Boats in electrical storms

[Jigs Down]

Up here in Darwin we have a lot of storms come through every wet season.
Which boat would you be safer in for lightning, a plate boat or a glass boat?

[sparkyice]

i tend to pull anchor and go like mad to shore!

i've been out fishing when a storm was approaching, and had my line, when i made a cast, peel off straight up into the heavens- 1-oz jig be damned, if i didn't click my bail shut it would've spooled me. this happens with some regularity.
kind of an eerie feeling!

anybody else ever experience this?

i don't know what type of boat would be safer, maybe the coast guard or navy has some data on that. i don't know of anybody that ever got hit by lightning while in a boat, i can only imagine that it would be quite exilerating

[bustaonenut]

good one sparkyice, i think u need some sleep mate :P

[TimiBoy]

Sparky hooked an Angel!

Tim

[Noelm]

the line lifting off the Water like that is a very bad Omen, there is the very real danger of a full on direct hit, now as far as what is safer, I guess there is a remote possibility that Alloy may disperse the strike better to the Water, there is indeed a thousand articals about this, just do a Google, strangely enough, Boats do not get hit all that much (well small Boats that is) large ships do, and have preventative measures to minimise damage, I guess if you had a direct hit in a small Boat, the type of construction would be the least of your worries, anyone who has witnessed a close strike would attest to this!

[Jigs Down]

There was a guy up here some years back that was struck on the top of his head and killed by lightning whilst motoring on the Adelaide river. The other people in the boat were OK I believe including his son. Terrible tragedy.

[coucho]

I Have been on a steel trawler when it got struck scares the sheet out of you!!! it wiped out all of the electronics but apart from new undies required and ears ringing for a while no harm done to either of us. I rather be on a metal boat with an overhead metal structure electrically attached to the hull it would work like a lightning spire in an electrical substation.
A couple of years ago I attended a lightning protection seminar delivered buy a professor who has pretty well devoted his life to researching lighting and ways to protect power systems from its effect. he had photos of himself sitting within a metal tube structure while it was hit with an arc from a electrical pulse generator created to simulate lighnting. He was sittin up in the middle smiling while the arc raged on around him. Brilliant man but thats one hell of a way to prove your point.

[Outsider1]

A video clip from Top Gear showing a car (with passenger, Richard Hammond) getting hit by very high voltage (lightning simulation);

ve6XGKZxYxA

[moater]

I've got a newspaper article somewhere around about a couple that were out on a local estuary here in Victoria.Lightning hit a metal rod holder on their 15 or so feet (fibreglass I believe) boat.It blew the outboard cowling clean off,zapped the people a bit and did some other damage.

!:o

Darren

I'll see if I can find the article

[nigelr]

Heart attack material, I'd reckon, wouldn't do ones' pacemaker much good either!
Sure would scare the s#(t out of me..............at worse!
Time for me to come ashore when the bolts start flyin'.

[peterbo3]

Google "Faradays Cage". A metal boat with a metal cab or metal canopy frame is the place to be in a lightning storm. An open tinny............................not good.

[coucho]

Google "Faradays Cage". A metal boat with a metal cab or metal canopy frame is the place to be in a lightning storm. An open tinny............................not good.
Just don't be holding the canopy frame or be touching the cab as if your standing on something electrically connected to earth you are offering current an alternate path to earth and you will get fried!!

[jimbo59]

A bloke was found dead in a tinny in nudgee creek after a bolt of lightning struck him.

[wilcara]

Medium rare or well done?

[coucho]

wilcara not so sure i would be worried just how cooked i was might save on cooking time at the crematorium though

[northernblue]

There was a guy up here some years back that was struck on the top of his head and killed by lightning whilst motoring on the Adelaide river. The other people in the boat were OK I believe including his son. Terrible tragedy.


Alf was one of the good ones, RIP.

Someone said if they see lightning they head for home, up in Darwin you wouldn't get to launch your boat [or play golf].

I've been in some nasty storms in an open platey, I've always left the canopy up [half arsed Farraday cage] and layed the rods down on the floor and squatted on the floor [the idea being to keep low but to have minimal contact with the hull]

It worked for me.....

