Brand new motor...dud!

[ANGLERnotDANGLER]

just thought id let you guys in on what has happened to me last weekend...

after having problems with a couple of motors on my tinny, a couple of tows and a 1hr rowing session, i decided to go all out and buy a brand spankin new motor.
went for a 15hp mercury. whacked it on and couldnt wait to get out there and see how it went.
got on the water and got going, everything seemed fine. taking it easy at first and slowly increasing revs. got about 300m from the boat ramp and just about up on plane at 3/4 throttle and the motor cut out!! 'this cant be happening' i thought. Oh but it was! motor kicked over again and yet again it cut out before it got onto plane. it done this a few times before i gave it a rest and had a fish. started it up and again same thing. managed to get back to the ramp just by putting along but was very disappointed. this is the reason i bought a brand new motor! so i dont have this problem.

dropped it into the place where i got it straight away. apparently the top cylinder has seized. they dont know how but they have sent photos to Mercury and i am waiting to see what they say. But i pretty much wont settle for less than a new motor! i didnt pay 2 grand for a repaired motor!

[fish-n-dive]

Now think back real hard...........did you recently run over a Chinaman??? ;););)

[ANGLERnotDANGLER]

dont worry ive been racking my brain for it!

[FNQCairns]

Does sound like a dud, pistons are individually fitted into the cylinders by people who measure each and choose the one that has the closest fit to the clearance spec.

Sounds like you got a poorly matched piston inserted into that cylinder and are experiencing a cold sieze.

No easy fix for it if I am right, new power head, for what they are actually worth to the manufacturer sounds the go.

cheers fnq

[whatscracken]

Thats some terrible luck angler, it should have been a no brainer for them if they reckon a cylinder had seized and given you a brand new one.

Good Luck mate

Chris

[Waraba Mick]

In 2002 paid $6400 for that brand, crapped itself straight up and got a repaired motor back, mate read the warranty fine print this is where the devil is.

[mangomick]

some blokes just arent meant to own machinery ;D

[dreemon]

I've got a mate with the same engine and new, it wont go over 6 knots and he has brought it back to the dealer 3 times now :P what a bummer !

[chop duster]

Post a question about your issue on thehulltruth (american forum). I'm sure someone will come up with your answers. This forum is by far my favourite, although for technical issues such as these, the huge number of users help.

Good luck.

[Noelm]

nah, forget the hulltruth, that is just for know it alls, far better off on Iboats.com in the Merc section.

[Peter4]

went for a 15hp mercury.

I think I can see the problem.................;)

[trev1]

Those little mercs are rebadged Tohatsus and they have legendary reliability. Did you use the same fuel tank/fuel for both motors (old and new). Both motors , you indicate, done the same thing , one old and one new. So apart from the chance you did get a dud, what else is the same for both motors?
I'm not trying to "protect the brand" or anything as such but remember if Mercury finds its something outside of warranty conditions, you can be made liable to pay costs.

[ANGLERnotDANGLER]

ok so heard back from the dealer today. mercury are going to replace the power head. which from what i told is pretty much a new motor. problem is, they cant give a date on when the power head can be delivered, which makes the dealer think that there isnt one in the country. he said the last one they replaced took 6 weeks to arrive!! so very disappointed!

to make things worse im having an operation on my hand in 3 weeks to repair some tendons i damaged in a run in with a dropsaw 3 months ago. i may be out of action anywhere from 1 week to 3 months again!! so ill have my boat sitting there all pimped out and eventually a new motor with the fish finally biting and cant do a thing about it!! I must have been an evil f***er in a past life cause i cant shake this damn hoodoo!! lol

trev1 - brand new tank came with the motor, with the dealership pre loading with oil. nothing came from the old motor

[foxx510]

I think you have every right to ask for your money back in this situation, if that is what you want to do(I know I would). Talk to the fair trading people in your state, they will explain your rights.

[ozbee]

top cyclinder going first usually means lean mixture or lack of lubricant

[lee8sec]

Iwould be speaking to fair trading in regard to full replacement or full cash refund. Leigh

[disorderly]

problem is, they cant give a date on when the power head can be delivered, which makes the dealer think that there isnt one in the country. he said the last one they replaced took 6 weeks to arrive!! so very disappointed!



