Just when ya think you've got it all figured out! or Where's Wags when ya need him!

[revs57]

Here's the scenario - I went out a couple of weeks ago with Swano, from the few fish caught you could see the males milting up to spawn on the next moon, yew beauty, they are gonna go off their heads after some play time action.

Check the almanac, a black day, check seabreeze- the largest water movment tide in the year and the current is starting to rip wider - gonna be good in the shallows - the current will push the fish up to the shallows and they'll be grazing for a feed after play time.

Watching seabreeze, looking good for a Satd'y evening fish, get a call from Timiboy - come with me, yew becha - so plans are made. Thinking through the strategy, sounds good, makes sense, so we hit the coffee rock ledge around the northern 29's for the evening bite - they will go off their heads! After a few drifts for the obligatory moses and small lipper on plastic we decide to anchor up and berley, berley berley - nufin - someone forgot to tell the fish the plan.

A winkie bit of run in the current, - nice little North south run, the berley wafting away from the boat, the sun setting, the moon rising in an amazing way - never seen it look like a fire ball coming out of ht eocean as it did last night - totally beautiful - it cant be long now, the next hour or so look out and still nufin

Timi hooks into a brown coat - a bit of fun for a few moments til it chewed through the leader, back to nufin.

I talked to a couple of blokes, same same, so that made us feel a little better, but heard there was some action happening wider. So we head out to square patch, immediately starting to get a few. Leigh, (the nephew) caught a nice trag, Timi a nice snapp and a few squirey things hitting the deck, then a charter comes in and starts to anchor at the top of our drift! Look I don't mind charter blokes earning a buck, but fair dinkum, he could see what we were doing and he just plonks himself right in the way - thanks mate!

So we adjust the drift line to work around this bloke, then another commercial bloke comes in and drops his pick - makes it totally impossible to work this ground - we were real cranky - next time we go to mooloolabah!

We give this second bloke a spray - fair dinkum, some people think they own the joint - again, nothin against a bloke trying to earn a living, but to drop in on ground you had been working fair dinkum when you think about it, the investment of a couple of hunderd grand for a decent boat and car to pull it with all the gear, just to go out and get a feed - these blokes have no ettequitte or respect and if some commercial bloke reads this then maybe they need think about what's going on...yep, i know you pay for a liscence, but what you did was bad form!

The ocean is a big place, you commercial blokes have heaps more ground and marks to work than we rec fisho's - give us a break!

Anyway, we decide its just not worth lowering ourselves to be like these clowns, so we head into the Northern 29's for a few drifts - but its getting on so we head home, back to Raby Bay @ around 1am.

Thanks Tim for a great trip - have ya cleaned the boat up yet?;) Wag's was gonna do it, but he never showed!::) ::) So we just sat back and had a few coldies while we waited for our soft mate:P , talking fishing and enjoying the memories of the ones that we did catch, being smashed up by some unstoppable - pity about the blow flys!:-X

There is always next time

cheers

Rhys

[TimiBoy]

LOL, I didn't see your version! How was lunch?

Cheers,

Tim

[revs57]

Ahhh fresh fish on the BBQ - it doesn't get any better, thanks again mate

Cheers

Rhys

[samson]

yeah i agree with you mate about etiquette but being a pro as such they cop this treatment hundreds of times a day with amatures with no idea and the law is the law you have to give them at least 50m in all directions or you are interfereing with there operation and liable for a $10000 fine after all they don't go to your work place and destroy your chance of making a days pay its no different in their eyes to being robbed if an amature makes them lose fish on anchor ropes and such but if you were there first you have a right to be pissed but the laws the law and it has to be obeyed.

