"Engine Re-Builds for ETEC"

[Splash]

Hi Team,

During my first day in my new home, Darwin, today - I ventured into the Darwin Boat Show and spoke with both BRP and Yamaha about their respective flagship outboards.

The etec rep said exactly what I expected - praise and all good stuff for the etecs. Better weight savings, hole shot, etc... A comment "...tradtional 4 strokers are still uneasy about making the swtich to the newer ETECs...".

When I spoke to the Yamaha rep - I asked him why I should considera Yami over the ETECs. He replied with a comment "..he has heard of many young etecs undergoing engine rebuilds...and I should buy anything other than an ETEC...."

I am a bit shocked at the Yami comment - Who else has heard about engine rebuilds to newer ETECS?

I don't wanna start another war on this topic - just seeking clarity on this situation..

SPlash

[bushbeachboy]

Take it all with a grain of salt mate. Boat sales people will say anything, a bit like car sales people. If there was any actual evidence of a major fault with either type of motor, we would have heard about it long and loud by now.

[pump 'em hard]

First i have heard of it. we had a 75 ETEC on our allison 5 and it was absolutely brilliant never had any troubles with it at all. One thing that is recomended is drop the leg at around 150hrs as aparently they can become very stuck
Cheers
Dave

[Splash]

Dave,

Are u saying the impeller or the actual leg itself becomes very stuck or something else?

Splash

[disorderly]

Dave,

Are u saying the impeller or the actual leg itself becomes very stuck or something else?

Splash

Think he means the bolts holding the leg on splash...think some of these mechanics just need something else to winge about.

As for the yammy dealer telling you stories about E-Tecs...well you wouldn't believe the crap that came out of the Mercury dealers mouth when I was after comparative quotes on the Optimax(despite me having researched them on US forums and found that there were problems with the early opti's)...

I get real turned off when a dealer, instead of talking up his product, decides to spend most of his sales talk bagging out another product......

IMO splash, if I were you I would just buy a new equivalent of the carby 2 stroke you have or a cheap,late model 2 stroke that some sucker is selling because he must have a new Tech motor.....It will go for years without a problem.
For anyone that does a 100 hours or less a year I just cant see the value in either a DI 2 stroke or a 4 stroke.

But it does seem like you are leaning towards new technology so you will be the first to know if my leg bolts get stuck in 6 months or so at my 2.5 year first service. http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/wink.gifhttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/rolleyes.gif

Scott

[whatscracken]

I reckon its just salesman being salesman, trying the old scare tactic to get you sucked in.

Both engines have been around long enough and have proven records, I guess it comes down to personal choice.

[Jabba_]

I would doubt there have been a few E-tec rebuilt early in the life, as well as a few Yammies, Merc's, Honda's and Suzuki's.....

There's a lemon in every batch.... No outboard brand is immune

[ozbee]

there all so good that they don't have mechanical or spare part section in there shops

[disorderly]

there all so good that they don't have mechanical or spare part section in there shops

LOL ozbee....don't we all wish that were true...;D;D;D

[Splash]

As for the yammy dealer telling you stories about E-Tecs...well you wouldn't believe the crap that came out of the Mercury dealers mouth when I was after comparative quotes on the Optimax(despite me having researched them on US forums and found that there were problems with the early opti's)...
Scott

Actually, I was also told that a Mecury Dealer recently crushed a build batch of Optis before anyone found out they all leaned burned with head stuffed.

Anyway, I am sure I can land a good deal on anything I want now - that the market seems depressed.

I may hang off next year for the price to drop on the 130 ETEC....

SPlash

[sea raider]

In my opinion, any salesman that has to bag the oppositions product in order to sell his isn't worth his salt.

All he is doing is scaremongering, instead, he should be selling the benefits of his motor over the other, it doesnt matter what you are selling, there is always a benefit.

Cheers

Geoff

[ozbee]

new motors new ideas they seem to come out of the woodwork as sales drop and they compete for the lions share so spin the crystal ball what's new today maybe old technology tomorrow. so what do we see know

Honda cant rush fast enough to lighten up and efi it four strokes

merc had to rush and turbo charge it motors for the horse power rush( which made it undesirable to some heavy boat owners

Yamaha known to have cooling problems with some models water jackets passages

suzki great fuel economy but some models are pretty gutless

tohatsu does any body actually buy them over 70 hp

maybe we will see the end of the two stroke v four stroke with the introduction of di fourstroke

maybe di two stroke will take over with the ability to run on muiltipule fuel types eg alchol diesel palm and vegetable oil

any ones else prediction most welcome

[ozbee]

last of all you can bet that trade in prices will drop all round

[Blackened]

G'day

My prediction?? a propulsion system that runs on salt water.

How? I don't know, but that is irrelevant.

If the dream is big enough, the facts do not count

Dave

[TimiBoy]

merc had to rush and turbo charge it motors for the horse power rush( which made it undesirable to some heavy boat owners



Actually they supercharged...;D;D;D

Next step may be diesel technology, I suspect. But current DI 2stroke and 4 stroke has a long way to go in terms of development. There's a lot more power to be had from the current platforms - much cheaper to develop than totally new technology.

I wonder also whether rotaries will get a flag?

Cheers,

Tim

[Scott nthQld]

Never believe anything a salesman tells you, they exaggerate everything about their own product when telling you how good it is and exaggerate the negatives of others, once they find something negative about a competitor, they'll grab it and run with it until the new improved models come out, most times longer. And lets face it, every brand has its problems and every brand will have had at least one dodgy engine come off the production line that needed some major work after very little use, but their respective dealers won't say anything about that do they? If every engine came off the production line perfectly, ran perfectly 110% of the time, there wouldn't be a need for a warranty, and they all offer them.

The best people to talk to when purchasing a new motor IMO is the mechanics who work on the engine's, not the dealer mechanics who will only ever see one, maybe 2 brands in their work, but the others, who work on everything, they will perhaps be the most unbiased of the lot.

Then there's sorting through the bull plop, owners of a particular motor spruik about, trying to figure out, what's true, what's exagerated and who's full of shit. Anyone that doesn't have any loyalties to any brand, but it looking for the best deal and engine they can get for their hard earned is in for a tough task, often there's a lot of crap to sort through, and very little time to do it in. Even Ausfish, though can be very informative, can be more of a hindrance than help when it comes to outboards, nearly every yammie owner will say yammie is great, as will etec, honda, suzi, merc owners (who will also put shit on every other outboard out there), making the task much more difficult.

[bushbeachboy]

new motors new ideas they seem to come out of the woodwork as sales drop and they compete for the lions share so spin the crystal ball what's new today maybe old technology tomorrow. so what do we see know

Honda cant rush fast enough to lighten up and efi it four strokes

merc had to rush and turbo charge it motors for the horse power rush( which made it undesirable to some heavy boat owners

Yamaha known to have cooling problems with some models water jackets passages

suzki great fuel economy but some models are pretty gutless

tohatsu does any body actually buy them over 70 hp

maybe we will see the end of the two stroke v four stroke with the introduction of di fourstroke

maybe di two stroke will take over with the ability to run on muiltipule fuel types eg alchol diesel palm and vegetable oil

any ones else prediction most welcome

You can already buy an Evinrude, based on the etec, that will run on differing fuels. Originally developed for the US military, will run on petrol and various aviation fuels (from memory), not sure about diesel. Saw a snippet about it in a recent fishing mag.

[Outsider1]

We have yet to see a technology peak in current formats.

True DI is just starting to appear at the luxury end of the car market. Porsche has just released its new models with all new DI motors. 10% more power, 15% less fuel consumption. Audi, BMW and Merc are just starting to dribble out their DI models.

Forced induction is also being used extensively, both turbo and supercharging. The VW Twincharge Golf (you know that ad with the green slurpy!) is a 1.4 litre 4 cylinder with both a turbo and a supercharger to give the power of a 2 litre motor but retains the economy of a 1.4 litre.

