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NAGG
26-06-2008, 10:28 AM
OK ...... I've noticed recently that there are fish lengths quoted ..... that make you go WOW & GAH GAH ........ However when you look at the brag mat shots , you clearly see that the measurements are taken from tip of the nose to tip of the tail!


So as a bit of curiosity , I thought this might be a interesting post & I've included a poll to see how we all measure fish

Cheers

Nagg

Outsider1
26-06-2008, 10:34 AM
OK ...... I've noticed recently that there are fish lengths quoted ..... that make you go WOW & GAH GAH ........ However when you look at the brag mat shots , you clearly see that the measurements are taken from tip of the nose to tip of the tail!
Now while it is no big deal ....... It could be if you are pulled over by a fishing inspector ........ In NSW it could equate to a hefty fine because measurement are taken to the fork ....... On a typical bream , you could be out by 2-3cm

So as a bit of awareness , I thought this might be a worthy post & I've included a poll to see how we all measure fish

Cheers

Nagg

Hi Chris,

not according to the NSW DPI website?;

http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/fisheries/recreational/regulations/sw/sw-bag-and-size/measure

"The overall measurement of a fish, whether it is fork-tailed or round tailed, is taken from the snout on the upper jaw to the end of the tail."

Cheers

Dave

kevvie
26-06-2008, 10:37 AM
Mate you better check that... for bream its nose to tip of the tail...not fork.

Measurements to the fork are purely a tournament phenomenon so there's less room for error. You can pull a tail a surprising distance to make the grade. Mesurments to the fork are more accurate. NSW fisheries regs are tip of the tail....

NAGG
26-06-2008, 10:46 AM
Kevie & Outsider ....... Thanks for the clarification ( & I'm surprised:o as you've mentioned - less margin for error)
I've altered the thread ....... & poll as more of a curiosity

Hell I've thrown back a lot of fish that I've thought was undersize;)

Cheers

Nagg

aussiebasser
26-06-2008, 11:44 AM
The reason for using a "Fork Length" measurement in ABT comps is to remove even the remotest possibility that an angler in a tournament could be apprehended with an undersize fish. Queenslands size limits are the overall length to the tip of the tail. I don't see a problem with it, and don't see a need to go to "Fork Length". I measure my height to the top of my head, not to the shoulder.

Keechie
26-06-2008, 04:22 PM
hi, i measure to the fork on most of my fish but i also take the measure to the tip aswell so that way i can clarify that my bream was 27cm(25 to the fork).

regards,
keechie

BrandonH
26-06-2008, 04:43 PM
No fork on a Cod to measure to so why do it for Bream and other species with a concave tail;)

I have nothing against people measuring to the fork though, its just the way I do it If the fish is right on or within millimeters of legal it gets to swim anyways:)

cheers
Brandon...

tunaticer
26-06-2008, 05:06 PM
I measure to the fork because i detest seeing people pushing fins around trying to make the length. You cant stretch a fork length.

For cod its to the end of the tail along the centreline.

Jack.

Jungle Jim
26-06-2008, 05:09 PM
I'd always done tip to tip so am glad to see all's above board,

however on recent trip we must have caught 15-20 snapper (definitely squire in the old terms) all around high 20's and low thirties (i think 33 was the biggest that day)......
and i remember thinking this fish is so small even if it was another 2 centremeters bigger would you honestly bother keeping one... (assuming of course that's the plan.)


im waiting for the day i catch a snapper big enough to feed the whole tribe...on recent form they might be hungry a while yet

Jim

NAGG
26-06-2008, 05:44 PM
I measure to the fork because i detest seeing people pushing fins around trying to make the length. You cant stretch a fork length.

For cod its to the end of the tail along the centreline.

Jack.