[bigbrian47]

are charters treated by law the same as professional line/net fisherman???
as charters don't supply fish to the public do they??
cheers brian

[revs57]

Yeah, i appreciate what you're saying Samson, but here's the thing. This big alley cat motors straight at us, at night, bearing down on us at a great rate of knots - note: it is obviously a big boat, travelling very quickly straight at you - we up our lines to prepare ourselves to take avoiding action, as we begin to move, this bloke keeps changing his course to follow us, we give a flick to the rear deck lights to say "we're here, please see us and change course or at least slow down" he keeps coming. Tim gives Bubi (pronounced Boobi - as in German for the Joker in a deck of cards) a squirt to continue getting out of the way, 10 mts from our stern, as we begin to motor away, he brings it off the plane, then follows us to the top of our drift - this bloke used the cover of night and his size to attempt to bully us away!

Well bugger that! He showed no regard for our personal safety what-so-ever. I know he has paying customers on board, his customed pay $150-$175, But what about this fact: Tim has $200k invested in his outfit when you include all the goodies and tow vehicle, we pay $200 plus for fuel, then there's ice and bait, and time.

I'm not arguing for a right or wrong in this thing, I know charter operators earn their money by taking people fishing, and I know its tough - rising fuel cost driving profitability down etc, etc, all I'm saying is where is the decency and respect for other vessels and fishermen and a bit of ettiquette to model responsible boating and exercising common decency. If I was on his boat, I'd be in his ear to move off the drift line and find another patch in the area to fish

The second commercial bloke that anchored up, we watched him come in, he sounded around, and we thought beauty, he's watching to work out where we're working around this other guy. So we're at the top of our drift, He drops his pick right in our drift line! We've been watching hard, there were 5 other vessles that moved into the area so it was getting pretty loaded, and I just reckon these blokes totally ignored any sence of decency and bullied their way in. Bl@@dy idiots is all I can say. I have always respected the commercial and charter blokes and cut them heaps of slack - I have mates who are charter and commercial fisho's so i have an idea of how tough it is. I know some rec fishos blowfly them too - but two wrongs don't make a right.

I just reckon its bad form.

There is plenty for everyone if people can get with the program...that's my rant

cheers

Rhys

[samson]

No charters are not commercial and don't have the same rights they are recreational and have to obey those rules, but the way the rules are written with commercal netters and such is if you are at a location first fishing and are directed to move you must do so this might not sound fair and most pro's wouldn't do this anyway but its a hard way to make a living and pro's pay big costs which make rec's costs look like lolly money.I agree mate poor form by the charter operater they have their bills paid and make money regardless of whether they catch or not but making a pro lose one fish can make or break them so don't give up on all pro's yet maybe he just didn't know your tactics on the day or you had a big drift and that would make your intentions hard to know regarding how you were fishing this area.

[revs57]

Yep, i know its a hard way to make a living, that why i have a great respect toward charters and commerial guys. the commercial bloke, didn't declare himself, he just dropped his pick right in our drift line, had we not been so alert, we could well have drifted straight into him.

Yep, our costs maybe only lolly money, but things like decency, respect and honour doesn't cost a cent

Cheers

Rhys

[TimiBoy]

Is the move on rule for netters, or also for a bloke dropping downriggers?

As far as a Commercial Fisho asking me to move, what enforcement is available? Ie. can I be prosecuted on his say so, or does he have to gather evidence? If so, in what form? Seems as far out as we were it's going to be real hard to make it stick, so forgive me, Mr Pro, next time I'm out there anchored up (bank on it) and you turn up, all you'll get is a gentle dressing down, Timi style.

Cheers,

Tim

[samson]

No worries mate i know where your coming from i had ten boats two charters and drifters all anchor within ten meters of me the smorning at an area i was at first catching cobia and you think i could make them see sense i don't think so but hey they just got a closer look at how a pro catches fish because they sure couldn't,

Cheers samson

[samson]

Timiboy in the day and age of phone footage and videos its not hard to get evidence but when you speak to fisheries about stating out in pro fishing they will insist that if this happens that you take rego numbers or call them so they can come out and sort the problem out but i prefer sorting out my own problems."By the way timiboy if you insist in getting agressive maybe you should read the rules after all wasn't it you who in a past post said fisheries rules must be obeyed or cop the full force of the law"

[turnrich1956]

no wonder the lawns aren't mowed and Jackie is always cranky get off your butt and help out lots of love Rick and Renae lol

[indy]

Pity about the drop ins rhys i have been pretty lucky so far dont get hassled to much, but it is a big ocean and there is plenty of reef around people should just show a bit a respect and keep there distance no matter if they are a pro or rec fisher.

cheers pete.

