What size/type of rod do we use for bottombashing?

[Dean1]

Hi guys, curious as what lenght/size rod we are using for bottombashing? I use a 10-15kg t curve spin for floatlining and a tyrnos heavy 15-24kg for bottombashing with a tyrnos 30 overhead. Ive been losing to many fish since ive bought this new tyrnos heavy rod it obviously hasnt got enough give in it when using braid. Love to hear your comments. Thanx in advance, Deano.

[RFARREN]

mate get a sabre/seeker they have soft tips and lock up once the tip is flexed
i use a 6455xxh sabre and it is by far the best bottom rod i have used
also try using a longer mono leader(i use about 6 feet) it gives the whole rig a bit of stretch but not too much
braid is very unforgiving if you really lift hard and fast and tends to break at knots / or just drop fish
just my opinion
cheers
Ron

[metaloid]

I've built myself a 7" live-baiting/bottom bashing heavy rod on a glass-graphite composite (it's called triflex from Lamiglas) looking for that magic action (soft and gutsy) but I haven't hooked anything decent on it yet (why did that 13kg cobe eat the jig instead of the live bait!!!:-[) so the verdict is still out... However, if you fish heavy drag settings, definitely use a good length (3 meters) of a good quality shock leader, it makes a HUGE difference on braid. And of course make sure to double or triple check your knots after every fish...but that's another sad story!:-[

[Lucky_Phill]

Deano.... I use at least 10 meters of leader on my braided reels. That allows the ' stretch ' to happen.

80lb braid and 80 or 100lb leader

50lb braid and 60 or 80lb leader

I also use a 6' 6" hastings Fast taper 15-24kg stick. no problems there.

This is for bait/ bottom bashing, for jigging, a stick with more give like a medium taper would be better suited.

Also look at your hook selection........

when you say loosing fish, I presume you believe you are pulling the hooks, not getting busted off ?

Cheers Phill

[BenatCoffs]

Just had a think about it - both of my bottom bouncing outfits (both are pretty different setups) use composite rods - ie glass tip, graphite butt. This gives plenty of tip flex. I also use up to 10' of mono leader sometimes more if needed (eg I expect a lot of re-ties I use more)

[FNQCairns]

What about a Silstar crystal blue power tip jig? I use one and simply couldn't blame it before me, approx $160 so the price is great. I am not up with the rods as many blokes are but it's a hard rod to complain about for my purposes anyway.

cheers fnq

[Dean1]

Deano.... I use at least 10 meters of leader on my braided reels. That allows the ' stretch ' to happen.

80lb braid and 80 or 100lb leader

50lb braid and 60 or 80lb leader

I also use a 6' 6" hastings Fast taper 15-24kg stick. no problems there.

This is for bait/ bottom bashing, for jigging, a stick with more give like a medium taper would be better suited.

Also look at your hook selection........

when you say loosing fish, I presume you believe you are pulling the hooks, not getting busted off ?

Cheers Phill Hi Phill, yeah mate pulling the hooks. I normally use about 4 metres of 40-50lb of mono leader on 50lb braid. I use 7/0 mustad biggun hooks. Its hard to resist puttin a bit of hurt on when you feel the bigfellas jump on, maybe im giving them a bit too much but if I back the drag off it feels like I havent set the hook properly. I had a gary howard 'bommie busta' before this rod and it didnt seem to give me this grief. Definately keeps me interested! Keep em coming guys, thanks Deano.

[lippa]

that combo u are using is way overkill for offshore flathead fishing dean.

go grab one of those tyronos 12 or 16, i think they are, and put it on a 15kg live fibre. around 7 foot

perfect for the calibre of fish you catch mate.

sell that big combo you have on ebay, u cant get fish big enough to warrant it!!!

cheers

lippa

[Lucky_Phill]

OK Dean,

Now, are you using Paternoster rigs or hooks at the end of the leader.

Paternosters work good in some / most cases, but if you are after big fish, I would go something like 2 gang 7/0 VMC 9255PS hooks, swivel on top hook and ball sinker to suit conditions, with the addition of Lumo tube ( about 10 - 25mm ) between the swivel and sinker.

