Problem with NEW 40HP Merc...

[T1]

Hi All

I purchased a brand new Mercury 40hp 2-stroke 3cyl Oil Inj motor in Oct 07.

Since then, i have had a sparodic reoccuring problem when starting. This has happened on 5 seperate occassions indiscriminately.

When starting, it won't fire. I raise the Idle lever to full and eventually it'll fire but wont idle at full revs - more like splutter. The minute you lower the lever to normal idle position, it snuffs/conks out. This will keep happening for a lengthy period of time. On occassion, i can keep the revs up long enough to to reduce the idle lever and put it into full throttle/gear to take off. Other times, can't even do that.

This has happened so indiscriminately it's not funny! Starting at the ramp to head out, starting for the 20th time in a session when motor is warm, starting after being anchored for a few hours...

The latest episode occured on Friday. After hitching a tow from the coast guard, took it straight to xxxxxx Marine where they checked fuel etc and that came up trumps. Bear in mind this is the 3rd time it’s been back to them for the same problem! We took it down to Colmslie and put it in the Brissie – damn thing ran as sweet as pie! Wouldn’t replicate the problem and it’s got them completely stuffed! They spoken with Mercury and they haven’t come across this either so they’re thinking it might be electrical in nature due to its sporadic nature. This problem just happens out of nowhere!!! So they’ve decided to replace the electrics under the flywheel and see if this resolves the issue.

Has anyone experienced a similiar issue with a Merc or another motor?

Take Care T

[castlemaine]

Hi T1
Had an old Johnson 30hp on my old tinnie and had heaps of problems starting till I took it to another mechanic and I couldn't believe the difference. Started 1st go, no smoke and ran like a dream. Unfortunately he's moved on. Not saying that the mechanic you've presently got is hopeless but there may be another that understands the motor a little bit more. Hope this helps. Cheers 8-)

[Jeremy]

sounds like it might be a fuel flow issue to me? Just a thought.

Jeremy

[foxx510]

Checked your fuel tank breather vent?

[T1]

Hi T1
Had an old Johnson 30hp on my old tinnie and had heaps of problems starting till I took it to another mechanic and I couldn't believe the difference. Started 1st go, no smoke and ran like a dream. Unfortunately he's moved on. Not saying that the mechanic you've presently got is hopeless but there may be another that understands the motor a little bit more. Hope this helps. Cheers 8-)

C/MAINE, it's a brand newie and covered under a 5yr Warranty so need to take it back to the dealer i bought it from, as i believe they have an obligation to fix/replace it. This is their last chance - next port of call will be calling for a replacement from mercury!



sounds like it might be a fuel flow issue to me? Just a thought.

Jeremy

JEREMY, they appear to have discounted it being a fuel problem due to its sparodic nature. They've done all the fuel checks/tests etc. The one thing i didn't mention that when we actually got it started on Friday on the way in, while i was in full throttle, it was only running at 3/4 throttle pace. That's why i think they're looking at the electrics...

Take Care T

[Kleyny]

I have a 04 model 60hp merc mine does have trouble starting sometimes.
Mine does not like to start with the motor tilted too far up.
It also doesnt like starting after doing 3 short burst coming off a bank whilst drifting.

To get it going i need to pull the fast idle lever up to give it some revs.
Once she starts it doesnt stop though.

But if you keep the motor down and dont do shor burst it starts first kick everytime.


I have fixed my problem with an electric motor;D

neil

[ffejsmada]

C/MAINE, it's a brand newie and covered under a 5yr Warranty so need to take it back to the dealer i bought it from, as i believe they have an obligation to fix/replace it. This is their last chance!
Take Care T

Trade it in and buy a Honda........................problem solved!;D

[danny412]

I have a 50HP merc 04 model and it does the exact same thing, some days no probs, others just cant get it to start. It does fire eventually but not without some worrying moments. Im looking forward to hear what others have to say and how to fix/ remedy the prob

Danny

[FNQCairns]

Cold morning plays havoc with 2 strokes that now run on unleaded fuel, it's a hard starting fuel, if the engine is started when the block temperature is higher like in the afternoon or after sitting in the sun the problem goes away, when the block is at 12 or 15 degc after a cool night they can be a beast.

A proper tuneup if designed to deal with it, will cover the problem, mine does it too, early morning starts can be painfull but transitory when the climate changes to warmer, mine is not as bad as yours so I just put up with it, if it were nearer to yours I would have tuned the problem away.