[TimiBoy]

Well Samson, I did ask for clarification about the rules, so, while you didn't provide it, I'll assume it's a blanket rule for all Pros.

The Law is there to be respected and upheld, yes.

However, when people use it's letter, without obeying it's spirit, It is time for someone with some b@lls to say something and act. It will always be an opinion which drives whether the spirit of the Law is being upheld, but IMO behaving like a sh!thead (like these guys do sometimes) is not.

Unfortunately there are too many damned armchair lawyers (and real ones) that use the Law to their advantage rather than using it to keep peace and fairness, and there are too many people in the world without the bollocks to do anything about it.

I, for one, do not tolerate it terribly well. Nor will I start to now.

Tim

[samson]

Yes timiboy the law is for all pro's and as far as there being any spirit and fairness in laws you've got to be kidding laws aren't mean't to be fair they are there to keep the peace and give people the rights they deserve.

[TimiBoy]

Yes timiboy the law is for all pro's and as far as there being any spirit and fairness in laws you've got to be kidding laws aren't mean't to be fair they are there to keep the peace and give people the rights they deserve.

No, I'm not kidding. And having grown up with a senior Lawyer (and Legislator) as my Father, as well as a couple of Prosecutors and a Medical Litigation Lawyer in the Family, chuck in my Degree as well, (Business, the family didn't need another friggin' Lawyer!!) I actually do know where I'm coming from.

Laws are meant to be fair, however they are often not applied that way. My beef is not with the Law, it's with it's application, ie "the spirit, not the letter". Please understand that there is a difference. You need to...

Cheers,

Tim

[TimiBoy]

yet maybe he just didn't know your tactics on the day or you had a big drift and that would make your intentions hard to know regarding how you were fishing this area.

As an adjunct, we were deliberately keeping the drift very, very short with the specific intention of making it simple for all to see what we were doing. He watched us start, end, and start the same drift. He knew damned well what we were doing, he just didn't care. Very focussed on his own nest.

Bring on the 'nukes, the world would be better off without us...

Tim

[wags on the water]

Getting back to the original thread........Rhys if you need my assistance in puting fish on ice, you only have to ask. But if you want me to help clean the boat afterwards, I'll have to at least been fishing on it first.;D ;D

Cheers.

[samson]

The laws there to give commercial blokes a chance it dosen't mean i agree with it but its needed sometimes to regulate the idiots that make our jobs so hard such as the smorning for me as far as laws being fair i'll agree to disagrree but hey i've lived with a lawyer for 17years my missus but it sounds like she might be on the other side definately not a prosecuter

[tassie]

A man's boat is his castle and like like all castles any one found to be snoopen around it deserves a mouthful of cheek or a rogue sinker implanted in there forhead. where's the morals in these people. I would rather go hungery than steal another fisho's spot.>:(

[skipalong]

ounds like you have to go deep when they keep following

[jimbo59]

Timi/ revs you blokes need to fish south of the group or put the tubs in down the pin and fish pin bar reef, not to many pros down there...jim

[TimiBoy]

Timi/ revs you blokes need to fish south of the group or put the tubs in down the pin and fish pin bar reef, not to many pros down there...jim

Right on the money, Jimbo. I currently nurse my 3 litre Patrol - nothing wrong with it, but the boat's top end for it's towing capacity. My Cruiser will arrive weeks, so I can tow Bubi to the ends of the Earth, without a worry!