Thats what surprised me ...... Its easy to manipulate a fish with a concave tail to make it longer to the tip of the fin ........... Then if you get inspected & the cop lays everything level to measure it ....... what happens ???
Convex tails ...... no possible issues.
Then if you have slot limits ...... more manipulation to make it fall within :-/

Anyhow ..... Thems is the rules

Nagg

nuggstar
26-06-2008, 06:20 PM
iv allways done fork length and i got no idear y but at least i no my fish are legal

sparkyice
26-06-2008, 07:12 PM
interesting thread.
where i'm from, n.y. usa, the definition is maximum length, to the tip of the tail, squished togrther, if you will. i didn't write the law, thats just what they decided to do long before i was around.
i would tend to agree that the fork of the tail would leave less room for error. the fishes we have with a convex tail typically don't have a size restriction on them.

JT
26-06-2008, 07:37 PM
If the option to do both was there I would chose that, but as I generally target bream I chose to the fork.

When I fish socially for bream I measure to the fork of the tail, but that's only because I fish comps and that is generally the rule (not always though). In those comps that are to the tip, we obviously measure to the tip.

The only other species I tend to target are Jacks & flathead, these and any other by-catch we measure to the tip.

Cheers

John

Luc
26-06-2008, 07:44 PM
From the Qld DPI&F,

Luc

http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/cps/rde/dpi/hs.xsl/28_3011_ENA_HTML.htm

http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/images/Fisheries_RecreationalFishing/FishMeasuringBoard-lindr-500.gif Measuring device. DPI&F recommends using a sturdy ruler or coil tape measure to determine the length of catch. Adhesive or stick-on devices can shrink when exposed to weather and be unreliable.

fivefishes
26-06-2008, 07:45 PM
Evening all,

This is a subject i've had a lot to do with while working in the seafood industry. QBFP officers state fish must be at rest, not held or manipulated while laying on a measuring device, the tips of the tail lobes may be bought together to effectively measure total length, but must not be held in position, oh by the way mouth closed is the officail line in QLD. I've seen guys poke prod and otherwise stretch a fish and achieve nearly 2 cm length from a fish, hence the not being held or manipulated rule.

Tip for people who measure fish to keep, try making a measuring device out of a piece of downpipe or pvc pipe cut in half lengthwise, pop rivet an end cap on the half pipe and mark your common sizes along the inside of the pipe. fish can rest mouth closed up against the end cap and lay along the pipe, then check the tail overhangs the respective size marked on the pipe and bingo. Fisheries officers have already approved this type of measure for us in the industry.

Matt

Scott nthQld
26-06-2008, 09:18 PM
I measure to the tip because I usually fish fro a feed, unlike some people, who do manipulate the tail, I let the fish 'relax', making sure their mouth is properly closed and hard up againt the stop on the brag mat. I know brag mats can stretch/shrink and give false readings, so I make sure that the fish is a couple cm's over to negate this, otherwise, i do keep a coil tape on board to verify if need be.

Cammy
26-06-2008, 09:34 PM
I measure to the tip of the fins, and have also recently been taking a coil tape along so i get the right measurments.

Cammy

aussiefool
27-06-2008, 12:52 AM
I for one do not measure fish. I feel that if it is small enough to measure then it has to be undersized,so it goes swimming to the day it grows a bit bigger
I was told once that fish can shrink after death so why take a chance

Aussiefool

sparkyice
27-06-2008, 01:23 AM
From the Qld DPI&F,

Luc

http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/cps/rde/dpi/hs.xsl/28_3011_ENA_HTML.htm

http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/images/Fisheries_RecreationalFishing/FishMeasuringBoard-lindr-500.gif Measuring device. DPI&F recommends using a sturdy ruler or coil tape measure to determine the length of catch. Adhesive or stick-on devices can shrink when exposed to weather and be unreliable.

this is exactly how the state does it here in n.y., they allow you to pinch the tail together (middle pic.)

sparkyice
27-06-2008, 01:26 AM
if you have one a little short and the fish cops comming up on you, just stomp 'em in the middle to stretch 'em a bit!
if we catch a fish thats under sized, we have to return it even if it will certainly die.
seems a shame but i guess it has to be that way.

Luc
27-06-2008, 07:23 PM
Sorry Sparkyice, but the middle pic does not show the tail lobes pinched together.

For forked tailed fish, you measure to an imaginary line drawn from tip to tip.

