new gen 2-stroke choice 70-90 hp?

[Jeremy]

repowering my V146C Haines. I have spent alot of time on the net searching the ausfish archives and other places like Boat Point and Boat Tests to find info, specs, fuel and performance figures and reviews, and also calling dealerships for their info and quotes.

Choice is now narrowed down to Mercury Optimax 75 and Tohatsu TLDI 90. The merc 75 is 170 kg and I can't find any figures on the net for performance and fuel usage. Would appreciate any feedback from current or past owners.

The TLDI 90 is actually lighter at 138 kg and the info I have trawled up looks good for performance and fuel economy. Apparently is gives better economy than the E-TEC 75!

Price is not an issue as the quotes I have for each outboard are very similar.

I do about 100-120 hours per year so fuel economy is important, and I cross bars, do some trolling and cover some miles.

Any info welcome.

Thanks

[Luke G]

What about Suzukis new lightweight 90? 155 kg's

[disorderly]

Jeremy...when I was repowering a couple of years ago I had both a merc and evinrude dealer locally...the big weight difference made it much easier to decide on the E-Tec 90 ....that extra 30 kg's(Opti) hanging right off the back would have been a killer with my old boat...

Mines a tin boat but still I'd go for the much lighter TLDI even on a glass boat...

[Moonlighter]

Hi Jeremy

You might have seen in previous posts my "raves" about my TLDI 90.

Well I'm still raving. Fuel economy on my JBS plate 4.75 (a bit longer and maybe a touch heavier than your Haines 146C I would think) is outstanding, I have never done worse than 3km/litre and have achieved up to 3.5km/litre.

Last weekend, for example, I did a run from Cleveland up to Harry's, drifted and fished for 45 mins, then went up to the 4 beacons and did some jigging, then went up to Capt Neilsen, then back down to the little sandhills to chase some whiting, back to the Rous, then back to South West rocks and a couple of spots around Peel drifting with plastics and finally home to Cleveland. Distance travelled 101km, fuel used just under 30 litres, an average of easily 3.36km/litre which is pretty typical.

Most of the trip from the Capt Neilsen back to Cleveland was done sitting on 4800rpm and just over 52kph. The trip north a bit slower on about 3800rpm as it was into a mortherly swell.

I've run up 350 hrs over the past 4 years, no dramas whatsoever. Its a beaut engine. I will add that its not as quiet as a 4 st at idle - one of my "mates" an Ausfisher BobP unkindly refers to it as "the little diesel" as he reckons it sounds like one at low revs, hope he enjoyed the swim home after that remark!

One of the key factors for me was that on a relatively small boat I was really concerned about weight and at 143kg the Tohatsu is up there with the lightest (only e-tec compares) and given a close friend's current dramas with his brand spanking new 90 e-tec's trim and tilt, we won't even go there!!!

I would be a bit concerned with the weight and sheer "bulk" of the Opti on your 146C - I am quite familiar with that hull and don't know that it would carry that weight all that well. Mate had same boat with 70 Yammy 2 stroke (107kg I seem to recall) and it was very nicely balanced. I reckon 170kg would be really stretching the friendship, but 143KG with the TLDI would be more do-able.

One thing I would do if I had the $ was put a better prop on it. The std Toey alloy one quite easily loses grip in turns unless trimmed all the way in and can be a bit doughy if you've got weight on out of the hole - could be my hull but think the prop could be better. Mentioned this to Jon Eadie (my mobile mech - highly recommended!) recently and he immediately said he knew what I meant and confidently stated that a Merc Vengeance prop is the way to go. I'll be following that up soon I hope.

Let me know if there's anything else you'd like to know.

Grant

[Jeremy]

thanks for the excellent advice fellas. I hadn't seen (or remembered) your 'rants' about your TLDI 90 before Grant, but your figures compare well with some figures I trawled up for 'Dicko' here from a couple of years ago.

Anyone got a Merc Optimax 70?

Jeremy

[Dicko]

thanks for the excellent advice fellas. I hadn't seen (or remembered) your 'rants' about your TLDI 90 before Grant, but your figures compare well with some figures I trawled up for 'Dicko' here from a couple of years ago.

Anyone got a Merc Optimax 70?

Jeremy

lol, that musta been me.