Others swear by Tuna Circle hooks and I have used them and they are good. Also the Tru Turn hooks in your prefered size will/ could result in a better hook-up rate.

I prefer VMC's as they are strong, extra sharp out of the box ( cone cut, not chemically sharpened ) , half the price of Mustard's and are perma steel, so rusting is not an issue and gang easily. Not all tackle stores stock these, and we won't go into why this is so......( if you want to give some vmc's are try, pm me and i'll get some to you )

Don't worry about hitting them hard or backing the drag off. Pre-set your drag and leave it alone. The VMC's or other good hooks will penetrate the fish's mouth and produce a solid hook up. Have faith in the gear.

As a side note and do not want to go too far into this area, I do not use chem sharpened hooks offshore.

Cheers Phill

[Dean1]

OK Dean,

Now, are you using Paternoster rigs or hooks at the end of the leader.

Paternosters work good in some / most cases, but if you are after big fish, I would go something like 2 gang 7/0 VMC 9255PS hooks, swivel on top hook and ball sinker to suit conditions, with the addition of Lumo tube ( about 10 - 25mm ) between the swivel and sinker.

Others swear by Tuna Circle hooks and I have used them and they are good. Also the Tru Turn hooks in your prefered size will/ could result in a better hook-up rate.

I prefer VMC's as they are strong, extra sharp out of the box ( cone cut, not chemically sharpened ) , half the price of Mustard's and are perma steel, so rusting is not an issue and gang easily. Not all tackle stores stock these, and we won't go into why this is so......( if you want to give some vmc's are try, pm me and i'll get some to you )

Don't worry about hitting them hard or backing the drag off. Pre-set your drag and leave it alone. The VMC's or other good hooks will penetrate the fish's mouth and produce a solid hook up. Have faith in the gear.

As a side note and do not want to go too far into this area, I do not use chem sharpened hooks offshore.

Cheers Phill Mate I use paternoster sometimes but have been running 3 ganged 6/0 tru turns with a big ball sinker lately on the bottom. I use the same 3 gang hook setup on my floatline. I'll pm ya bout those hooks Phill, Cheers Deano.

[lippa]

i bought some 5/0 vmc's the other day, for ganging with swivels
seem like a good hook, just be interesting to see how strong they are

bcf have them. unfortunatly we dont have a independant tackle store to support in our area.

[Spaniard_King]

Dean,

I shouted myself a Loomis Obsidian 15-25lb Custom Willo stick bound in a spiral wrap;D a trully awsome weapon...heavy enough to pull a 60lb ambo with ease.. has a good feel when fishing light and still the grunt when needed. I normally fish 50 braid on this but will change to 60 mono for 1770 shortly;) .

I also fish a long mono leader with the braid...at least 8-10 m and usually with Owner circle hooks.

The loomis arn't cheap but once you have one you can see the value.

Just don't tell my missu how much there worth otherwise I could be in big trouble:-[

[jtpython]

I use a24 kg power tip rod a G40L Phuger reel with 80 lb mono with a 100lb leader with a Barrel sinker in a double leader rig with a 7 /0 Youvella Octopus Hook , not much gives it a run for it's money on the bottom . I only use braid on my spanish spinning outfit

[supa29]

hey flathead king, mate if i told everyone on here what iused they will think im a cheap arse but if you get a 6 to 8 kg soft tip rod, any brand and it doesnt have to cost a fortune. mate i comes down to a soft tip to spring the weight and how you fight the fish, your broom stick is way to heavy for what you are doing, i will get you one of my sticks but you got to drop a size or two in your reel to[ to high of a retrieve] go for a tld 15 or 20 size reel and go to circle hooks and your catch rate will shoot up to at least 5 flathead a trip and a couple more trips with me and you mite start catching a snapper or 2.

yeeeeha i love riding the wild cat.

[Lucky_Phill]

Garry,

I haven't used one of the spiral rods yet, but had my hands on one a little while ago.

