Cheap Chinese Boats

[kingfish101]

Hey all, Just thought I'd bring this to everyone's attention

Some probably know, and others probably don't know, but China's shipyard industry is booming at the moment with most of the larger companies preferring to get boats built there, then shipped to be distributed. Now, an example of this is the new Boston whaler 345, for all the glory they represent, the company charges close to 380,000$ aus for the stand issue of the boat. However, as my recent trip to my friends shipyard in china revealed, buying the boats directly from the manufacturer, some what illegal ::) but only for a mere $25,000 for the hull with it being decked out with all the companies stand issues except without the engine/s Now, I don't know about you all, but a boat like a Boston whaler, which historically, is one of the worst most sturdiest boats, being sold for 25 grand, without warranty is a bargain non the less. And the 5000$ shipping fee is not alot to pay for a world class boat.

Anyway, don't have the money for it :) not yet at least, but I'd just thought I'd let everyone know the massive up marketing that the corporate giants charge for boats that cost not even a fraction of there sale price.

Think about it, Tim

[Col_s]

I'm thinking about it and I reckon the fact that they are doing that sucks big time.>:(

Lets just get everything from China including warranty's and see how everyone goes:-[

Aussie business owner and proud of it8-)

[pedrodepacus]

mate i think a couple of the larger tinny manufacturers are already looking at it if not doing it which will mean the smaller local guys will just get blown out of the water which is the sad part

[TimiBoy]

It doesn't surprise me. China's quality has been improving markedly, and their economies of scale are staggering. They are fast becoming the manufacturing powerhouse of the planet - get used to this, it will happen more and more.

Local manufacturers will either have to adapt by finding niches not covered by the mass produced stuff, or go into Tourism/service/receivership.

I'm all for supporting local business, but if I can save 5 or 10 grand (how long does it take to earn that much?) and warranty/service are certain, I will.

Cheers,

Tim

[boatboy50]

Kingfish,

I don't know how accurate your information is, but I doubt it is exactly the same as the Boston Whaler. More likely a very similar flop with very different build qualities and procedures.

Whaler is owned by Brunswick corp (Mercury), and i'm sure the US has rules about US manufacturing outsourcing their product from overseas and then selling them in the US. I'm sure it's not allowed, and Brunswick is renowned as being a US giant. No way their government would allow it to happen if the rules do exist.

Regards

Darren

P.S. I have nothing to back up my info apart from heresay from US sites. I could be proven wrong.

[Lancair]

A mate of mine has been working with an Aussie company to finalise the design etc of a new 60' cruiser/game fishing boat. As I understand from him, the hull and superstructure will be made in China then shipped out here where Aussies will install engines etc. and finish the boats. As Kingfish said, HUGE savings getting the hulls made in China.

Andrew

[fishing111]

My thinking would be along the same lines as Boatboy50, but it won't be long until the rules are changed, if indeed they aren't already trying to change.

I believe Australian manufacturers across all sectors will be taking a huge hit, really bloody soon, IMO. Most Australian manufacturers will never be able to compete on price, but where I believe they can is by making a far superior item, with top quality materials, with superior warrantees/guarantees, and top notch, and I mean top notch customer service. I know I would buy something that is made in Australia with a 7 year warranty, as opposed to a 1 year job from China.But only if I knew that it is was made with top quality materials, and was supporting Australian jobs, with all the criteria pointed out above, and that they would honour there warranty without trying to duck shove as some company's do. I mean you only have to look at Haines Hunter with a $200 anchor hatch on Fishnet, bloody unbelievable.I believe if that what I said isn't implemented, and people try to compete on price, they will get crushed by the China juggernaut, once again just my opinion.

[Achjimmy]

Kingfish,

I don't know how accurate your information is, but I doubt it is exactly the same as the Boston Whaler. More likely a very similar flop with very different build qualities and procedures.

Whaler is owned by Brunswick corp (Mercury), and i'm sure the US has rules about US manufacturing outsourcing their product from overseas and then selling them in the US. I'm sure it's not allowed, and Brunswick is renowned as being a US giant. No way their government would allow it to happen if the rules do exist.