BMW's 135i/335i motor has won engine of the year for the last 2 years. It is a twin turbo 3.0litre 6 cylinder putting out 225kw and maximum torque of 400nm at an incredible 1,300 rpms (max power is at 5,800 rpms!). It has no turbo lag and it pulls like a train from just above idle, and runs like a turbine!

Diesels are typically very weighty by the nature of the compression levels their blocks need to contain and this limits their marine applications to larger sizes, but there is gradual progress in power improvements and new alloy construction and I think there will be more appearing in the 150hp and above categories in the near future. Diesel technology can also run on alternative fuels such as bio, oils, and gas so has some other development possibilities.

The E-Tec injectors apparently enable them to be adapted to run on other fuels but the power output is somewhat limited at this stage (55hp only). Maybe has more in it but evinrude is not saying at this stage;

http://gov.evinrude.com/

Rotary technology is just about dead. Mazda holds onto it as a novelty, but there has been little in the way of serious development for some years and fuel consumption is a major weakness of rotarys.

Hybrids have possibilities for marine applications I guess. The weight of the required battery packs would probably limit applications to larger trailer boats, say 6 to 7m up. But the electric motor is not unsuited to marine type applications as they produce max torque from tick over and running them at constant rpms is efficient.

Cheers

Dave

[kizza1]

i know its probably a little off topic but mercury also has engines that can run on different fuels.

i think forced induction will be the way of the future with outboards as it is with cars.

maybe even reinventing the 2 stage gearbox for outboards or cvt transmitions

[FNQCairns]

We have yet to see a technology peak in current formats.

True DI is just starting to appear at the luxury end of the car market. Porsche has just released its new models with all new DI motors. 10% more power, 15% less fuel consumption. Audi, BMW and Merc are just starting to dribble out their DI models.

Forced induction is also being used extensively, both turbo and supercharging. The VW Twincharge Golf (you know that ad with the green slurpy!) is a 1.4 litre 4 cylinder with both a turbo and a supercharger to give the power of a 2 litre motor but retains the economy of a 1.4 litre.

BMW's 135i/335i motor has won engine of the year for the last 2 years. It is a twin turbo 3.0litre 6 cylinder putting out 225kw and maximum torque of 400nm at an incredible 1,300 rpms (max power is at 5,800 rpms!). It has no turbo lag and it pulls like a train from just above idle, and runs like a turbine!

Diesels are typically very weighty by the nature of the compression levels their blocks need to contain and this limits their marine applications to larger sizes, but there is gradual progress in power improvements and new alloy construction and I think there will be more appearing in the 150hp and above categories in the near future. Diesel technology can also run on alternative fuels such as bio, oils, and gas so has some other development possibilities.

The E-Tec injectors apparently enable them to be adapted to run on other fuels but the power output is somewhat limited at this stage (55hp only). Maybe has more in it but evinrude is not saying at this stage;

http://gov.evinrude.com/

Rotary technology is just about dead. Mazda holds onto it as a novelty, but there has been little in the way of serious development for some years and fuel consumption is a major weakness of rotarys.

Hybrids have possibilities for marine applications I guess. The weight of the required battery packs would probably limit applications to larger trailer boats, say 6 to 7m up. But the electric motor is not unsuited to marine type applications as they produce max torque from tick over and running them at constant rpms is efficient.

Cheers

Dave

That means it has two separate and distinct turbos, a small one for the lower revs and a bigger one that takes over from it later...I assume.

This would make even a 1.3L engine in a decent family sized petrol car acceptable and use the fuel of a modern 1.5L car to do it...again I assume.

I hate the thought of loosing the larger cars over time.

cheers fnq

[Outsider1]

That means it has two separate and distinct turbos, a small one for the lower revs and a bigger one that takes over from it later...I assume.

This would make even a 1.3L engine in a decent family sized petrol car acceptable and use the fuel of a modern 1.5L car to do it...again I assume.

I hate the thought of loosing the larger cars over time.

cheers fnq

Hi Scott,

yes that is the basic concept and why there is no turbo lag. I was lucky enough to have one for a test drive for a week and loved it!. I ended up with another forced induction motor from Merc and it is just plain awesome.

BMW also have a twin turbo diesel out now called the 3.0sd. Here is a link to a comparison with their single turbo version; 25% more power, 13% more torque, 10% more top end revs and basically the same fuel consumption;

http://www.bmw.com.au/scripts/main.asp?PageID=11768&ModelID=1000061&ModelCategoryID=16&PrimaryModelID=1000128&Screen=ModelSpecs

Cheers

Dave

[bigjimg]

Was it a fellow from the Goldy or WA that invented the orbital engine some years back?I recall that Honda bought this sucker out then shelved the technology.The poor bugger was a bit ahead of his time.Apparently this engine could turn out some pretty impressive HP for it's size and with heaps less moving parts.
And Blackened there is already a vehicle running on saltwater propulsion it is called a surfboard, a big fella in Hawaii THE BIG KAHUNA came up with the idea.
The propulsion comes in all shapes and sizes.chortle chortle.Jim

[Wahoo]

i know its probably a little off topic but mercury also has engines that can run on different fuels.

i think forced induction will be the way of the future with outboards as it is with cars.

maybe even reinventing the 2 stage gearbox for outboards or cvt transmitions

thats right Kizza, merc has the JP outboard finished in a mat black.... been out for a few years now,......................http://www.mercurygovsales.com/technology/optimaxjp.php

[dodgyone]

Was it a fellow from the Goldy or WA that invented the orbital engine some years back?I recall that Honda bought this sucker out then shelved the technology.The poor bugger was a bit ahead of his time.Apparently this engine could turn out some pretty impressive HP for it's size and with heaps less moving parts.
And Blackened there is already a vehicle running on saltwater propulsion it is called a surfboard, a big fella in Hawaii THE BIG KAHUNA came up with the idea.
The propulsion comes in all shapes and sizes.chortle chortle.Jim


Yep, Ralph Sarich from Perth. Made a fair bit out of royalties paid to him by Mercury. Invented and patented a fair bit of the technology that is in the Optimax.

I know a couple of years ago all the Honda dealers were busy telling everyone that the inventer of Optis didnt believe in his own product and was running a Honda.
::)

[Coontakinta]

tohatsu does any body actually buy them over 70 hp





Yep! Sure do and I love it.......well almost :-/

Gotta say i had a bit of a scare when i saw a boat for sale on here i think with a TLDI90 that had recently been rebuilt. I PM'd the seller after the sale as I was keen to find out what the ...... Anyway seems the original owner ran it with the wrong oil, non synthetic, and it burnt off before doing its job. :-/ Dunno how true it is not an oil or mechanical guru, anyway I can see how things like this can be elaborated and turned into why x is crap and y is the way to go.

Maybe there were one or to rebuilds in the E-tecs but the reason behind it could be that the owners didnt do the right thing by them. I can also recall seeing a thread on another site about a TLDI115 having a rebuild after 20hrs, because of water egrees due to a faulty exhaust. Wouldnt say that all TLDI's are crap because of that would you.

I may be heading off on a tangent here, but in my mind Tohatsu make a damn fine motor, I'm just dissapointed in its performance on my hull, they recently found a design flaw in the earlier TLDI's and have had the problem fixed quickly and of course free of charge.

As Noelm has repeatedly said in these type of threads, best to buy from a dealer who has a brand that they will support and who'll support you. That is give you great unbiased service at a reasonable cost and who'll not give you the BS and run around when things arent quite right.

