacturers, the biggest drama would be buying a "no name" from a dodgey Ebay seller offering goods at very low prices, that is the case for "you get what you pay for" one issue is the true cost of a "cheap" item at your door, especialy with all sorts of exchange rates, duties, Shipping, GST, Warranties and anything else that could pop up, may make a sweet deal a tad sour!

[boatie_72]

sharkcat this is not directed at you directly but the boating industry itself
you mention the materials to build the boat are expensive cause of our low dollar

how can you say that when the dollar has been riding high why wernt those discounts handed to the custoers over the last 24 months?

the importers here of electrical items just made more money out of us, which is their right.
but they have to accept that some of us wont accpt ths and wil buy oversas at sometimes half the price.

the sounder i wanted was 335 dollars aussie i got it landed in 7 days from basspro for 198.


Not everything got cheaper with the aussie dollar, for example aluminium is controlled by the London metal exchange and as that goes up, as it was at a great rate of knots the dollar was only saving us from having a price rise due to those cost. The other item was anything that was made from an oil based (plastics, upholstery, fiberglass) product also went up. Let alone the transport surcharges of 17.5% that the companies were charging to transport the product around Australia.

What you have to keep in mind, is that all the Australian boats are hand built they are not computerized and built by robots. The going rate of a good aluminium welder that can weld light gauge alloy is around $30 + per hour plus super, workers comp etc.

Every marine company has to tread carefully at the moment. With dealers falling by the way side along with manufactures, even quintrex reports they have dropped close to 40% in sales. and for the likes of Telwater they have set up for the peak of the market and now that it has dropped they are having to be careful hence why the job cuts and trying other markets like trailers, camper trailers and shopping trolleys. (Yes shopping trolleys)

After all this market is the leisure industry, it’s the first to feel a market slow down. We are a want not a need (as much as we all think we need a boat) we try to make the best product we can for the Australian market at the right price for everyone to be happy. But with china producing boats for a bowl of rice to there employees it makes it hard.

[STUIE63]

But Noel you are not asking the local for any favours.. you are giving him business which he bills to the manufacturer. If that is not the case and his local wholesale price included an allowance for warranty repairs then he will decline the work..? He is not doing you any favours...nor should he. You are giving him service business.
Mindi I have a problem with the bit about getting all the glossy brocures and info from the local guy if people want to buy with the net then do their research on the net not your local guy because it costs him to do this service
Stuie

[Mindi]

Mindi I have a problem with the bit about getting all the glossy brocures and info from the local guy if people want to buy with the net then do their research on the net not your local guy because it costs him to do this service
Stuie

Yep Stuie I'll buy that......and even if the mfr funds brochures which I suspect they dont then a lot of research consists of wasting the dealer time asking questions when there is no intention to buy. I agree. I am not trying to paint the customer as the good guy and the dealer as bad...

My wife was an exec in the bus building business...describes how long established firms had to try and survive the latest fly by night operator who would tender and build something at a price/cost not sustainable in the long term, drag prices of tenders down, then go out of business. The long term players would then try to recover and along would come another one. She described it as a big cottage industry and I think boats are a little like that.

[MarkDiver]

..."What you have to keep in mind, is that all the Australian boats are hand built they are not computerized and built by robots."...

"But with china producing boats for a bowl of rice to there employees it makes it hard."

I find your arguement has a bit of contradiction, however my question is what is wrong with boats built by either robots or built by hard-working rice eaters? ::)

Maybe that's the key, Aussie boat builders need to eat more rice ;D joke.

[lee8sec]

If we are going to condem imports as effecting our business, should our boat builders be exporting? We are effecting some one elses back yard. Leigh

[TimiBoy]

Take a long, deep breath. Smell that? It's reality.

We will end up doing what we are good at doing economically, and so will everyone else. Everything will (should, anyway) end up cheaper. It's happening now, and will continue to happen. Y'all are tilting at windmills if you think it can be changed.

It is up to each of us to develop a strategy for how we will deal with it. If that is selling/winding up the Business before it goes broke, so be it. Don't wait around going bust while hoping for the Government to protect local manufacturing, because it won't happen.

It's harsh, but that's a jungle out there.

If we start chucking in tarriffs, see how quickly we start having trouble with our exports. The reason our Government (regardless of the Labor/Liberal) is pushing for lower barriers world wide is that on balance it is better for us as a Nation. It increases demand for our exports, because they are cheaper to buy overseas. That's critical, because without solid demand for primary produce and commodities overseas we are nothing.

