Cat walk: dangerous or just a feeling

[mangomick]

I often hear people talk about cat walk when talking about the cats handling ability. Is this just a feeling or is it an actually condition that can cause grief for the inexperienced cat owner.

[finding_time]

Just differant!!! The more i drive mine the more used to the feeling i get. I dont think it is at all unsafe because if it was i'm sure i would have got into trouble by now. I have pushed hard!!

I mate of mine is still very unnerved by the feeling and although he admits my cat ride very well he just doesn't feel at ease and would rather be bashed abit more in a mono than be unnerved. I'm sure this will pass the more he comes to realize that what is making him feel uncomfortable is not dangerous but just differant to the the motion he is used to!!

[trueblue]

you can also get the same thing happening in a monohull that has really big chines, and then it is called 'chine walking'.

in a monohull chine walk can get a bit dodgey because if you let it get worse and worse you can flip the boat. easy to stop by just gently turning a bit and it will settle down.

chine walking in a monohull is different to what happens in cats which is quite stable but a funny feeling none the less.

[mangomick]

When do you mainly experience this feeling. Is it only experienced when quartering a wave heading out into an oncoming swell. My young bloke went out in a 5.2 Kevlacat and reckons that it puts the fear of christ into you.
He reckoned that it always gave the feeling that it was about to tip. Is this right

Just read true blues post. I assume then its more when quartering when in a following sea then

[finding_time]

He reckoned that it always gave the feeling that it was about to tip. Is this right



You do get that feeling , but in truth it's not going to tip it just feel like it will:-/ :-/

Does that make sense?

If a mono did what a cat does you would tip because thats not the way they work. so if you base your assumtions that the boat is unsafe only on your experience in a mono you would be wrong!

I dont no how many 5.2 kevla's there are out there but it would be alot and all of these have been driven by inexperienced operator at one stage or another and i have still never heard of one going over! They cannot be that unsafe! They have been made virtually unchanged for over 20 years! And many including Peter Webster rate them one of the best glass trailer boats ever made in aus!

Ian

[finding_time]

A mate of mine ( Brooksey)described it best i think when he said ---A cat is basically two mono's straped together having a shit fight over which hull was going to do the work.

That about sums it up!

[MyWay]

Ian i like your cat
and how you drive

i think it is up to driver
no fear here with Ian behind the steering

[mangomick]

So I guess that it is not only the shorter 5.2s that have this characteristic.
Is it more noticeable on the shorter cats or just a general characteristic on all cats.
Is it more noticeable on KCs than say the Noosa cats which are a fair bit heavier .

[cormorant]

Hey Mango

Are you talking about the way the boat reacts as it works one hull then the other as you go at an angle to oncoming swells - ie walking the cat or are you talking about a fluttering of the hulls fron side to side when it is seriously on the plane trimmed right out and about to launch into space - ie a chine walk type experience!!.
The first takes some getting used to and you can spend all day on the trim buttons to make it a little more comfortable or just not bother. Trimmed out with a nose up attitude but still working the full hull length is my compromise and i just point and forget. The trimming up helps stop the walk in the trough where the hull noses down and youu can get that uneasy feeling it is never going to bite and pop back up but always does. Different cats experience this to different degrees but the really fine entry hulled ones in different seas not trimmed right fee odd and others catch wind under the hulls on crests and lift a little.

A slight change in attach angle of the swell can make a huge difference to the comfort on board dependant on the frequency and size of the well.

Shorter squarer cats do drive and ride differently to longer slimmer ones and many are made rather than designed i the right proportion ( whatever that is). Made I mean as to be trailerable and also by lazy boat manufacturers who rather than design a new plug would just cut and shut the old one lengthening it or shortening it and flogging it to the public to fill a spot in their range. You'll see comments on sharkcats in that some lengths rode well and others didn't. A fair bit has to do with tunnel design and running strakes on hulls as well. A naval architech I know says they still don't understand all the design aspects of cats ( he would be 60+ now) and his son who is more of the computer generation of naval Architecs still says they don't have access to computer power and enough test tank data for accurate models on smaller cats. No one will spend the money to get this data ( they know from experience the data model is wrong) however boat building is a risky and expensive business with little reward for a better design if it doesn't look like the model on the shop floor that is selling well with a good reputation. A new design will take years to get a reputation and no one cat suits all waters.