Regards

Darren

P.S. I have nothing to back up my info apart from heresay from US sites. I could be proven wrong.

Boat boy i think you are right about it being a Boston knock off but dont kid yourself about any rules stopping US companies from remarketing O/S made products. US companies for years have been getting stuff made in Mexico and selling as "USA Made" Germans too. China has an imerging aerospace industry and large portions of both Airbus and Boeings are being made there to incorperate in final assembly in Europe & US. Add to that golf clubs etc etc

[SeaHunt]

Maybe we should also buy Chinese petrol or diesel at a fraction of the cost to run them on.:P

My experience with all things chinese (apart from food) is that the quality is just not there yet and when their workers wake up to themselves, realise they are being ripped off and get organised it will all change, then all the manufacturing will move on to the next third world country.
Straight after the war all the cheap crappy stuff used to be made in Japan, then Singapore then Taiwan now its China and India. :-/

[Crocodile]

Saving a few bucks is all most people worry about, shows how dumb we really are.
Boats are a huge luxury and if you can afford the luxury you can afford to keep some jobs in Australia.
Look ahead, how cheap will this junk be when we are all working for $1.50 a day?
We should proudly buy Australian and keep some jobs here.

[BM]

I don't doubt for a second that new rigs would be illegally, well, is it illegal? a breach of commercial contract maybe, sold out the door of the factories in China. Of course the likes of Brunswick would be seriously pissed if they knew but then again, they would have to factor into the equation of setting up shop there that a percentage of boats will be sold out the back door. They couldn't possibly think that it wouldn't happen. UNLESS, they have several Brunswick staff in key positions in the company in China.

Brunswick have set up for outboard manufacturing also in China. Everything under 60hp I am told will all be chinese made and over 60hp is US made. Interesting thinking that, I gather below 60hp is not of real concern to the company and they can afford those engines to perhaps have some issues but the higher hp units they want more control over. Or perhaps this is the trial run and if the below 60 stuff works out reliable then they may build all their engines there.

Or as mentioned they could be selling knockoffs, built from the same moulds but not the same quality.

ALTHOUGH, for that price of 25K they could be flogging genuine boats. When pricing to build some 26ft yachts we arrived at $12k as a basic build cost with no profit. Now thats here in Oz, so a heap cheaper in China.

Nope, I reckon that it would be the genuine article for 25K. Easily doable.

Cheers

[bayfisher]

mate i think a couple of the larger tinny manufacturers are already looking at it if not doing it which will mean the smaller local guys will just get blown out of the water which is the sad part

I have "heard" this aswell from sources that are in china regularly. Apparently Quintrex or Quintrex knock offs (couldn't tell) are being made in China. Can anyone confirm? I have also heard rumors of other big plate and tinny companies are trying to source suppliers or factories that can make their boats. As with anything coming out of china there is very good and very bad. If the companies can keep quality control up we are likely to see good quality cheap boats which is a definite plus. Of coarse everybody has the right as a consumer to buy what they want and if its Aussie made your after then I'm sure there will still be a good boating industry in Australia to provide good quality boats

[TimiBoy]

Don't you just love how people tell you how (and where) you should spend your money?

The idea that China only makes crap is antiquated. There are more and more businesses in China recognising that quality is something they can provide and still make a tidy profit. Their Government clearly recognises that they can be the Economic Powerhouse of the World if they get all their ducks in a row. They will. They can do everything cheaper than we can, and the quality culture there is growing, as it did in Japan, Korea, Thailand, etc. There are many quality products on the world stage made in those countries, particularly in Japan, as you all well know.

The reality (take time to sound out and understand that word, folks) is that China and India will monster us in the manufacturing world. Most companies in manufacturing in Oz needs to be innovating, finding a niche where they can survive, or getting out soon. THAT... IS... REALITY...

No point complaining about it when your market disappears and all the jobs go. That will change nothing. Whinge about it all you want, it is what IT IS. Adapt or die. It's been happening for years, and it ain't going to stop.

It's a friggin' jungle out there!