In light of this ,I would be asking the dealer to grow a set of balls and get authorization to whack a new motor(all of about 2 grand retail,right??) on your boat and get you doing what you paid them for ....

[4x4frog]

i'd be pushing for anew motor. Give Consumer affairs a call. You only used the engine for amatter of minutes and it died. It was still new and carked it. Like you said, you shouldn't settle for a repaired engine for that money.
If they won't come to the party, ask for a full refund and get something else.

[T1]

AND, i read your thread with interest.... Check out my thread re the problems with my new Merc:

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=138997

I spoke with my legal eagle and it appears (without reading the Warranty fineprint) that they don't have to refund your money but can be obligated to replace the motor... It is an ethical issue that you need to raise as i'm sure they don't want the bad publicity that would go with someone and their child being stranded at sea with a new donk...

Good luck but i'd be asking for another, as i did after several unsuccessful fix attempts...

Take Care T

[4x4frog]

Wasn't there some sort of 'lemon' law brought in for cars where if they attempt to fix a crap new car and fail 3 times you get a new replacement by law.
I also wonder what the law states in the US for this type of thing. Might be worth investigating. Also, I know how much everybody hates A Current Today Affair Tonight but they would be all over a stroy like this, especially if there's more than 1 case of unreliable new motors.

[ANGLERnotDANGLER]

well the dealer said that they put twice the oil in the new fuel tank before they give it to me so they know that its in there

[White Pointer]

It all sounds a bit rough to me. A new motor doesn't not sieze a piston 300m from shore if it has been predelivered. It would have shown up in the dealer's testing tank. The dealer has not delivered goods to you that meet the sale specification. It is not warranty - it's a breach of contract.

Is the power head coming from Mercury re-manufacturing in the USA? If so, it is not new. Tell them to keep their motor that never worked and to give you your money back, then find a dealer who pre-delivers engines.

White Pointer

[cormorant]

If you paid by credit card ( gold or AMEX) many cover warranty issues . Possibly have credit card payment reversed after taking advice.

Bottom line a new powerhead is not a new motor. It will have same carby ( which may have been the prob) and same shop that couldn't get it right the first time.

To transfer the electricals and all the other things over means that many stud heads will become corrosion points and I hate to say this but dealers unlike factories don't use tension wrenches on bolts so there is a big chance of thread damage. Exposed bolt heads lead to corrosion. Resale, due to gasket goop and repainted bolts you motors second hand value just halved as no one wants a motor that has had work.

Do all you can to pressure the dealer to get a complete new motor.

A reasonable dealer would do this for you anyway as he will get screwed by Factory on "book hours"for removal and refit of new powerhead let alone his diagnosis time. will take them 5 hours plus then fresh predelivery, tune and tank run and merc will probably only pay them 3.5hrs. They can hardly take their time and do a propper job if you see what I mean.

Phone Mercury Aust and get a straight answer in writing if your dealer can't solve it for you to get a new motor. nGet everything in writing and diarise all talks and phone conversations.

Can't get much simpler - I bought a new motor. It didn't work. Please supply new motor that works now. I need it now. If you can't supply I wan't my cash. Please show me a contract in writing that says I can't have my cash? Can't be much more reasonable than that.

The correct wording is "goods not fit for purpose". Did you buy an anchor or a motor?

Honestly can't believe a big company would still try and mess people around like this and your dealer is a pussy - fully stop.

Corm

[DR]

i would talk to consumer affairs as well. Every christmas they do the 'no refunds' thing. One of the reasons that they have to, by law, give a refund is if the item does not do what it is supposed to do, in this case,work...then i doubt any fine print by manufacturer would be useless..worth a phone call. I would not want a 'repaired' motor that is only minutes old.

[aussiebasser]

top cyclinder going first usually means lean mixture or lack of lubricant

Which could be caused by not openning the fuel tank vent.

[oldboot]

There is a known science of waranty failures and it is the same regardless of product.

The greater number of failures occur close to the time of purchase with diminishing valid claims as the product ages.

There will be a number of OOB failures ( out of box ) or DOA s .... generaly the failure rate will peak at some point after this the the numbers will deminish.
This is the principle that makes selling extended warranties so profitable.