[Mindi]

i tend to pull anchor and go like mad to shore!

i've been out fishing when a storm was approaching, and had my line, when i made a cast, peel off straight up into the heavens- 1-oz jig be damned, if i didn't click my bail shut it would've spooled me. this happens with some regularity.
kind of an eerie feeling!

anybody else ever experience this?

i don't know what type of boat would be safer, maybe the coast guard or navy has some data on that. i don't know of anybody that ever got hit by lightning while in a boat, i can only imagine that it would be quite exilerating


I wouldnt have been a happy camper...was fishing with a graphite rod in westernport bay once during thundery storm and the rod started buzzing when I lifted it over my head...i put it down on the floor and there it stayed while I went home..asap. Bloody scary actually.

Original good question...whats the answer..?

[jimbo59]

Poly owners head off when the tinnys are running scared:D

[TheRealAndy]

Poly owners head off when the tinnys are running scared:D

I dont know about that, if I see sparks in the sky its full throttle home no matter what!!!!


I did go to a presentation on lighting for yachties a many years ago. The go doing the presentation said lighting might strike the water 20cm from you boat or might strike your boat. When you that close to the water it does not matter, it will strike whereever, not the highest point.

[fish-n-dive]

I cant comment re hull material but I have been told to down rods in an electrical storm at Shady Camp NT. Apparently, they can act as lighting rods!!!!!!!!!:o:o:o

[weasel]

was working on an 84ft steel boat 1986 just did a tuna survey in the coral sea for dpi anyway on way back from cairns gearbox siezed of gladstone getting towed intogladstone big storm hit while picking up anchor behind tug lightning hit forestay next to two of us directing tug which way anchor was laying and knocked us over but that was it scary but

dave

[tunaticer]

I have seen a graphite rod about 10' planted in a rod holder on the beach in Apollo Bay get hit by lightning about 8 yrs ago. Nuttin worth recovering from that bolt.
I guess a boat would have similar results with mega volts hitting like a semi trailer.

I am sure as hell not going to volunteer for any research statistics no matter where the location may be.

Jack.

[coucho]

tuna ticer its not that bad with metal when it gets struck if its earthed well due to the low resistance and short duration of a lightning strike it doesn't do a lot of damage. You will get a weld mark but generally not much worse then that.
the reason the graphite rod disitnergrated is due to it having a fair amount of resistance which causes power to dissipate through the rod rather then at the resistive points. I have seen brand new 50 foot power poles blown apart with 20 foot splitters wieghing better then 100 kg blown 50 meters from where they where struck and i have seen that more then once. Its a phenominal act of nature

[Poodroo]

I think I would tempt fate a little too much to be out in any boat during a thunder storm armed with a pflueger graphite fast action plastic rod. Id be heading to sure real fast at the first hint of a storm developing I think regardless if it were plate or glass.

Poodroo

[frank100]

The best boat to be in is one that's parked in a well built shed !
The the other option is to hold up a #1 iron, apparently even god can't hit a 1 iron.
Seriously the best / safest is neither! The steel/Ally hull will conduct the strike BUT before the strike what is happenning is the charge between the water & the sky is building in strength, the strike will happen when the charge is big enough to ionise the air, this will probable happen at a point where the charge is concentrated (ie a sharp point or a persons hair end is another example)the higher the more likely. So on a steel/Ally boat you or the boat will initate the strike and conduct the elecrical flow. If it's you your probably dead.
The difference with a fibre glass boat is that there is'nt a difference. It's just that if the charge stress point is in glass, the electricity will try to flow through the glass resulting in it exploding/ burning (yes it will let some current flow, most things will at the voltages associated with lightning). That's why trees explode, rods propped up in the sand disappear etc. I have even seen glass formed in the sand where a power cable was buried, ligthning hit , no cable, about 10cms of glass about 3mil thick.

Frank

[coucho]

frank what your saying is correct however if you have a metal "overhead" portion on your metal boat safest place is right under it but not touching it because with it above you the charge will rise from there and not you that is a proven fact, and the reason transmission overhead powerlines have wires above them that do nothing but sit there electrically connected to earth to protect the actuall current carrying conductors from lightning.
fibreglass on the other hand is slightly less likey to be struck in the first place due to its higher resistance but only slightly and again i would like to be under some steal work if the boat was struck.