Cheers,

Tim

[BM]

The reality (take time to sound out and understand that word, folks) is that China and India will monster us in the manufacturing world. Most companies in manufacturing in Oz needs to be innovating, finding a niche where they can survive, or getting out soon. THAT... IS... REALITY...
Cheers,

Tim

Dead right there Timi, dead right..

My sister is an engineer for GE Plastics (part of GE global) here in Melb and their manufacturing was recently shut down. All offshore production now in Asia.

I guess fortunately, Asian manufacturers are generally only making "mainstream articles" which leaves the more complex or niche market manufacturing intact here in Oz. But anyone here in the manufacturing sector that isn't actively looking to secure their future by changing course in some way out of a mainstream product will be gone inside of 10 yrs or less.

I wonder what Australia will do when we don't manufacture anymore?? Koala patting tourism trips? Ride a kangaroo?

Bad time to be in manufacturing and an even worse time to be in the marine trade. If I were a boatbuilder I reckon I'd be very concerned..

Cheers

[FNQCairns]

Flops and copies have been the normal path for boatbuilding here in Oz for decade's.

Now we have an overseas company doing near the same thing but if the prices are correct but seem without the outrageous profit margins per unit when out the factory door.

Wages in manufacture are are but a small component of the end sell price, next to insignificate in relation, if they can sell at that price it's because they have slashed the 3rd world expected profit margin, nothing much more than that IMO, the extrordinay discrepency in pricing points absolutly in that direction.

A free market is a free market I guess to have it bothways would make it no longer a free market?

Interesting times ahead, esp when some fellow decides to import these uses the true cost of initial purchase/import to benchmark a selling price here in australia.

Did you know the chinese government subsides fuel at the bowser to the populace. At something like less than $1aud per litre. ..just interesting to know, the more that know the better:)

cheers fnq

[bayfisher]

Don't you just love how people tell you how (and where) you should spend your money?

The idea that China only makes crap is antiquated. There are more and more businesses in China recognising that quality is something they can provide and still make a tidy profit. Their Government clearly recognises that they can be the Economic Powerhouse of the World if they get all their ducks in a row. They will. They can do everything cheaper than we can, and the quality culture there is growing, as it did in Japan, Korea, Thailand, etc. There are many quality products on the world stage made in those countries, particularly in Japan, as you all well know.

The reality (take time to sound out and understand that word, folks) is that China and India will monster us in the manufacturing world. Most companies in manufacturing in Oz needs to be innovating, finding a niche where they can survive, or getting out soon. THAT... IS... REALITY...

No point complaining about it when your market disappears and all the jobs go. That will change nothing. Whinge about it all you want, it is what IT IS. Adapt or die. It's been happening for years, and it ain't going to stop.

It's a friggin' jungle out there!


Cheers,

Tim

Your not wrong, I get my parts out of china, our number one concern is quality, And my suppliers are listening. I can get great quality at a great price. There are plenty of customers that are 'concerned' about the fact i bring my parts in from china but in end i put it like this to my customer, I can make the same products here for you out of Australian made parts and I'm happy to do so but the price will be at least double (usually more) for that item because of material and labor costs. Quality maybe up a little but not a whole lot as the stuff we import is also very good. Needless to say I haven't had to make one yet ;D .

Cheers Chris

[Outsider1]

Chinese made Tinnies are apparently already available for sale in Oz. F & B is doing a test of them and the chinese made Parson's outboards, the write up will probably be in their next issue.

The biggest issue with China is that they have no commercial law as such, so copyright, patents and trademarks etc have no protection in their legal system.

There is no doubt that they will churn out cheap boats, as Taiwan has done for years. The question mark will as mentioned be on their quality and ultimately their resale value (if any). Expect the same for cars, 4WDs, motor bikes etc. It is already happening.

And don't forget India. Already Indian company Tata Motors have taken over Jaguar, Land Rover;

http://www.tatamotors.com/

And a Chinese state owned company, Nanjing Autmobile Group bought the shell of MG Rover;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_Automobile

There were over 7 millions new cars sold in China in 2006 (compared to about 1m in Oz). They expect to exceed 10m sales by 2010. There are over 70 car makers in China selling cars not yet seen outside their domestic market, but they are coming!.