Also had mine about 4 yrs now. Haven't had a problem. Besides fishing, I used it a heap for skiing for a couple of years. Have since got a dedicated ski boat, so now the tohatsu is back to being just a fishing rig.

I kept an eye on the fuel usage data for a while but haven't bothered for a few years once I had a handle on what it will do.

It starts, I go fishing, I come home.

Fuel economy is that good, I just about have to siphon some out when I get home as I end up with more than I started with.

[Waraba Mick]

Hi Jeremy just some thing to check my info on the 146c says 85hp is max, 5 hp over is not much but you how good insurance companys are at protecting thier bottom line at claim time.



mick.

[Jabba_]

Hi Jeremy just some thing to check my info on the 146c says 85hp is max, 5 hp over is not much but you how good insurance companys are at protecting thier bottom line at claim time.



mick.
There real good at protecting there bottom line... If your max power is 85hp, don't even consider over powering it by 1hp... They will bump you off in the event of a claim.......

[krazyfisher]

I have a tohatsu tldi 115 and could not be happier with it fuel is great

[Gary Fooks]

The TLDI is only 2 star rated - the ETec and Suzuki 3 star. When regulations come in ( i'l know more Friday - but 2010 - 2012 at the latest) you wont be able to buy anything less than 3 star.

So you need to consider resale value - and availability of spares. No one has a crystal ball so exactly what who knows. Only 10% of Tohatsu sales are 3 star engines - so i dont kknow how they will sirvive if they lose 90% of their sales. Something to consider.

[FNQCairns]

Why buy another engine? I just saw your add in the for sale here. Each to their own obviously but once you fork out for a new one + the depreciation it's going to take a LOT of hours to break even on fuel and oil alone say the 5th or 7th year? dunno haven't done the sums. I have done the sums on my old smokey and am in this situation ATM.

Also that engine is near a perfect match for your boat - not counting that lighter is almost always better.

cheers fnq

[Moonlighter]

Hi again guys

I should have added, just in case anyone thinks my views could be biased by being on their payroll in some way shape or form, that I don't owe Tohatsu anything - zip, nil, etc for the opinions I've offered in this or any other thread - paid for the TLDI 100% myself, and didn't even get a TLDI cap for my trouble (are you listening Tohatsu marketing people???!!! :-* :-*

I still have to wear one of the 5 or 6 Yamaha caps I was given during the time when I had one of their excellent motors. By the way, I hear rumours that a very lightweight Yammy 70 4st is on the horizon in the not too distant future - wouldn't that put the cat amongst the pidgeons! :-X :-X

Regarding Tohatsu spares, I have never had any difficulty nor do I have any reason to anticipate same in the future. Tohatsu are a long established Japanese company who have a history of testing their motors, then testing them a bit more, then a bit more again, before releasing them onto the market. I understand that they have strong technical partnerships with Mercury and they supply many of the smaller hp outboards (rebadged) for some other manufacturers.

I think it is wrong of Gary to make comments that cause doubts in people's mind about Tohatsu's long-term viability. Quite to the contrary, if past history is any indicator, Tohatsu prospered during the 90's when some of the others were struggling and (OMC springs to mind) actually collapsed or withdrew from the Aust market. Gary, if you are somehow aligned with any manufacturer/s you should fess up publicly so we can value your opinion accordingly.

I am sure Tohatsu and Mercury and the other big player Gary didn't mention-Yamaha will rise to the challenge if and when mandatory emission standards come into force in Australia. IMO, this is another example of where it would be best if all the outboard companies continued to work together thru OEDA (Outboard Engine Distributors Aust) rather than some going this way and others that way in pursuit of their own agendas.

In this regard it was also disappointing to hear reliable reports that there were some people running around at this year's Brisbane boat show telling all sorts of stories to poor unsuspecting and perhaps less worldly-wise souls about how 2 strokes or anything not 3 star rated would soon be banned and inferring they wouldn't be able to be used in future - upset some poor blokes pretty badly, and is just scaremongering at its worst in an attenpt to grab more market share IMO. Shameful stuff.>:(>:( >:(

Grant

[Idletime]

I know this is a bit left feild but after a lot of research i finally repowered my seafarer v-sea with a 60hp 4/s yamaha (high thrust), coming down from my old 90hp Evinrude is was a nervous move but with only 25 hours up i can cruise @ 40km doing 4300rpm, wot = 54km @ 5500rpm & fuel has been halfed + or - ..
Weighing in at 120kg ( 25" leg) i'm pretty happy as i was keen on the e-tech or optimax but the kg's turned me off. hope this helps, or does it add to the confusion??.
P.S. -- if you do a search on 60hp yamaha or mercury bigfoot you'll find a few other reviews...

