Ongoing saga of the boat and trailer

[blackjack]

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=133639

Well this is the latest update on the boat and trailer saga Blackjack and I have been agonising over for the past weeks...to months. I gave the previous thread for anyone who is interested. Basically:


Which boat should we buy? First timers, have waited long time, want a good one. ANSWER = Seafarer Ventura
Advice from this site tells us the weight distribution on the trailer/towball is NOT ok. Get seller to adjust this.
Our new beauty is in Sydney. Gotta pick her up - night before discover our 2006 Honda CRV NOT legal to tow boat, despite what seller told us. :cool3:

Borrow mate's Landcruiser Sahara. She'll be right to do the pickup. Cheering. :laola:

No problem's except for the bloody Etag drama bullshit fine. :oops:

OK. CRV can tow 1500kgs on a dual axle trailer. We'll just upspec the trailer, we thinks.:idea: WRONG

Take her over the weighbridge. Pretty basic contents. Weight = 1640kgs. :shocked: Sh!t.

Buy second hand Pajero to tow the boat. Great, we'll be right now. Just gotta sell the CRV. (Seriously anyone interested - great car, top nick)

gofishin, God love him and bless him, gives us the good/bad news about the ATM. Aggregate Total Mass. Damn! What is that?

Check the trailer plate. You guessed it. ATM = 1500kgs. Bloody hell! Can anything else go wrong?

Seek advice and get help from the knowledgeable guys on here - especially helpful Chimo. (Even tho' he is a self-confessed GOM, he really is :engel017:)

Check with NRMA on our insurance cover. We have to take the boat on the trailer to have the trailer up-spec'd. Then our Paj will be right to tow her and all will be sweet. Will they just cover us for that short trip? ANSWER = No. Fair enough, :stop: the outfit is illlegal.

No alternative. We have to run the gauntlet. I pray, all is OK.

We hand the whole thing over to the trailer manufacturer. Just fix it we tell him. We will pay what we have to pay. Just make it right!!!

The guy turns out to be the husband of a special (no not that kind of special) friend of mine. Totally trustworthy, with aeons of experience. Coupla days, he tells us.

Guess what! We can't wait to get out there! :P


:guitarist:Let me tell ya a story 'bout a man named Jed...

Hope I haven't bored you, but being forewarned is forearmed they say...(might be good to make sure yours is OK and I'm not trying to come the raw prawn or anythin')
Thanks to our mates on here for all the help. Blackjenny :gorgeous: (and Jack)

[timddo]

Mate, i went through the same problem

New boat, quoted single axel trailer 1450 kg max.

Now boat weighs 720kg

Trailer 370kg

motor 167

personal gear 150kg

fuel 120 kg (150 tank)

Total 527 kg

And this was a new package, Luckerly i did research and upgrade to a dual axel Trailer rate to 2 tonnne

[Tazmaniac]

Yep, same deal with me. Before buying second hand (2 1/2 years old), called the builder/dealer, assured me that this was the trailer the rig was sold on and came in under 2 tonne all up. "Not by much" he said "You wouldn't want to overload it with gear to do a trip away, but it is just under the limit". On the weighbridge a couple of months later with basic gear on board and a full tank of fuel and guess what ? 2.32 tonne ! Looking at somewhere up near 5 grand to make it legal.
Moral : Believe no bastard, if you have doubts like I did, weigh it BEFORE you commit to buy
Taz
P.S. Gotta say I still love my boat though ! ! !

[2manylures]

Is this thread for tails of woe that everyone else finds humour in but the teller of the story {until many months, sometimes years later}?

Hope so!;D I gotta bloody rippa doozy:o

[blackjack]

Is this thread for tails of woe that everyone else finds humour in but the teller of the story {until many months, sometimes years later}?

Hope so!;D I gotta bloody rippa doozy:o

Bring it on 2many!

[ozbee]

crv can tow 1500kg boat weighs 1640 result 10% on tow ball 164 would be about right .

GCM IS WHAT IS REQUIRED NOT GVM

gross carrying mass is the weight of the vehicle plus occupants plus total trailer and boat mass.( in other words the whole package)

you are weighed on the whole package not just the boat and trailer

chances are you can legally tow it with your crv

remember the weight of trailer ( about164 kg up front ) becomes a part of the GVM WHICH IS THE TOTAL WEIGHT OF THE VEHICLE PLUS OCCUPANT OR GEAR ETC) AS LONG AS THIS IS BELOW GVM and the 1500 kg which would appear on the rear axles of the trailer you are in flin.

hope this helps for you to understand. GCM is always stated on trucks compliance plate as well as GVM. check yours otherwise get in touch with dealear he will have that information for you. cheers

[gofishin]

...gross carrying mass is the weight of the vehicle plus occupants plus total trailer and boat mass.( in other words the whole package)...Ozbee, sorry to say but you are way off the mark in a few areas. If you read the other posts you would find that the towing capacity of the CRV is also limited by the number of trailer axles. There is no such thing as “gross carrying mass”. The acronym GCM stands for Gross Combined Mass, although your explanation is correct.


