fishing log's

[catfish55]

Ok guy’s and girls, I have a program called”Fishing Log” and well maybe I’m not getting the best out of it because I think writing it down seems better, and I know a computer designed program SHOULD be easier to dissect and compare things like barometer readings and tide times moon phases etc. This is the only real way to learn I think. most people aren’t going to tell you things that have taken years to learn and I appreciate that so I’d like to hear from anyone that have a program , know of a program,what it’s called etc and , well very important can a non NERD use it ( training wheels) . That could be why I’m not getting the best from this one?????Maybe. Pity it didn’t come with a video instructions. With the fishing log you don’t get a lot of room to put in comments etc. Would appreciate some feedback and advise as to other programs as well ……pat;) :D

[Beeracudda]

I was just researching the same idea and found a great site called Fishing Solutions but when I try and register it fails I have emailed the site and am awaiting a response. The website is http://www.fishingsolutions.com.au/ it uses data from a few different sources that makes it a powerful tool.

[Didley]

Very interested Catfish. I was going to make one up myself. I didn't know there was any thing out there. I'll keep watch on this thread

Thanks Dids

[TonyM]

I created one called Fishing Buddy a few years ago which seemed to get good feedback from users although it fell on the back burner due to other commitments.

It includes a comprehensive fishing log for bait/lure/fly fishing and you can provide as little or as much detail as you like.

If you really want to get into nitty gritty it caters for things like water condition, wind, barometric pressure, tides, waves, water temp, air temp, sun & moon times (highly accurate solunar calculator included), and more. It even includes a section on Hatches for fly fishers, along with the ability to store and view information and photos of fish, bait, lures, locations, knots, tackle etc.

I'm fairly busy for the next month or so but I do plan on eventually releasing a version 2 of it later this year, shoot me a pm if you're interested in being a beta tester for the new version.

Cheers
Tony

[Didley]

I created one called Fishing Buddy

Where can I buy it Tony, how much does it cost.

[TheRealAndy]

I created one called Fishing Buddy a few years ago which seemed to get good feedback from users although it fell on the back burner due to other commitments.

It includes a comprehensive fishing log for bait/lure/fly fishing and you can provide as little or as much detail as you like.

If you really want to get into nitty gritty it caters for things like water condition, wind, barometric pressure, tides, waves, water temp, air temp, sun & moon times (highly accurate solunar calculator included), and more. It even includes a section on Hatches for fly fishers, along with the ability to store and view information and photos of fish, bait, lures, locations, knots, tackle etc.

I'm fairly busy for the next month or so but I do plan on eventually releasing a version 2 of it later this year, shoot me a pm if you're interested in being a beta tester for the new version.

Cheers
Tony

Need a hand?? I was going to say if there is enough interest I will get stuck into writing a program, but not much point if someone has already done it!

[catfish55]

thanks beeracuda not quite what i had in mind , but let us know how it goes.......
tony thanks mate have sent you a pm, well i hope i have hehe

[TonyM]

Need a hand?? I was going to say if there is enough interest I will get stuck into writing a program, but not much point if someone has already done it!

Hi Andy,

Having seen a great example of your coding skills I'd be interested in having a chat about that! Have shot you a pm ;)

To the others that have pm'd me - thanks, I will notify you each when there's something for you to look at (maybe sooner than I expected with a little luck)

Cheers
Tony

[TonyM]

Where can I buy it Tony, how much does it cost.


Hi Didley, sorry it's not currently for sale as I withdrew version 1 from the market after it failed as a shareware application - basically lots of people liked using it but unfortunately only a very small percentage (who will get a free upgrade to version 2) bothered to pay for it. I can understand it as there was no real barrier to using it as I hate crippleware (software that stops working unless you pay)

Not sure how it will be marketed as yet but I have a few ideas, however on this forum is not the appropriate place to talk about business so safest bet would be to keep an eye on ausfish and when the software is ready I'll arrange with Steve and co. to advertise it on the ausfish site (where else!) :)

Catfish - sorry for Hijacking your thread! Hopefully you'll like the Beta when it's ready for testing!

Cheers
Tony

[2manylures]

These things have been around in one form or another for well over 15yrs & all have been dismal failures.

Most who have kept logs will tell you that the information gathered is asically useless & those who believe hard enough only confuse themselves & become worse anglers than prior too.

Don't waste your money or your time would be reasonably good advice.;D

[catfish55]

These things have been around in one form or another for well over 15yrs & all have been dismal failures.

Most who have kept logs will tell you that the information gathered is asically useless & those who believe hard enough only confuse themselves & become worse anglers than prior too.

Don't waste your money or your time would be reasonably good advice.;D

thanks for your honesty mate, but surly if you were able to properlycheck different things like tide moon b/m pressure time of day solunar peeks and types of baits etc . surly some sort of patterns would amerge especialy what time of the year etc.
if i was to sort out what i wanted could these things be sorted with a windows program in office???? could any of these programs convert the findings to pillar graphs???? as you can see i'm not an expert in these fields ....pat

[2manylures]

thanks for your honesty mate, but surly if you were able to properlycheck different things like tide moon b/m pressure time of day solunar peeks and types of baits etc . surly some sort of patterns would amerge especialy what time of the year etc.
if i was to sort out what i wanted could these things be sorted with a windows program in office???? could any of these programs convert the findings to pillar graphs???? as you can see i'm not an expert in these fields ....pat

I'm no expert either when it comes to these programs, don't profess to be.