Cheers,

Tim

[Greg P]

Rhys - not much point getting worked up about guys like that. I understand too that they are there to make a living and the rules are pretty clear and have been for a while but as in all types of businesses there are ways to make a living and there are other ways.

I had one of the big charter boats from M/ba head straight for me Sat morning @ wide cal. He would have been going flat stick, diesel chuggin out everywhere and as loud as. He passed to stern about 30m then pulled a left and went north - just to ping the site where I was fishing.


Anyway - sunrise/moon set was a cracker - fishing was OK nuthing flash and the wind was surprising out there.

[-spiro-]

Rhys
mate there's heeps of fish on a mark i sent you at the Banks. Snapper and mixed reefies all over it. Checked it the other day

Who's commercial boats are you talking about..there's a few of them

[revs57]

Thanks Greg - Its got me beat why they do that, as if they don't have a GPS full of marks anyway, we were just fishing a generic Square patch mark that everyone knows - I reckon foxy has the right idea, he works an area hard to grid it and work it out, then he fishes it, if a blowfly heads his way and he sees them early enough - he ups an off. He wont give them the satisfaction of pinging him off.

Thanks for the heads up Chris - yeah I've missed fishing M'ba. I guess the thing is these days to do the whole banks/hards thing with the cost of diesel, it adds $200 to the trip to get there and back. Fuel burn on the boat is similar to the gorunds we fish off Moreton and the overall expense is similar to what it when I had the Merc. Thank goodness I've got the f200 or I think I'd be in trouble! All I gotta do is find a fuel sponsor ;) or find some creative way to off set the costs. Also with the Gateway being the mess it is these days I spend almost another 4hrs - 2 hrs each way travel so there is the convenience factor. But I think I'm gonna rethink the whole exercise.

I certainly don't need the agro when I go fishing to unwind - for me the whole thing is a sanity saver, so we may have to return to plan A, fish the sunny coast or as Jim suggested, head south further and away from the weekend warriors. I guess it was the first Saturday I'd fished in a long time - so at the very least it will be back to mid week outings

[Far side]

Yes Rhys Its definately not a good time to fish on the weekends
Midweek is the go
Mind you the lack of manners is not only confined to the fishing community but its more obvious when your the only boat out there.
Its good to be curtious to all people out there I know its hard but if something happens it surprising where help can come from and people who are normally d**keads perform acts of compassion that are totally out of character.
Of course there will always be some oxygen thieves

[TimiBoy]

I've got your Diesel covered - I never ask for help on that score, and the new cruiser will run up there without costing the Earth!

You'll just have to come in Bubi!

Cheers,

Tim

[Crestcutter]

Dont count on Jumpinpin reef or alfs pinnacle being quiet, I'm still in a paperwork battle from a charter company that did the same thing to me on Alfs pinnacle with my wife in the boat. I was there 3 hrs before them and doing the drift pattern.

He decided the pinnacle the size of a wheelie bin that was holding squire and trag was working well for us was his .Well anyone that knows me knows that i'm not short of coming forward as my wife was absolutely shitting herself which made me worse.

Same scene, i was happy for him to do the same drift and share but he decided to acnhor on it.After i lost my voice he upped the pick. Then he came straight at me full noise then turned not more than 20 meters off my stern.

Well that was that, after he did his next turn to come back at me i launched the 213c at him and gave him a bit back. Needless to say he moved on to another mark 400 meters away and probably caught 4 times the fish that i had on the mark i was on.

[iricangi]

I was on a reef fishing well for squire and trags as well with 2 other charter boats who kept parking in my drift pattern also, and when i anchored cause i was sick of moving they parked next to me.

When i moved the "customers" of the charter then proceeded to abuse me ::)

Have fun with ur tangles boys

[TimiBoy]

I wonder how many readers of this forum use Charters, and have seen this happen from the other end? I would hope that they are taking on board some of our comments, and will politely ask their operator not to behave this way in future...