The longer a product lasts in use after purchase the less it is likely to have a waranty claim...... so if a product lasts tha standard 12 month warranty......the liklihood of a valid waramty claim after that is very low.

why am i posting this.
Because veery service manager in the works knows this and expects a certain number of OOB failures.....you can guarantee someone will even have statistics on the falure rates.

Understanding this should give you greater confidence in negocation.

Regardless of the waranty terms I would be applying preasure to the dealer....yes I would be speaking to consumer affairs.
Yes I would mention that you have discussed thios on a buliten board and wee all thaught you should get a new one.

Do not let the grass grow under your feet with this.... act now and get on the front foot.
I certainly do not accept OOB failures from my suppliers.

remember no hide ... no christmass box.

cheers

[cormorant]

quote

The greater number of failures occur close to the time of purchase with diminishing valid claims as the product ages.

Hi Oldboot your correct

Statistics are statistics and the only numbers you ever see are accepted warranty valid claims. Hence more time since purhase means more chance it can be partialy attributed to or fully attributed to actions of user. Law of diminishing warranty where blame can be passed on and also motivation of buyer to claim past first rejection is diminished. The JD powers survey in the USA when it started stunned everyone as the consumers didn't lie like the manufacturers so real warranty numbers and minor breakdown numbers were collated. Honda did well for years with cars simply as they had better quality control and manufactured without all those rattles that everyone expected in a car back then.

You have realy gotta wonder why Merc are dragging their feet on this one and why the dealer is such a whimp. Merc will have to supply a new powerhead - lets say $800 and will get harged by dealer $500 plus for removal and replacement. The bill is already $1300. Better to go new motor and just pre-deliver it as fitting will be fast as.

The real stupidity by the agent in Aus or Merc is that to save a mere $200 in airfreight they are pissing off a client and wasteing 6 weeks of his time.

There used to be a huge risk with 2 strokes and small motors of seizure in the first few hours due to increased running temps as things bed in but seriously machining tollerances are so good no along with oil quality failure should be pretty rare. If I was Merc i'd want the motor complete so i could 100% check what failed be it a physical piece of metal, thermostat , fuel starvatio , ignition timing etc in case I had a production fault. Of all the failures I have seen in cars , bikes , some trucks and marine most would have been human error in set up that should have been picked up by someone on predelivery and setup. Others have of course been bad design, part failure and user error.


Hope you get a new motor and fast but as oldboot says don't delay - get onto it as they will play the same bat now or in 2 weeks time.


Do a search for "not good enough.org I think "as they are a group who does the phone call to head office for you in these type of cases and get a good response as they know consumer law and have heard all the excuses before and know how persistant to be wih the right person who can actually make a decision

[Local_Guy]

i own a Merc and was told to follow the strict run in procedures with a new engine so everything beds in properly.
5 mins and a slow idle, followed by 1 hour of 1/4 revs. 2nd hour at upto 1/2 revs, 3rd hr to 3/4 revs. after this to 10hours 3/4 power with full power every 1/2hr for 30secs.

to me it sounds like you went out and thrashed the engine before it could get properly lubricated and hence siezed the engine.

i think the manufacturer is doing you a favour and getting this fixed at their cost when in their rights if they take the above into consideration they could have told u it was your fault.

i'm not putting the blame on you, but giving you another side of the story that may or may not be true in regards to how the engine was run from the information you have given in your first post.

[FNQCairns]

i own a Merc and was told to follow the strict run in procedures with a new engine so everything beds in properly.
5 mins and a slow idle, followed by 1 hour of 1/4 revs. 2nd hour at upto 1/2 revs, 3rd hr to 3/4 revs. after this to 10hours 3/4 power with full power every 1/2hr for 30secs.

to me it sounds like you went out and thrashed the engine before it could get properly lubricated and hence siezed the engine.

i think the manufacturer is doing you a favour and getting this fixed at their cost when in their rights if they take the above into consideration they could have told u it was your fault.

i'm not putting the blame on you, but giving you another side of the story that may or may not be true in regards to how the engine was run from the information you have given in your first post.

Nup no way! it was a cold seize, this happens for a reason and it would have happened every time he got up on the plane and/or it would have snagged a ring the first time it was forced to lug for any reason.