[frank100]

coucho,
Yes that's why I suggested a boat parked inside a shed, or holding up a one iron. That will give metal overhead (LOL) but I would'nt rely on it the one iron I mean.
Yep quite right overhead powerlines can have a earth wire above them for lightning protection. From memory though (Years & years ago) that is 99% protection that leaves 1% of hits ! in Darwin that's a significant number. (Most of Darwin distribution system was undergrounded after Tracy - again from memory have'nt been there for over 20yrs)

Frank

[coucho]

Frank mate you and gods one iron are on to it again!! the 99 % though is a variable it depends apon the hieght above ground and the angle formed between the over head earth wire and the phase conductors. you can almost make a powerline lightning proof but never totally. Of course that comes at a cost and generally its a trade off between desidered reliablity, what they call the amount of lightning days, the required secuirity of the powerline and dollars other factors are in there as well such as earth resistance, pole material and an insulator property called brakedown insulation level or BIL.
Have you been involved in the industry frank you seem to have more of a grasp of it then most?

[frank100]

coucho,
Yes was in 'the industry' in a former life. "we " (the people I used to work for) did their own thing in both HV & LV distribution & some generation (LV) so did some work associated with lightning protection (actually in Darwin in fact).

Frank

[Noelm]

I think that is what I sort of said way back, the type of Material used in construction will be a little difference, a direct strike is a direct strike, if it is on your body, then your probably cooked (not always) being in a glass/poly/tin/steel/concrete/wood whatever Boat does not matter too much, if the Boat is big enough to go inside, then do it, if not try to minimise the chance of you getting zapped by not standing up (say) on the flybridge with a rod or something silly like that, if your in an open Boat, then try to keep low and go, go, go (if practical)

[Jigs Down]

Very interesting. Thanks for all the replies.
So as said, a direct hit is going to be bad in any boat but what about a very close hit. Somewhere in the water by the boat. Surely it would be best in a non conducting boat for this?
There was a lightning strike on a soccer field a little while ago I saw on TV, where the bolt hit the ground and it zapped a whole bunch of players probably because of all the water on the field.
Some people have said head for shore, but up here in the NT we regularly fish a long way from anywhere. The best you can do is get up a creek if your close enough and next to the mangroves but then again Ive also heard that the worse place to be in a storm in under a tree.
As said earlier the fact is that if you fish in the wet season up here eventually you get caught in a storm that scares the **** out of you.

Cheers

[shags101]

carbon fibre rods in a rocket launcher would have to be a dead set lightning rod in any boat

[frank100]

M8,
I think that in the case of a very close hit you would be safer in the glass boat. The worry would be any metal bits (handrails,seat frames,radio aerial etc) could have an induced voltage from the strike, it is feasible to get an electric shock if your are in contact with the metal so that there is a voltage difference across your body. For instance hanging onto a handrail with wet feet on wet carpet,if the voltage difference is large enough you would get a current flow from hand through the body & out the feet. My opion is that this would be possible but unlikely in a glass boat, but very likely in an ally one.
The soccer field scenerio is more likey the current being dissipated (flowing)through the ground causing a voltage drop across the ground, ie an electric shock from the voltage difference between your right & left foot. This is apparently what kills cows ! Given the right conditions the current can travel a considerable distance (mineral content of soil).
I was tickled once while closing a steel gate, the lightning strike was over a mile away! (current travelling along the wire fence, even though there was a star picket every 3metres or so) BTW it was in Darwin

If I was out in a boat and saw lighting getting close I'd be heading for home or at least away from it, rods laying down & crapping myself.

Frank

[moater]

I've got a newspaper article somewhere around about a couple that were out on a local estuary here in Victoria.Lightning hit a metal rod holder on their 15 or so feet (fibreglass I believe) boat.It blew the outboard cowling clean off,zapped the people a bit and did some other damage.

!:o

Darren

I'll see if I can find the article

Found the article...a bit long.