[TheRealAndy]

That means it has two separate and distinct turbos, a small one for the lower revs and a bigger one that takes over from it later...I assume.

cheers fnq

I am not sure that this is totally factual. My understanding is that the golf motor is actually a 2 stroke DI diesel, which means the super charger is actaully called a scavanger, and is not technically a supercharger. Kinda like the big marine diesels. I am probably wrong though :P

[Outsider1]

I am not sure that this is totally factual. My understanding is that the golf motor is actually a 2 stroke DI diesel, which means the super charger is actaully called a scavanger, and is not technically a supercharger. Kinda like the big marine diesels. I am probably wrong though :P

Afraid so TRA, the Twincharge is definitely a petrol motor;

http://www.volkswagen.com.au/vwcms_publish/vwcms/master_public/virtualmaster/en_au/New_Cars/golf/trim_lines/golf_gtsport.html

There are 1.9 and 2.0 litre models in the Golf range that are (single) turbo diesels, maybe you are confusing them?

http://www.volkswagen.com.au/vwcms_publish/etc/medialib/vwcms/virtualmaster/en_au/common/pdf.Par.0012.File.pdf


Cheers

Dave

[Chine]

Afraid so TRA, the Twincharge is definitely a petrol motor;

http://www.volkswagen.com.au/vwcms_publish/vwcms/master_public/virtualmaster/en_au/New_Cars/golf/trim_lines/golf_gtsport.html

There are 1.9 and 2.0 litre models in the Golf range that are (single) turbo diesels, maybe you are confusing them?

http://www.volkswagen.com.au/vwcms_publish/etc/medialib/vwcms/virtualmaster/en_au/common/pdf.Par.0012.File.pdf


Cheers

Dave

Dave,

A work colleague owns both the VW GTi 2.0ltr single turbo ( chipped to 188Kw) & the VW dual charged 1.4 ltr GT. He raves about the GT & it's dual charging.8-)

Clever technology.

[TimiBoy]

This thread really has disappointed me. When I saw the title, I picked up a bucket of snapper heads, and got the popcorn popping!

Now the popcorn's eaten, and the snapper heads are getting pretty smelly. Time to fold up my camp chair and skulk back inside, deeply disappointed. Deeply, deeply disappointed.:-[

Tim

[Chine]

This thread really has disappointed me. When I saw the title, I picked up a bucket of snapper heads, and got the popcorn popping!

Now the popcorn's eaten, and the snapper heads are getting pretty smelly. Time to fold up my camp chair and skulk back inside, deeply disappointed. Deeply, deeply disappointed.:-[

Tim

Tim,

Humble apologies for this digression.........put it down to a moment of weakness.

I will fess up to enjoying my FOUR STROKE motor vehicles in addition to floaty things and electronics.

Throw the snapper heads in a pot, dice up some garlic, onions, ginger & whatever other legume you have stored in the chiller,apply liberal quantities of heat.......pour a glass of red......take five deep breaths...and relax;D .

[robersl]

Hi Team,

During my first day in my new home, Darwin, today - I ventured into the Darwin Boat Show and spoke with both BRP and Yamaha about their respective flagship outboards.

The etec rep said exactly what I expected - praise and all good stuff for the etecs. Better weight savings, hole shot, etc... A comment "...tradtional 4 strokers are still uneasy about making the swtich to the newer ETECs...".

When I spoke to the Yamaha rep - I asked him why I should considera Yami over the ETECs. He replied with a comment "..he has heard of many young etecs undergoing engine rebuilds...and I should buy anything other than an ETEC...."

I am a bit shocked at the Yami comment - Who else has heard about engine rebuilds to newer ETECS?

I don't wanna start another war on this topic - just seeking clarity on this situation..

SPlash

Hi splash
I went to darwin in april barra fishing and there are one or 2 barra guides up there using etec's and have had major drama's with them wether it is due to all the slow trolling or racking up large numbers of hours they do or not i am not sure, but as a warning when i came back home i put up a warning message to all etec user's about it and to watch theres and keep an eye on there motor's and i was bagged out something cronic and accused of causing arguments about etec's and fourstrokes, i know these moto'r have been replaced for the guides by the company as they are still under warranty. and i did not hear this from a dealer i heard it straight from the horses mouth one of the operaters, so without being bitchy i hope it is coming back to bite the a/holes that had a go at me. some people just take things the wrong way al the time

shane

[Splash]

thanks Shane

intersting post.

It is good to hear the good oil from another key user - at ground level and not at rep level.

maybe there is soem truth in what the Yami rep was saying after all.....??? :o

can u PM me the names of these barra guides??

Do u know why these etecs went bad?

Tim - still got those snapper heads ready?

Splash

[robersl]

same as your comment required engine rebuilds no reason why they are not sure but they do a lot of miles and hours in a day in the runoff can be running up to 10-12 hrs a day for 3 months or more at a time maybe a heat related problem i do not know. maybe ok for normal use but can not do the hard yards in the long hours if they fish the mouth of the sth alligator it is a good 90 k's downstream then you troll all day and then back upstream until late in the run off then they do a short run upstream then troll for 10 hrs a day i am no expert i was just passing the info on but some people did not want to hear it i am neither for or against etecs and probaly try 1 myself at some point if given the oppertunity. like any motor you get and bad and use plays a big part

shane

[robersl]

i will try and find names of charter

[Splash]

thanks mate.

can u PM me the names of these barra guides??

Splash

[ozbee]

you must realise Darwin runs mainly of Singapore fuels not uncommon to see four and two strokes run shit up there at times. you can go into any brand of outboard motor mechanic shop and find heads laying around . as emissions get tighter the most common fault is head and piston failure. the main thing is the service plus as in etec if used in hard working environments it should be set at 50 to 1 ratio using synthetic oil. main thing was it was addressed by the company

[FNQCairns]

same as your comment required engine rebuilds no reason why they are not sure but they do a lot of miles and hours in a day in the runoff can be running up to 10-12 hrs a day for 3 months or more at a time maybe a heat related problem i do not know. maybe ok for normal use but can not do the hard yards in the long hours if they fish the mouth of the sth alligator it is a good 90 k's downstream then you troll all day and then back upstream until late in the run off then they do a short run upstream then troll for 10 hrs a day i am no expert i was just passing the info on but some people did not want to hear it i am neither for or against etecs and probaly try 1 myself at some point if given the oppertunity. like any motor you get and bad and use plays a big part

shane

Oooo, Oooo, I know I know - it's that calming word 'ideal' (cue visions of a palm lined and sun drenched tropical beach) coming back re-made and biting the punters on the bum!;D

cheers fnq

[Mindi]

I DONT have an Etec...I have a black 2 stroke...but this sounds as likely as Drop Bears to me.

[ryank]

hey mate.

they should come undone pretty easy, but not always. they can also get stuck on the drivshaft where it goes into the crank. even though they say they are ment to go without beeing touched for 3 years they still recommend getting them serviced yearly. as they use they exact same water pump as any other johnson and gear oil.

[Jabba_]

hey mate.

they should come undone pretty easy, but not always. they can also get stuck on the drivshaft where it goes into the crank. even though they say they are ment to go without beeing touched for 3 years they still recommend getting them serviced yearly. as they use they exact same water pump as any other johnson and gear oil.

Not sure where you get your info from, but as for the gear oil, no it is not the same ol gear oil that Johnson use... It is a special formula that is resistant to salt water.. Not sure on the actual Spec on the gear oil, but I am sure on off the other E-tec guru's will know more then I do.....

As for the water pump, It might look the same as the old one's, but the impeller is more durable...

[disorderly]

hey mate.

they should come undone pretty easy, but not always. they can also get stuck on the drivshaft where it goes into the crank. even though they say they are ment to go without beeing touched for 3 years they still recommend getting them serviced yearly. as they use they exact same water pump as any other johnson and gear oil.

