Our Moreton Bay ? ? ? ? ? ?

[JIMBO99]

:-/ MY NAME IS JIMBO99, I HAVE BEEN FISHING MORETON BAY FOR 67 YEARS.
MY FATHER HELD 68 YEARLY PROFESSIONAL LICENCES ALL OF WHICH WE STILL HAVE AS HE WRAPPED EACH NEW LICENCE AROUND THE LAST. THE FIRST ONE COST ONE SHILLING AND SIXPENCE FOR THE YEAR. :o OUR FAMILY IS COMING UP TO A FIFTH GENERATION OF MORETON BAY FISHERMEN BUT SORRY TO SAY THIS GENERATION WILL HAVE TO FIND OTHER OCCUPATIONS AS SO MUCH OF THE BAY WILL BE CLOSED TO ALL TYPES OF FISHING THAT IT WOULD NOT ALLOW THEM TO EARN A PROPER LIVING::)
I FIRST WENT FISHING WITH MY FATHER AT 2 YEARS OF AGE (HE WAS A CRABBER IN SUMMER AND FISHED IN WINTER )IN 1941, BOY HAVE THERE BEEN SOME CHANGES. AFTER OCTOBER THERE WONT BE VERY MANY PLACES THAT YOU CAN CATCH A FISH IN MORETON BAY:-[ FREE COUNTRY ????? WANNER BUY A BOAT ???? SEE ME AT THE END OF SEPTEMBER.:'(

[GES]

:-/ MY NAME IS JIMBO99, I HAVE BEEN FISHING MORETON BAY FOR 67 YEARS.
MY FATHER HELD 68 YEARLY PROFESSIONAL LICENCES ALL OF WHICH WE STILL HAVE AS HE WRAPPED EACH NEW LICENCE AROUND THE LAST. THE FIRST ONE COST ONE SHILLING AND SIXPENCE FOR THE YEAR. :o OUR FAMILY IS COMING UP TO A FIFTH GENERATION OF MORETON BAY FISHERMEN BUT SORRY TO SAY THIS GENERATION WILL HAVE TO FIND OTHER OCCUPATIONS AS SO MUCH OF THE BAY WILL BE CLOSED TO ALL TYPES OF FISHING THAT IT WOULD NOT ALLOW THEM TO EARN A PROPER LIVING::)
I FIRST WENT FISHING WITH MY FATHER AT 2 YEARS OF AGE (HE WAS A CRABBER IN SUMMER AND FISHED IN WINTER )IN 1941, BOY HAVE THERE BEEN SOME CHANGES. AFTER OCTOBER THERE WONT BE VERY MANY PLACES THAT YOU CAN CATCH A FISH IN MORETON BAY:-[ FREE COUNTRY ????? WANNER BUY A BOAT ???? SEE ME AT THE END OF SEPTEMBER.:'(

Jimbo
You might have trouble selling your boat mate. All the boat dealers will be stuck with their stock as well and no one will want boats anywhere near as much after a substantial part of the fishery is closed down and everyone is crowded into what's left.

GES

[Fish'n Junky]

Jimbo
You might have trouble selling your boat mate. All the boat dealers will be stuck with their stock as well and no one will want boats anywhere near as much after a substantial part of the fishery is closed down and everyone is crowded into what's left.

GES

Exactly what the EPA want. :(

[tunaticer]

Just another KRUDDY endorsed piece of political nightmare they can't manage properly in the future. I'm thinking its getting time to take Kruddy and his bretheren crabbing for a while.

Jack.

[supa29]

mate it is sad to here the family business is a dieing breed i come from the bush and my dad was the last generation of my family to plough paddocks so i feel for you but the worst thing is it is only going to get worse with the epa and greenys pushing the governments buttons and the blind still voted for them supa.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't think the people who vote for these Greenie mobs are blind, they are just not aware of the things they are voting on. It is a 'feel good' thing mostly as they reckon they will do the right thing byt the environment but not screw the economy....