IF you were to fish by findings of logged data then you'd be only fishing a few minutes on a few days a year depending on the criteria you elect to go with.

Fishing is, in general pretty basic & simple.

The more technical you make it the more confusing it will become. Keep it simple & you'll catch more fish & have a lot more fun from doing so. This would explain why none of these "programs" have lived.

Also bear in mind that indigeneous people around the world who's main diet is fish catch fish yr round to survive. Have been doing so for thousands of yrs.

Each to there own but why make something simple so difficult & confusing?

[catfish55]

I'm no expert either when it comes to these programs, don't profess to be.

IF you were to fish by findings of logged data then you'd be only fishing a few minutes on a few days a year depending on the criteria you elect to go with.

Fishing is, in general pretty basic & simple.

The more technical you make it the more confusing it will become. Keep it simple & you'll catch more fish & have a lot more fun from doing so. This would explain why none of these "programs" have lived.

Also bear in mind that indigeneous people around the world who's main diet is fish catch fish yr round to survive. Have been doing so for thousands of yrs.

Each to there own but why make something simple so difficult & confusing?


does poor memory count hehehe...pat

[2manylures]

Along with age yep!

You're off the "hook";)

[TonyM]

These things have been around in one form or another for well over 15yrs & all have been dismal failures.

Most who have kept logs will tell you that the information gathered is asically useless & those who believe hard enough only confuse themselves & become worse anglers than prior too.

Don't waste your money or your time would be reasonably good advice.;D

Wow that's quite a bold statement :o

All of the better fisherman that I have met seem to have one thing in common. They recognise that fish are at different locations at different times of the year, and during different conditions. Many species also feed differently during differing conditions. Knowing that information about your target species enables you to target them with confidence rather than just guesswork.

I guess that one thing could be said to be what defines the difference between an angler and a dangler. i.e. Targetting a species rather than just going for a fish (nothing wrong with that - it's just there are many kinds of fishing and it's all fun)

To say that "the information gathered is basically useless" says one of two things to me. Either the information gathered was not accurate enough, or they didn't understand how to analyse the data - that's where you find the patterns and begin to learn.

Some people seem to have photographic memory, and then there's the rest of us mere mortals. To remember all this info you can write it in a notebook (would have to be the easiest way) although analysing the data then becomes a lot more difficult. If you take the time to put it into a database you can then query the data (if you know how) and very easily see trends and patterns, these are the key to learning how to improve your success ;)

How do you think they got to be so good? Simple, the answer is time spent on the water, plus they keep there eyes open and look for these patterns to emerge over the years. (doesn't happen overnight)


Also bear in mind that indigeneous people around the world who's main diet is fish catch fish yr round to survive. Have been doing so for thousands of yrs.
And these very same indigenous people have built up there own data over many many many years and hand it down to their children through rote and stories - they are amongst the lucky few that seem to have photographic memory and some also have many other systems using calenders, moon phases, tides, weather, etc etc to ensure they know where to go at a particular time to increase their chance of getting a feed ;)


I wouldn't say none of these programs have lived, there are several out there that have a big following, mine had literally over 100,000 users worldwide (not huge for software but not bad for what it is) the reason I pulled it from the market is that by design people had no incentive to pay for it as they got the whole caboodle free, leaving me to support the software without remuneration. Next time I release it it will either be free (with limited support), or paid - not shareware, and as such will support itself one way or another.




IF you were to fish by findings of logged data then you'd be only fishing a few minutes on a few days a year depending on the criteria you elect to go with.

If you did that you would obviously be getting carried away and that's just silly ;D I go fishing when I can, although to improve my chances I make sure I'm at the right spot during the most productive times rather than travelling at that time. Of course If you don't experiment outside of your past experiences you will never improve. As I said earlier there's nothing wrong with going for a fish whenever you feel like it and if you let a bit of software talk you out of a fishing opportunity well that's just plain dumb. It is however smart to learn from past experience if you wish to improve and especially if you have any kind of competitive spirit (as many of us do)

phew - sorry for the long speil, hard to answer that in a short response!

Cheers
Tony

[catfish55]

thanks tony i'm not as clever as you putting thoughts to paper , must be that old age thing. what was the name of yours . have you had anythink to do with the one called fishing log fron ken ???? it was advertised on the other forum ########### . tell me can you get graphs , well that may not be the word i'm looking for visual details like they have here in ther polls were ther are different say pilons for different chosenfinds etc. i'm talking in a say data base. . look you can pm me if you like ... don't forget i'm just off my training wheels her but getting better..... thats a polite way of saying i'm a dumb f#$%^%ather (f@#@^ather).. hehe...pat

[TonyM]

Hi Pat

Mate I'm no spring chicken either ;D You don't seem too dumb to me, you're on the net making use of one of the best fishing sites around and that aint stoopid :)

Yes Ken has an application that has a pretty good following. Personally I felt there were a few areas that could be more user friendly and intuitive when I looked at this and many others years back. Plus I found it a little limiting as to what info you could capture, and the reporting also seemed limited.