[Moonlighter]

Ideltime

I agree - the 60 Yammy 4stroke would be a real option to consider on the 146C. Many of them were originally fitted with 55 Johnnos and they were 55 hp at the crank - not rated at the prop like now so would have been more like 5ohp when new!

Grant

[TheSaint]

mate have alook at the mercury site for engine tests & fuel usage..

http://www.mercurymarine.com/look_deeper/index.php

[Jeremy]

thanks for all the feedback. Speaking to a few people, I believe that the V146C was rated to a 90 when originally released. Actually, I have been told that boats back then were rated to weight rather than hp. Anyway, I believe that they were able to carry the V4 90s that were around then.

The two/three-star CARB rating is a consideration. Not sure how much.

Also FNQ, regarding the repowering figures. I do a bit over 100 hours a year (or have been until now), and if I save 50% in fuel costs (and oil costs), I would be close to breaking even in 5-6 years (at todays prices, let along next years). Plus much slower depreciation for a DI 2-stroke or 4-stroke than a carb 2-stroke. Plus quieter and cleaner running etc.

At the 11th hour, I spoke to a friend last night, and then a friend of his. There may yet be a dark horse bolting in from the back of the pack...have to get prices yet and see when it will be available.

Jeremy

[Waraba Mick]

Hi Jeremy, i have the HH brochure in front of me as i type and it states-- outboard capacity 85hp. It makes no reference to wieght any where in the specs.



cheers mick.

[Jeremy]

Thanks Mick, I would be very interested to have a look at that. PM sent

Jeremy

[Coontakinta]

Jeremy, as the owner of a TLDI90 and frequent user of a 75 Optimax, can I give you my thoughts on the two.

The Tohatsu is the powerplant for my 5m Razerline. To say I'm pretty rapt with the TLDI is an accurate statement, with one exception. It does not seem to have the same torque as an equievelent E-tec. I know some will tell me this aint right, but I have it from other Razerline owners with similar HP Etec's that they are spinning larger pitch blades to that which I can on my TLDI. I had to go down to a 14" to get the required revs @ WOT. Sure, the props on them arent much chop either and I too am looking to upgrade to stanless in the not to distant future. One I have been able to carry out some testing with a vengence prop as suggested in an earlier post.

I concurr also about the idling noise. The clater of the injectors sure does make it sound like a diesel in that regard, but it is no worse than the noise from the opti. Generally speaking most of my fellow club members dont realise the Tohie is in fact a DI, thinking that its a 4stroke because its so quiet.

In my view the Tohie is quieter, lighter, smoother, and more smoke free than the opti and also less bulky. The Tohie doesnt need hydraulic steering and generally is cheaper to purchase initially, although this has the effect of reducing resale down the track. I know I have placed some fuel ecconomy fiqures on this site before so maybe worth having a search for them. They were taken from my NAVMAN fuel managemnt system.

Now the Opti. I say I use this one frequently as its located on the bum of my old mans Northbank 490C. I dont know how the Nthbnk compares to your HH, but the Nthbnk seems to handle the extra weight well. The power from the opti is amazing and I had initially suggested that dad get a 90 for this hull as he bought it new. The 75 proved ample for it however and whilst we havent yet gone head to head, I think it may make his boat faster tha mine. My WOT speed is around 56km/h, and I've had dads at around 38mph, but with a much lighter load (no live / kill tanks, lighter fuel load and one up) The opti on his boat is spinning a 16" Vengence.

What I dont like about the opti is it just feels like a "yank tank" it doesnt feel as smooth as the tohie, nor as quiet, or smoke free. The later I'm sure is not quite right and is to be investigated further. The Nthbank would really benifit from some hydraulic steering, but this may not neccessarily be as a result of the motor. Others would be able to confirm or deny this ??? Even the shifting of gears feels agricultural. In saying that however, even the Tohie sounds like things are grinding when changing gear, but it feels smoother.

If I had to make the choice again, I'm not sure which one I'd choose, I might even consider the E-tec again. I dont know, but I hope I have given you some information that will help in your decision making.