The chine walk or in a cat - tail wag when trimmed right out on flat water can nhave a couple of causes from my experiences. Can be motors with too much toe in or toe out alternately getting more drive or just motors badly alighned. Motors on different trim settings with different weigh distribution on the boat can also get differeent drive and the boat can get a motion going. Balance the boat and trim motors together and as long as you aren't trimmed out too far and have the right engime height

Boats not propped right , damaged prop, under powered can also cause issues as motors can work from one side to the other each gaining and losing revs increasing the problem instead of giving a constant steady ride. I've noticed it severly when we had a motor that was scoring a cylinder wall and losing power slightly - wish Id known at the time what it meant.'

Counter rotating motors can also help as it meand both hulls receive the same opposite prop lift and no twisting torque is applied to the hulls so they ride both at the same level without having to trim a motor.

Get someone who is local who has driven cats hard and in a variety of conditions or who has the sister boat to yours and both go out and trim your boa and then swap boats for a short run. You'll soon see if you are doing it right or if is just a motion you will ned to get used to. You always learn something when on someone elses sister boat be it something you do well or something you needed to learn.

All boats are a compromise in some conditions and you should never feel like you on you own or the boats limits - well not unless you are really enjoying the hell out of it and someone else if paying the fuel bill.


Good Luck

[mangomick]

Thanks Cormorant
I dont own a cat. I was talking to my young bloke about getting out of the Haines and we were talking about the advantages of cat vs the fisher maxi's with the cavity up either side of the keel.Both in regard to ride and stability at rest
My young bloke had just been out with his mate who had a KC 5.2 and he had the chance to compare our 115 hp 560 HH against the KC 5.2.
He went for a cruise in the KC and he was saying that the Cat walk was really disturbing and I imagine he was referring to the movement or lean when heading side on to the swell.
He said it appeared to lean away from the swell which gave the feeling it was going to tip
It cut up pretty rough on the way home he was saying that he had to cut back fairly hard on the Haines revs so as to enable the KC to keep up. The KC 5.2 was fitted with 60 hp motors and I would have thought it should have performed a lot better in the conditions as described by my young bloke
They were returning parallel to the coast with a fairly stiff south easterly .
I was just wondering whether this was because of the way it was walking about and I was curious as to whether it was just a sensation cat owners get or whether it is really a safety concern. By what you've described It was the way the cat walked and not a tail wag that concerned him.
Thanks

[jeffo]

all kevla cats do it in enough sea....even the biggest.

I Will admit it scared the crap out of me te first few times but like ian said you get used to the feeling and start to love them for the soft ride. They seam to do it worse in a following sea off either quarter, one thing i think that makes it feel a bit worse is when they get up one one side they double in speed going down hill!

My mate has had his 6.5 out in cairns when it was so rough a wave washed a heavy tackle outfit (tiagra 80 and stand up 80 rod) clean out of the rod holder....somewhere around 30 knots had been blowing for days he reckons. Boat had no problems eating up that sea.

[mirage]

Thanks Cormorant
I dont own a cat. I was talking to my young bloke about getting out of the Haines and we were talking about the advantages of cat vs the fisher maxi's with the cavity up either side of the keel.Both in regard to ride and stability at rest
My young bloke had just been out with his mate who had a KC 5.2 and he had the chance to compare our 115 hp 560 HH against the KC 5.2.
He went for a cruise in the KC and he was saying that the Cat walk was really disturbing and I imagine he was referring to the movement or lean when heading side on to the swell.
He said it appeared to lean away from the swell which gave the feeling it was going to tip
It cut up pretty rough on the way home he was saying that he had to cut back fairly hard on the Haines revs so as to enable the KC to keep up. The KC 5.2 was fitted with 60 hp motors and I would have thought it should have performed a lot better in the conditions as described by my young bloke
They were returning parallel to the coast with a fairly stiff south easterly .
I was just wondering whether this was because of the way it was walking about and I was curious as to whether it was just a sensation cat owners get or whether it is really a safety concern. By what you've described It was the way the cat walked and not a tail wag that concerned him.
Thanks