The world is changing and the clock can't be turned back.

Cheers

Dave

[TimiBoy]

if they can sell at that price it's because they have slashed the 3rd world expected profit margin, nothing much more than that IMO, the extrordinay discrepency in pricing points absolutly in that direction.

A free market is a free market I guess to have it bothways would make it no longer a free market?

Interesting times ahead, esp when some fellow decides to import these uses the true cost of initial purchase/import to benchmark a selling price here in australia.

Did you know the chinese government subsides fuel at the bowser to the populace. At something like less than $1aud per litre. ..just interesting to know, the more that know the better:)

cheers fnq

They do produce at lower margins, but both their fixed and variable costs per unit are WAY down, as they produce so many. They have Economies of Scale we can only dream about. They are making enough money now; they are most often not dropping price points to penetrate our market in many cases. They CAN produce soooo much more cheaply than we can.

Their plant is cheaper to build, the land is cheaper, electricity is cheaper, labour is cheaper (24/7, no penalty rates, few holidays), raw materials are cheaper (volume discounts, closer to the market, cheaper terms of trade = cheaper freight) and they ship product in massive quantities (again volume discounts).

They don't have Unions telling them when they can fart and how smelly it can be.

I believe the Chinese Govt recently removed much if not all of the subsidy on fuel, in an attempt to start reducing emissions.

Cheers,

Tim

[PinHead]

There is some crap made in China and there is also some great quality gear also. Companies like mercerded benz, renault, peugeot & citroen all have plants there. The Govt gives them the land for the plant, builds the factory they want..the company provides the assembly line etc...using local labour and they build to the company's specification. Mustang was going to move there but the bank would not let them take the moulds..that was the cause of their demise.
Nothing wrong with products from china if they are made by the right people.
Some of the local manufacturers I have had dealings with don't give a rats..they seem to think that the customer has nowhere else to go...how wrong they can be.

[kingfish101]

Hey all, me again, let me set a couple of things straight that I didn't mention. Firstly, they are "knock off" boats but knock off is a harsh term, more or less, in the Chinese free market, they've just re-copied the boat down to the last inches of description. They are not the stamped marked, trade mark copy or whatever, that the Boston Whaler company offers. They are just a re-produced product that bear the same name. Don't want to get into any specifics, but apparently in China's market, everything from naming the boat "Boston Whaler" to selling its company manual is all apparently legal.

Now Secondly, theres a debate happening about the whole "quality" issue. Look, alright I do admit its China and everyone's heard the stories right? But the Chinese market is like the Japanese economy. 50 years ago All the crap that didn't work was make in Japan and look at it now? Some of the finest products in the world are produced there, and now arguable its china's turn, with huge franchises moving there companies to china for the cheap labour and efficiency. But in all seriousness these boats are actually quality. I had a first hand look at one of the boats that was on the production line and I tell you, even the most experienced shipyard company would have trouble matching the cost and quality of the boats. There were 20 odd men HAND POLISHING the boat... Now you really cannot even come close to compare that hand on labour in a 1st world company.

Lastly, little do you all know but more and more smaller 2m-6m tinnies are getting manufactured in china because of the cheapness and effectiveness. And more and more are getting branded "Australian Own" despite only the motor's and engines being fitted here.

Anyway, have fun, Tim

[bobbyb]

who's iron are the using? all these booming economies are booming on our resources . Australia is getting sold by the ton and when it's all gone there will be no jobs...... then they can dump there nuclear wast here. we are the luckiest country in the world why dont we use it for our future instead of cashing in.
we don't need any of them...
sorry got of the issue here butt not happy whats going on .

[PinHead]

who's iron are the using? all these booming economies are booming on our resources . Australia is getting sold by the ton and when it's all gone there will be no jobs...... then they can dump there nuclear wast here. we are the luckiest country in the world why dont we use it for our future instead of cashing in. what would we do with all of it ??
we don't need any of them... yes, we do need them
sorry got of the issue here butt not happy whats going on .

follow the stock market a bit and you will soon see what is going on..the Chinese Govt (which has mammoth amounts of cash) has been buying shares in companies like Macarthur Coal...I think they now have about 40% of it. Plus they have recently purchased an iron ore miner in the west. For a commie mob they sure have a handle on the capitalist system and how to use ti for themselves.
Pity our Govts have not had the brains to organise this place a lot better.