Tim

[Mindi]

Take a long, deep breath. Smell that? It's reality.

We will end up doing what we are good at doing economically, and so will everyone else. Everything will (should, anyway) end up cheaper. It's happening now, and will continue to happen. Y'all are tilting at windmills if you think it can be changed.

It is up to each of us to develop a strategy for how we will deal with it. If that is selling/winding up the Business before it goes broke, so be it. Don't wait around going bust while hoping for the Government to protect local manufacturing, because it won't happen.

It's harsh, but that's a jungle out there.

If we start chucking in tarriffs, see how quickly we start having trouble with our exports. The reason our Government (regardless of the Labor/Liberal) is pushing for lower barriers world wide is that on balance it is better for us as a Nation. It increases demand for our exports, because they are cheaper to buy overseas. That's critical, because without solid demand for primary produce and commodities overseas we are nothing.

Tim


Yes Tim...agree

[White Pointer]

Take a long, deep breath. Smell that? It's reality.

We will end up doing what we are good at doing economically, and so will everyone else. Everything will (should, anyway) end up cheaper. It's happening now, and will continue to happen. Y'all are tilting at windmills if you think it can be changed.

It is up to each of us to develop a strategy for how we will deal with it. If that is selling/winding up the Business before it goes broke, so be it. Don't wait around going bust while hoping for the Government to protect local manufacturing, because it won't happen.

It's harsh, but that's a jungle out there.

If we start chucking in tarriffs, see how quickly we start having trouble with our exports. The reason our Government (regardless of the Labor/Liberal) is pushing for lower barriers world wide is that on balance it is better for us as a Nation. It increases demand for our exports, because they are cheaper to buy overseas. That's critical, because without solid demand for primary produce and commodities overseas we are nothing.

Tim

Sorry, but I can't agree. We must maintain a broad set of skills and industries so that when our commodities can't sustain us in we have other industries that can. We spent the best part of the last century depending on others. We built the best dairy industry in the world and were a major exporter only to have the EEC formed and lock us out of Europe on protectionist policies.

Post WW2 we founded our mass manufacturing industries based on high tariff barriers and have spent over 30 years unwinding it - all at taxpayers expense.

We are a niche manufacturer of technically advanced, high value products. We don't have to make millions of these products and achieve world domination. Some of our high value medical products, bio-technology and production techniques are the best exports because they make us a creative nation and that is our strength.

I am anti-protectionist but if a trading partner puts up an industry barrier to our food or manufactured goods we should ask, "what's in it for us" and trade for our own interests because nobody else will.

White Pointer

[TimiBoy]

We are a niche manufacturer of technically advanced, high value products. We don't have to make millions of these products and achieve world domination. Some of our high value medical products, bio-technology and production techniques are the best exports because they make us a creative nation and that is our strength.

I am anti-protectionist but if a trading partner puts up an industry barrier to our food or manufactured goods we should ask, "what's in it for us" and trade for our own interests because nobody else will.



Oh don't get me wrong, I agree entirely. Where companies identify a niche where they can be internationally competitive, they have a future. You have identified many of them above.

I am talking in general when I suggest many companies will go, because they will. The reality is that all companies must take control of their own destinies, find ways to remain competitive (through innovation and quality, as we cannot compete on cost).

And certainly if one of our Trading Partners doesn't play the game, we must act - but with an integrated approach. No good putting a tarrif on washing machines if it will cost us coal exports. Each case will warrant different actions...

Cheers,

Tim

[White Pointer]

G'day,

I've enjoyed this thread but it all started with a question about buying a Chinese boat.

It has now turned into a macro-economic policy debate which is not really what AUSFISH is about - but it was interesting.

Unless the Treasury want to make a post and seek our "professional" advice I suggest we get back to Chinese boats!

Thanks,

White Pointer

[Moonlighter]

I agree - all that macro economic stuff was bringing back bad memories of late night lectures at QIT (not QUT, you'll notice - showing my age ... bu**er!!).

Speaking of siad Chinese Boats, I had a look and can't find chinese alloy boats on e-bay anywhere : does anyone have a link so we can at least have a look at what we are talking about here??

Thanks

Grant

[Mindi]

G'day,

I've enjoyed this thread but it all started with a question about buying a Chinese boat.

It has now turned into a macro-economic policy debate which is not really what AUSFISH is about - but it was interesting.

Unless the Treasury want to make a post and seek our "professional" advice I suggest we get back to Chinese boats!

