DPI bloke at Raby Bay ramp

[mik01]

coming back in at raby bay ramp today, was a fisheries bloke at the ramp sitting in his car.

he asked my mate, who went up to reverse the trailer, if we have caught anything. no - he said.

then when mate reversed trailer, Fisheries bloke was taking photos of my boat and car from the divers seat of his car.

not knowing he had identified himself to my mate, I thought he must be a boat enthusiast - no markings on the 4wd.

just felt a bit weird him taking pics of my boat - anyone know why?
didn't search the boat or anything - just sat in the unmarked 4wd and took pics.

[breamnut]

i saw the dpi doing the same thing at tweed with my boat a while ago, same situation we had no fish.

[ThePinkPanther]

You missed an opportunity to go up to him and ask him what it was all about.

Get his name, ask for identification, why was he taking pics etc.

These Officers are not a law unto themselves and you have every right to query his actions!

[the gecko]

Im with pink panther, front him and make him fess up. Many of them are just doing routine reconnaisance after receiving a complaint, and there may be issues in the area like crab pot theives. If he wont tell you why hes taking photos, Id write down his name and ID number.

All law officers are obliged to produce ID when asked by a member of the public. Its your way of making sure hes not a thief in a govt shirt, sussing out boats to steal. Unmarked car taking photos, I wouldnt let that pass without a few questions.

Andrew

[FNQCairns]

Reading between the lines, the compliance side has probably got a hold of some public money to build/add to a database of 'suspicious' fish related activity.

Since the start of this project they have not been able to full fill the requirement for the funding with honest content as largely the 'rampant' illegal re-fisherman activity belief is an entire furphy.

Now the blokes in the field have been told by their managers to just fill it up with anything that will be seen to justify the grant money allocated (easy and common thing to pull off intra-departmentally), not impossibly so they can get even more money for furthering of the project and money in the bank. So that is IMO exactly what is happening.....fisheries in action, seen more or less the same from the inside.

Interesting bit is they would also even need to interrogate state/fed data bases and will be recording all of your private info into the fields required.

The reason for this behaviour needs to be impartially investigated, but who you going to ring -ghost busters??

cheers fnq

[Lucky_Phill]

Don't know why they were taking pics, but.

There is no law stopping people taking pics at boat ramps, car parks, as a matter of fact , anywhere in public is OK and of anyone or anything.

There are many instances where the law is broken once the photo is taken... copyright for instance, displaying photos in public without permission and selling photos without permission, to name a few.

It IS against the law to take a photo of someone or something that is in a non-public space, like your backyard, inside your house ( through a window ) etc.

Maybe I should simply ask the DPI&F.....


Phill.
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[honda900]

Dont know if its related but;

Up near the cafe on top of mount glorious the cops pulled over every bike rider that was there, they photographed the bike and the riders helmet, and wrote down the rego.

My mate questioned the cop, basically the answer was they were keeping a record of bikes and helmets so they could match them to fines, if the rider did a runner or the speed camera missed the number plate.

My mate asked about the legality of what they were doing and the cop basically said its within the law you dont have a leg to stand on.

Just think if they have a camera at the boat ramps (just like the goldie seaway entrance), they can record every boat that comes or goes. With a picture identifying the boat they could match it to a rego number and maybe come round to your house monday morning to have a look see.

Anyway just a thought.

Regards
Honda

[Mr__Bean]

Probably not relevant here but when I used to fish in Victoria when certain fish with low daily bag limits were on the bite they used to record boat movements to counteract those that would go out in the morning and get their daily bag limit, then go out for lunch and get their daily bag limit, then head out again that night and get their daily bag limit.

- Darren

[rubba]

have been at raby bay and had one of these fellas come up to me as well,nice bloke just asked to measure fish no prob.recorded sizes let him put his hands down into cold esky regards dale;D

[Lucky_Phill]

OK, have contact with Fisheries.

pm sent to mik01.


results soon.