You at home can close the plug gap to the smallest side of the spec, you can also open each of the idle jets out .25 of a turn this will help cold starts but do nothing (or may be a minor negative) for the higher revs or when warm, will not gum up either unless you have other problems - thats a falicy on a good condition engine this last 30 years anyway.

cheers fnq

[foxx510]

I'm not an expert by any means, but if playing with the idle lever helps it start when it's playing up, wouldn't that generally point to a fuel issue?

[kitty_cat]

mate no expert at all , but could be a sticky choke , havent spayed enox under cowl by any chance great product but leaves a slightly sticky residue which in my case made the choke stick every now and again
wayne

[FNQCairns]

I'm not an expert by any means, but if playing with the idle lever helps it start when it's playing up, wouldn't that generally point to a fuel issue?

Nah mate, the lever will advance spark as the main cold start helper, a tuneup to cover this would also centre on idle spark timing.

cheers fnq

[foxx510]

Nah mate, the lever will advance spark as the main cold start helper, a tuneup to cover this would also centre on idle spark timing.

cheers fnq

As I said, not an expert! ;D I HATE intermittent faults. They never occur when you want them to.

[marty+jojo]

Hey T, sell the f***er and get serious, get yourself a yamaha!
Sorry mate, i hate Mercs,,, never had a prob with my yammy in the 5 years i've had it.
Marty.

[DR]

Hey T, sell the f***er and get serious, get yourself a yamaha!
Sorry mate, i hate Mercs,,, never had a prob with my yammy in the 5 years i've had it.
Marty.

i have the same motor, Mercury 40hp 2-stroke 3cyl Oil Inj, except a 2000 model & it does not miss a beat.Once you get it sorted it will be good...don't be a sheeple & stick with the Merc, they are good motors.;)

[Lancair]

Ive got to say it.

You should of bought an ETEC. Everyones always bashing them but Ive not had any starting issues with mine, even in near zero temps at Glenlyon Dam.

Seriously, I hope you get it sorted, paying good money for something that doesnt work as expected sucks.

Andrew

[MyEscape]

There's no reason a new Merc isn't going to run as good as any other motor. I've got a new Yamaha 40hp myself, but it's new! If it doesn't run like a new one then the Dealer has a problem.

I've had a new Mercs too. And was a great motor. just had to sell the boat to downsize that's all.

Steve

[Poodroo]

Hey there T. You have the exact same moter as I have on mine which I took delivery of in December last year. I too was having a similar problem. Hard to start cold, hard to start even when it had been running and it was even burning out spark plugs. With new plugs it would run well for a little bit although still incredibly hard to start and keep running when cold but then before long I would need to replace a plug yet again. When I took it for its first service back at Mr T's they checked it out and once again it came up trumps as you say but they did mention that some (not all) of those 40 hp 3cyl Mercs for reasons unknown to them required a hotter running plug in them. They replaced my plugs with the hotter running plug and "Hey Presto!" problem solved. I was still having a slight idle problem with the motor stalling sometimes but it was nowhere near as bad. Then one day my usual fuel supplier had issues with their computer so I couldn't fuel up so I was forced to go elsewhere. Ended up at a BP and filled up with Premium seeing as they don't offer a lesser octane fuel without ethanol in it. And guess what? The boat fires first go every time, doesn't stall and runs like an absolute dream. Perhaps the combination of higher octane fuel with the hotter running plugs is what you might find worth trying? I am stoked now.


Poodroo

[T1]

Thanks everyone for your comments & feedback!! The real frustrating bit is it won't replicate the problem when they have it!!!

Marty, the Yammy was my other preferred option but in trying to save a few hundred $$$, i bought the Merc!

I'm going to print this thread out and e-mail it to them so they can have a look at everyone else's experiences - really appreciate everyone taking the time to reply!!

Take Care T

[Local_Guy]

don't give up. it's a great motor and in the end it will probably be some so simple you and the mechanic overlook it.

i have the same motor as you. and like fnQCairns said. on a cold morning they are a bugger to start. can take me about 3 goes with the choke on to get it going, then another 2 to get it into gear to move off. the rest of the day is fine though.. and warmer weather starts first go.

FYI i'm getting 24.5kts (25kts in perfect weather) in my 4.6cc . use this as a guide to your speed. you will know when the motor is at it's peak because overaccelleration will cause the engine to splutter.. thats when you back it off a touch.

also, like others have mentioned, it could be a fuel problem.. your engine has a manual choke on the boat side. try pulling that out and back in. if this was stuck, that should help with the problem.