Oh here we go again..another armchair expert that doesn't or has never owned one but thinks he knows everything...
Mate ,if I had a spare snapper head I would be aiming it right at you just now.::)

[Jabba_]

Hi splash
I went to darwin in april barra fishing and there are one or 2 barra guides up there using etec's and have had major drama's with them wether it is due to all the slow trolling or racking up large numbers of hours they do or not i am not sure, but as a warning when i came back home i put up a warning message to all etec user's about it and to watch theres and keep an eye on there motor's and i was bagged out something cronic and accused of causing arguments about etec's and fourstrokes, i know these moto'r have been replaced for the guides by the company as they are still under warranty. and i did not hear this from a dealer i heard it straight from the horses mouth one of the operaters, so without being bitchy i hope it is coming back to bite the a/holes that had a go at me. some people just take things the wrong way al the time

shane
That is all probably true, and I have no doubt to believe you... Question is, did the dealer set up the engine correctly. Were the mtors set to XD100 and running XD50.. That does happen quiet alot, and that will cause the powerhead to blow. Were the E-tec early models (2003-2004).. The first models had a few teathing problems...
I don't expect you to know any of the answers,, just pointing out that the were some problems with the first gen motors, but mostly, incorrect set ups cause most outboard failures.

The Gold Coast City Council has there own survey boat, Noosa Cat with 2 x 150 E-tec's... They have over 1000 hours clocked up on both motors with no failures.....
Myself, I had to have an new injector and EMM at 40hrs... They must off been crook from the very start off it's life, as once they were changed the motor was better then it was brand new..... Simply a great motor to own, hassle free, light on the juice and easy on the ears... 8-)

[Quaker]

If there were so many problems it'd be all over the net. They've pulled them apart after 3000 hours in the U.S & there's been no evidence of wear of fatigue or corrosion.

[Luke G]

No wear after 3000 hours?

[Splash]

all good info guys - thanks.

[disorderly]

all good info guys - thanks.

yep and as usual a bunch of uninformed crap as well.::)

[TimiBoy]

Sweet.

The bucket's nearly empty, and my arm's tired.

Anyone else for a head or two?

Cheers,

Tim

[Splash]

got any stonefish Timmy?

[FNQCairns]

If there were so many problems it'd be all over the net. They've pulled them apart after 3000 hours in the U.S & there's been no evidence of wear of fatigue or corrosion.

On the original oil? lucky they didn't get an oil analysis! there is nothing new in gear lubes, there is nothing new in gear box's. hard facing on gears is strong, although it is only so deep, once it is gone, it is gone. Circulating worn pieces of it for so many hours makes for a nice and abrasive fluid.

Guaranteed the hard facing thickeness would be very low, where if the oil was changed regular it would still be in great condition just like every other outboard box should be at 3000 h and still good enough to get some unknown water inside and still have a serviceable box by the time the problem is found.

Precisely what was true before is still true now unless something changes, when it does we will ALL HEAR about it.

The etec diff lube may be high quality - dunno, but that is the extent of it's magical properties, if the gearbox oil they use in their legs is not made in a big vat and decanted into other bottles destined for use in automobiles/rec-products under a more commonly known brand it would be a standout in marine oil/lubes. The strongest marketing ploy is a single sticker in depth.

cheers fnq

[black runner]

All marine gearbox lubes (not just brp's) claim to have special rust/corrosion and foaming inhibitors etc over standard gear oil. Who knows, but if you get water in the gearbox you still have to fix it no mater what gear oil's in the box.

[Quaker]

On the original oil? lucky they didn't get an oil analysis! there is nothing new in gear lubes, there is nothing new in gear box's. hard facing on gears is strong, although it is only so deep, once it is gone, it is gone. Circulating worn pieces of it for so many hours makes for a nice and abrasive fluid.

Guaranteed the hard facing thickeness would be very low, where if the oil was changed regular it would still be in great condition just like every other outboard box should be at 3000 h and still good enough to get some unknown water inside and still have a serviceable box by the time the problem is found.

Precisely what was true before is still true now unless something changes, when it does we will ALL HEAR about it.

The etec diff lube may be high quality - dunno, but that is the extent of it's magical properties, if the gearbox oil they use in their legs is not made in a big vat and decanted into other bottles destined for use in automobiles/rec-products under a more commonly known brand it would be a standout in marine oil/lubes. The strongest marketing ploy is a single sticker in depth.

cheers fnq


FFS, I didn't say it had done 3000 hours without a service.>:(It was being used in a commercial application, charter boat or pro boat, it had been serviced at 300 hour intervals.
It's on the net somewhere, just google e-tec & scour through the thousands of pages like I did, when I was researching them for reliability before I bought one.

[FNQCairns]

FFS, I didn't say it had done 3000 hours without a service.>:(It was being used in a commercial application, charter boat or pro boat, it had been serviced at 300 hour intervals.
It's on the net somewhere, just google e-tec & scour through the thousands of pages like I did, when I was researching them for reliability before I bought one.

That's what I thought although you didn't say it, it makes sense, 3000 is not a-lot for an outboard leg that didn't get abused or have a fault or let water in, hell no reason they shouldn't go 6k hours quite easily. Prop slip is like a big constant duty clutch shedding torque.

cheers fnq

[marco]

seems as though splash has become famous

http://forums.etecownersgroup.com/tool/post/barnaclebill/vpost?id=2899640

[Splash]

Thanks Marco.

People (including all etec fans) on this forum (and all other related WWW Forums on etec) should understand and accept that there have in fact been issues with earlier etecs (prior to '08) with heads having to be rebuilt (design related and not user setup related) and is indeed acknowledged by BRP/Evinrude dealers here in Australia.

This will not distract me from committing to the ETEC - as long it is 08 or 09 model.

Key reasons - Power to weight ratio and less moving parts.

Splash

[marco]

if you go etec make sure it gets supplied with the icommand gauges , there is a probelm with the older style gauges , first hand experience on that one .

[Splash]

Will do Marco.

Your thoughts - 115HO or the new 130 and why?

Splash

[Quaker]

I would definitely go the 115 H.O, as has already been said, the H.O uses a beefier gearbox, so you'll be getting the same power as the 130 really, give or take, but with a beefier drivetrain.

[Spaniard_King]

I would definitely go the 115 H.O, as has already been said, the H.O uses a beefier gearbox, so you'll be getting the same power as the 130 really, give or take, but with a beefier drivetrain.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA..GAWD a 115 thats as good as a 130.. must be something wrong with their marketing if you can come out with a comment like that.

[marco]

Will do Marco.

Your thoughts - 115HO or the new 130 and why?

Splash
sorry i really dont know enough to comment

[Jabba_]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA..GAWD a 115 thats as good as a 130.. must be something wrong with their marketing if you can come out with a comment like that.
The 115HO is a race purpose built motor. HO standing for High Output which pushes the limits off the 10% rule for racing.. 10% rule meaning, the stock outboard motor is not allowed to have more then 10% more power then is advertised. That being 115HP, plus 10% for being the HO model brings it up to 126HP... Add there performance 20" leg with a taller gear ratio and its a Killer motor.....

The boys racing in the MOC class are seeing the HO E-tec's eating up the wins. Both the 225HO and 250HO are breaking world records that have stood for years... And these records have been broken by stock as a rock Evinrudes.
The boys in the Merc camp are defecting in large numbers... Why wouldn't they when BRP still offers a 3 year warranty and 3year / 300hrs between each service.... No other manufacture in the world is doing that...... But I don't think that BRP would have to worry about neglected motors, any keen racer will service there motor between every race meet anyway....

[Spaniard_King]

The 115HO is a race purpose built motor. HO standing for High Output which pushes the limits off the 10% rule for racing.. 10% rule meaning, the stock outboard motor is not allowed to have more then 10% more power then is advertised. That being 115HP, plus 10% for being the HO model brings it up to 126HP... Add there performance 20" leg with a taller gear ratio and its a Killer motor.....

The boys racing in the MOC class are seeing the HO E-tec's eating up the wins. Both the 225HO and 250HO are breaking world records that have stood for years... And these records have been broken by stock as a rock Evinrudes.
The boys in the Merc camp are defecting in large numbers... Why wouldn't they when BRP still offers a 3 year warranty and 3year / 300hrs between each service.... No other manufacture in the world is doing that...... But I don't think that BRP would have to worry about neglected motors, any keen racer will service there motor between every race meet anyway....