I also heard during the election last year the unions had a heavy hammer over their members in some areas over voting Labor......they wanted their right to strike back by the looks of it now. Geez, anyone think we are back in the 80's?

[tinman42]

The only true wilderness is between a 'greenies' ears!

[chop69]

yep, she's a sad state of affairs we're in but we can't give up the fight and let these organisations keep placing restrictions on us. every chance you get, let your local pollie know. on a personal note - Jimbo, good luck & all the best for your future mate.

[TimiBoy]

The only true wilderness is between a 'greenies' ears!

I intend, with monotonous regularity, to use this one! I absobloodylutely love it!!!!

Cheers & thanks,

Tim

[theVan]

It is a scary state of affairs......
The behind the scenes agendas and deals are what scare me the most.
We will see in our lifetime further closures and more false science that suits political point scoring

[mudrunner]

isnt 'only' 10% of the bay being off limits to recreational fishermen? how much is to be restricted to pro fishermen?

[Jeremy87]

As someone who has been fishing the bay for there entire life, how would you compare the quality of the fishery to 50 years ago?

[PinHead]

what was it like 50 years ago??? I cannot remember back that far..i was only 2.

[fleety77]

f#@k em mate ill just get arrested!!!

[mudrunner]

is it 10% of moreton bay to be off limits to rec' fishermen...?

[Nicko]

This is dodgy!

Has anyone got a map of the proposed bay restrictions?

[mudrunner]

Greg Haines said while the proposed no-go zones represents 30% of the Moreton Bay area it covers about 80% of fishing spots in South East Queensland used by families and recreational fisherman.

public disobedience. nothing else for it. bad luck, just fish there. fight every fine in court. buy some night vision goggles, and fish at night.

[SummerTrance]

Has anyone got a map of the proposed bay restrictions?

This was the Moreton Bay Draft zoning plan that came out last year for public consultation. There's lots of different provisions, but for recreational Line fisherman (most of us) this is what the colours mean.

Light Blue: No more then 3 handheld rods or lines, with a total of of not more then 6 hooks attached to the lines per person.

Dark Blue: same as above

Yellow: No more then 1 handheld rod or landline with no more then 1 hook per person.

Green: No fishing.

[Nicko]

I just had a looksy, thankfully the new restrictions won't really affect me because I mostly just go out on my own and fish with one rod.
Still, I'd rather they don't change any of these zoning laws because sooner or later they'll probably try jack it up a notch again and introduce tougher restrictions.. One thing leads to another.

[Local_Guy]

nicko. by jacking it up a notch, they will probably add more green zones in overnight and let you know with a piece of paper with a fine on the bottom of it.

up here in CQ. we have had green zones for a long time. and really there just isn't enough fisherman/women to stop the go ahead of these things. pollies want, pollies get... one of those silly thing where they say they are doing it for the greater good. but probably only 1 in 10 fish. so they are protecting the people who don't fish...

[JIMBO99]

jimbo99
The quality of fish in the bay has declined along with the quantity,:-[ as you would expect with a population of over ten times what it was 50 years ago. And remember it took all day to get to moreton in our slow boats with put put engines in them. :P But the single most devestating cause (particularly on the western side of the bay) was the coral dredging on mud, st helena and at ormiston. when I was young there was a massive reef system in all these places as well as at green and king island with niggerhead and plate coral of all sorts. now all of this coral has been covered by silt on the ebb and flow tides. If you looked at it from the air you could see the massive silt trail, from ormiston to tangalooma.:-/ But coral is resiliant and now the small coral clumps are rejuvinating (Albeit slowly) and fish like snapper, lipper etc. are slowly returning to the spawning habitat. It will take time but the reefs will return, just as they rejuvinate themselves after bleaching and crown of thorns up north. I will never see it, as it will take many years, but Mother ocean will prevail come what may. Jimbo;D anyway a crook day on the bay is better than a good day at work, let there be water.

