going over board in winter

[mik01]

guys,
just curious - it seems to me that (apart from drowning), whats most likely to kill you if you go overboard is the cold water and hypothermia? would this be accurate?

if so, like me, most of us go fishing in thongs, shorts and shirt. while it makes total sense to wear a self inflatable vest or whatever in case you go overboard, wouldn't it also make sense to wear some type of wet/dry suit material under your clothes to retain heat in case of tragedy?

yeah I know its probably overkill, but I'm curious also to hear of the blokes down Tassie way and their thoughts on the merits of this?

whats the sense in having gps enabled life jackets etc if you will die from hypothermia in less time than it takes to rescue you?
I'm sure even out from Brissie in open waters, it would be cold enough now for us to perish from hypothermia before rescue.

[FNQCairns]

Yes cold is a killer, although I never used to today if the water is below 20deg I would ensure I had a life jacket on at all times + a personal beacon and other paraphernalia, at 20deg 2 hours (best case senario) can be a looong time, simply couldn't imagine 2 hours in 15deg water waiting to be found.

cheers fnq

[johnny roger]

In the North Sea you have less than 10 mins to survive the cold water. in the tropics you have 45 mins before hypothermia sets in.

instead of actually wearing thermo apparel you could make it a part of your boating gear to have a thermo blanket and just have it stored. that way when your mate pulls you out of the water, he can wrap you in a thermo blanket and call for help.

now you may want to check this out with your local coast guard or paramedic. its been a few years since i have done any sea survival courses. but if memory serves me correctly, if you happen to pull in a person from the water and hypothermic, you have to point his head to the stern of the boat. this way when your bow lifts out of the water when you are gunning it to safety, his blood will naturally go to the brain to assist in keeping him alive. BUT like i say, its been a few years since i have done any training, so like i say, check that one out with your local medicos'.

John

[PinHead]

you could also get killed in a car aaccident from a nasty head knock..do you wear a helmet when driving the car?
If you thought about everything that could possibly happen but probably won't you would never go anywhere.

[Quaker]

Do sharks like cold meat? :-/

[Roughasguts]

They like the colour yellow though.
My L/C's a orange.

[Jabba_]

How effective would a thermal blanket be for a shark bit????

[mik01]

you could also get killed in a car aaccident from a nasty head knock..do you wear a helmet when driving the car?
If you thought about everything that could possibly happen but probably won't you would never go anywhere.


isn't that exactly the reason they invented air bags????
also - race car drivers wear helmets so it must be a genuine concern???

has anyone got anything relevant to add to this discussion please?

[spears]

Back in my younger days a mate and me use to get into spear fishing comps and spend upto 8 hours in the water

[wilcara]

I would be a tad worried about floating around in a soup of dead fish and the berley I was using if the boat overturned.

Seriously though, it is a serious issue. (I'm a paramedic and have taught this.) I would not be so concerned up north unless you were in the water a long time but bear in mind a couple of things:

Don't swim or you will lose body heat quicker;

You need to be supported in the water by a life vest, and remain in the fetal position, like arms curled in against your body and legs curled up. Most heat is lost through the armpits and groin so avoid exposure of those areas this way;

We all know that the wind will increase problems manyfold (out of the water);

If you pull somebody in from the water do not allow them to move, treat them like a spinal patient, as once the body circulation has shut down due to the cold, any muscle activity like rubbing or movement, can cause cardiac arrest and death;

Do not give alcohol, this increases heat loss, and circulatory collapse.

If you want specific info re temps etc let me know otherwise it is too boring. I think for comparison in the Baltic sea, immersion without a survival suit would cause unconsciousness in about 30 seconds and death in 3 minutes or something like that.

Basically, survival time for a young sober fit bloke in temperate waters and can be pretty good if you don't get nibbled at.

[Roughasguts]

I went for a swim a few years ago out side Swansie heads.
There was a fair chop going and some tide flow as well as a Northerly blowing.