Yarram Standard News,Wednesday February 1,2006

STRIKE ME LUCKY

A husband and wife narrowly escaped death when lightning struck their boat in the inlet off McLoughlins Beach recently.
Stephen and Pam Vetch were standing less than a metre away from the lightning bolt when it hit the stern,sparking spot fires,destroying their outboard and leaving them stranded and terrified as a storm hovered above.
The boat was possibly just seconds away from exploding,as burning electrical wires partly melted fuel lines.The lightning short-circuited a digita camera Mrs Veitch was holding at the time and frazzled the throttle control box,spurting grease across the windscreen.A radio and depth-sounder were also destroyed."It just blew us onto the floor of the boat.I had trouble hearing afterwards;the noise was just horrendous.My hearing is just starting to come good now," Mr Veitch said."The lightning blew the cover off the outboard,blew the glass out of the trim indicator and the dash was on fire.There was so much heat running through the motor that the choke was welded into the carburettor."The intense flash temporarily affected the couple's eyes and Mrs Veitch sustained a burn to her leg.
Mr Veitch said the lightning struck a metal-framed net protruding from a rod holder.The net vanished and is yet to be found."It's probably on the moon next to the American flag,"Mrs Veitch said.Another McLoughlins Beach resident,Jarrod Gathercole,and a friend found the outboard cover while prawning near St Margaret's Island last Friday night,a week after the incident occured.
After coming to his senses,Mr Veitch reached for the fire extinguisher to bring the fires on the outboard under control.Even his hat,which had been blown from his head during the ordeal,was alight.He has since bought a second extinguisher,saying the experience taught him not to rely on just one.
"One was not enough.I had to put out fires on the motor and underneath.It was just lucky that I had bought a new extinguisher about three weeks before,"he said.While attending to the fires,the couple heard a buzzing sound."The bilge pump had started because of the shock of the lightning,"Mr Veitch said.
Luckily the couple's mobile phone still worked and they rang their neighbours Ken and Darren McSweeney and asked them for a tow in-shore but as the McSweeney's boat was entirely aluminium,they opted to wait,for fear of lightning striking twice.
The Veitch couple said the weather that morning was beautiful although storms could be seen above the ocean,apparently heading out to sea."I saw the lightning and I thought I would take a photo to paint,"Mrs Veitch said."I was holding the camera for 10 seconds and the next thing the lightning comes and the camera is shaking and it flew out of my hand."The storm had been going out to sea but it must have turned around.A woman who lives down the road from us said her crystal cabinet and the pictures on her wall were shaking."Who ever thought this would happen?We were fishing in the inlet and were about to come in."
Mr Veitch believed the fact the top of their boat was fibreglass,and they were standing on a wooden floor with a rubber back,insulated them from the full force of the electrical current.
"We had a 60 litre fuel tank under the flor and expected that to go up.We were ready to jump out if we had to,"he said.Upon their return,the couple heard children off the jetty had felt a few tingles,which some locals have also attributed to lightning.So,after all that,did the Veitch couple catch any fish?
"We had already got a few flathead.The fish would probably only cost a few bob to buy and look at what it has cost us to catch them!"Mr Veitchsaid.
"But then again you could be in your backyard and be hit by lightning.You just don't really know ,do you?"
He has since removed his aluminium rod holders and plans to replace those with plastic models.

THE END..thankfully!!


I think there's something in that for everyone.....::) :o :o

Darren

[murf]

I wouldnt have been a happy camper...was fishing with a graphite rod in westernport bay once during thundery storm and the rod started buzzing when I lifted it over my head...i put it down on the floor and there it stayed while I went home..asap. Bloody scary actually.

Original good question...whats the answer..?

had the same experience http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=66010

wouldn't being in a metal boat be better than a fibreglass one as the resistance of the fiberglass is higher than metal making you the path of least resistance?

I thought I read somewhere that wooden and fiberglass yachts have an under water metal plate to dissipate the strike to the water?

being in a little open boat of any construction you will always be very vulnerable to being hit personally, would rather have a mast of some sort connected to the water electrically

cheers Murf

[ozscott]

Faradays cage is well described in the 12 volt electrical doctors book for boats...bit extravagant to build and pretty heavy too...big lots of chains everywhere.

Cheers