[Fido]

You see what this is really all about. Everybody in Australia wants to keep earning the big hourly bucks but not pay much for anything. So the manufacturers have got to satisy their consumer wishes. So we get it made overseas and import it. In the process the people that want to keep earning their big bucks eventually price themselves out of the market and loose their jobs. This process is going to continue. If it were not for the resources boom we would be in a recession.

That's why dealers are importing boats from overseas because the consumers are price driven.

The cost of labour in Australia is too dear.

[mangomick]

Havent I told you the poor man pays twice.
Can you imagine what the parts of the boat that you cant see will look like. They're made cheap not just because labour is cheap but because they are able to skimp on materials
Think about what you've bought from places like super cheap lately and how long it lasted before you have had to go out and buy the better quality item from somewhere else any way.
Have a look inside some of these cheap chinese 12 volt car batteries for instance.
Youll find bits of cardboard between the cells istead of more durable material.
Western countries who build articles in China are only using cheap labour so they can have a bigger bottom line for shareholders not so they can supply the goods cheaper to customers...........Thats called capitalism........Dont you love it

[Fido]

That's why Supercheap etc are making money. That's all people want to pay.

I would suspect that almost all Marine accessories are made in China.

Where are Dewalt, Makita, Bosch made? I would say some are sourced from china or at least some parts?

It's unstoppable.

[Alchemy]

Their plant is cheaper to build, the land is cheaper, electricity is cheaper, labour is cheaper (24/7, no penalty rates, few holidays), raw materials are cheaper (volume discounts, closer to the market, cheaper terms of trade = cheaper freight) and they ship product in massive quantities (again volume discounts).

They don't have Unions telling them when they can fart and how smelly it can be.



And its not just China offering this type of incentive. I am currently in Malaysia, and the local government in Penang is offering the same type of incentives as the Chinese, (ie land, and other financial incentives). I have also had the opportunity to visit a few businesses. One in particular an extremely high profile electronics manufacturer and can tell you that the level of quality control (six sigma) and general manufacturing culture was just amazing.

These people are hungry, and have a different work culture to ours. I'm sure many here would love to have the comparable benefits of Work Choices over their current employment choices!

We live in a global economy. Australia has one of the most free economies in the world, and unless our Australian businesses find a point of differentiation, then there will be casualties. Not what I want to see, but it is reality.

My guess is that it is just a matter of time until we see an Asian version of a Fisher, Rip Tide, AMM - or perhaps all three.

Regards,
Dave.

[TimiBoy]

who's iron are the using? all these booming economies are booming on our resources . Australia is getting sold by the ton and when it's all gone there will be no jobs...... then they can dump there nuclear wast here. we are the luckiest country in the world why dont we use it for our future instead of cashing in.
we don't need any of them...
sorry got of the issue here butt not happy whats going on .

Mate,

If we don't enter the world marketplace, we won't eat, drink, our sounders will be long sticks, our GPS will be "line up those two landmarks".

There will be NO investment here, you'll have to buy a horse to get around, and you'll light your house with candles made of wax from the bees nest out the back.

That is a 17th Century attitude. It just doesn't work in a modern economy. IT JUST DOESN'T!!!

Tim

[pedrodepacus]

hey guys i recently was in the market for a hydraulic press brake and i was talking to a machinery dealer thats involved in importing these type of machines from china and i expressed my concerns as to the quality of there machines as we had a chinese guillotine which spent more time broken down than working and he explained to me that you can go over there and screw them down on price as much as you want and the quality of the job or machinewill reflect that he said that they tried it and machines used to turn up half finished with bolts not tightened wiring not connected etc etc however spend a little more like an extra 50 or 100 bucks and that means a coupleof workers can spend another week on that same machine and finish it off properly . so i guess it it will basically boil down to the people that are going to import the product as to wat quality of product they will bring in the chinese will just build to the quality that the customer wants i would imagine