...you are weighed on the whole package not just the boat and trailer


chances are you can legally tow it with your crv...

To remain legal you must be within the limits of the GTM and the ATM and the GCM. i.e. if you are above on one, but OK on the other two, you are still illegal.
The towing capacity of any vehicle is rated as an ATM of the trailed vehicle. The ATM = GTM (mass on road through all tyres) + the towball down weight. To make things simple most trailer manufacturers rate trailers with the GTM and the ATM being the same, hence you can’t transfer load to the towing vehicle. These rules came about when the towing regulations became uniform across all states (~1998 rings a bell).
Remember too that most vehicle manufacturers state a maximum towball mass, and some de-rate the towing capacity of the vehicle – like Nissan do with your D40. As I recall, you quoted that you’re with 3 or 5lbs of your 3000kg towing limit. Are you referring to GTM or ATM? I would say your rig is not legal Check your manual if you don’t believe me, then do the sums.

[trev1]

Sounds like you are being given the roundabout. There really needs something to be done about this as many of my friends have been caught out with boats around the 5 -5.3 meter mark like this. It seems to be related to when the salesman needs to make a boat cheaper to get the sale.( put a smaller trailer under the boat). One of my friends even had the salesman tell him to keep his safety gear in the car" in case the scaleys are around"

[blackjack]

Is it any wonder there are problems with understanding this? All these abbreviations and rules etc. We feel as though you need to have experts more readily available to assist purchasers with this maze of confusion.
We made several phone calls at the time, including to Honda Australia, they recommended we speak to our local Honda dealership. We also rang the original marine dealer who basically didn't want to know about it and suggested someone else. The RTA tried but weren't much use nor the NRMA. And that was just to determine the towing capacity of the CRV.

As you would know from our tale of woe, it was only AFTER we came home with our boat (and trailer) that gofishin :thumbup: gave us the heads up about the trailer ATM.

timddo "did research and upgraded to a dual axle trailer rated to 2 tonne" and it's just as well he did. Who would want to risk their lives or anyone else's running an illegal and dangerous unit? Well done!

Tazmaniac wrote "On the weighbridge a couple of months later with basic gear on board and a full tank of fuel and guess what ? 2.32 tonne ! Looking at somewhere up near 5 grand to make it legal." Well IMO that is just wrong on so many levels. Not only did the dealer misrepresent the truth :cool4:, he caused extra expense and acted irresponsibly about danger. Taz also wrote "P.S. Gotta say I still love my boat though ! !" Yea we love ours too. We haven't really done the sums yet, we know it's cost us a few grand over and above our budget and maybe it's better not to think about it. :-/

Our boat and trailer package is the original set up that was ordered new from a supposedly reputable dealership. It was sold to a Retired Policeman :bobby:. Even he didn't work out the problem. Neither did the second owner. We find it absolutely amazing that these guys drove around with this for 9 years between them. To think they were probably paying for the insurance for all of those years as well, and if anything had happened, they would NOT have been covered. They were paying for no cover, wasting their money, irrespective of danger.

ozbee To the best of our knowledge, what we have done is what was needed to make it safe and legal. What is absolutely apparent to us is that this is a very common issue and we are by no means alone. ;)

gofishin We hope lots of readers of this site take a second look at their rigs. It is not just because we are new to this game. It's fairly obvious boatowners in general are being 'taken' or misled. Many are living in ignorance of this issue.

trev1 "There really needs something to be done about this as many of my friends have been caught out..." Totally agree. We were told by our trailer 'fixer' man that the dealer who sells the package is responsible. But it's really a case of "Caveat emptor" i.e. "buyer be ware", well it is for us at least because this package is 9 years old. In any case, you wouldn't want to have to find out in a court of law after an accident!

Dear Ausfishers, gofishin recommended this thread to us. http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=129567 and it's a beauty. :tekst-toppie: Lots of guys have checked their boats and received a shock. We are right with trev1and his suggestion. Something does need to be done by an authority body and soon!

Yours in safe boating and not paying insurance companies any more than we have to. Black's Jenny and Jacko.

[blackjack]

Just adding more fuel to our argument for a proper towing authority is the confusion on this recent thread in case you missed it. :-/
http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=136050

:guitarist:You'll never tow alone...

[2manylures]

GEE WILLIKERS Jack & Jenny, I wish my problem of yrs ago was only the trailer. This is the very much shortened version.

I purchased a NEW Tinny {3.9m Stacer Seasprite} on Mackay trailer with 25hp Evinrude.

The boat which appeared to have escaped from the factory had to go back to have some rib welding finished off prior to 1st launch & back again for serious vibrations at a later date.

On our 1st trip a casual 4hrs away the trailer fell apart on the way home. It had only been tacked all round, NO FULL WELDS.

The motor didn’t run right, hard to start 1st up & refused when warm & chewed fuel like there was no tomorrow.

OK so I got the hull fixed, on both occasions, shouldn’t have had to & to their credit it never ever gave any more problems.