Run in only has true benefit in a healthy engine not one that has 1 (or more) oversized pistons fitted in a cylinder.

Poor QC or a bloke just put on the equivalent of an AWA, selling a little of his experience and labour value back to the company;D

cheers fnq

[oldboot]

One realy needs to ask if the motor was tank tested at the dealer before it was handed over.

Personaly If I was selling outboards, I would want to see the motor run for at least 30 minutes in the tank befor I handed it over.

but I'm old fashoned......I wont walk into a customers premises with electronics that I have not run in the workshop.

cheers

[White Pointer]

FNQCairns,

Let us know how you get on with this.

Mercury have offered a 5-year extended warranty to keep buyers loyal to dealer servicing and to enhance brand reputation and compete. If you accept what your dealer has offered you finish up with a reconditioned 2nd hand power head. It's not good enough for nearly everyone who has posted here.

I am really concerned about the dealer's response. If you go with them again, attend the pre-delivery and tank run. One hour should do for first run-in period. Offer to do the throttle control - that will test them!

White Pointer

[garman1]

All you can be sure of is that there was no pre-delivery tank testing done!!!!

I reckon your motor never had engine time on it till you started it.

Go a new one................................... and watch em start the sucker up and run it

[lee8sec]

Any updates on whats happening? Leigh

[ANGLERnotDANGLER]

hey guys havent been on for a few days

i picked the motor up today. mercury sent a new power head out alot quicker than expected. I didnt ask them about the tank test as i only just read the post. but i know the motor still had water running out of it when i collected it.

havent had a chance to kick it over myself yet but i will tomorrow. and give it a run on the weekend. fingers crossed

[ANGLERnotDANGLER]

ok so i just read the rest of your posts. wish i had read them all earlier this week.
the guy rang me yesterday and said its ready to pick up so i just jumped on it.

might still speak to someone about it and see what can be done

thanks for all the advice anyway guys

[lee8sec]

Atleast it was new & done quickly. Hope it all works out. Leigh

[cormorant]

Sounds like they actually started this one unlike the previous one. Just checking their own work and gasket seals. Probably only started it to check the idle - sorry I'm a cynic. I'd be tipping that tank of fuel in case that was a contributing cause and getting them to fill it up and watch them put oil in and mix it up. Man what is this world coming to when I just don't trust anyone to touch my motors or fuel system. Might have to get a system like Mad Max and have a self destruct.

Hope that it is now trouble free so get out there and use it so if there is any problems you can get them looked at straight away. Check under the cowl after the first run and make sure there is no fuel or oil and that all electrics are safely routed out of the way of any moving parts. Biggest shortcut lazy mechanics do is not route all the electrics as they were originally and not replace all the zip ties etc.

Good luck - go catch some fish

[4x4frog]

good to see they were able to do something.
Personally, I'd not use the engine at all, call consumer affairs and see if there is any chance of having them replace the engine witha new one out of the box, and let you see it run in while you are there. Like many here, I'd try to not settle for the s/h repaired unit you have now. Sure, it has anew power head but how much care was taken fixing it. What if now it runs for 50 hours say then strands you out in the middle of the bay? It will be your problem as they will surely say you messed up.
Good luck in the meantime.

[wilcara]

Agree with everyone here but....

I could be wrong here but my understanding is that by the letter of the law, the retailler is only obliged to make good any defects or repairs on the product? I don't think there is any OBLIGATION to replace a defective product with a new one? Probably especially if he has repaired the old one. (In his view)

Does anybody know?

[ANGLERnotDANGLER]

ok more updates

firstly i got a call from the office of fair trading in reply to an enquiry i made online. the manufacturer is not obligated to replace the motor with a new one unless it is unrepairable or the cost would be cheaper to replace it. so theres not much i can do about that

ok so shortly after the guy from fair trading called i strolled out the back to start the motor. damn thing wont even kick over!!! the breather on the fuel tank was wide open, the fuel line was primed and the choke was out. im pretty sure it should at least start!! now im pissed! im goin in there tomorrow and giving them the motor and telling them i dont want that one back. its either a new motor or my money back. and if it is a new motor ill tell them i want to see it run in. im so over all this crap. now my long weekend plans of fishing all weekend have been shot down the drain.

its just not acceptable!