You are not allowed to 'manipulate' the tail. The fish must lie naturally.

Luc

Tangles
27-06-2008, 08:13 PM
Wasnt this the subject of a recent thread?

mike

Nico.d.R
30-06-2008, 08:40 PM
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D thats funny as , stomp on it 8-) . im just picturing what happens to a toad fish when you stomp on it . how does a stipped bass handle a stomp in the guts ? (does its guts shoot out its arse)

cheers nico

shorty 01
05-07-2008, 11:45 AM
tip to tip

Angla
05-07-2008, 04:06 PM
There are only three sizes of fish.......
Too Small, Too ugly and Keeper.....

Chris

hookinin
05-07-2008, 05:39 PM
I agree here in QLD the key is the mouth closed and this can make a big differance and i asked the DPI boys when i ran into them at the boat ramp about shrinkage and they said yes they can shrink but they have to be of legal size when they measure them so if they are that close you should be throwing them back that way you could avoid any problems.
Gaven

trymyluck
07-07-2008, 08:11 PM
Caught a lot of bream years ago, never really measured them, we use to weigh them, just the old mans way. Biggest i've personally caught was 5.25 pound cleaned. Any of you bream nuts have any idea what sort of length it would have been? I know it took up most of the bottom of the fish box.;D ;D
Mark

breamnut
09-07-2008, 07:08 PM
Caught a lot of bream years ago, never really measured them, we use to weigh them, just the old mans way. Biggest i've personally caught was 5.25 pound cleaned. Any of you bream nuts have any idea what sort of length it would have been? I know it took up most of the bottom of the fish box.;D ;D
Mark
sorry mate not havin a go but a 5.25kg bream cleaned or about 3kg! i have never seen a 3kg bream in the first place but do you have a pic. were full it woulda gone an easy 3.5kg.
if it was the correct wieght id say about 55cm for a 3kg bream.
as i said not havin a go but if you did get a bream that big its a bloody ripper

dreemon
09-07-2008, 07:28 PM
Just curious.... what is the dif with a fishes mouth open or shut, I'm just trying to picture it cause I dont have a fish here :computer: on my desk ATM

NAGG
10-07-2008, 08:36 AM
Just curious.... what is the dif with a fishes mouth open or shut, I'm just trying to picture it cause I dont have a fish here :computer: on my desk ATM

Take a look at a fish like a barramundi ...... the lower jaw projects forward ( when open) & thus makes it a little longer -
also I guess its just a way of standardising

Nagg

trymyluck
10-07-2008, 09:33 PM
sorry mate not havin a go but a 5.25kg bream cleaned or about 3kg! i have never seen a 3kg bream in the first place but do you have a pic. were full it woulda gone an easy 3.5kg.
if it was the correct wieght id say about 55cm for a 3kg bream.
as i said not havin a go but if you did get a bream that big its a bloody ripper

Don't know if we took a pic of that one, we quite often got bream around the 4 to 4.5 lb but you had to work hard for them, only ever got them around 3 to 5.30 am and if i remember correctly caught the 2 biggest bream i've ever caught that night on whiting of all things, (got to Foster about 7.30 at night, nothing open, no bait, just happened to have some square hooks with us and the only thing we had in it after a couple of hours were a couple of whiting) one went 4.75 and the other was 5.25lb.I was only about 16 or 17 and back then catch and release wasn't in vogue i guess. These days would probably let em go.
Next time i'm back home i'll see if i can find some photos.
Mark

leelee
11-07-2008, 01:34 PM
Nagg personally it depends on the species for me.

All comp fish get measured to the fork and so do most social fish.

I hear what you are saying and its funny to see people say they got a 40cm bream. Most people assume its the fork length of the fish but its not, in reality its nothing more than 35-36cms, which is still a good fish but not a 40cm fork length fish.