I am not affiliated with Ken and my application was called "Fishing Buddy" - I'll most likely rename it for version 2 as I don't like that name any more, plus in the last few years a few copy cat versions that I don't want to be associated with have used the same name.

One of the key features for me is making use of the data once you get it in, and yes that includes the ability to create graphs etc at the click of a button that allow you to quickly see any trends.

The other thing that was important to me was to make it easy to enter a smaller amount of information if you wish, or if you're a mad keen fisho that has to get the edge the ability to go to town with as much data as you can get.

Hope that helps.

Cheers
Tony

[2manylures]

Wow that's quite a bold statement :o

All of the better fisherman that I have met seem to have one thing in common. They recognise that fish are at different locations at different times of the year, and during different conditions. Many species also feed differently during differing conditions. Knowing that information about your target species enables you to target them with confidence rather than just guesswork.

I guess that one thing could be said to be what defines the difference between an angler and a dangler. i.e. Targetting a species rather than just going for a fish (nothing wrong with that - it's just there are many kinds of fishing and it's all fun)

To say that "the information gathered is basically useless" says one of two things to me. Either the information gathered was not accurate enough, or they didn't understand how to analyse the data - that's where you find the patterns and begin to learn.

Some people seem to have photographic memory, and then there's the rest of us mere mortals. To remember all this info you can write it in a notebook (would have to be the easiest way) although analysing the data then becomes a lot more difficult. If you take the time to put it into a database you can then query the data (if you know how) and very easily see trends and patterns, these are the key to learning how to improve your success ;)

How do you think they got to be so good? Simple, the answer is time spent on the water, plus they keep there eyes open and look for these patterns to emerge over the years. (doesn't happen overnight)


And these very same indigenous people have built up there own data over many many many years and hand it down to their children through rote and stories - they are amongst the lucky few that seem to have photographic memory and some also have many other systems using calenders, moon phases, tides, weather, etc etc to ensure they know where to go at a particular time to increase their chance of getting a feed ;)


I wouldn't say none of these programs have lived, there are several out there that have a big following, mine had literally over 100,000 users worldwide (not huge for software but not bad for what it is) the reason I pulled it from the market is that by design people had no incentive to pay for it as they got the whole caboodle free, leaving me to support the software without remuneration. Next time I release it it will either be free (with limited support), or paid - not shareware, and as such will support itself one way or another.




If you did that you would obviously be getting carried away and that's just silly ;D I go fishing when I can, although to improve my chances I make sure I'm at the right spot during the most productive times rather than travelling at that time. Of course If you don't experiment outside of your past experiences you will never improve. As I said earlier there's nothing wrong with going for a fish whenever you feel like it and if you let a bit of software talk you out of a fishing opportunity well that's just plain dumb. It is however smart to learn from past experience if you wish to improve and especially if you have any kind of competitive spirit (as many of us do)

phew - sorry for the long speil, hard to answer that in a short response!

Cheers
Tony

If you weren't rtying to sell your product then this entire shamozal would be laughable.

Why make something simple so bloody complex;)

[TonyM]

If you weren't rtying to sell your product then this entire shamozal would be laughable.

Why make something simple so bloody complex;)


Firstly 2manylures - I'm not trying to sell it I simply asked if people would like to participate in a beta trial for free! If you refer to Pats original post he was asking for info on other software out there.

Secondly if you actually read the response I made to your comments it is my intention if at all possible to make the application "freeware" which basically doesn't require any "selling", however you do need feedback from your intended audience if it is to be of any use to them ... ( and you obviously aren't the intended audience) :D

As to why make something simple so complex - the level of complexity you wish to put into fishing is up to you, I certainly don't begrudge anyone from going fishing whenever and however they like.

There are however a large number of people who enjoy refining their fishing skills rather than simply do what they've always done - if this is you then fine no-one forces you to do any different, however likewise I feel you shouldn't begrudge others who aim to learn and try new things ;)

[2manylures]

Firstly 2manylures - I'm not trying to sell it I simply asked if people would like to participate in a beta trial for free! If you refer to Pats original post he was asking for info on other software out there.

Secondly if you actually read the response I made to your comments it is my intention if at all possible to make the application "freeware" which basically doesn't require any "selling", however you do need feedback from your intended audience if it is to be of any use to them ... ( and you obviously aren't the intended audience) :D

As to why make something simple so complex - the level of complexity you wish to put into fishing is up to you, I certainly don't begrudge anyone from going fishing whenever and however they like.