Phill
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[mickc]

He may have been just filling in time . There is often strange happenings at boat ramps . Boats fall of trailers, cars end up in water etc, idiots on jet skis , birds with feathers , birds with bikinis . The list goes on , oh there is also paranoid people who think that somebody " may " have taken a photo of their boat. Obviously the only reason you knew that he was D.P.I. was the fact that he had spoken to your mate other than that you would not have known or cared .

[ThePinkPanther]

I followed up along the lines of Lucky Phil and sent an email to DPI querying the incident.

Got an automated response saying the DPI at Cleveland will be contacted and I will be advised of the outcome.

Better than sitting back doing nuffing...................

Also worth knowing that in Australia you can't just pop off pictures of people as you like!!!

There is a law covering a person's "expectation of privacy" and if he/she believes you are intruding on that expectation you can (ha ha) take them to court and try for a win!

Secondly, you cannot use a zoom lens on your camera to take a photo of a person and/or their belongings (boat/trailer?), By so doing you are invading their privacy as they are the prime subject and not a "generalized picture".

Basically once you deliberately and intentionally focus in on a particular person or their possessions etc. you could technically be sued. Of course, after tens of thousands of doillars later, who cares?

This a 2003 paper that highlights the difficulties of the subject (pun intended) but the NSW Government is presently redoing all their legislation to tighten up on the taking of photos by both the commuinity and organizations - in our favour!

http://www.privacy.vic.gov.au/dir100/priweb.nsf/download/30C5A74FA3B5B7A0CA256CBF001C7849/$FILE/01.03_Images_privacy.pdf

[Mossy247]

Hmmmm this is all a little strange by the DPI I think I might let them take my photo maybe ask them to email me a copy, I don't have a nice shot with my boat and me. LoL could always report them to ASIO (call the terrorist hotline) suspisious activities like the Advertisement says.... I hope they get my good side :P

[SummerTrance]

Don't know why they were taking pics, but.

There is no law stopping people taking pics at boat ramps, car parks, as a matter of fact , anywhere in public is OK and of anyone or anything.

There are many instances where the law is broken once the photo is taken... copyright for instance, displaying photos in public without permission and selling photos without permission, to name a few.

It IS against the law to take a photo of someone or something that is in a non-public space, like your backyard, inside your house ( through a window ) etc.

Maybe I should simply ask the DPI&F.....


Phill.
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Hey mate, your spot on with the first part about public places. If your in public place, expect to be filmed.
However not not quite correct about the second bit. It is legal to film someone in their backyard, or through a window, as long as you are doing so from a public space, and not on their property. In Queensland, is is only illegal to film or observe, persons engaging in private acts, such as undressing or showering or making babies.

[SummerTrance]

Also worth knowing that in Australia you can't just pop off pictures of people as you like!!!

There is a law covering a person's "expectation of privacy" and if he/she believes you are intruding on that expectation you can (ha ha) take them to court and try for a win!

Secondly, you cannot use a zoom lens on your camera to take a photo of a person and/or their belongings (boat/trailer?), By so doing you are invading their privacy as they are the prime subject and not a "generalized picture".

Basically once you deliberately and intentionally focus in on a particular person or their possessions etc. you could technically be sued. Of course, after tens of thousands of doillars later, who cares?

This a 2003 paper that highlights the difficulties of the subject (pun intended) but the NSW Government is presently redoing all their legislation to tighten up on the taking of photos by both the commuinity and organizations - in our favour!

http://www.privacy.vic.gov.au/dir100/priweb.nsf/download/30C5A74FA3B5B7A0CA256CBF001C7849/$FILE/01.03_Images_privacy.pdf

Just skimmed through that fact sheet. Firstly that mainly relates to Victorian Law, however I am aware of the Commonwealth Privacy Act. From what I can see, it is concerned about taking photo's, and then using them in publications, advertisments, or in public arena's such as the media or internet.

But sorry mate, as long as your subject is in a public place, you can 'pop off' as many pictures as you like for your own use. You can also use a zoom lens to focus on anything you like, as long as it is not indecent (such as zooming in on private parts) or filming or observing people engaged in private acts.