I note that " Bushy " uses them and the first time I saw one in action I though it was " weird " but apparently they are great.

lippa, they are good, but 5/0's will not stand up to Ambos etc, but I have used them on snaps up to 7kg with no issues, and also pulled a 30kg Cobe on 2 gang 5/0 VMC's not that long ago ( using all mono line though ) ... all in the drag, I suppose.

Some of us ( 1770 freaks ), use anything up to 12/0's for big reds and nannis.

Deano,

never ganged Tru-turns............ hope the ' turn ' in the hook as a gang does not affect the hook-up ?

cheers Phill

[Dean1]

Garry,

I haven't used one of the spiral rods yet, but had my hands on one a little while ago.

I note that " Bushy " uses them and the first time I saw one in action I though it was " weird " but apparently they are great.

lippa, they are good, but 5/0's will not stand up to Ambos etc, but I have used them on snaps up to 7kg with no issues, and also pulled a 30kg Cobe on 2 gang 5/0 VMC's not that long ago ( using all mono line though ) ... all in the drag, I suppose.

Some of us ( 1770 freaks ), use anything up to 12/0's for big reds and nannis.

Deano,

never ganged Tru-turns............ hope the ' turn ' in the hook as a gang does not affect the hook-up ?

cheers Phill Hi phill, mate i use swivels between the hooks when ganging the tru turns. Shouldnt affect the hook up?? Mmm 1770 i cant wait to get up there, planning a trip this year. Never struck good weather up there yet but ive never had a cat up there. Still undecided on the rod business :-/

[Dean1]

hey flathead king, mate if i told everyone on here what iused they will think im a cheap arse but if you get a 6 to 8 kg soft tip rod, any brand and it doesnt have to cost a fortune. mate i comes down to a soft tip to spring the weight and how you fight the fish, your broom stick is way to heavy for what you are doing, i will get you one of my sticks but you got to drop a size or two in your reel to[ to high of a retrieve] go for a tld 15 or 20 size reel and go to circle hooks and your catch rate will shoot up to at least 5 flathead a trip and a couple more trips with me and you mite start catching a snapper or 2.

yeeeeha i love riding the wild cat. Hey Kel i didnt think youd find this post! ;D Gotta say that rod of yours is value for money, lotta bang for your buck! I'll try a springier rod mate, cant have you showin me up! Glad you finally came out for a run in my kc, i think you had fun gettin all that airtime 8-)

[roz]

Deano, it might pay to try out a few different types of rods (if you have friends willing to lend of course!!)

For my money, around 6-7' with a fast taper or medium to fast is the way to go, again that is a personal opinion. I also find 10 to 15kg or just a tad heavier, handles just about all situations re bottom bashing.

As for brands, well like most things you get what you pay for. I really would stay away from the el cheapo rods.

You really do need to find a well stocked tacke store and have a play with the different brands and styles. Ask to be shown different tapers, also worth the trouble of taking along and attaching your reel, after all would you go out and buy a car without taking it for a test drive??? Big price difference I know, but I don't think that matters.

You didn't mention if you intend building your own, however I must mention if you want to give that a go, it's well worth the effort, on the other hand you're unlikely to save $$$$, but job satisfaction is huge... and it's NOT difficult!

good luck with which ever way you go.

r.

[ctwaddle]

I use a Shakesphere Tidal Water and find that it works well with a TLD20 a bit stiff but good for pulling large mouth from the bottom. But then again its just what your used to. Have a look at the Silstar Crystal Blue Tips, very nice 10-15kg rod, very light and super strong

[Spot82]

I have used a variety of combos for bottom bashing over the last yr:

Tyrnos 30 2 speed on a 7ft 15-24kg live fibre rod - 50lb fins braid with 80-120lb mono leader of 4m

Calcutta 400 on a egrell bait caster heavy plus 8-10kg - 30lb fins braid with 50lb mono leader of atleast 3m

Calcutta 700TE on a Loomis Pro Blue 12-25lb - 50lb fins braid with 80lb mono leader of 3-4m.