As soon as I jumped in and floated to the surface I was 20 feet from me boat, If I waited any longer and didn't start swimming back, I would never have made it. Thing is if I was wearing a life jacket there would be no way I could have swam back to me boat. The boat would be in New Zealand and me washed up on the rocks.

Then theres actually climbing back in to your boat even with duck boards and a small ladder it takes practice to get back in over the stern. I've done it a hundred times now but the first time what an effort, and every one else that has tried needs help the first time, as to where to put there hands, step on the cav plate first then the ladder hand over the motor Etc.

[wilcara]

Glad you did get back in! The life jacket isn't meant to swim in though.

Once I remember when I got my first boat, one hot day I jumped overboard and swam around for a while then realised I just could not get back in. Tried and tried, no ladder, slipped off motor leg etc. Took bow line between teeth and swam to shore, which was against steep bank in a river, still couldn't get out of the water and was stuffed.

Eventually managed to find and crawl up mudbank like a old crocodile. Funny now I look back.

[2manylures]

Glad you did get back in! The life jacket isn't meant to swim in though.

Once I remember when I got my first boat, one hot day I jumped overboard and swam around for a while then realised I just could not get back in. Tried and tried, no ladder, slipped off motor leg etc. Took bow line between teeth and swam to shore, which was against steep bank in a river, still couldn't get out of the water and was stuffed.

Eventually managed to find and crawl up mudbank like a old crocodile. Funny now I look back.

;D You Goose! ;D Just hit the play button on the mental DVD player. Much more funnier from where I'm watching!

On a serious note there was a documentary on SBS a few weeks back on Canadian Crabbers winter fishing and the perils involved in extreme conditions highlighting the casualty rate including live footage of a man overboard & how, even after being rescued after only 2minutes in the 10 degree F water his chances of survival were still far worse than borderline.

In freezing temps they emphasised the fact that the body basically goes into shock as soon as you enter the water. This then affects any logical reasoning we may have once had & why virtually all who get swept in fall to there peril with a minority of exceptions only

It goes without saying I have had a change of thinking as I fish "cold" being a Victorian.

The Canadian Govt has since changed the laws regarding this 5 day race to see who can get the most crabs for the season by allocating quotas & time frames for each individual boat due to the extremely dangerous nature of the conditions faced for this particular fishing.

Very interesting & informative programme. We take so much for granted with little thought unless we are directly affected. Realisation can come too bloody late.sometimes

[wilcara]

I love that show, it is great, I think I have seen them all. I remember that guy going over, he went straight in and they luckily got him straight out and he was still near rooted.

And towing that boat around by the teeth was real funny, lucky I had a jacket on. After I had climbed out up that mud bank I must have looked like a croc or a freakin commando or something coz I was a real mess. Laughing now tho! :-X

Incidentally I went for an unexpected swim in the Tongariro in NZ recently when I stumbled crossing the river in a fair old flow of chest high four degree water. Now I realise that it would not matter how good a swimmer you were or how indispensible you are to mankind.... when I hit that water, I was nackered. It was so cold the shock was so great and the stream flowing so fast.... I just could not breathe, take a stroke, anything. If the current had of got me say into deeper water in those first few seconds I would not be pontificating here now that's for sure.

It's fine to think "yeah I'm a good swimmer" and all that - it is bullsh*t. You hit your head on the way over or get tangled in a rope or kelp or hit freezing water - if you are not wearing a vest, you are a dead guy swimming, its only a matter of time.

[Roughasguts]

Hmmmm maybe I should get one inflatable jacket for when I do muck around in the back of the boat by me self.

[Mrs Ronnie H]

Hi all
I once jumped out of the tinny in Cabollture river to retrieve my fishing rod that went hurtling out the back. Must say now it was a stupid thing to do as was wearing trackies and jumper at the time and was also in winter so was particularly cold. I had no trouble getting back in the boat but tell you by the time I got back to the boat ramp I was freezing.