There are however a large number of people who enjoy refining their fishing skills rather than simply do what they've always done - if this is you then fine no-one forces you to do any different, however likewise I feel you shouldn't begrudge others who aim to learn and try new things ;)

Tony SAID: basically lots of people liked using it but unfortunately only a very small percentage (who will get a free upgrade to version 2) bothered to pay for it. I can understand it as there was no real barrier to using it as I hate crippleware (software that stops working unless you pay)



I've already mentioned each to their own, i don't begrudge that either.

I'm pointing out the other side of the story.

My point is, the collecting of all this "data" is a total waste of time which is a proven fact by those who've previously spent many yrs in doing so trying to predict best/better/bad/worst times to go fishing.

If the collecting of data & then using this data was an invaluable asset to any angler the majority of the angling population would have been doing/using the system in "whatever format" for decades.

They don't. It's useless worthless time wasting crap. Been there done that ove 12yr period & it doesn't show any links of relevance on a single waterway that you could call conclusive.

Because you catch a fish with certain statistic data collated one day does not mean that you will even encounter fish in the same place the next time you go with the same statistics showing, no matter how exact & precise you are with collating. Fish change diet such as we do, when they feel like it not when collated statistical data tells them too. The same can be said with moving from area to area. Diet & moving go hand in hand along with some other variables BUT none of which can be used to pinpoint fish from collecting data & using such for this purpose.

Once again each to there own especially if you have more time & money than you know what to do with.

[TonyM]

Tony SAID: basically lots of people liked using it but unfortunately only a very small percentage (who will get a free upgrade to version 2) bothered to pay for it. I can understand it as there was no real barrier to using it as I hate crippleware (software that stops working unless you pay)


I think it makes a little more sense if you include the entire quote.


Hi Didley, sorry it's not currently for sale as I withdrew version 1 from the market after it failed as a shareware application - basically lots of people liked using it but unfortunately only a very small percentage (who will get a free upgrade to version 2) bothered to pay for it. I can understand it as there was no real barrier to using it as I hate crippleware (software that stops working unless you pay)

Not sure how it will be marketed as yet but I have a few ideas, however on this forum is not the appropriate place to talk about business so safest bet would be to keep an eye on ausfish and when the software is ready I'll arrange with Steve and co. to advertise it on the ausfish site (where else!) :) Although I still don't get your point I'm afraid? (I made no comment to selling - merely marketing. What would be the use of spending time on it if I didn't let people know how to get it?) One of the ideas I was referring to involves the software being "freeware" which reduces the support overhead and makes it a more realistic proposition for me to re-release the software for those who wish to use it, without the overhead of maintaining a support network, website, etc.

I'm sorry to hear that you've found collecting data over 12 years to be a waste of time, I know plenty of others who have come to different conclusions.

As you say to each their own, although simply because this failed for you does not mean it does not or cannot work.

I think your comments may have held a lot more weight if you had started them with "in my opinion" rather than claiming it to be fact.

An example of this would be:

These things have been around in one form or another for well over 15yrs & all have been dismal failures.
Most who have kept logs will tell you that the information gathered is {b}asically useless & those who believe hard enough only confuse themselves & become worse anglers than prior too.
Don't waste your money or your time would be reasonably good advice.http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/grin.gif
You then go on to say:

I'm no expert either when it comes to these programs, don't profess to be.

How do you know all have been dismal failures?
How many users have you spoken to?

I know I spoken to quite a few hundred over the last 7 years or so and many have had a lot of success using both manual systems and various software applications.

How can you speak on behalf of most fisherman that have kept a log?

How many variables did you take into account? The ones that I used in version 1 were based on feedback from literally hundreds of experienced fishers as to what variables they felt influenced their fishing.

I certainly would never claim that simply using statistics will catch you fish, although I will confidently state that if you approach fishing with an open mind and are prepared to look for patterns that do emerge over time you can most definately increase the consistency of your results.


If the collecting of data & then using this data was an invaluable asset to any angler the majority of the angling population would have been doing/using the system in "whatever format" for decades.
I hate to be the one to tell you, however many fishermen have been keeping log data for many decades, some of which I have seen that were handed from father to son and proved invaluable.

Anyway at the end of the day I have to thank you, as hopefully now you have helped other fishers consider that there might be other factors to consider to help them improve their results! :)

Cheers
Tony

[wadeo]

gday catfish55. I started my diaries 9yrs ago and can say interpreted right it has improved my fishing 1000%. Record anything of relevence ie tide, moon, baro, spot you caught them, date, time, air temp, water temp, size, weight, bait used everything will begin to make sence as time passes. 3 yrs it took me of recording trips till it started being useful. I still keep entries every trip as you'll never stop learning new things about the area's you fish. Of coarse this is just what has worked for me and am the first to admit i have alot to learn.
regards wadeo

[2manylures]

TONY,
I had many a long discussion regarding this very subject with Rod Harrison & Steve Starling a number of yrs ago over a few beers along with quite a number of other very prominant anglers who all had the same "end of day" conclusion. I have spoken to everyday blokes & women anglers who have done this sort of thing & only a very few will say it's beneficial.

I know many who've researched & collated for up to 26yrs & MOST have the same opinion. It simply isn't viable, it confuses most, takes there minds of what they initially took up angling for in the 1st instance & in many cases quite a number give away fishing through lack of interest due to absolute confusion because of so called technological advancments such as this very subject.