Thanks,

White Pointer

Yeah sorry about that....I guess we just often see the "buy off the local bloke" point and are sucked into pointing out the implications of that....more macro boating sounds good.

[TimiBoy]

Reidy started it!!!;D;D;D;D

Tim

[Steboe]

http://www.seaxchange.com.au/

[reidy]

Reidy started it!!!;D;D;D;D

Tim
Yes that is true
sorry all :P
Cheers
Reidy
Only protecting my childrens future:'(

[Taroona]

Yes that is true
sorry all :P
Cheers
Reidy
Only protecting my childrens future:'(

If you want to protect your childrens future don't let Gunns cut the forests down

[nigelr]

If you want to protect your childrens future don't let Gunns cut the forests down
"?"
Seriously, "Please explain?"

[GBC]

Gunns - Tassie timber mob

Hey Sea king do a galvanised aluminium boat - there's a first.

Their prices don't look too cheap either.

[datamile]

Buy anything you like

http://www.made-in-china.com/

[reidy]

If you want to protect your childrens future don't let Gunns cut the forests down
That monster will be in my backyard if its built (5 km)(which i feel it won't)
Will only create around 30 new jobs rest will come from other gunns companys.
This one is an environmental monster in the making>:( .My company has been in neg. with gunns for over two years re gas supply and have come to the conclusion that its a white elephant and will not get off the ground.Gunns retail is suffering as more and more boycott there businesses in protest,local councils are attempting to block pipe lines ect. the ball is rolling.Jobs are one thing the enviromental condition of my back yard is another.
Cheers all
Reidy

[Mindi]

Gunns - Tassie timber mob

Hey Sea king do a galvanised aluminium boat - there's a first.

Their prices don't look too cheap either.


Ummm I dont think so..if it was somehow coated in an electrolytic process it would be anodised..? and I aint going fishing in no mug from a picnic set...!...but why would you do that anyway

[Mindi]

http://www.seaxchange.com.au/

wouldbe interesting to do a proper compare but their 4m basic tinnie hull is $2800 and at Cunnighams you can get a 4M Allycraft, 30HP 4 Stroke Suzuki, and Sealink trailer for $7200....so I am not sure that a base hull price of $2800 is going to scare australian manufacturers ..?

[Steboe]

Cunningham sell the 4m allycraft for $1,970, i don't think many people will pay more for a chinese boat

Ken

[Mindi]

Yeah well there you go...and I am betting the Allycraft is better than the import so who knows what the deal is..?...maybe I read the price wrongly

[O SEA D]

Heard a rumor that Sportfish are moving their boat building operation to China.

[mr_boats]

Go check out these this link on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/4m-PARSUN-Aluminium-Boat-15hp-PARSUN-Outboard-package_W0QQitemZ150305480100QQcmdZViewItem?hash=i tem150305480100&_trkparms=39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A1%7C240%3A1308&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

[boatie_72]

you can buy a Australian Manufactured 4.15 with 3mm bottoms, achorwell, floor, rails and step with 30hp suzuki and trailer, rego. For like $6990 and at least you know you have 3 year boat and trailer warranty and dealer back up.

[FNQCairns]

you can buy a Australian Manufactured 4.15 with 3mm bottoms, achorwell, floor, rails and step with 30hp suzuki and trailer, rego. For like $6990 and at least you know you have 3 year boat and trailer warranty and dealer back up.

Yeah absolutely, silly to buy one the Chinese boats at the price they ask, although different Hyundai undercut to gain a name and market share for their product.

cheers fnq

[foxx510]

Yeah that Parsun package is hardly good value. I'd be embarrassed to pull up at the ramp with it too.

[mr_boats]

I've seen heaps of them around down here.

[Charlie]

I hear what the Qlders are saying however no way could you strike a deal where an Allycraft shipped from QLD to Sydney would be cheaper than a chinese boat landed in Sydney and sold twenty percent off at the boatshow. Like it or not those guys will sell a few boats down south once people catch on.

[bigfella23]

I can see both sides of the coin, it is tempting to look at O/S for cheaper quality, however who hires our kids? Maybe we can send them to China to get trained ?
Keep it in Australia, When you get a great boat , have good resale value ect , price is soon forgotten.;D
Bigfella

[PinHead]

I can see both sides of the coin, it is tempting to look at O/S for cheaper quality, however who hires our kids? Maybe we can send them to China to get trained ?
Keep it in Australia, When you get a great boat , have good resale value ect , price is soon forgotten.;D
Bigfella

a lot of the O/S manufactured boats make the local ones look like overpriced rip-off..and some of them are. Taiwan and USA build some great boats at reasonable prices.