Yeh Jabba. ya got to hand it to BRP.. handin out 3 year warranties on race engines.. that will win them plenty of points I am sure:o

[FNQCairns]

This all sounds like the reason the 10% rule came in, evinrude and mercury in the outboard hey days, building engines with stickers that didn't match their performance mainly the 6cyl engines. Then they still kept at it even after the rule - esp mercury, calmed down this last 15 years or so.

All they need to do is build the 2st engines with a few more cubes, they are very high on HP per cube, just add more cubes for the hp and they breath fire!

Splash go the skanky!:) you probably do not need it but would be more fun, when appropriate.

cheers fnq

[Splash]

wondering if the 130HO exists.... :-)

Hi FNQ - I am in Darwin now - and will get serious come Octoberish - after i get back from USA...

The starter motor on my johno still needs sorting........

Splash

[Quaker]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA..GAWD a 115 thats as good as a 130.. must be something wrong with their marketing if you can come out with a comment like that.

What? A comment that's true? ::)

[Splash]

any other takers on the 130HP vs 115HO?

Splash

[marco]

ring bruce at brp in sydney , he will tell you exactly what the differences are

[Jabba_]

any other takers on the 130HP vs 115HO?

Splash
The 115 HO has the better gear box and a taller gear ratio... With it producing 126hp and the 130hp producing around 135hp (So I'm told), I would take the 115HO.

Also, BRP are considering picking up the tab for the first 300hr/3 year service..... So if you buy a new E-tec you wont have to pay for a service for 600hrs / 6 years.... It's not set in concrete yet, but more will come to light in the next month or so.......

I can see there are going to be a lot off dealers from the other brands with there noses out off joint.....
I wonder what horror stories there going to make up about the E-tec's now

[Ron173]

As has been said here many times in this post, this is typical rubbish from a poor salesman who cannot sell his own product on its merits, but has to reduce himself to the lowest trick in book of trying to run down the competition.

I recently sold a boat with a 90hp etec, sweetest most reliable fuel efficient engine out of 5 outboards owned so far, and I'd buy another if I had the need for it without question.

Ron

[sea raider]

I've got a mate who recently test drove a new Trailcraft Centre Cab with a Verado on it.

The motor broke down on the test drive and from what I understand required quite a bit of repairs.

Does this mean that I should start a thread warning all Mercury Verado owners to keep an eye on their engines??????????

Cheers

[chop duster]

Sea Raider, everyone!
how about you just let this thread slide, and let it die, as it seems to be turning into a bash fest, and we all know end in tears! or someone gets banned:'(

[coucho]

Also, BRP are considering picking up the tab for the first 300hr/3 year service..... So if you buy a new E-tec you wont have to pay for a service for 600hrs / 6 years.... It's not set in concrete yet, but more will come to light in the next month or so.......

It is set in concrete the offer is on I got offered that deal a month ago at the lismore camping show

[Quaker]

It is set in concrete the offer is on I got offered that deal a month ago at the lismore camping show

It'd be nice if they put it on their website. I just picked up my 150 a couple of weeks ago & my dealer hasn't heard jack about this offer. Then again, this is backwards town....aka Adelaide.::)

[TimiBoy]

It'd be nice if they put it on their website. I just picked up my 150 a couple of weeks ago & my dealer hasn't heard jack about this offer. Then again, this is backwards town....aka Adelaide.::)

LOL, it can take a while for the coach to get down there with the mail. Is there there telegraph down there now?

(Actually I love the place, it's my home town!)

Cheers,

Tim

[coucho]

It'd be nice if they put it on their website. I just picked up my 150 a couple of weeks ago & my dealer hasn't heard jack about this offer. Then again, this is backwards town....aka Adelaide.::)

I was told by the etec rep that it was an offer for the show season and etec where claiming it would save you up to 6000 dollars they had posters up making the claims. When I asked him how it was sposed to save you 6000 when it was only one service he said it was ment as opposed to servicing a 4 stroke. Not that I could see 6000 dollars of service fees on a 4 stroke over 6 years!! Imaginitive marketing a little I think or maybe they ment for twin 200 hp engines?

Still a pretty good offer when the purchase price is all you pay for 600 hrs or 6 years.

[Malcolm W]

Hi Team,

During my first day in my new home, Darwin, today - I ventured into the Darwin Boat Show and spoke with both BRP and Yamaha about their respective flagship outboards.

The etec rep said exactly what I expected - praise and all good stuff for the etecs. Better weight savings, hole shot, etc... A comment "...tradtional 4 strokers are still uneasy about making the swtich to the newer ETECs...".

When I spoke to the Yamaha rep - I asked him why I should considera Yami over the ETECs. He replied with a comment "..he has heard of many young etecs undergoing engine rebuilds...and I should buy anything other than an ETEC...."

I am a bit shocked at the Yami comment - Who else has heard about engine rebuilds to newer ETECS?

I don't wanna start another war on this topic - just seeking clarity on this situation..

SPlash Hi Splash, I am an authorised assessor for Skippers tickets now compulsory here in WA. In the peak season I will spend time on several clients boats ( 5-10 + per week ). Having read many threads on ETECs here in the past I usually ask clients about their own motor and any problems. After taking out quite a few different age and HP ETECs none reported to have a rebuild. Only a few minor electrical problems on the early models ( fixed by the dealer ). Overall ETEC owners appear to be happy with their choice. ( I dont own one, only a carby 2 stroke ) Most problems come at the boat ramp from motors more than 10-15 years old that wont start, and I would say 99% of the newer motors are very reliable. cheers Mal.

[sea raider]

I was told by the etec rep that it was an offer for the show season and etec where claiming it would save you up to 6000 dollars they had posters up making the claims. When I asked him how it was sposed to save you 6000 when it was only one service he said it was ment as opposed to servicing a 4 stroke. Not that I could see 6000 dollars of service fees on a 4 stroke over 6 years!! Imaginitive marketing a little I think or maybe they ment for twin 200 hp engines?

Still a pretty good offer when the purchase price is all you pay for 600 hrs or 6 years.

Could someone tell us how much it does cost to service a 4 stroke?

I've heard a few different costs around and would just like to see.

Cheers

Geoff

[coucho]

I asked my mate who has a 140 zuk after I heard that and he said it was costing him 400 a service.
400 x 6 = 2400

[Wahoo]

Could someone tell us how much it does cost to service a 4 stroke?

I've heard a few different costs around and would just like to see.

Cheers

Geoff


Geoff, just had my 225 Verado done ( 100hrs ) including a impeller kit $425.00, but i also did my own oil change at 50hrs

[TimiBoy]

Just had the 300 hr (major) on my 250 Verado, for $746. That included a new set of plugs (about $170) and an impellor kit.

Cheers,

Tim

[Mindi]

Could someone tell us how much it does cost to service a 4 stroke?

I've heard a few different costs around and would just like to see.

Cheers

Geoff

I have just got quotes on servicing 90s...Suzuki $365 annual, Optimax $565 annual, and Etec (in year three)....$400.......remember you only miss the first two with an Etec not three.!

[Quaker]

I have just got quotes on servicing 90s...Suzuki $365 annual, Optimax $565 annual, and Etec (in year three)....$400.......remember you only miss the first two with an Etec not three.!

Ah, yes, but remember with the e-tec there are no valve clearances to set, no belts to adjust or replace, no timing belts/chains to tension/replace, no engine oil to change. Need I go on? ;D

[backlash08]

Hi Splash, I am an authorised assessor for Skippers tickets now compulsory here in WA. In the peak season I will spend time on several clients boats ( 5-10 + per week ). Having read many threads on ETECs here in the past I usually ask clients about their own motor and any problems. After taking out quite a few different age and HP ETECs none reported to have a rebuild. Only a few minor electrical problems on the early models ( fixed by the dealer ). Overall ETEC owners appear to be happy with their choice. ( I dont own one, only a carby 2 stroke ) Most problems come at the boat ramp from motors more than 10-15 years old that wont start, and I would say 99% of the newer motors are very reliable. cheers Mal.