These are facts not fiction & if you disagree then please show me with factual information/evidence where this system can be advantageous.



WADEO; Did you ever stop to think that you as an angler have improved within yourself?

You cannot definately tell me that your collated date will put you onto fish on any given day, after all after 9 yrs of recording you must have data for every different scenareo.

[wadeo]

TONY,
I had many a long discussion regarding this very subject with Rod Harrison & Steve Starling a number of yrs ago over a few beers along with quite a number of other very prominant anglers who all had the same "end of day" conclusion. I have spoken to everyday blokes & women anglers who have done this sort of thing & only a very few will say it's beneficial.

I know many who've researched & collated for up to 26yrs & MOST have the same opinion. It simply isn't viable, it confuses most, takes there minds of what they initially took up angling for in the 1st instance & in many cases quite a number give away fishing through lack of interest due to absolute confusion because of so called technological advancments such as this very subject.

These are facts not fiction & if you disagree then please show me with factual information/evidence where this system can be advantageous.



WADEO; Did you ever stop to think that you as an angler have improved within yourself?

You cannot definately tell me that your collated date will put you onto fish on any given day, after all after 9 yrs of recording you must have data for every different scenareo.
Its not a 100% acurate and yes obviously your skill levels get better and better with every trip. In a way a diary can be more useful as a reference especially when your skill levels get better at knowing when to go. Lets say for example if i was chasing amberjack in june on the banks a good heads up which works for me is previous years entries on these species which ground i fished and when. Which will give me an indication of where to start looking for them. I use this method every time i go fishing and again not 100% accurate as dates are really irelevent except to say the lunar period of that date which will be diferent each year for that month. I totaly value your opinion as to say that you think they are a waste of time. I disagree in that it is very useful for me.
regards wadeo

[TonyM]

Hi again 2ML

I believe you raise some valid points in this last post.

To keep a log faithfully of every fishing trip involves a lot of dedication and is most certainly something that is not everyones cup of tea. The same applies regardless of whether you record it on scraps of paper, in the almanac, or using software. (although software makes it far easier to analyse the data)

You mention Harro and Steve Starling, both of whom are well known in the fishing fraternity, how do you think they became as experienced as they are today? I believe that we all learn through experience, some of us do it as second nature without even seeming to try, whilst others need a more formal approach to put the pieces together.

I hope you would agree with me that at the end of the day, getting better at fishing involves learning more about the behaviour of fish specific to differing locations, conditions and techniques?

I mentioned earlier that some people have an exceptional memory and basically they keep a log without realising it! Guys that fish as long and often as Harro for instance I imagine will see these patterns over time regardless of keeping a log as they get to see repeated scenarios far more often than most of us. This plus willingness to try new things that others might deem to be crazy seem to be what breaks new ground in learning about how to catch fish.

Broad examples that might seem obvious to many of us include things such as fishing shallower waters in impoundments in winter as that tends to be where the bait and the fish are, taking it a step further can be things such as learning to watch the behaviour of birds as they can show us where the bait (and the fish) are in both fresh and salt water. Because we know these things it seems obvious, however because of the many variables in fishing, they are not necessarily things that many people would notice unless they get to see the pattern emerging (or get told)

Fishermen that are prepared to try different techniques when conditions change occaisionally happen upon a technique/approach that improves their ability to catch fish in that scenario. Sometimes if we are not paying attention the change can be so subtle that we don't pick it at the time (e.g. rapid change in temperature, or barometric pressure, solunar times, wind change, etc etc etc) it could even be a combination of those things.

A lot of the time we can learn by listening intently to the likes of Harro who undoubtedly is an innovator and knows far more on the subject than many of us would ever dream of knowing. You'd obviously be mad if you didn't.

However, that doesn't mean we should turn our brains off when we are on the water and not try new things ourselves and get outside our comfort zone. If we do that occaisionally we might just learn something for ourselves and what a great feeling that is.

You also mentioned earlier that to reach a point where you have sufficient data to make it worthwhile can take years and that is true, although along the way you can see patterns beginning to emerge that occaisionally will back up what previously may have been only a hunch, or a different concept that you have no personal experience with.

One example that has proved very beneficial to me in terms of improving my fishing has been to solve (at least for me personally) the question of whether solunar times have an impact on fishing. My answer is undoubtedly yes as keeping a log has enabled me to see definate increases in catches at these times, obviously you need to be in the right location and other variables come into play, and to be fair you need to also fish outside of these times to get a true feel for what is happening.

You may well disagree (you wouldn't be the first) however this has helped me to improve my effectiveness at fishing and whilst I don't limit my fishing to those times I do make sure I don't waste key times motoring around - I generally fish hard well before and after those times, however the hottest bite tends to be around a 30 minute window either side of those times, even if I do catch fish at other times during the outing. (putting on flak jacket now) :D

That was probably a controversial example, however as I said for me personally that has worked well and without keeping a record I wouldn't have been able to decide whether it really makes a difference. What works for one person doesn't necessarily work for the next so please don't take me as saying that's what everyone should do - we all have our own beliefs when it comes to fishing and that's cool

At the end of the day I really don't care if people want to keep a log or not - I know that some like to and as such have created some software to allow that. Whether any individual sees it as being worth their time is up to them. If anyone felt that doing this would make them want to give up fishing well obviously they just shouldn't consider it.