[CB77]

These EPA restrictions on recreational fishos really get to me,
I have nothing at all against pro fishermen out in the ocean, I dont agree with trawlers operating in the Bay & for years beam trawlers have been in the pine river etc , what are pro fishos doing in rivers?

The EPA should be restricting these guys as they would be pulling up juvenile fish and most thrown back would be dead or taken by predatory fish., I once spoke with a fisheries guy who boarded our boat about this, i said here you are looking at our empty bucket when the beam trawler came through this morning and killed heaps of juveniles, his reply was they dont catch much decent fish - My point exactly.

Recreational fishos dont really take a lot of fish especially with bag limits etc.

[GES]

Greg Haines said while the proposed no-go zones represents 30% of the Moreton Bay area it covers about 80% of fishing spots in South East Queensland used by families and recreational fisherman.

public disobedience. nothing else for it. bad luck, just fish there. fight every fine in court. buy some night vision goggles, and fish at night.

Spinner

Mate, you won't hurt them one little bit by getting yourself pinched and fined.

Fines only provide more revenue for the EPA to use for their own purposes and they can also use the statistics of apprehensions for illegal fishing to convince the Government how "bad" the rec fishos really are and ask for more National Parks Officers (paid for by the fines).
It will be helping them create an "industry" and allowing the EPA managers to get upgrades in salary because of the increase in responsibility and work-load and the pollies will use the stats to prove how thet were "right" in protecting the Bay with green zones.

Maybe the way to go is if everyone achores in the green zones with rods in holders but no lines in the water.
Parks Officers will have to check you but no fines and no statistics to show for their efforts.

All cost to EPA and no financial return or apprehension statistics to crow about. ;D

GES

[PinHead]

Spinner

Mate, you won't hurt them one little bit by getting yourself pinched and fined.

Fines only provide more revenue for the EPA to use for their own purposes and they can also use the statistics of apprehensions for illegal fishing to convince the Government how "bad" the rec fishos really are and ask for more National Parks Officers (paid for by the fines).
It will be helping them create an "industry" and allowing the EPA managers to get upgrades in salary because of the increase in responsibility and work-load and the pollies will use the stats to prove how thet were "right" in protecting the Bay with green zones.

Maybe the way to go is if everyone achores in the green zones with rods in holders but no lines in the water.
Parks Officers will have to check you but no fines and no statistics to show for their efforts.

All cost to EPA and no financial return or apprehension statistics to crow about. ;D

GES

better still..lots of boats in the green zones..all fishing..have no GPS on board..do not pay any fines, and go to court.

[Mike Delisser]

better still..lots of boats in the green zones..all fishing..have no GPS on board..do not pay any fines, and go to court.

I'll represent you Greg, "Pro Bono"

[GES]

I'll represent you Greg, "Pro Bono"



M62

I don't know if you are a solicitor or not. But, if you are, I'd be interested to know what defence you could use to beat a prosecuters case in which EPA has indisputable prima facie evidence that someone was apprehended deliberately fishing inside a Marine National Park Zone (green zone) without a valid excuse (remembering, of course, that ignorance of the law or not knowing where you are is not a defence to this charge).

Going to court to defend yourself is the right of every citizen but you have to have a reasonable defence to the charge. If you are found guilty, you will be up for the fine, the court costs and the prosecution expenses of the EPA for running the case.

If you don't have a fairly reasonable defence to offer in court, the Magistrate could view your efforts as defiance and deliberately wasting the courts valuable time. In that instance you'll get knocked for six when he imposes the fine and costs.

As for "Not paying the fine".
When a person is convicted of an offence in court, the Magistrate will impose a fine and costs against that person with the option of going to jail for a specific period in default of paying the imposed fine and costs, usually with an agreed time allowed for the person to pay.

If the fine is not paid within the stipulated time, the Department of Public Prosecutions can take out a warrant against you and you'll be in more trouble with more expense.