Thanks Mal,
a good objective and non biased comment - (not that others arnt guys)

cheers - Craig

[Splash]

Just had the 300 hr (major) on my 250 Verado, for $746. That included a new set of plugs (about $170) and an impellor kit.

Cheers,

Tim

:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

[BrenMac]

I have just got quotes on servicing 90s...Suzuki $365 annual, Optimax $565 annual, and Etec (in year three)....$400.......remember you only miss the first two with an Etec not three.!

That seems a bit high for the Opti- used to pay between $400-$450 for my 115.

Cheers
Brendan

[GBC]

Did a bit of checking when my uncle bought a boat with a 225 ho. The dealer who serviced that particular motor stated "do not run it on the etec oil programme even though you are running etec oil as there have been cases where the programme is too lean resulting in piston failure." He stated that this is with the ho motors only of the first generation (fourth gen if you count ficht or don't etec owners mention that?)
I don't mind the motor although it is a bit thirsty.
Dunno if anyone else has written the same thing - I skimmed the drivel - hope this helps someone.

[Quaker]

Did a bit of checking when my uncle bought a boat with a 225 ho. The dealer who serviced that particular motor stated "do not run it on the etec oil programme even though you are running etec oil as there have been cases where the programme is too lean resulting in piston failure." He stated that this is with the ho motors only of the first generation (fourth gen if you count ficht or don't etec owners mention that?)
I don't mind the motor although it is a bit thirsty.
Dunno if anyone else has written the same thing - I skimmed the drivel - hope this helps someone.

The ficht was an OMC motor, BRP had nothing to do with it, it's not an e-tec.

[finding_time]

Could someone tell us how much it does cost to service a 4 stroke?

I've heard a few different costs around and would just like to see.

Cheers

Geoff

Geoff

I get my two 60 hp four strokes serviced on my cat for around $400 so $200 each!

Ian

[Jabba_]

Did a bit of checking when my uncle bought a boat with a 225 ho. The dealer who serviced that particular motor stated "do not run it on the etec oil programme even though you are running etec oil as there have been cases where the programme is too lean resulting in piston failure." He stated that this is with the ho motors only of the first generation (fourth gen if you count ficht or don't etec owners mention that?)
I don't mind the motor although it is a bit thirsty.
Dunno if anyone else has written the same thing - I skimmed the drivel - hope this helps someone.

Yes there were a few lean out failures with the HO's, but it was mostly all in the racing scene where the hammer if flat to the floor all the time..... What BRP have now done to all HO's is they have taken away the EMM ability to run XD100 ratio... So the only setting now is tcw3 for all HO's, and if the engine is raced, it must use XD100 oil...

[ozbee]

jabba is 100% right

[Splash]

[quote=Malcolm W;883743] After taking out quite a few different age and HP ETECs none reported to have a rebuild. Only a few minor electrical problems on the early models ( fixed by the dealer ). Overall ETEC owners appear to be happy with their choice. quote]

Thanks Malcom.

I guess it really depends on who you speak to.....some have reported rebuilds while others have not. Australia is a big place...:)

GO ETEC!

Splash

[FNQCairns]

Yes there were a few lean out failures with the HO's, but it was mostly all in the racing scene where the hammer if flat to the floor all the time..... What BRP have now done to all HO's is they have taken away the EMM ability to run XD100 ratio... So the only setting now is tcw3 for all HO's, and if the engine is raced, it must use XD100 oil...


What do you mean by TCW3 for all HO'S? Does that mean one cannot use XD50 and must use the bom 30 instead?

cheers fnq

[Outsider1]

What do you mean by TCW3 for all HO'S? Does that mean one cannot use XD50 and must use the bom 30 instead?

cheers fnq

Nah,

Evinrude recommend you use XD100 but you can't set the oil usage to an XD100 setting. The only oil setting is the higher oiling rate at the TCW 3 setting.

Cheers

Dave

[FNQCairns]

Thanks Dave seeing that xd50 is not a TCW3, I wondered what they were doing.

cheers fnq

[Jabba_]

FNQ, If XD50 isn't a TCW3 oil, What sort off oil is it?

[FNQCairns]

FNQ, If XD50 isn't a TCW3 oil, What sort off oil is it?

Just a good quality but run of the mill 2 stroke oil, probably up to the standard of a name brand chainsaw or whipper snipper economy oil, also might run in medium performance snow mobils, 2 stroke bikes, jet ski's etc.

cheers fnq

[Outsider1]

Just a good quality but run of the mill 2 stroke oil, probably up to the standard of a name brand chainsaw or whipper snipper economy oil, also might run in medium performance snow mobils, 2 stroke bikes, jet ski's etc.

cheers fnq

are you sure about that Scott? The Evinrude website states that XD30 is "Formulated for water cooled 2-cycle outboards and other 2-cycle engines that specify TC-W3 certified oils."

and "XD50 Performanced enhanced sythetic blend oil that meets the spedific demands of direct injection and water cooled 2-cycle outboard engines that specify TC-W3 certified oils."

http://shop.evinrude.com/dyn_prodlist.php?k=84008

Thanks

Dave

[disorderly]

C'mon Scott...you can tell me,mate....you just really want one ,dont you.;)::);D

[FNQCairns]

Yeah fella's I could be wrong, last time I checked and from memory the 50 and 100 was not tcw3 certified, the givers of that certification over-rule any manufacturer or on the bottle claims. The 30 certainly is tcw3.

Don't get me wrong the 50 by being a more typical 2 stroke oil is streaks ahead of the tcw3 standard which is low grade by comparison. I assume the bom 50 but most certainly the 100 oil has another certification outside of manufacturers claims? I dunno.

When the 50 and 100 was a torco oil, I am pretty sure it was not tcw3 either, their 30 was.

Scott anytime you want to do a straight swap on our 90s just let me know:) I will even help:):)

cheers fnq

[FNQCairns]

Here is link, I had a quick look and didn't find anything re the xd oils, it was a quick look, these blokes are THE certifiers if they do not certify it as a tcw3 then nobody in world can.

Didn't find the 30 either I thought it was a tcw3:(

http://www.nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/registeredoil.asp?y=TCW32008&s=Registrant

cheers fnq

[rustymarlin]

found this interesting link about etecs. Very imformative and appears unbiased .
http://www.oceanskiffjournal.com/SubscriberContent/Articles/Vol01Issue05/General/ETEC1.aspx

[Mindi]

found this interesting link about etecs. Very imformative and appears unbiased .
http://www.oceanskiffjournal.com/SubscriberContent/Articles/Vol01Issue05/General/ETEC1.aspx

Yeah its not a bad article is it...been linked here a few times before....but it was written nearly three years ago and a lot has changed since then presumably...some for better some for worse..? so it is a bit out of date.

[Splash]

how's the etecs going people?

Splash

[disorderly]

Still chugging along....Going to let mine loose in a couple of days for a well earned reef trip,splash...

Hows the fishing up darwin way??

[Steven78]

I have had one for 16months now gets a work out every weekend on complants or problems. Just make sure you get the right prop and the motor is at the right hight.

[Jabba_]

Mine is running like a charm... Got 75hrs on it now, the more I use it the more I love it.....

Check out this link Splash... http://forums.etecownersgroup.com/tool/post/barnaclebill/vpost?id=3038812
After 1000hrs running on XD50 and E20 ULP (20% ethanol) they stripped down a 2005 250 E-tec and report and photograph all components, they also include what need replacing... It's a very thorough report

[Mindi]

Mine is running like a charm... Got 75hrs on it now, the more I use it the more I love it.....