[nigelr]

Certainly the Chinese and Indians are not fools, in fact as far from it as one could imagine. Ultimately, you get what you pay for, regardless of where it is made.
Further to what Col said, there will always be a market for a top quality product, with all the service and warranty that goes with it, there will always be people who are able to afford it and certainly plenty who aspire to be able to afford it...........
What might be of great signifigence, is how the prices of Chinese(and other similar nations) exports may increase when their own domestic consumer markets swing into top gear.............which will not be too far away...............
Off topic, but if you look at where the cutting edge of scientific research and development is happening, it is in the US, and Europe/GB/Japan to a lesser extent.
These nations have realised it's (technology) the growth area of the future.
They've given up on their large scale manufacturing industries and put enormous financial resources into higher education, technology, research and development. They still pander to their farming lobbies however, after all, the punters have to eat hehehe.
What happened to the idea of Australia being the 'clever country'?
This is the boat we had better get our kids on board..........
Cheers.

[Outsider1]

One of the things that seems to get missed in the China phenomena is the positive spin offs that Australia has seen so far.

The obvious one is the resources boom, driven very much by China's emergence and thirst for growth. That has driven up our tax receipts so far in recent years that our governments continue to give it back us via tax cuts. That has enabled wages growth to have some sort of semblance of control over one of the greatest boom periods in history, no mean feat! It has also lead to the lowest levels of unemployment in living memory.

And China's cost competitiveness has driven down the price of so many consumer goods! electronics are a great example, computers, TVs, cameras etc all getting cheaper and better all the time. Imagine what level inflation would be running at without that!

Yes jobs and work have shifted offshore and that will continue, but it is not all bad. I do agree however that as a nation we need to adapt to the global economy and ensure our future and not just continue to ride on the "sheep's back", so to speak!.

Have a look at the United Arab Emirates (Dubai) as an example of what can be done. One of the world's largest oil producers, but it is running out fast. They have plowed mega billions into tourism, business and infrastructure to ensure there is a future when the oil runs out.

Cheers

Dave

[paul cooper]

I Agree Nothing You Buy From China Lasts Its All Crap Crap Crap Coop

[FNQCairns]

The joyride does seem to be over, what outsider said regarding the price of many retail commodities plummeting in price over time offsetting (official) rampant inflation at the household door is finally coming to a head....it's now too late for a managed approach reflecting the true cost of living to stop this compression wave.

House prices have officially dropped in all states, the first time since the depression! - the first time since the depression!!!, interest rates are to go up again soon, we were managed by entrepreneurs for the last 10 years, they believed in the magical trickle down precept to just make it all ok it didn't happen.

Will a 3rd world (or the north) slowdown also affect the Chinese. Taiwanese etc who are value adding our raw materials! If there is a turn down in the minerals we will no longer have any legs underneath us, talk about a managed elitist highflying house of cards they built for us this last 10 years!!!

cheers fnq

[tigermullet]

Spot on FNQ. The piper is about to be paid - big time.

[bugman]

Well I can't fix the world but I can tell you that Deep Vee on the Gold Coast are getting their fibreglass work done in China; hulls, consoles, etc.

I'm not sure whether the boat is then assembled in China or the parts shipped back here.

Either way - they identified quite some years ago that to remain competitive in the luxury boat market they had to reduce costs - hence China.

I've seen a couple and when you compare them to the old blackwatches - or Deep Vees for that matter - well:-X

On another note - why buy anything new. Wait a few more months or even a year and when the slide really turns into a crash you'll be able to pick and choose from thousands of second hand boats at next to nothing prices.

All those people that took advantage of their "ëquity" from the family home etc will be back peddalling faster than the value of the US Peso to put the cash back into things that really matter.

Take a look at the market in the States for second hand bigger cruisers and game boats - it's flooded and cheap. It's already happening here but not to the same extent.

Brett

[TimiBoy]

The joyride does seem to be over, what outsider said regarding the price of many retail commodities plummeting in price over time offsetting (official) rampant inflation at the household door is finally coming to a head....it's now too late for a managed approach reflecting the true cost of living to stop this compression wave.