Gday Mick,

I've got a fair bit of time up in glass monos, KC5.2's and KC6.5's. I know I wasn't there but from what I've seen, if driven correctly, there is no way a KC5.2 wouldn't eat up a 5.6 HH in rough conditions.

Your son might have been describing and been put off by the cat leaning out of a turn instead of into it. It's a little strange at first but it's just a cat characteristic. You just gotta get used to it.

I have never felt uncomfortable by the cats "walking" from side to side on each hull whilst cruising. I think this effect is sometimes over exagerated by some people.

Scotty.

[mangomick]

Thanks Scotty
On the way home my son was driving the Haines and his mate who owns the KC was driving the KC. His mate hadnt had the KC for long but has been in boats for a while. Him and the other blokes who were in each boat were amazed at how easily the haines was or seemed to be doing it compared to the KC. Mind you neither of them could know what the other boat was riding like. My young bloke never has too much consideration for my back bone when he's driving:-/
It was his comment on how dangerous the Cats walk felt when he went for a cruise the day before that surprised me.
After reading all these comments it's pretty safe to say its probably more of a feeling than a condition
Cheers
Thanks all

[Dean1]

Cats are just so different to monos, they do what monos dont do pretty much. Your young bloke was out of his comfort zone as in he's used to a mono and wasnt expecting the ride to be so 'different' to a mono. The 5.2 mentioned that was getting blown away by that haines obviously wasnt getting driven properly. 5.2 kc's are a VERY trim sensitive cat probably the most trim sensitive small cat out there, this means that an inexperienced driver is not going to get it to perform anywhere near its full potential without trimming it properly in all situations, and the whole 'sensitive' thing works in your favour once you get the hang of it ;) When I take new crew out they all say Man these cats lean etc. they feel weird, but once they realize it certainly aint gonna tip and its actually behaving in this way to your benifit it settles them down. My mate Bretto just sits back now and nearly falls asleep in the passenger seat now he's been out so much in mine. My old 18ft sharkcat walked in a following sea as in didnt track straight, but 5.2 kc's dont do this whatsoever. You can take your hands off the wheel most of the time. I have to say ive washed my deck rails a few times but thats as far as it goes. Never thought bout washing a rod combo right outa the holder now youv got me thinking!! :-/ Might put them on the floor From now on I think! Cats arent that hard to drive they just take 'practice' and what fun it is learning :D 8-)

[northernblue]

My young bloke went out in a 5.2 Kevlacat and reckons that it puts the fear of christ into you.

Must have gone out with Deano..........:P

[Dean1]

Must have gone out with Deano..........:P He he nice 1 glen, how are the cobwebs going in your garden gnome mate? ;D

[northernblue]

He he nice 1 glen, how are the cobwebs going in your garden gnome mate? ;D

Not too bad mate.


23sharkcat [previous owner] came up a few weeks back to help sort a few of those cobwebs out, I was going to post a photo of him and his tremendous catch...........but decieded that discretion was the better part of valour:-[

Still got a 05 Prado on the market, still looking for a 04 cruiser.......

Tight lines man.

[sea lover]

hi boys i have a 7.5 sailfish it rides grate as long as it is on it tail.

[Dean1]

hi boys i have a 7.5 sailfish it rides grate as long as it is on it tail. Yeah ive heard alot of positives about the sailfishes youd have yourself a sweet ride there mate ;)

[death_ship]

what do ya do about the sea mist fogging your sunnies and wetting your back?