You wouldn't be the first one to try and avoid paying a fine and then end up with more trouble than you ever expected.

There are no repercussions for EPA if they prosecute you and lose. But have everything to gain if they charge you and then beat you in court.

Don't give 'em the funding or the satisfaction is my view.

GES

[Shagga]

Jimbo, that is a sad state of affairs for your family. All that history. All the best.

[PIE GUTS]

You can be sure that all the greenies that are thinking of shutting down fishing to parts of Moreton bay are the same people that think Carbon trading is a good idea.

[PinHead]

M62

I don't know if you are a solicitor or not. But, if you are, I'd be interested to know what defence you could use to beat a prosecuters case in which EPA has indisputable prima facie evidence that someone was apprehended deliberately fishing inside a Marine National Park Zone (green zone) without a valid excuse (remembering, of course, that ignorance of the law or not knowing where you are is not a defence to this charge).

Going to court to defend yourself is the right of every citizen but you have to have a reasonable defence to the charge. If you are found guilty, you will be up for the fine, the court costs and the prosecution expenses of the EPA for running the case.

If you don't have a fairly reasonable defence to offer in court, the Magistrate could view your efforts as defiance and deliberately wasting the courts valuable time. In that instance you'll get knocked for six when he imposes the fine and costs.

As for "Not paying the fine".
When a person is convicted of an offence in court, the Magistrate will impose a fine and costs against that person with the option of going to jail for a specific period in default of paying the imposed fine and costs, usually with an agreed time allowed for the person to pay.

If the fine is not paid within the stipulated time, the Department of Public Prosecutions can take out a warrant against you and you'll be in more trouble with more expense.

You wouldn't be the first one to try and avoid paying a fine and then end up with more trouble than you ever expected.

There are no repercussions for EPA if they prosecute you and lose. But have everything to gain if they charge you and then beat you in court.

Don't give 'em the funding or the satisfaction is my view.

GESdefence is: I do not know where the boundaries are..i do not have a GPS..so the Govt should buy me one. Ignorance may not be a defence but not knowing where you are should be. I think I would just ask the Magistrate to give me the GPS point of where he is sitting...see what eh says then.
reality is: get several hundred doing that and cluttering up the courts and see how long before they change things. BUT..some could not be bothered and some could not afford it and i can accept that.

[Mike Delisser]

M62

I don't know if you are a solicitor or not. But, if you are, I'd be interested to know what defence you could use to beat a prosecuters case GES

In defending PinHead I will leave no stone unturned, obviously my client will be pleading insanity and throwing ourselves at the mercy of the court.

Cheers
Mike Denuto- BA LLB Dip LAW LLM BEc(Hons) LP BS JP(Hons) QC of BCF
(as seen in "The Castle")

[PinHead]

"The evidence used against these people was fundamentally flawed. It was found to be flawed by Magistrate Thomas Black who ruled that GPS alone was not accurate enough to convict someone of fishing in a green zone and that proper maritime charts, not GBRMPA maps, were needed to accurately establish a position.”

some info re the GBRMPA..wonder when the maritime charts will be printed for Moreton Bay showing any closures???

[JIMBO99]

jimbo99 Hi Fellas and Ladies,
I have just read your post PINHEAD, and What I would like to know is, if an area is closed in the center of the bay, such as the massive area east of mud island, why is it not bouyed or beaconed to define the boundarys, if you haven't got gps then how are you to accurately define a line which is not marked by beacons or bouys which are within sight of each other.>:( This, in fact any, government department, is usually administered by people who never or seldom, fish. At 70 years of age I have never used a gps and so I will have the expense of buying a unit and then learning how to use it accurately, and I will have the expence of it's upkeep as well .
Lawn bowls is looking greener every day.??;D quess I'll have to bone up on the lawn bowls signals, do I have to yell FORE when I release the ball? and are there any no go conservation areas on a bowling green ??:P I guess some one was right when they said , that the only true wilderness areas are between pollies ears.