I received a brand new heavier trailer from Ian Mackay who couldn’t have apologised enough. I was bloody ropable and “needed” to pay out on someone & Ian was the target but he intervened and NO personal satisfaction for me in the abuse department. Hell of a nice bloke, true gentleman & the new trailer was delivered to my driveway.

When it came to the MOTOR, well that’s a different story.
I had it back to the dealer time & time again, OMC’s state service manager came out on numerous occasions to rectify the problem which only got worse. Constant abuse from me saw them replace the powerhead after 9 months of owning the package with the dealer having it for 6 of those months. This didn’t fix the bloody problem. I was told I’d have to persist with it as they WOULD NOT replace the motor. I then rang OMC Sydney & related this entire saga to the general manager of OMC Australia who after threats of me ringing the Yanks decided to replace the motor with a brand new one.

At last I was getting somewhere or so I thought.

The new motor had a broken internal gear shifter, “goodonya”, the fuel tank had 1-1/4 litres of water in it “nother goodonya” After rectifying these minor problems the package was taken to one of my favourite trout lakes {Lake Purrumbete Vic} & finally launched with the new motor installed {at right height & setup this time round which didn’t happen with the 1st motor} She was kicked in the g*** & surprisingly started with exceptional ease. After allowing her to warm up it was into gear to head out through the shortish channel and then power to my chosen location. A quick twist of the throttle & the brand new motor went bluuurrrrpppppp. Didn’t get out of the channel! Back to the ramp to pull the boat out and ready myself for a confrontation like no other when I returned home.

Whilst sitting in the boat absolutely disgusted, pissed off & fuming about this entire saga I got to talking with a local fellow. To cut the story short we woke up an elderly OMC dealer who was also a mechanic of some 50 or so yrs experience who after spending 4 hrs on this brand spanking new motor concluded the crankshaft was bent, something he’d seen before with this product.

I wanted my money back, no if, buts or kiss my arse, money back or else it’s sue you mongrels.

No satisfaction at the dealers, no satisfaction from the state service manager & the bloody same from the Australian general manager.
It was now the yanks turn to wear some good hard core Ozzie abuse & filthy language which they did amongst other things.

After 15 months of utter disgust & bullshit from all concerned except the yanks I got my money back on the motor. What a relief after all this time & crap for nothing.

The 1st thing I did was change dealers.

The 2nd thing I did was buy a YAMAHA & I never looked back.

Would I buy another Stacer or recommend one............YES

Would I do the same with Mackay Trailers.........Definately YES

Would I do the same with Evinrude Outboards........You would have to be absolutely bloody gagging if for a minute you’d even contemplate me looking at their “self-censored”

All’s well now & after almost 20yrs I’m nearly over this whole sordid affair.

After the Yammy went on, I kept this little boat for a number of years and had some brilliant times on both the road & water.

I hope readers will get as much enjoyment from this as my mates & family did back in the day. The shit I copped at the time was some of the funniest in hindsight and also the most constant being updated as the saga continued.

AAAHHHH; the good old days!;D

PS: In all fairness to Stacer boats this happened PRIOR to the OMC takeover.

[fishing111]

You never forget the service 2ML, it will leave a sour taste in your mouth for ever more..

[ozbee]

yes i did mean gross combined mass but if you can transfer available weight from the trailer onto the vehicle and stay below the gvm of that vehicle hence your trailer weight is bellow the 1500 kg. hence this is why a lot of 4 ton boats can be towed by cruisers by fitting a goose neck onto there tray. i would imange the atm would be pretty low on his crv anyhow.

[2manylures]

You never forget the service 2ML, it will leave a sour taste in your mouth for ever more..

NO Paul, NEVER, still have a lingering lemon taste.

I was pretty firey back then and did some things ya'd get arrested for these days. Bloody funny when I think back.

[blackjack]

GEE WILLIKERS Jack & Jenny, I wish my problem of yrs ago was only the trailer. This is the very much shortened version.

Hello 2manylures. I have to hand it to you. That is one doozy of a tale of woe! If that had happened to me...well I would have blown me bloody poofle valve with frustration.

Our saga is more your creeper type tale. We had done our research but we still ended up having to fork out way more than we had wanted to for our first boat. It has value for other boat buyers to know what to look out for, especially the trailer specifications.

Having to spend money on the boat...well that's probably good experience for the future if what we read on here is anything to go by. ;)

Blackjenny :gorgeous:

PS I like your font. The post was easy to read. Cheers.

[blackjack]

Well to put this to bed, we have now collected our up-spec'd trailer. Dual axle, secured winch post, new brake cable, stainless steel brake pads, extra bracing, extra springs and other stuff making our package legal at last. Boat looks nice and secure sitting up there with four wheels below keeping her safe. B E A U T I F U L.

I'd like to give Shane Felk from Felk Trailers at Warner's Bay a big rap. He is the man in Newcastle. Absolute expert in the field. :thumbup:

I will post a photo as soon as I can.

Cheers all. Blackjenny and Jack