[Lucky_Phill]

Thanks Guys, I am aware of the ' legalities ' but was simply trying to ' generalize ".

The important thing with all matters of law, it doesn't matter who breaks them, it is a matter of the victim having enough money to fight for their privacy and principles.

I expect and answer from DPI officer today or tomorrow.

OH, " private Acts ",,,, is picking ones nose considered ' private ' ? ;D ::)

phill

[heath7162]

It's possible he was taking the photo's to later run through the boat rego and boat licencing database later. I got checked at the ramp recently and was asked if I had my licence with me which I didn't. They then ask you if you own the boat and then take down the boat rego, and check it later to see if the registered owner of the boat has a boat licence. This saves them writing down all your personal particulars at the time of interception. They can take all the photo's they like of my boat- it's in a public place and I have nothing to hide.

[charleville]

I They can take all the photo's they like of my boat- it's in a public place and I have nothing to hide.



That tends to be my view but there is something disturbing about the amount of surveillance that has crept into society.


At the risk of using an "Americanism" it does seem to be a bit un-Australian to be photographing people in this way for official reasons.




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[hookinin]

Well guys sorry to disappoint you all but i know the bloke in question as owns his own truck and transports plants for us wholesale nurseries mondays to fridays unless the weather good then you'll probably find him on the water. We hd a good laugh about all the conspiracy theories at smoko today when he picked up a load of plants. Yes he was in a unmarked vehicle, its his own. He has to get to the ramp somehow to do his 4 hour shift he does part time as part of the long term monitoring program. He did have a camera with him as he is a keen photographer but sorry no photo's of your boat to pass on but looking at your boat in your avatar, his boat looks fairly similar and the same colour so may have been just interested. Just trying to kill time on a slow day at the ramp and playing with his camera. He's a keen fisho and has been fishing this area for 60 odd years, so if you had no fish and stopped and talked he may have been able to help instead of all this nonsense. Rubba yep thats all it is recording size and data on certain species of fish doesn't take long and they can give you some good info;)
cheers Gaven
Wonder if now i could get a better tray rate for the plants:P

[mik01]

Well guys sorry to disappoint you all but i know the bloke in question as owns his own truck and transports plants for us wholesale nurseries mondays to fridays unless the weather good then you'll probably find him on the water. We hd a good laugh about all the conspiracy theories at smoko today when he picked up a load of plants. Yes he was in a unmarked vehicle, its his own. He has to get to the ramp somehow to do his 4 hour shift he does part time as part of the long term monitoring program. He did have a camera with him as he is a keen photographer but sorry no photo's of your boat to pass on but looking at your boat in your avatar, his boat looks fairly similar and the same colour so may have been just interested. Just trying to kill time on a slow day at the ramp and playing with his camera. He's a keen fisho and has been fishing this area for 60 odd years, so if you had no fish and stopped and talked he may have been able to help instead of all this nonsense. Rubba yep thats all it is recording size and data on certain species of fish doesn't take long and they can give you some good info;)
cheers Gaven
Wonder if now i could get a better tray rate for the plants:P

nonsense? what nonsense?
I call a bloke who sits in his car, approaches people in an 'official' capacity and then whips out a camera with a telephoto lens perhaps questionable, and not a person you want to approach and say - 'hey, what the f*ck are you taking my pic for?'

if he was keen for a chat, perhaps he could have approached me - the obvious boat owner, and had a yarn?

it hardly instills confidence in the community when 'officials' take pictures of people or their possessions - in fact, it feels creepy and looks insidious.

I don't really care, but he should be careful cos someone will someday - and make some sort of complaint, or worse, remove the camera from his possession and toss it in the drink.

and before you say anything, my original post was more to understand if he was genuine and what point it proved by only asking people without checking eskies. not to promote a 'conspiracy theory'.

love the have a yarn with him next time I see him
cheers

[bondy99]

I've been looking at some of the posts on here and responses. they all seem legit enough, the problem still lies with the person who is taking the photo, if he or she is an authorised person then the uniform is sufficient enough, if covert i.e. plain clothes they tend to be a bit more sneaky but normally would produce their warrant card nine times out of ten unless asked before hand.