Check out this link Splash... http://forums.etecownersgroup.com/tool/post/barnaclebill/vpost?id=3038812
After 1000hrs running on XD50 and E20 ULP (20% ethanol) they stripped down a 2005 250 E-tec and report and photograph all components, they also include what need replacing... It's a very thorough report

Very interesting report Jabba I wish I was an engineer to understand it better. Obviously modern technology has the saltwater corrosion thing beaten at least at BRP..? As for the engine wear I guess I am impressed...?..but it is only the equivalent of 50,000 km in a modern car... so you wouldnt be expecting to see severe internal mechanical wear would you..? ...but its a good story for sure. I admire the reach of their marketing department, they really have their act together. Will certainly be on my very short shortlist for powering my overdue new boat. One thing I was amazed by was how few parts there are even in a large V6...incredible..I imagined a lot more. The other inetresting thing it does tend to say is that they can survive 20% plus ethanol and crap fuel...thats useful news. Still leaves you with ethanol issues in fuel storage and delivery systems but the E-TEC itself doesnt seem to care.

[Splash]

thanks guys!

Any new tips / variations for next year's ETEC model range?

Splash

[FNQCairns]

Yeah there is a lot of love directed at that E-tec by the blokes, to my mind, the corrosion thing was a red herring, nothing greatly above typical for use and type there. The only big thing is the pistons followed by the crankshaft to a lesser degree, the bore is nothing special coated bores have been around for a long long time and they put up a good fight in engines operated near or within standard operating conditions,those pistons are fairly spiffy still we don't get to hold them in a hand and see all around the side, still unless I missed it where are the bore photos??????? Why leave these most important pics out???

cheers fnq

[Splash]

I agree FNQ.

[Jabba_]

thanks guys!

Any new tips / variations for next year's ETEC model range?

Splash
More oil injection points. Extra water pick ups on the nose cone..

[Jabba_]

Yeah there is a lot of love directed at that E-tec by the blokes, to my mind, the corrosion thing was a red herring, nothing greatly above typical for use and type there. The only big thing is the pistons followed by the crankshaft to a lesser degree, the bore is nothing special coated bores have been around for a long long time and they put up a good fight in engines operated near or within standard operating conditions,those pistons are fairly spiffy still we don't get to hold them in a hand and see all around the side, still unless I missed it where are the bore photos??????? Why leave these most important pics out???

cheers fnq

Not sure why the bore pic are gone, they use to be there but not any more.. FYI you could still see some hone markings in all bores....
As for the coated bores, are there any other manufactures or is BRP the only outboard company coat there bores...

I thought the corrosion or lack off it was interesting, as we E-tec owners are all ways reminded (by so called E-tec experts who have never owned of or operated a E-tec) that 100hr services are crucial because the head, block and studs will corrode into place, amoung other things that could wear or break.....

[Splash]

Thansk Jabba.

DO u know when next year's model will be released?

Splash

[FNQCairns]

Not sure why the bore pic are gone, they use to be there but not any more.. FYI you could still see some hone markings in all bores....
As for the coated bores, are there any other manufactures or is BRP the only outboard company coat there bores...

I thought the corrosion or lack off it was interesting, as we E-tec owners are all ways reminded (by so called E-tec experts who have never owned of or operated a E-tec) that 100hr services are crucial because the head, block and studs will corrode into place, amoung other things that could wear or break.....

Mercury I know has had a long history of bore coatings, not sure today on other brands, virtually every performance 2 stroke dirtbike since the mid 80s had them as does chainsaws etc. Today lots of cars do and virtually every race application of engine, a person can send any bore away to have it coated before rebuild. Wonder if the E-tec is ceramic coated??That would be trick.

I have no idea what coating process the Etec uses or minor modification of another process to call it theirs even, there are quite a few different ones, Nicasil (sp) is one that comes to mind, chrome has been used fairly often also.

cheers fnq

[Spaniard_King]

..? As for the engine wear I guess I am impressed...?..but it is only the equivalent of 50,000 km in a modern car... .

Mindi, curious to know how you came to the concluision of the KLM traveled?

[chop duster]

Jabba_,
I am very suprised to hear you only have 75hrs on your e-tec. The way you talk about it, one would have thought you'd have a few more hours under your belt:-/

[Mindi]

Mindi, curious to know how you came to the concluision of the KLM traveled?

Well there wasnt a lot of science in it...I just figured from seeing my trip computer that you maybe average about 50 kph over the long run in a car...and 50 kph for 1000 hours is 50,000 kms. We think 1000 hours is a long time on an outboard...but we probably dont think 50,000km is a long distance on a car....so I figure that a car with 50,000 on the clock has had about 1000 hours engine time and I wouldnt expect it to be down to the "rings worn out" stage as the outboard was...?...not an ETEC bagging comment...in the absence of any evidence you would assume other DI Outboards would be similar I expect.

[Jabba_]

Jabba_,
I am very suprised to hear you only have 75hrs on your e-tec. The way you talk about it, one would have thought you'd have a few more hours under your belt:-/
It's the second motor I have had on my currant boat, first motor Ficht died as a result off water ingestion).... Before the Seafarer, I owned a few tinnies and an old 14ft half cabin....

I wish I had more hrs in the boat, but I have one off those anchors that prevent you from doing what you want. You know the one, it's called a wife, kids and a mortgage... otherwise I would be out every chance I got...

[disorderly]

I wish I had more hrs in the boat, but I have one off those anchors that prevent you from doing what you want. You know the one, it's called a wife, kids and a mortgage... otherwise I would be out every chance I got...

I know how you feel Jabba...

Up here we also have other major obstacle's ....the bloody wind and distance to the reef....my old girl is languishing with not much more than 200 hours on her....it has not been a good year weatherwise hereabouts....:(...

And I personally dont think it's advantageous for a motor to be sitting around without regular usage....i hope to rectify this somewhat this week though ;):).

scott

[Spaniard_King]

Well there wasnt a lot of science in it...I just figured from seeing my trip computer that you maybe average about 50 kph over the long run in a car...and 50 kph for 1000 hours is 50,000 kms. We think 1000 hours is a long time on an outboard...but we probably dont think 50,000km is a long distance on a car....so I figure that a car with 50,000 on the clock has had about 1000 hours engine time and I wouldnt expect it to be down to the "rings worn out" stage as the outboard was...?...not an ETEC bagging comment...in the absence of any evidence you would assume other DI Outboards would be similar I expect.

So what RPM does a car do at 50klm/hr compared to an outboard at 50klm/hr.. personally I would expect 5 x times as much wear in the outboard!

[Mindi]

So what RPM does a car do at 50klm/hr compared to an outboard at 50klm/hr.. personally I would expect 5 x times as much wear in the outboard!

Fair enough....but whats your point Garry ..? that the rings being worn down to the minimum of their acceptable range at 1000 hrs is good engineering performance..?...I admit I dont know...maybe 2 strokes work to different expectations..? it certainly wouldnt impress in a car. But maybe your point is that the comparison is meaningless.

[Spaniard_King]

Mindi,

my point is an outboard is subjected to much different operating conditions and load stresses are far from the same hence the outboard will have a shorter life expectancy. In theory a 4 stroke outboard should have a longer life due to its forced lubrication compared tot he 2 stroke spalsh lubrication systems. Sometimes this is not the case :P

[Outsider1]

Further to Garry's comments, think of it like this; to create comparative operating conditions for a car engine you would have to;

1) have it permanently stuck in 2nd gear

2) drive it only up hill

3) have wheel/tyres that slip (lose traction) by around 10/15%

4) drive it 85% of the time at 4,000 to 5,000 rpms

5) have no differential (the slip helps a little here though)

I have left out any corrosion related issues because an Outboard is built specifically for that environment whereas a car is not.

Cheers

Dave

[cormorant]

I'll add a couple

4stroke half the weight of equivalent car motor , castings thinner smaller water galleries

One half or less of the oil capacity of similar cr motor - oil works harder

Salt air

Vertical crank - requires different style of thrust bearings and seals

Thermostats bypass and engine loses temp or gains temp at different speeds - all adds tometal stress abd wear

[ozbee]

its the lack of upper piston lubricant in the cylinder that is holding back the development of di foursrokes which can give up to 40 % more fuel economy . Alfa Romeo have developed these engines and are very powerful and fuel efficient . like all things as$$$$$$$$ come down in time you will see them jump into the outboard industry very quickly as they would be ideal as well as being probably in the **** star rating as they burn extremely lean hence they have a upper cylinder lubricant just like the e tec as well as a sump.

so the answer to spadiard is the present system with new synethic oil which is present above and below the piston is superior lubricantion than a oil sump which can only deliver below the piston in a four stroke . as EPA force leaner engines on us in the future four strokes will have to tackle this problem which is not hard to overcome.