I do respect everyones right to an opinion, so maybe we should agree to disagree?

Once again Pat, sorry that we seem to have hijacked your thread, at the very least it's been an interesting discussion, even if lively at times! :)

Cheers
Tony

[TheRealAndy]

I know a few very successful commercial fishermen that keep logs.

[spindles]

Wake up tonym i think 2manylures is using a wooden spoon to get more information from you . if you dont have logs you would still be using a hand spear.
spindles

[Vindicator]

Hey Pat, is the program you've tried the one thats advertised in bush n beach? I have thought about trying that one out and am interested if it it the same one.

Cheers
Kezza

[bushbeachboy]

I'm interested Tony. I'll send you a pm.
Cheers

[Beeracudda]

Hey 2manylures I'll see you out on the reef fishn for Mac's off the bottom next winter! ;)

[2manylures]

Hi again 2ML

I believe you raise some valid points in this last post.

To keep a log faithfully of every fishing trip involves a lot of dedication and is most certainly something that is not everyones cup of tea. The same applies regardless of whether you record it on scraps of paper, in the almanac, or using software. (although software makes it far easier to analyse the data)

You mention Harro and Steve Starling, both of whom are well known in the fishing fraternity, how do you think they became as experienced as they are today? I believe that we all learn through experience, some of us do it as second nature without even seeming to try, whilst others need a more formal approach to put the pieces together.

I hope you would agree with me that at the end of the day, getting better at fishing involves learning more about the behaviour of fish specific to differing locations, conditions and techniques?

I mentioned earlier that some people have an exceptional memory and basically they keep a log without realising it! Guys that fish as long and often as Harro for instance I imagine will see these patterns over time regardless of keeping a log as they get to see repeated scenarios far more often than most of us. This plus willingness to try new things that others might deem to be crazy seem to be what breaks new ground in learning about how to catch fish.

Broad examples that might seem obvious to many of us include things such as fishing shallower waters in impoundments in winter as that tends to be where the bait and the fish are, taking it a step further can be things such as learning to watch the behaviour of birds as they can show us where the bait (and the fish) are in both fresh and salt water. Because we know these things it seems obvious, however because of the many variables in fishing, they are not necessarily things that many people would notice unless they get to see the pattern emerging (or get told)

Fishermen that are prepared to try different techniques when conditions change occaisionally happen upon a technique/approach that improves their ability to catch fish in that scenario. Sometimes if we are not paying attention the change can be so subtle that we don't pick it at the time (e.g. rapid change in temperature, or barometric pressure, solunar times, wind change, etc etc etc) it could even be a combination of those things.

A lot of the time we can learn by listening intently to the likes of Harro who undoubtedly is an innovator and knows far more on the subject than many of us would ever dream of knowing. You'd obviously be mad if you didn't.

However, that doesn't mean we should turn our brains off when we are on the water and not try new things ourselves and get outside our comfort zone. If we do that occaisionally we might just learn something for ourselves and what a great feeling that is.

You also mentioned earlier that to reach a point where you have sufficient data to make it worthwhile can take years and that is true, although along the way you can see patterns beginning to emerge that occaisionally will back up what previously may have been only a hunch, or a different concept that you have no personal experience with.

One example that has proved very beneficial to me in terms of improving my fishing has been to solve (at least for me personally) the question of whether solunar times have an impact on fishing. My answer is undoubtedly yes as keeping a log has enabled me to see definate increases in catches at these times, obviously you need to be in the right location and other variables come into play, and to be fair you need to also fish outside of these times to get a true feel for what is happening.

You may well disagree (you wouldn't be the first) however this has helped me to improve my effectiveness at fishing and whilst I don't limit my fishing to those times I do make sure I don't waste key times motoring around - I generally fish hard well before and after those times, however the hottest bite tends to be around a 30 minute window either side of those times, even if I do catch fish at other times during the outing. (putting on flak jacket now) :D

That was probably a controversial example, however as I said for me personally that has worked well and without keeping a record I wouldn't have been able to decide whether it really makes a difference. What works for one person doesn't necessarily work for the next so please don't take me as saying that's what everyone should do - we all have our own beliefs when it comes to fishing and that's cool

At the end of the day I really don't care if people want to keep a log or not - I know that some like to and as such have created some software to allow that. Whether any individual sees it as being worth their time is up to them. If anyone felt that doing this would make them want to give up fishing well obviously they just shouldn't consider it.

I do respect everyones right to an opinion, so maybe we should agree to disagree?

Once again Pat, sorry that we seem to have hijacked your thread, at the very least it's been an interesting discussion, even if lively at times! :)

Cheers
Tony

Tony & Others,
I’m not trying to be or fire anyone up, simply giving the other side of the story. Here’s an example from freshwater.