But a private citizen, normally permission from the other person unless that person is not available, there are heaps of weirdos out there, DPIF and perhaps police would be interested in these activities.


DPI in Cleveland?? I thought they were at Pinkenba. The only authority at Cleveland is EPA except the Marine Parks Operations Base people, they moved to a new location.

Thats my interpretation of it. Peter

[mik01]

I've been looking at some of the posts on here and responses. they all seem legit enough, the problem still lies with the person who is taking the photo, if he or she is an authorised person then the uniform is sufficient enough, if covert i.e. plain clothes they tend to be a bit more sneaky but normally would produce their warrant card nine times out of ten unless asked before hand.

But a private citizen, normally permission from the other person unless that person is not available, there are heaps of weirdos out there, DPIF and perhaps police would be interested in these activities.


DPI in Cleveland?? I thought they were at Pinkenba. The only authority at Cleveland is EPA except the Marine Parks Operations Base people, they moved to a new location.

Thats my interpretation of it. Peter

he had no uniform and was 15m away from my boat, sitting in his car with the camera resting on the drivers window pointed at my boat.
didn't take any pics while I circled slowly for 5mins while mate reversed the car, but raised the camera when I was loading the boat on trailer - I thought at the time he was taking pics of my car and boat (ie license details of both)

probably should have approached him but was tired, and wanted to go home after a long morning of fishing

[PinHead]

It's possible he was taking the photo's to later run through the boat rego and boat licencing database later. I got checked at the ramp recently and was asked if I had my licence with me which I didn't. They then ask you if you own the boat and then take down the boat rego, and check it later to see if the registered owner of the boat has a boat licence. This saves them writing down all your personal particulars at the time of interception. They can take all the photo's they like of my boat- it's in a public place and I have nothing to hide.

a bit OT but I was not aware that the owner of a boat has to have a license for that boat????

[hookinin]

He parks in that area so he is in plain view so that doesn't look like he's hiding and regulars the have come across him before know that he's doing a survey. Not part of the enforcing side of the DPI&F, only research so your participation is voluntary and if your mate he spoke to had indicated that you had fish that he was collecting data on he would have come for a chat. Other wise just leaves you alone so not to hold you up or interrupt your routine. IMO its good to see real data being collected and we are all better off the more we know not just guessing whats going on.
Cheers Gaven

[bondy99]

He parks in that area so he is in plain view so that doesn't look like he's hiding and regulars the have come across him before know that he's doing a survey. Not part of the enforcing side of the DPI&F, only research so your participation is voluntary and if your mate he spoke to had indicated that you had fish that he was collecting data on he would have come for a chat. Other wise just leaves you alone so not to hold you up or interrupt your routine. IMO its good to see real data being collected and we are all better off the more we know not just guessing whats going on.
Cheers Gaven


G'day Gaven

I know what you're saying but I also have known a few researchers that do voluntary data collection, at least they approach the person they wish to collect data from out of courteosy, its more professional. They dont wait in cars , they wait at the wharf or jetty as the boat approaches (Charter boats) and has cooperation with everyone. As you say, its great to have statistics etc.

Maybe DPIF should provide him with a sticker for his vehicle to stand out more.
Peter

[the gecko]

Its not a conspiracy theory, you guys can laugh all you want. Sooner or later, this is gonna lead to a physical confrontation. This is not funny at all.

So this guy is a truck driver for a plant company and does voluntary research for DPI? Does he carry an official DPI ID card on him?

If its voluntary work, and no pay, then chances are that he doesnt have an ID card? That would be a recipe for physical confrontation. Is he insured? Is he acting in the manner of a govt official without the authority to do so? Voluntary research guys are not given powers to say they are DPI employees, cos they havent had the proper training.

Is the camera part of the dpi approved research, or is it just his hobby to take photos? What type of research requires photos of boats that didnt catch fish....