[Noelm]

ozbee is on the money, I have been doing a bit of research on lean running 4 strokes, and indeed big fuel savings are there to be had, but lubrication at the high Piston speeds is a concern, so Oil injection (just like an Etec) will probably be on the cards for lean burn, ultra fuel efficient Motors, now will the 4 stroke boys warm to 2 stroke technology in their Outboards? only time will tell, and the ever increasing price of fuel!

[STUIE63]

now now Noel please don't blaspheme the four stroke boys will not buy them as the only like old technology and will not get new technology until it is proven by a number of years:o LMAO8-)
Stuie

[Noelm]

well I guess we will have to just live with it then! but to acheive super fuel economy, I think the writing may be on the wall, a sort of combo 2 stroke 4 stroke thing, but who knows for sure, some miracle Engine might be just around the corner, and not something that need a Nuclear Power Plant in the back yard, or a Power Station to charge it up over night or even a Hydrogen converter gizmo that promised us wonders for a while, but a true development in what we have now, it just might be the answer (but it also may not)

[Spaniard_King]

are you guys kidding...GP 4 stroke motorcycles don't idle around.

Splash lubrication will never be better than forced lubrication...

I will give you this.. DFI 4 strokes will come.. evolution I guess. but I will back and (silver) 4 stroke to be have better fuel economy than any DFI 2 stroke on the same hull/weight (excluding engines). Sure the DFI will have superior top end but who hear runs around at WOT!

[Spaniard_King]

so the answer to spadiard is the present system with new synethic oil which is present above and below the piston is superior lubricantion than a oil sump which can only deliver below the piston in a four stroke . as EPA force leaner engines on us in the future four strokes will have to tackle this problem which is not hard to overcome.

So how do you think the dfi 2 stroke will go about passing stricter EPA regulations if it is burning 2 stroke oil in the combustion chamber as you have indicated it does???

Seems it could be a hurdle a DFI 2 stroke would have to get over::)

[Jabba_]

So how do you think the dfi 2 stroke will go about passing stricter EPA regulations if it is burning 2 stroke oil in the combustion chamber as you have indicated it does???

Seems it could be a hurdle a DFI 2 stroke would have to get over::)
From what I have read and heard from BRP techs, the E-tec is ready for 4 star EPA emissions.. Apparently all they have to do is incorporate an Cat converter.. And some minor map changers.

Now I know it has been covered on this site about Cats and oil, but what I was told was, the E-tec uses such little oil and it burns 100% off it, fitting a Cat to the E-tec has always been in the scope for future evolutions off the E-tec...

As for splash lubrication, I am not sure what type off lubricaion you would call the E-tec system, but I think it is a long way from the old fuel and oil mix splash system... From what I understand, oil is injected into critical points such as bearings and cylinder walls... The 09 E-tec have improved on ths again by adding more lubrication points....
Not sure if this means anything to you SP , but every E-tec I have seen has never had sutt inside the prop hub, and even when I spend a heap off time trolling I still don't get any sutt... To me I would off thought that would mean a very clean burning motor....

P.S. that HH 760 Looks good.......

[ozbee]

synthetic not mineral base just remember that oil you drain out is full of heavy metals. i dont see what the drama is i would buy a di fourstroke at the drop of a hat if they became available so what if you have a xtra oil bottle to top up so with fuel savings of up to 40 %. diavantages would be a two stroke would develop more hp for the same cubes also be able to run on different fuels diesel vegetable oils as well as petrol. four strokes would have a longer length of stroke than twos so would probably be the best fuel wise. cripes wouldnt we be bugged if they made a engine with one valve and one port what could we find to argue over know.

[ozbee]

jabba i have a little crack in the cabin door step moulding which was there from new do you think they will swap mine for the 760.

[Spaniard_King]

Jabba,

etecs have a splash lubrication system, all be it way better than the fuel/oil ixed system most 2 stroke outboards have. the lubrication is still based on the ficht system i.e external oil pump feeding a multitude of lubricating points.

IMO the ability to use little oil translates to minimal lubrication at the lubricating points. but this appears to be sufficient but only time will tell.

Wouldn't mind laying my eyes on a V6 etec with over 3000hrs of comercial use Like the water taxis I look after. be a good comparrison.. let me know if you know of any on the Goldy I could go and have a look at?

[Jabba_]

Jabba,

etecs have a splash lubrication system, all be it way better than the fuel/oil ixed system most 2 stroke outboards have. the lubrication is still based on the ficht system i.e external oil pump feeding a multitude of lubricating points.

IMO the ability to use little oil translates to minimal lubrication at the lubricating points. but this appears to be sufficient but only time will tell.

Wouldn't mind laying my eyes on a V6 etec with over 3000hrs of comercial use Like the water taxis I look after. be a good comparrison.. let me know if you know of any on the Goldy I could go and have a look at?

I don't know off any taxi's but I do know that Yellow Survey Cat for the GCCC has a well over a thousand hrs, possibly 2000k now, maybe more.. When I saw it last February it had 1200 on it... Can't remember what size it was, 150 IRC or maybe 115's, Not sure... But if I hear off coming in for a tear down, I'll let you know....
I have all so notice there are more & more commercial boats getting E-tec's fitted up...... Still not as many E-tec's in the commercial scene at there are 4st....

[Jabba_]

jabba i have a little crack in the cabin door step moulding which was there from new do you think they will swap mine for the 760.

Now that is wishfull thinking....LOL

[Mindi]

Wow I have learned some interesting stuff here..Thanks Spaniard King, Jabba,Ozbee, Noelm and others. Obviously my comparison of cars and DI 2 strokes was silly...........ooops..!

[cormorant]

You don't see basically new blown motors up for sale very often

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140278280505&ssPageName=ADME:X:eRTM:AU:1123

Anyone in Tas know what could have caused it without a shutdown or alarm?.

[Jabba_]

You don't see basically new blown motors up for sale very often

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140278280505&ssPageName=ADME:X:eRTM:AU:1123

Anyone in Tas know what could have caused it without a shutdown or alarm?.
That bloke imported a Bass boat from the USA to Tassie..... Had the usual checks done, but obviously there was a problem with this motor, and a high chance it was abused by it's original owner back in the USA.... It lasted a total off 1hr in Australian waters... He was given one off those warranty's from the USA dealer that is only good to wipe your ass with......

Yep, the dealer was going to reneged on the warranty unless he sent the motor back to the USA, and BRP Australia said sorry, grey import we cant help..

You have to ask, who with a sane mind would spend so much money on a boat with a warranty that is worthless.....

A blocked injector will melt the powerhead without setting off alarms....
A blocked injector is caused by dirty fuel and/or dirty filter.. (which you would know)

[Noelm]

are you guys kidding...GP 4 stroke motorcycles don't idle around.

Splash lubrication will never be better than forced lubrication...

I will give you this.. DFI 4 strokes will come.. evolution I guess. but I will back and (silver) 4 stroke to be have better fuel economy than any DFI 2 stroke on the same hull/weight (excluding engines). Sure the DFI will have superior top end but who hear runs around at WOT!
very true, BUT what we are talking about is a Motor running way too lean for it's own good, to get the economy from them, that's why the lube problem arises, there has been some development with Ceramics instead of Alloys, not exactly new technology, but new in "mainstream" Engines, I guess it will not be a full on Oil injection system like a two stroke, but just enough to provide upper Cylinder Lube at the temps that can be created in a lean burn! we are talking 4 strokes.