In March 1993 I fished Lake Mulwala {Vic/NSW border} caught & released 18 Cod for my two days fishing. I did miss quite a number of Cod also.

This was to get an insight into the lake & the fish I would be targeting exactly 4 weeks later when I would be fishing the Invitational Mulwala Classic.

As it turned out the conditions were exactly the same for the competition weekend, Moon, BP, wind, temp etc all the same.
However the fishing was entirely different with 3 fish caught & released with 8 missed. Totally different & this was what led to having these conversations that I mentioned earlier.

Having said that, & from what we know, Murray Cod are a very territorial species.

On what has been mentioned in this thread thus far relating to the wide & varied types of conditions related to what anglers regard as key factors you would think that a territorial species would be a prime example to use in order to try & find some justification for keeping logs.

Although I’ve only mentioned one example of same conditions relating to this topic my records & many others show there are very few similarities in the number of fish caught &/or missed fishing same/near grounds in same/similar conditions.

I will also apologise for the hijack as it wasn’t my intention. My intention was to point out the other side of the debate {long standing}. It can be fun keeping logs & making comparisons but it should not be what we use to go fishing or give ourselves false hopes. Fishing & catching fish is relatively simple, why make it so complex when there is no relevant need or justification for doing so? It does only confuse people/anglers & has the ability to take away some if not a great deal of the pleasure we derive from this wonderful pastime we all love.

The best advice I could give anyone who wants to target a specific species would be to go to the library & study the species. Learn as much as you can about the actual fish. This will play a far greater role in your success as an angler than the keeping of climatic logs etc.

Kindest Regards................;D

[2manylures]

Hey 2manylures I'll see you out on the reef fishn for Mac's off the bottom next winter! ;)

Only if you bring your logs :o Not the bloody REDGUM either ;D

Don't want to come all that way to go home fishless ;)

Goodonya! :-X 8-) ::)

[fish-n-dive]

Boy's, I think both sides of the discussion have been fairly well covered. lets move on shall we?

I for one am interested in a fishing log and am looking forward to trialling it. No one is asking anyone to do anything else.

[davez104]

I would bet both my testes that the conditions where not exactly the same for your prefish and the tournament. But seeing as how you don't keep detailed logs, you'll never know. Could have been extra boat traffic in particular areas that changed the fishing, cold snap during the 4 weeks, hot spell, rain, changed water clarity/salinity/pH, whatever, but there would have been something that had changed. Maybe you were not intuitive enough to pick up on it, I know I'm not a lot of the time.

As has been said, if people didn't take notice of past events/trends then none of us would catch fish regularly. Haven't seen anyone fishing our local creek for Red Emperor lately, why? Because past trends indicate that the reefs are a better bet.

I know I'm just rambling but the whole point is that most people keep logs, even if it is only mentally. Tony is just offering a way that we can record our observations without having to rely on fading memories.

Dave.

[Steve B]

I would bet both my testes that the conditions where not exactly the same for your prefish and the tournament. But seeing as how you don't keep detailed logs, you'll never know. Could have been extra boat traffic in particular areas that changed the fishing, cold snap during the 4 weeks, hot spell, rain, changed water clarity/salinity/pH, whatever, but there would have been something that had changed. Maybe you were not intuitive enough to pick up on it, I know I'm not a lot of the time.

As has been said, if people didn't take notice of past events/trends then none of us would catch fish regularly. Haven't seen anyone fishing our local creek for Red Emperor lately, why? Because past trends indicate that the reefs are a better bet.

I know I'm just rambling but the whole point is that most people keep logs, even if it is only mentally. Tony is just offering a way that we can record our observations without having to rely on fading memories.

Dave.

two many lures, by simply prefishing for a comp you are effectively creating data and a log in your head.

EXACTLY Dave, One thing from 2ML' post indicated 2 MASSIVE differences.

1. - it was one month later!! that is a difference...a big OBVIOUS one.

As Dave said, there could possibly be hundreds of different factors that could have changed the fishing conditions...

2. my guess boating pressure, noise from all the boats in the comp would have been the main factor, its a major factor in all comps......theres 2 obvious differences note without even being there.

I keep a log. not very detailed, but it works for me. Probably one of the best fisherman on this site (he's also a respected fishing guide) has more data than he can poke a stick at......the main factor is he knows how to use it properly and what to look for in the data.

Steve

[2manylures]

I would bet both my testes that the conditions where not exactly the same for your prefish and the tournament. But seeing as how you don't keep detailed logs, you'll never know. Could have been extra boat traffic in particular areas that changed the fishing, cold snap during the 4 weeks, hot spell, rain, changed water clarity/salinity/pH, whatever, but there would have been something that had changed. Maybe you were not intuitive enough to pick up on it, I know I'm not a lot of the time.

As has been said, if people didn't take notice of past events/trends then none of us would catch fish regularly. Haven't seen anyone fishing our local creek for Red Emperor lately, why? Because past trends indicate that the reefs are a better bet.