6500 Baitrunner on 8-15kg and 15-24kg live fibre - 30lb fins braid with 50lb mono leader.

Stella 6000 on Loomis Pro Blue 12-25lb 7ft spin - 50lb fins with mono leader

Out of these combos i can't go past the calcutta on the loomis, altho it only just tops the calcutta on the egrell as it has a bit more grunt. If i start loosing to many big fish on the calcutta then i bring out the tyrnos but that doesn't happen to often. I have landed blackall to 10kg in 20m of water of the baitcaster outfit and reds, snapper and scarlets to 5kg, the egrell is a great rod and would recommend it to anyone.

But the loomis pro blue's are in a class of their own. Light in the tip to absorb the head shakes and small runs and plenty of power in the butt to get stuck into the bigger fish once you have them coming. Pic attached of a GT i landed in 5mins in 60m of water while bottom bashing off the top of fraser island, the guys who i went with me were amazed at how much power my "whiting rod" had. As well as this i have had sharks to the boat up to 9ft long on this outfit, only last trip i had a fish pulling the 625 cruisecraft againt the drift on this outfit befre it spat the hooks :( most likely a big cobia. Can put some serious hurt on a fish when required.

As others have said you don't need a big outfit anymore to land good fish, after using the loomis and egrell i would much rather spend the extra money on the more expensive gear as long as you buy what is right for your type of fishing, mof my outfits i use for all sorts of fishing and find them very versatile and if looked after than i am sure they will last for many years.

I always use black magic leader and black magic KL circle hooks, in the last yr i have not straightened one hook, altho a shark broke one in half :o

[Maccas]

Dean,

I used to use a Sabre 55H 30-50lb rod with Shimano Beastmaster TBM30 graphite overhead reel as well as a Sabre 55XH rod. Both Sabre rods have tips that are sensitive so that you feel the bites but have heaps of power in the butt. They are great rods which will last a long time and were expensive when I bought them nearly 20 years ago but if you factor in the reliability and enjoyment they have given me they were cheap.

Now I use a Saltiga 55B rod with a Saltiga 40 overhead reel which is even better than the Sabre but more importantly, lots lighter to fish with all daybut plenty strong enough for big fish.

At the end of the day buy what you think will do the job but having a really good outfit that is comfortable to fish with is not something you should skimp on after having spent 50K on a boat and electronics etc .

After all there would be no point having a Maserati if you put el cheapo tyres on it.


Cheers,

Maccas

[Dean1]

Thanks for the input its much appreciated! Spot82 nice job landing that GT in that time, goes to show how awsome that loomis rod combo is.Some very useful info there. I'll get myself into some quality tackle stores and have a look at all the mentioned rods here. Think ill leave the tyrnos in the corner till its really needed. No wonder a man ends up with a room full of rods ;D Thanks again everybody, nothing quite like buying a new combo 8-)

[supa29]

Thanks for the input its much appreciated! Spot82 nice job landing that GT in that time, goes to show how awsome that loomis rod combo is.Some very useful info there. I'll get myself into some quality tackle stores and have a look at all the mentioned rods here. Think ill leave the tyrnos in the corner till its really needed. No wonder a man ends up with a room full of rods ;D Thanks again everybody, nothing quite like buying a new combo 8-)

when you go to get your new outfit try and see if you can buy some fishing abaility cause mate you need it leting bretto beat you all the time and i told you my mate fishes with a $900 outfit and catches no more fish than me on my $3.40 rod. my personal opinion is get a rod that has a whippy tip and some ba..s and just because it is cheap doesnt matter they just need a little more tlc when you get home. i told you i pulled a 9 foot shovelo nose shark up from 90m on cal wide and i give him curry all the way and my $1.40 rod handled it so price doesnt mean you are getting any betterrod my opinion anyway.:P :P ;D ;D

[GPB]

I have been using the T-C 200 jig stick / Tekota 800 for my 50lb outfit and a Accurate 665 / T-C 400 for 70 lb bottom donging for the last 3-4 years, and a T-C Bluewater 7'6"10-15kg on a Baitrunner LC for my 15kg floaters. All my 7ft bottom fishing rods have been shelved in favour of the T-C jig sticks.