As you can see, taking photos is very confrontational to some people, public place or not. Some of us have had run ins with wierdos claiming they are official, and yet they are definitley not on official business. Hes lucky MIk was a nice guy and didnt smash the camera.

No offence to the poor guy doing the research, who obviously loves fish like all of us, and probably never thought things could get out of hand. This seems to be an oversight in procedure by dpi.......

DPI has my full support for anything they are doing. Research is important. If they are reading this thread, I think they will rethink their use of voluntary researchers tho. They might need official temporary signs up (like speed cameras) when ever plainclothes research is going on, and they might end up limiting research to full time employees. Id be very interested in the DPI answers that come back to Lucky Phil.

Andrew

[SummerTrance]

As you can see, taking photos is very confrontational to some people, public place or not. Some of us have had run ins with wierdos claiming they are official, and yet they are definitley not on official business. Hes lucky MIk was a nice guy and didnt smash the camera.

Andrew


As much as some people dont like having their picture taken, as Ive said b4, if your in a public place, expect it to happen. If the picture taker is an official, or an ordinary member of the public, they are doing nothing wrong, and they do not need to produce ID, or even say what they are doing. If someone wants to be a tough guy and go and smash the guys camera, which person do you think is going to get charged over the incident? Certainly wont be the guy that took pictures, rather it will be the tough guy that smashed the camera.

[dogsbody]

I don't see any harm in it. Maybe he liked the look of your boat Miko. Maybe it's to see what type of boats launch there to help future planning of ramps. Who knows.

As for conspiracy theories maybe he was waiting to be abducted by aliens and get anal probed. Hence he had the camera.

Dave.

[the gecko]

I agree with your point summertrance, and it wont be me playing tough guy. Weve all had enough of ramp rage.

All Im saying is that it is confrontational to guys who dont know the law and may have had a few drinks, and that DPI are providing very little coverage for this part time helper. Its neglect on the part of dpi to not properly ID him.

Certainly, ignorance of the law is no excuse, but an assault charge wont help the 60 year old guy with a broken camera/arm/neck.

Lets all cool it and wait until we get the info on whether he carries an official ID card or not?
And whether taking photos of boats is part of the official job?

Peace to all until then.

Andrew

[hookinin]

He took no photo's of the boat as i said in the earlier post. He is not a volunteer but employed by the DPI&F. He did have identification tag on at the time as well as Dpi&f hat. I said in earlier post your participation is voluntary this was i responce to the statement (what point it proved by only asking people without checking eskies)once again he is not part of the enforcment side but is part of the research side.He had his new camera with him and was familiarizing himself with its setting etc while waiting. He would normally approach people out of the vehicle but mik01's mate walked past him on the way to his car and said he didn't have fish. Anyway i was just trying to point out nothing unusual was happening he was just doing his job and passing time in a manner that he is entitle to do not hurting anyone. Never know by having a camera with him might just come in handy if somebody does do something they shouldn't eg pinching trailer or parts.
Cheers Gaven

[Lucky_Phill]

This should just about end it.

This is a response from a Senior Fisheries Manager


From Mick's email below, the bloke is probabaly employed by the Department to count and measure specific fish at boat ramps. This is all that they do i.e they ask boat anglers returning to ramps if they have caught anything and they ask if they can spend a few minutes recording and measuring the catch. They're not compliance officers and don't have right of inspection.



Re the camera - these guys are given instructions to be courteous and polite as we need the cooperation and goodwill of rec fishers to obtain good data. Given that Mick has been creeped out, no doubt others might have felt the same. I'll have a word to the manager running the boat ramp show about reminding their ramp staff about courtesy etc.

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[Marlin_Mike]

cant ask for a better response phil

Mike

[heath7162]

Pinhead, who said that the owner of a boat has to have a license for that boat? I didn't. What I said was that the QBFP Officers ask you for your licence and you haven't got it, they ask you if you are the registered owner of the boat. They then take down your registration number of the boat rather than taking down your name, address and date of birth. When they get back to the office they do a check on the registration number of the boat, and check the name of the registered owner against the licencing database. If the registered owner has a licence- no problems, if not-problems.