I know I'm just rambling but the whole point is that most people keep logs, even if it is only mentally. Tony is just offering a way that we can record our observations without having to rely on fading memories.

Dave.


Dave,

The BLOODY CSIRO & BUREAU OF METEOROLOGY do not have the combined resources to monitor every fishing spot all day every day.

There is no combined departments on this bloody planet that can do what you say may have been missed because I was not INTUITIVE ENOUGH

Don't shoot your mouth off regarding your niagras Dave!

ONE DAY someone will take them from you.

[2manylures]

two many lures, by simply prefishing for a comp you are effectively creating data and a log in your head.

EXACTLY Dave, One thing from 2ML' post indicated 2 MASSIVE differences.

1. - it was one month later!! that is a difference...a big OBVIOUS one.

As Dave said, there could possibly be hundreds of different factors that could have changed the fishing conditions...

2. my guess boating pressure, noise from all the boats in the comp would have been the main factor, its a major factor in all comps......theres 2 obvious differences note without even being there.

I keep a log. not very detailed, but it works for me. Probably one of the best fisherman on this site (he's also a respected fishing guide) has more data than he can poke a stick at......the main factor is he knows how to use it properly and what to look for in the data.

Steve

All I can say without being too insulting is:

Perhaps you should read everything that has been posted on this now hyjacked topic before you even think about commenting.

You have now idea of what you are talking about & I'm actually embarrassed by reading your ridiculous comments.

In your spare time you could go & count the boats on different waterways & record them for log keepers.




TONY; The highlighted crap is exactly what I mean when I say keeping logs confuses people.

[Steve B]

All I can say without being too insulting is:

Perhaps you should read everything that has been posted on this now hyjacked topic before you even think about commenting.

You have now idea of what you are talking about & I'm actually embarrassed by reading your ridiculous comments.

In your spare time you could go & count the boats on different waterways & record them for log keepers.




TONY; The highlighted crap is exactly what I mean when I say keeping logs confuses people.

2manylures.

I've read the whole lot. I was ONLY refering to you small post about the comp and your assumptions that all was the same on 2 seperate occassions at the same lake....clearly they were not.

What is confusing about boating pressure affecting fishing, or the time of year?? A 10year old kid can work that out....without a log!!

I do agree with you about going to the libary and studying the fish your targeting. We all have our opinions. we are all idiots for keeping logs. I will keep catching fish using info I have colated over the years, my memory wont suffice alone.
Dont worry about insulting me. The only time I have been insulted is by someone I have respect for.

Steve

[catfish55]

well as for going and fishing in one area and catching fish like you did and then 2ml's expecting to go back and repeat it.... and not getting a result, well that just makes the log agument stronger for me anyway. because without taking several trips over several years, with several informed information and then comparing traits , how else would you know why the fish were bitting that day and not the last time ???? and even then thers always things that just can't be explained , but with a log i think it'd have to make you a better fisherman than somone who doesn't have one , well that is unless you have a photogenic memory
anyway 2ml's i get you opinion . but what i'd like to know is what other people are using as a log for saltwater fishing?? especialy computer, or if they use a book then how do they compere different traits....pat

[davez104]

The BLOODY CSIRO & BUREAU OF METEOROLOGY do not have the combined resources to monitor every fishing spot all day every day.

There is no combined departments on this bloody planet that can do what you say may have been missed because I was not INTUITIVE ENOUGH



I wasn't even going to comment on this thread, poor old catfish was just chasing some advice on other logging software available. He wasn't looking to be told how stupid he is for keeping a log, but some people who maybe don't know any better insist on dragging the thread to the dogs, so what the hell, may as well chip in hey.

I wasn't saying you have to go to extremes in measuring stuff, but it's handy to keep a note of conditions, not only at the time you are fishing, but also in the lead up. I'ts not hard to do given the amount of weather sites that you could look up on the net these days. Just as an example, if I were to go fishing for Barra next week and the temp was 25C after a week of 30 degree plus days, and then go again at the same moon phase in August next year after a week of 15 degree days, but it was still 25C on the day, the fishing would be a lot different.

Not going to waste any more time dragging this thread down, suffice it to say that you're wrong in regards to logs being pointless. You've even said it yourself by advising someone on barometric pressures for fishing, how the hell would you know without taking note of past events?

Maybe you were born with more knowledge than the rest of us?

Dave.

Oh, I'm sure my niagras a safe in this particular instance.

[2manylures]

:o Had you blokes have read this properly you would noticed where I mentioned the fact that I kept detailed Logs for 12 years.:o

Having said that {again}:-/ & you missing it then I really can't see how keeping logs is going to help you when you miss the facts.;)

[reidy]

My feeling re logs are as follow,
Have kept both fresh and salt logs for over 20+ years (started as a teenager on the Georgetown (tas) pier)
Have found the colation of info to be rather usefull at times even if its only for reference.
The thing i have learnt from my logs is that the relevent information is retained in the mind via the logs written form.Logs are to me ONLY a reference that is variable,very variable at times but the benificial info learnt is then transfered from the writen log to the memeory.
Hope i havent lost anybody if so sorry.
Cheers
Reidy