I wouldn't like to guess at how long you could survive in the water. I only hope that none of us ever have to go through an ordeal such as that.

Ronnie

[onerabbit]

Only been at risk of going in a couple of times,

the worse of which was a day when I was fishing alone on the 48s ( about 12 miles offshore ),
A big swell had knocked me off my feet, 2 big steps backwards trying to keep my balance, the back of my knees hit the rail in front of the motor,
& down i went,
hit the back of my head on the transom so hard I saw stars (looking up at the motor).
Wasn't good, fortunately gathered myself, I climbed out of the motor well back in the boat, but could have been way worse,

Oh yeah, did I mention I cant swim?????

Muzz

[nigelr]

Good but scary topic. Had an unplanned dip couple months ago. Thrown out of tinny by breaking wave impact. 240ltr esky went over as well, bashing my forehead to the tune of 20 stiches on the way. Fortunately, it didn't knock me out, as I wasn't wearing a lifejacket.
However, I instinctively assumed the dive position as I flew through the air before landing in the drink, and on re-surfacing, had to dive under an oncoming breaker.
With a lifejacket on, maybe could have broken my neck on initial impact with the water, and doubt I could have dived under the on-coming breaker real well.
Then I had to swim around for 5 minutes chasing my circling boat until she conked out. Funny thing, I'd never been able to re-enter the boat from the water, no step or anything flash like that on her, but on this morning, with the adrenaline flowing, I pert near flew over the stern. Fortunately I was wearing my crocs, and 'climbed' up the motor!
I'd like to think I've learned from the experience, having some mods made to the boat to improve seaworthiness, and will be buying a 'stormyseas' type lifey.
I just wonder what sort of compromise it is between being able to dive and swim, and wearing a bulky style lifey. Obviously, if you are hurt, hypothermic, unconscious or can't swim, it's a no-brainer, but it is something I can't help wondering about.
Cheers.

[2manylures]

I just started a new thread regarding life jackets & pdf's so as not to hyjack this one.

These safety devices can be & are a very contraverial topic for many reasons.

Sometimes they save lives & others they can & do have the opposite affect.

I honestly don't know which is safer, ON or OFF when it comes to MANDATORY wearing.

[garman1]

My wife and I were talking about this very subject the other day, I wear a stormy in case something happens on board..but... the question came up about what do you wear that will keep you warm...but... will not act as a anchor if you end up in the water ????
Mandy suggested a scuba top ? Ummmm I can see that scuba gear being a trendy outfit for fisho's...................... I've always just warn a jacket etc

But all jokes aside, what is a warm outfit to wear that won't be like an anchor in the water ?????

Cheers Garry

[wilcara]

A wool jumper will still retain warmth while wet. Anything that keeps the wind off your exposed bits will help, but obviously wet suit type material would be ideal, but you won't be wearing that around just in case.

[nigelr]

Woolen jumpers (as tight as possible) were what we used to wear surfing before wetsuits became more surfer-friendly, back in the late 60's/early 70's.
Certainly worked to a certain degree.
Cheers.

[tinman42]

After 10 years of driving rescue boats in Moreton Bay I have pulled more than my fair share of people from the water. It is amazing how extremely buggered a 20 something, fit young guy can be after only a short time in the water. You are correct 2manylures, the cold water does send your body into shock shutting down your ability to think and reason. And don't think the water in Moreton Bay is not cold. How long do you think you could last today?
Now I have my own boat the first thing I bought was an inflatable PFD1 and I wear it at all times, from the ramp till back at the ramp. Cheap life insurance!

[FNQCairns]

Hmmmm maybe I should get one inflatable jacket for when I do muck around in the back of the boat by me self.

Nah mate it's pretty safe in the driveway, although if inclined the afore mentioned helmet or even a couple of spare mattresses wouldn't go astray;D;D

cheersfnq

[Roughasguts]

That's Funny FNQ, only cause it's true.

Boat hasn't seen water for over a year now, but always preped and ready to go.