[foxx510]

Yeah the stuff coming out of the Telwater factory isn't that wonderful in my opinion, going on the stuff we looked at.

[lee8sec]

Dont need to go all the way to China. Leigh
http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=140764

[nigelr]

1.6 mm bottom, wouldn't want to crash that Parsun!

[reidy]

I can see both sides of the coin, it is tempting to look at O/S for cheaper quality, however who hires our kids? Maybe we can send them to China to get trained ?
Keep it in Australia, When you get a great boat , have good resale value ect , price is soon forgotten.;D
Bigfella
To true Bigfella.Give our kids a future
Cheers
Reidy

[reidy]

This is the most persuasive argument (along with benefits of current employment) for tariff protection of manufacturing industries. WW1 and WW2 were not won by guns but by factories and industrial capacity in the end. I think the intellectual appeal of free trade has sucked australian governments in to the point where we have liberalised (removed tariffs) and killed domestic production more than most western countries. Exaggerating..? name me an australian shoe manufacturer since Blundstone moved production to China last year....? ....The USA preaches free trade/low tariffs loudest but doesnt practice it...nor does the EU in general. Try and reform the chronically fragmented inefficient French agricultural sector and see the farmers riot in Paris....Farmers in Wisconsin and Normandy live off govt subsidies while their politicians preach and negotiate "free trade" agreements with dumbos who believe the rhetoric ...sorry ...a bit of a rant...I dont really think you could argue Telwater a strategic national capability...but you get my drift. I think we have been naive. Sure we shouldnt have 4 car manufacturers that is just ridiculous...but we seem to lose out in these so called liberalising free trade agreements.
Someone else see's the big picture.
Every product we buy off the Chineese we help build the monster.
Cheers
Reidy

[mr_boats]

Looks like the monster isn't that strong now.

[TimiBoy]

Give it a couple of years, they will be back.

Maybe less...

Cheers,

Tim

[backlash08]

Give it a couple of years, they will be back.

Maybe less...

Cheers,

Tim

sooner than we may think Tim...........or want

[PinHead]

the "monster" has not weakened..they are just biding their time..they are cashed up to the hilt..and at the end of all this it will be interesting to see just how many companies they own.

[TimiBoy]

the "monster" has not weakened..they are just biding their time..they are cashed up to the hilt..and at the end of all this it will be interesting to see just how many companies they own.

Yup. Comalco's on the way. They will still grow at 7% or so this year.

Cheers,

Tim

[FNQCairns]

China? don't they own Rio Tinto:o:o:-X I still am having trouble understanding how any government (let alone a communist one) can own a controlling stake in another country's business...an engineering firm, retail or courier company I can understand but a sovereign primary commodity:-/ for the want of a better description, I have trouble swallowing

cheers fnq

[PinHead]

that is easy Scott..the Govt has the shares..not private enterprise..their way of keeping the communist doctrine intact.

I read an article about 10 years back from the Chinese Premier..he stated that China could take control by military force if they wanted to..and I don't doubt that..but he said that China would much prefer to live in peace and be the world's primary economic leader..I am not doubting that now either. They have some pretty smart ideas on the manufacturing front. The European car manufacturer's are loving their system.

[FNQCairns]

Yeah, they hold a smart but untested ethos, I wonder if the US would allow say a controlling stake in a big oil field company.

Cheers fnq

[White Pointer]

G'day,

An old thread come to life!

It doesn't matter if it's Germany or Japan emerging from loosing WW2 and using OUR taxpayers $ to rebuild or new economies emerging from the yoke of communism to enter the free world.

What is important is that the world is free, that labour is paid for at a living wage with benefits and retirement managed and that people have recourse to a justice system, with or without unions or organised labour. We are only people. We invented currency and financial systems and politics is a state of mind.

If you don't think Chinese workers (or German, Japanese, or anywhere else) get a fair go, don't spend you money there.

Cheap or fair? It's a choice.

White Pointer

[Moonlighter]

It was on the news tonight that Rio Tinto shares have been temporarily suspended from trading because they are in talks with the chinese company that's now doing the bauxite mining up north - Chamalco I think the name is.....

Maybe a takeover or buy out or something similar.

Unbelievable.

ML

[FNQCairns]

Moonlighter here it is below, I was a bit gobsmacked at our laws if they allowed this, hopefully out government is too!

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/china-puts-19-bln-us-dollars-into-rio-tinto-20090212-85w8.html

cheers fnq