If they are prepared to come within 50 metres of an anchored boat and play silly buggers, I guess I will be seeing some of it soon, as in future I will be anchoring when I see them coming. I will video tape it and present my findings to the Authorities. I'm still in shock over Alley Cat's behaviour on Saturday night, described earlier in this thread.

For what it's worth I have written to them about it.

Tim

[revs57]

Fella's, I don't want this to turn into an us and them thing - and we all get enough road rage driving cars/trucks and given the water is such an unforgiving environment, behaviour like that big alley cat displayed and as Darryl (Crestcutter) described is the height of irresponsibility, among other more colourful words i could use.

I hope this can encourage all of us to think about how we treat others on the water, giving people a bit of respect as co-users of a wonderful resource, so all of our fishing can be the enjoyable sport we all know it can be without the agro caused by the thoughtlessness of the few!

We've all gotta remember the words of Ghandi "let your anger turn you toward a right action". Modelling responsible boating behaviour begins with "me" and its only as each of us, rec fisho's, pro/commercial and charter operators have a mind for respectful behaviours, that these sort of incidences will disappear off the water

Here's hoping

cheers

Rhys

[revs57]

Anyway back on topic - we still had a great night despite the few fish and the hiccup - the Brekkie for sunday clean up was not to be missed out on even if ya name is Wags!

[Hurricane]

Rhys if Ghandi didnt stand up for what he believed in he would never have
freed a nation.
You know what they say about nice guys,they seem to finish at the wrong end.
To me it sounds like bullying behaviour,at what point in life do you stop and say i am going to make a stand.
Rules and laws maybe there to protect these guys,but in my opinion if someone is fishing on a spot or area first then they should be left to that spot.
If these charter boat and pro fisherman have only one spot in there gps,iam not sure i would like to pay for the trip.

[wags on the water]

Anyway back on topic - we still had a great night despite the few fish and the hiccup - the Brekkie for sunday clean up was not to be missed out on even if ya name is Wags!

Still fishing for a bite eh Rhys???
If I still had my boat, I'd let you come aboard and show you (and Tim) how and where to fish.;)

[revs57]

Rhys if Ghandi didnt stand up for what he believed in he would never have
freed a nation.
You know what they say about nice guys,they seem to finish at the wrong end.
To me it sounds like bullying behaviour,at what point in life do you stop and say i am going to make a stand.
Rules and laws maybe there to protect these guys,but in my opinion if someone is fishing on a spot or area first then they should be left to that spot.
If these charter boat and pro fisherman have only one spot in there gps,iam not sure i would like to pay for the trip.

G'day Michael,

Yep, Ghandi did change a nation by standing up in non violent protest, just like Martin Luther King - not that I think this issue is quite as revolutionary - but perhaps it maybe if it translated into whole of life practice it might?

I guess my hope in this elongated discussion is that every water user that reads these comments may consider their actions. I'm certainly not backing off what i believe, and that is a fair go for every one. And yep, if i've found people fishing a mark that I was heading to, I leave them to it, or at the very least respectfully enquire if there is room for me to fish as well. Obviously if they are anchored it makes it pretty tough, but it wouldn't be the first time I have respectfully shared a mark with others and made fishing room, and been extended fishing room.

The issue here is people forcing, intimidating, coersing and bullying others on the water or just being plain selfish and thoughtless.

I'm with you, if I was on a charter and my charter operator has to blowfly someone else I reckon I'd have to be asking some serious questions as to his overall ability.

Mate, we'll have to catch up for a caffine fix soon, or something a little stronger - must be my turn to head norht side!