House prices have officially dropped in all states, the first time since the depression! - the first time since the depression!!!, interest rates are to go up again soon, we were managed by entrepreneurs for the last 10 years, they believed in the magical trickle down precept to just make it all ok it didn't happen.

Will a 3rd world (or the north) slowdown also affect the Chinese. Taiwanese etc who are value adding our raw materials! If there is a turn down in the minerals we will no longer have any legs underneath us, talk about a managed elitist highflying house of cards they built for us this last 10 years!!!

cheers fnq

LOL, get out your umbrella Mate, the sky is falling on your head!

Prices in Brisbane fell 2% in 1995, and I know it's happened elsewhere at times since the depression. Yes we are in for some tougher times than we've had for the last ten, but I hardly think we need prepare for armageddon.

People just need to be smart. A lot haven't over the last few years, and will be bitten hard. But for those who've kept their brains out of their trousers, most will cope fine, and some will do very well. There will be lots of bargains out there, while the overstretched pull in their belts.

I predict that in another year or so we will be seeing stable inflation, possibly a fall in interest rates, and a subdued recovery. I doubt that Oz will even hit recession status.

Yes, the world will look different. We might even see a move toward the $Euro from the $US. But our commodities will still be pouring into Asia, and we will still be riding that boom, as we will for many years to come.

Stop believing everything the media says. Remember they tell us what they think will sell their product. Nothing more. And vote with your head, not your heart.

Whoa there, people!;D;D;D

Tim

[tigermullet]

"Stop believing everything the media says".

Excellent advice.

If the media is to be used as an analytical tool and acted upon, then disaster will surely follow the reader. Much of it is 'feel good' stuff and causes us to believe that our houses will always rise in value, credit is always available and superannuation is absolutely guaranteed to give you a nice retirement.

Why not buy another big boat, car or house? Hell, let's get em all.

The news is just catching up on what has been evident behind the scene since last March to October.

I've got umbrellas sticking up all over the place and am sheltering under the largest of them;D

[on-one]

I think Tim's right, things have been so good for the past ten years it can get a lot worse and still be pretty good.

Some people are probably going to learn that borrowing as much as the bank is willing to lend and randomly buying 'investment properties' wasn't such a good move but that was always going to happen.

As for china and india they're a lot of competition but the growth they're going through is also generating enormous amounts of consumers - now we've just got to concentrate on finding something to sell them

[nigelr]

As for china and india they're a lot of competition but the growth they're going through is also generating enormous amounts of consumers - now we've just got to concentrate on finding something to sell them


That could well be food.........tho' whether it will come from Aus is another matter..........

[Dirtysanchez]

I've worked in the electronics industry for 22 years now and I can tell you it is almost condisered trendy to say you get your circuit boards made in China, in fact one customer has moved up there to run his production, and enjoy the finer things in his life :(

In Aus we need to make about 25% margin to keep above opex, and pay the bills to effectively show a return on the capital we invest in the business, as opposed to say putting money in the bank, which is quite viable at the moment.
Because in China they have low tax, and wages, they operate off 5 to 7% gross profit margins, and they can dictate the conditions for the workers, where here if you don't like the colour of the toilet paper you can protest. >:(

I am not saying I agree with their mentality, but thats how they succeed now. One customer tells the Chinese manufacturer to make 10,000 boards in 2 lots, he only uses about 7000 per annum. Thing is they are about a third of the price, so he does a simple test, and drills down to about the 7000 that are known good, and it costs him about half the cost it would to have them done locally.:-X

Frankly it does not surprise me that more and more manufacturers are going offshore to China and India.. it simply costs less, and provides the owners or share holders better profitability :-[

Before you jump down my neck, wouldn't you do the same ? if Shell had petrol for $1.50 a litre, and Xhung Phao petrol inc down the road had it for $1.40, you would drive the 1.5km to buy the cheaper one.. We are all guilty :P

Beer is the only thing I reckon they will never send OS to be made, well not mine anyway, I make my own ;D

[manchild]

One thing that nobody mentioned so far is the freightcost.I can land a 40 foot container from china under $1000 full of stuff.Have you tried bring a boat up from melbourne lately?
George

[KGW3]

It's pretty scary what is happening in Bejing.. Because of it, we can get a brand new mountain bike with 16 gears and frame/fork springs for under $100.00 They were more expensive than that in 1969.. A new Dragstar was $120.00. :o


But they can't possibly keep up those sort of prices and also maintain any sort of quality..