Sometimes people do it to make their fish cross the magic length mark for that species so they can hear alot of oooooo's and ahhhhhhh's

Cheers

Lee

Scott nthQld
11-07-2008, 01:54 PM
trymyluck, I agree, I have fished Wallis Lake millions of times before, and have caught some stonker bream back in the day, that largest I ever caught was around the 2.5-3kg (5-6lb for those stuck in the imperial system) mark and measured 55cm (tip to tip) and very fat. I kept the fish (was about 10 yr ago now) and cleaned, ready for a pic back at the caravan park. When I set the bream down to continue cleaning the others, there was this great big commotion at the tables by the pelicans, I looked up and the bream was gone, straight down and stuck in the stupid bird throat, but I guess you get that when everyone feeds the pelicans. It was the only time I ever felt heartbroken. Very dissapointed.

trymyluck
11-07-2008, 05:22 PM
Scott i'm laughing so bloody hard its hurting, those bloody pelicans havn't gotten any better, we were down there in march for a few days, didn't catch a lot but on the last day we were there we caught a feed of flathead and the missus was cleaning them while i gave the boat a clean out(after 4 days of prawning and fishing it starting to get on the nose a bit:P )and i handed the missus some rubbish to put in the bin and you guessed it, the 3 biggest flathead were gone.>:( >:( >:(
Mark

2manylures
11-07-2008, 09:21 PM
A jumping trout 20ft from a swimming feeding pelican is also a brilliant sight.

They seem to be able to find some speed for a big clumsy looking critter.

2manylures
04-08-2008, 11:16 AM
Hi Chris,

not according to the NSW DPI website?;

http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/fisheries/recreational/regulations/sw/sw-bag-and-size/measure

"The overall measurement of a fish, whether it is fork-tailed or round tailed, is taken from the snout on the upper jaw to the end of the tail."

Cheers

Dave

I fished some invitational catch & release {predominantly cod} competitions in the early 90ís.
NSW fisheries were surveying all fish caught & supplied measuring instruments to ensure all anglers were on an even playing field. They even killed a small handful of fish {cod} to determine the age using the lines on the cheek bone in the same manner as trees are aged. Very interesting.
The details & diagrams shown on the devices tend to make me feel that NSW fisheries have changed measuring standards since.
Fork tailed species are shown to be measured to FORK unlike Tip - Tip of today.
Perhaps this may be where some confusion has come from as not all who fish read the updated rule books once released.
Fish do shrink, and if my memory serves me correctly itís 5% of total length, may be wrong yet pretty certain.

rob tranter
12-08-2008, 01:07 AM
Kevie & Outsider ....... Thanks for the clarification ( & I'm surprised:o as you've mentioned - less margin for error)
I've altered the thread ....... & poll as more of a curiosity

Hell I've thrown back a lot of fish that I've thought was undersize;)

Cheers

Nagg

Don't you fish in Sydney?

If so you should be up on NSW DPI Rules and Reg's

Aren't you the same NAGGS that has argued the point with certain Tasmanian Members on How They fish to their States Fishing Rules and Regulations, yet you don't know your own States Rules and Reg's

If I am wrong then I do appologise, if I am correct then?

Rob T8-)

NAGG
12-08-2008, 07:37 AM
Don't you fish in Sydney?

If so you should be up on NSW DPI Rules and Reg's

Aren't you the same NAGGS that has argued the point with certain Tasmanian Members on How They fish to their States Fishing Rules and Regulations, yet you don't know your own States Rules and Reg's

If I am wrong then I do appologise, if I am correct then?

Rob T8-)

Touche! ...... Rob , Give your self a pat on the back ........ & thank you for pointing out my fallibility to all hereabouts

Do you now feel better :-/ or perhaps you would like to look for spelling mistakes & incorrect use of grammar

Now ...... since you raise the point , My practice of measuring to the fork actually guarantees that any fish that I may choose to keep will fall within NSW regulations ............ Which is better than spine & tail manipulation that some practice!
By the way ...... A NSW Fisheries officer at South West Rocks (1996) was measuring our catch ........ & he told us about measuring to the fork ( & I've stuck with that ...... & still do & will continue to do so)

Finally my issues were nothing to do with measuring fish ..... it was about the fishing practices! ( Which by the way is done & dusted) ...... Get over it! I have!

Nagg