[T1]

don't give up. it's a great motor and in the end it will probably be some so simple you and the mechanic overlook it.

i have the same motor as you. and like fnQCairns said. on a cold morning they are a bugger to start. can take me about 3 goes with the choke on to get it going, then another 2 to get it into gear to move off. the rest of the day is fine though.. and warmer weather starts first go.

FYI i'm getting 24.5kts (25kts in perfect weather) in my 4.6cc . use this as a guide to your speed. you will know when the motor is at it's peak because overaccelleration will cause the engine to splutter.. thats when you back it off a touch.

also, like others have mentioned, it could be a fuel problem.. your engine has a manual choke on the boat side. try pulling that out and back in. if this was stuck, that should help with the problem.

Thanks mate!

3 times the problem has occured, motor was warm/hot ie been started about 20 times in that session! Twice it's been either starting off at the ramp at night (summer) or starting after being anchored for a few hours in the early morning (Autumn). It continued to play up for the rest of the morning that day! Mine is an electric start fwd str so choke is operated from the key however they've checked that too.

My max speed in good conditions is about 43-45k/hr depending on tilt position, which seems consistent with your top speed... When it's working in good order, it kicks 1st go everytime, regardless of time of day/conditions. This is the annoying bit, there's no consistency to it! :-/

Take Care T

[Local_Guy]

actually. come to think of it..... your problem...... is it like a real bogged down thing.. you try to accellerate, but it just wants to bog down and die....

if it is, then mine does the same thing.. i just put it down to the plugs getting oiled and fouled up.. i usually pump the accellerator a few times and it usually starts... for me, doesn't matter if the engine is warm, but usually happens after periods of going slow or trolling....

does that sound like it?

[T1]

actually. come to think of it..... your problem...... is it like a real bogged down thing.. you try to accellerate, but it just wants to bog down and die....

if it is, then mine does the same thing.. i just put it down to the plugs getting oiled and fouled up.. i usually pump the accellerator a few times and it usually starts... for me, doesn't matter if the engine is warm, but usually happens after periods of going slow or trolling....

does that sound like it?

No not really mate - once i get it in gear and go, it goes but at times won't accellarate at a quick pace - usually builds up gradually and at times won't hit full pace. It generally dies when i decellarate to idle. It is like it is choking for air but the more you give it, the more chance you have of keeping it running.

Take care T

[Sea-Dog]

Could it possibly be sucking air from somewhere around the carby?

Or another possibility is a little bit of floating crap in your fuel float bowl. Sometimes it will block a hole, other times it shifts out of the way.

Next time the motor plays up - give it a bit of a shaking around if possible. That may help locate the source of the problem.

[Jeremy]

one way to check the fuel flow issue would be to check if the priming bulb is firm when you are having trouble starting. I have done stuid things before like leaving the breather screw tightened on the tank, resulting in the motor dying and not restarting after running for about 5 mins. Exactly the same thing happens if there is a blockage or air bubble in the lines. Either way I can tell because the priming bulb is soft. Again, just a thought.

Jeremy

[zigfreed]

G'day T1

I remeber the thread you started when you were looking around, sorry to hear about your drama's.

FYI i have a 2005 40 ELPTO 2cyl, it has never missed a beat....touchwood.... i would stick with it and sort it out if i were you. Mercs are a good motor.
I have always run it on premium as it only works out to an extra 3-5 bucks per trip. One thing i did notice though was the increased performance i got when i switched to the recommended quicksilver premix oil. What sort of oil are you running? If its a low grade sort of stuff it maybe playing havoc with your plugs hence the pain trying to start it.
I am no mechaninc but it seems unsual to have an intermittent eletrical problem. Ususally when there's a spark issue its consistent.

Good luck with it and lets us know the outcome.

cheers

Mick

[T1]

G'day T1

I remeber the thread you started when you were looking around, sorry to hear about your drama's.

FYI i have a 2005 40 ELPTO 2cyl, it has never missed a beat....touchwood.... i would stick with it and sort it out if i were you. Mercs are a good motor.
I have always run it on premium as it only works out to an extra 3-5 bucks per trip. One thing i did notice though was the increased performance i got when i switched to the recommended quicksilver premix oil. What sort of oil are you running? If its a low grade sort of stuff it maybe playing havoc with your plugs hence the pain trying to start it.
I am no mechaninc but it seems unsual to have an intermittent eletrical problem. Ususally when there's a spark issue its consistent.