[scorpionNQ]

I visit china on a regular basis for my own business. It is a eye opener to say the least. There quilty is getting better, but, as with many other business owners I know, we mostly have (employ) our own QC persons or companies. Speaking of Chinese boats, Here are a few pics of a 6m c/c fibreglass hull I am thinking of importing. These hulls are complete minus engine and electronics. Foam filled with cable steering, canopy, bowrails, fuel tanks, live bait.....



sum

30778

30779

30780

Hope these work ,as I have never attached pics before.

These weren't designed by the Chinese, however they are good copiers. It looks like an American style.
You wouldn't beleive the price if I told you.:)

[bayfisher]

One thing that nobody mentioned so far is the freightcost.I can land a 40 foot container from china under $1000 full of stuff.Have you tried bring a boat up from melbourne lately?
George

:o :o :o $1000? are you sure? Our 40 footers cost a lot more than that out of china.

[kingfish101]

ok news update from me... James... my other friend, bought the 345 with extra features from the shipyard in china for 50 grand. Costed around $3400 to ship it to Melbourne. He's trial run was on sunday, he said it was perfect.
So he pratically saved around what? 430,000$?

[FNQCairns]

One of these!!!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-qZ58nVHpE&feature=related


Here is a price:

http://www.sportfishingmag.com/boats/boats/boston-whaler-345-conquest-54222.html

would be interesting to hear just how he fitted it up, to assume a final cost.

cheers fnq

[disorderly]

I
These weren't designed by the Chinese, however they are good copiers. It looks like an American style.
You wouldn't beleive the price if I told you.:)

So....do please tell us....How much to land one of those little suckers here??

Scott

[FNQCairns]

Scott the hullform on those reminds me of a classic seacraft, if it is then it would be an honest to goodness top offshore rig.

Yes please do tell the price.

cheers fnq

[FNQCairns]

http://hyboats.en.ecplaza.net/4.asp

[datamile]

Contact :
Mr. Bruce Lee
manager, export ;)

[disorderly]

Scott the hullform on those reminds me of a classic seacraft, if it is then it would be an honest to goodness top offshore rig.

Yes please do tell the price.

cheers fnq

Thanks for the link,Scott...it looks like a tidy unit,doesn't it.http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/smiley.gif
I'd love to know the landed cost....
It's difficult to imagine how the local boat manufacturers intend to survive...unless they just become resellers for their hulls built in china.

If you have a spare umbrella..I'll take one toohttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/wink.gif.

[tigermullet]

I am just about out of umbrellas and need just a few more days to sling a tarp over the lot of them.

Why? The China story seems okay except for their falling exports and long supply and distribution lines. Razor thin margins, rising energy costs, falling domestic markets, malinvestment and financial stress can turn their domestic demand off as quick as switching off a light.

On top of that we have just had three warning shots across the bows by the United States Ship, "Black Hole of Debt and Derivatives"

The first - a sixteen inch shell labelled Bear Stearns; second, an eight inch shell carrying the name Indy Mac Bank; the last sixteen incher has rattled the rivets and was labelled Fannie and Freddie.

I hope the captain is in charge and we will do a one eighty and go racing back to port but if it's the Irish Exec officer on the bridge he's liable to yell out, " Let's do a three sixty and get the hell out of here!":P

My lifejacket is on and the life boats are looking very attractive right now.;D

[scorpionNQ]

Those that are interested in a price or more info can pm me.

Stevea, I have tried to pm you a reply, and it said it can't find you. As you can pm me, send your e-mail addy and we can go from there.
Cheers
Lee

[KGW3]

The Germans still make about 5 brands of luxury car and they are still much in demand at any price.. This is because they have a good reputaion for quality, performance and innvation. That's the only attitude Aussie manufacturing can take.. Make good stuff and people will pay for it.