Wags, the burley is working:-*

[samson]

Timi boy the only rights as far as i know that you will have being a rec angler is that boats will have to stay within 6knots in 30m range as far as that goes you might just have to put up with these idiots, but if charters are going to do dangerous stupid things to small boat operaters you should report these guys because they aren't going to learn either way.
What happened to you guys is a daily thing with my operation and something you learn to live with unfortunately but don't neccessarily have like, i will give you one example of what a rec angler did to me lately when i was anchored balooning with live bait out 30 or so meters chasing cobia a rec angler came up to my spot lifted my balloon out of the water cut my line off with a knife and proceeded to anchor there when i said what the hell are you doing he said your line is out to far and told me to piss off, if only he wasn't 60 odd years old i may have connected him with the bottom of the ocean but just had to wear it and report him which was followed up by fisheries.
As far as what happened to you guys its what people do when they get desperate for fish i guess but by posting as you have it can only help some of these guys understand and maybe think of their actions next time.

Cheers samson

[TimiBoy]

I have had a discussion with the DPI. The Law is this;

No person, commercial or otherwise, has any more or less right to fishing resources than any other, except on the beach where areas can be staked for a period of 6 hours when chasing mullet. There is not one situation where a commercial fisho has rights over a recreational fisho when in a boat.

When anchored up noone can approach within 50 metres.

When anchored at night you must display an all round white light.

When anchored during the day you must display a black sphere, such as a float, on top of the vessel, visible for 360 degrees (did not know this).

So when I'm anchored at night, and someone decides he wants my spot, he can wait, politely please.

Tim

[samson]

Sounds about right for QLD, netters have move along powers and boaties get their 50meters NSW is slightly different.
Never seen someone moved along but would be a funny sight seeing 100 tailor fisherman in a gutter and being told to move in the middle of a hot bight that would cause a bit of ruckess.

As far as the black ball during daylight hours i've never seen that policed.
But as far as what happenned to you guys the law is with the guy anchored even if you were there first you have the duty of care to keep a good lookout when underway and if any altercation occures being verbal or phisical you would be hindering a commercial operation.

That might not sound fair or courtious but its the law, but next time just anchor and claim your spot and you will be all good, till the next clown comes along.

[Fixation]

Hey Rhys,

Sounds like a bit of drama mate. Least you got a few fish and got out on the water. Was it a glass out yesterday arvo?

Regards,
Craig.

[tassie]

For those fellas who are concerned about charters pinging your marks, i would not worry to much as most of them have radar and can ping your marks before you even see there boat, i know this because dad has the same raymarine radar setup.:)

[Skusto]

unlucky break guys we ended up moving further south from deep tempest last sat as it was peak hour out there ended up finding a new good spot that shows in our report which did produce. we actually had a couple of boats following us a couple of times drifting the same drift earlyier lucky they were the drifts that werent producing. for such a perfect night out there is unlucky that this happened to you although i am not surprised as the amount of boats that was out there was unbelievable!

[Greg P]

For those fellas who are concerned about charters pinging your marks, i would not worry to much as most of them have radar and can ping your marks before you even see there boat, i know this because dad has the same raymarine radar setup.:)


Tassie - markin with a radar doesnt bother me. What gives me the irits is when they drive that close to check out the mark with the sounder. Could here the POS from about 2nm away and they just blasted through that close it was ridiculous. If they dont have sustainable marks that get rotated around each trip when running a charter business then they have no business out there.

[reel scream]

Rhys and Timi sound like those blokes were real numb nuts. Their fathers should have had vasectomys before they were conceived.

Speaking to a mate who is a pro line fisho he reckons he has the right to request you move if you come and throw your pick in where he is drifting, but he doesn,t know of any law allowing him to push you out if you were there first.

Cheers Scott

[TimiBoy]

Speaking to a mate who is a pro line fisho he reckons he has the right to request you move if you come and throw your pick in where he is drifting, but he doesn,t know of any law allowing him to push you out if you were there first.

Cheers Scott

You might want to have him ring DPI Fisheries and check for himself. I did. That is NOT the case in Qld. If I come and drop my pick in his drift line, he has to move. Pro or not. He has no greater right than you or I have. Period.

Cheers,

Tim