Good luck with it and lets us know the outcome.

cheers

Mick

Thanks Mick! I've got some pretty good responses/pm's and solutions from those who have experienced similiar problems. I think they might be on the right track with the electrics and spark plugs.

I'm using Castrol Premium but might have to consider the quicksilver. I think that's what they put in originally and the problem initally started when i was using this oil, so not sure if this really is the cause.

Take Care T

[1lastcast]

I have to say firstly that i am not a fan of mercs but the 40ph you have is actually not a bad engine i have the same motor on my little boat and also on my previous little boat i have not had any problems to speak of so i cannot bag them .

However i have had problems with other size mercs but this 40 i have is a little cracker .

My advise would be to get it sorted out and hang on to that motor as you will be very happy once it is sorted .

It doesnt matter what motor you buy anyone who thinks that a particular brand of motor never has any problems is kidding themselves they all have problems from time to time wether they cost $4000 or $40,000.

Regards MONOSTRETCHO

[QuinnyDory]

Hey T,
Had to cringe when I read your post. Have a Oct 2006 40HP 2str Merc (tohatsu I think). Almost exactly the same characteristics as you describe. Had it back to the dealer on 3 occasions and Im positive they thought I was a bit of a nut (might be right).

Initially it was fouling plugs continually, bogging down on take off once it was 20 mins warm. Totally unpredictable as 3 runs would be great then 2 impossible. Was threatening to throw it to the $hithouse for over a year - really disappointed for the x thousand I spent on it. Then the dealer tried hotter plugs (something like moving from a 8 to a 7 ... I cant exactly remember and its been a long winter), but big improvement. Mostly good since. One or two times since its been stubborn, but much better on average now after the plug change.

PM me if you need and I'll check out the exact plug details for you if need be.

cheers, Darren.

[T1]

Just an update guys, was down there today with printout of this thread...

They've been advised to use a plug with 'no resistance' as the standard ones are not as good (similair to POO & QUINNY). So, for now i just have to run it and see if it reoccurs but they're confident that this will nail it... Here's hoping!

Thanks again everyone!
T

BTW guys, for those who were discussing the Mr T's/Bluefin issue recently, I can assure you that Bluefin is alive & well and Mr T himself has got himself a chair at another reputable dealer (selling Bluefin's of course) ;) Straight from the 'horses mouth' :-X ;)

[Poodroo]

Just an update guys, was down there today with printout of this thread...

They've been advised to use a plug with 'no resistance' as the standard ones are not as good (similair to POO & QUINNY). So, for now i just have to run it and see if it reoccurs but they're confident that this will nail it... Here's hoping!

Thanks again everyone!
T

BTW guys, for those who were discussing the Mr T's/Bluefin issue recently, I can assure you that Bluefin is alive & well and Mr T himself has got himself a chair at another reputable dealer (selling Bluefin's of course) ;) Straight from the 'horses mouth' :-X ;)

Good luck with the water test T and thanks for the confirmation re Mr T's and Blue Fin boats. Relieved to hear it is all good. Don't forget to run a higher octane fuel with those plugs as well. It will make it run very sweet indeed.

Poodroo

[FNQCairns]

Sadly this is like shooting ducks in a barrel and you shouldn't be going through it, they should not be offering you non resistor plugs in your boat, they can cut through everything electronic on the boat and probably will.

You will get a hotter spark but a shorter duration spark, that's both good and bad.

If your boat is playing up when warm as badly as you say, IMO find someone who can give it a proper tune up as if it were a 5 year old engine of unknown origins and you NEED to know it is all ok before running it at wot for 50min to the fishing grounds.

The resistor plug may help (should) but the bandaid I put on my daughters leg yesterday helped too, she was no healthier for it.

cheers fnq

[kizza1]

could be a few things.
being a triple carby, i have seen many of these that havent been ballanced properly, they should be sicronized and all 3 mixtures adjusted corectly.

secondly the choke system may not be functioning.

what exactly is the starting procedure you use?

with the ones bogging down they need the main jets drilled out slightly.

considering its still under warrenty i would take it to another mercury dealer to be tuned.

also sometimes running a different spark plug can make these engines perform alot better

[squizzytaylor]

I had a pair of older Yamahas (40s around 1990 models) and they dead set would not start hot or cold without choke! ran like rippers when they were fired up but always needed choke to start.