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troy
23-06-2008, 07:30 PM
Let me stress that i do not want to start a war on Etec Outboards or any other brand of Outboards and this topic has most likely run over and over.
I do not own any Outboard at present so i am not biased towards any of the brands on the market today.
What i have seen in most threads that there is very negative opinons on the Etec's.
My question is why .
Have owners had problems with them and at the end of the day are they not comparible to other brands.
If Etec is a problem Outboard could anyone back this up with honest facts.
I am really intrigued by this as i have not seen a Outboard as bagged as bad as the E tec.
Troy

wiz
23-06-2008, 07:36 PM
Firstly I don't own a ETEC but from what I have read most of the owners of these motors are more than happy with them. I think most of the negativity thing is an ego problem with owners of other brands.

troy
23-06-2008, 07:56 PM
I do not want people to indulge in popcorn just pure facts nothing else.
Troy

Outsider1
23-06-2008, 08:01 PM
I think the E-Tec DVD has a fair bit to do with it Troy. Got the hackles up so to speak. Sort of grew from there.

Cheers

Dave

stevea
23-06-2008, 08:05 PM
I would agree with Dave, the DVD is Marketing Hype to the max

wiz
23-06-2008, 08:06 PM
Quote
What i have seen in most threads that there is very negative opinons on the Etec's.

I don't understand where you are going with this as I stated The only negative things I have read are from non E-tec owners.

You base this thread on what you have read then show us Quotes from Etec owners that bag them.

devendiva
23-06-2008, 09:07 PM
I have a 175 Etec bought new in February this year. Before I bought it I wanted a Honda right or wrong but the dealer of the particular boat I bought only sold Etecs and I couldn't be bothered splitting the deal up.

I have had a few small teething problems, mainly with the setup of the engine, not the engine itself. It goes well and is pretty quiet etc. Having to put oil in does annoy me though and the oil smell, even as slight as it is annoys me.

I have second thought my purchase on many occasions, mainly when at the boat ramp when I here 4 strokes ticking over very smoothly and quietly. I actually thought of repowering with a Suzuki - the Etec only has 20 hours on it.

I got to go on a ride in a Power Cat 2600 at the Airlie Beach boat show a couple of weeks ago. It had twin 140 Suzuki's on it. I have to say that while they were awesomely quiet at idle, in the midrange and up top, they were not much different to my Etec. Through the midrange, they actually caused some sort of harmonic vibration though the Cat for a bit until they passed that RPM range. I don't get that with the Etec. It could have been a cat thing too I guess.

So I really so think they are all very similar, it just comes down to personal preference. I think I would be second guessing no matter what I bought - the grass is always greener...

BTW, speaking of cats, I have read much of how well they ride and it was fairly flat up at Airlie - maybe a 1 m chop. It did ride well but certainly not that much better than my 6m mono. I wouldn't pay more than double what my boat cost me. I don't know how anyone could justify $150K odd for a 26' fishing boat.

HH565L
23-06-2008, 09:20 PM
I would have to agree that most of the negativity towards Etecs has been by those who own other brands. And to this point I have stayed out of the discussions becuase I have had no first hand experience of my own. But to imply, all Etec owners have been happy with their investment is a non-sense.

I know of one very prominant PPB & WP charter operator who blew 2 large Etecs before moving back to Yamaha. His previous Yamaha had given him ove 500hrs of service as did the one before that I believe.

I also know of another large Etec that developed a crack in the gearbox housing and it needed to be replaced. Why these people have not come forward and gone public with their issues is something I cannot answer, only they can explain that.

Now I don't know if the above meets your criteria of 'facts' but let me assure you, it's all true.

Having said all of that, I would still consider an Etec if I was in the market for a new outboard. The sales guy would however have his work cut out for him!

Regards,
Spiro

BrenMac
23-06-2008, 09:31 PM
Nice honest post Devendiva, good onya.

Yeah, I think the DVD and the hype it spun has something to do with it, which is a pity, because from what I have seen, they are a very good motor (and this is coming from a Verado owner!:P )

I have also owned an Opti and loved that so I guess the Etec would be just as good (maybe better?).

A bit of banter is good fun, but sick and tired hearing people slam every outboard other than the one they own and always trying to justify their decision for buying that make and model- might as well just go straight to the old fella measuring comp!:o

Cheers
Brendan

Xahn1960
23-06-2008, 10:43 PM
Have a mate with an E Tec, he loves it... I love my old Merc.... Diferent strokes for diferent folks...... The E Tec propaganda machine however is classic :) whoever dreamed that up is one smart cookie.... Love em or hate em, everyone knows about them.....

Bill.

notsa
23-06-2008, 10:44 PM
I think BrenMac is spot on.

Lancair
23-06-2008, 11:29 PM
I typed a heap of popcorn.

Sorry

ozscott
24-06-2008, 09:30 AM
I dont think etec is alone with problems - all modern high pressure 2 strokes are prone to problems that the older ones were not. I will quote from a Yammy thread relating to their HDPI (same as etec in technology) - its from a Yammy master tech in the US - very reliable and smart fella I have found him to be over the years. This gives people some idea of some of the problems that modern outboard CAN face...and then there are the electrical problems that can arise when your talking fractions of a volt being earthed in a salt air environment :)

" gasoline can boil at about 60*F at 5"Hg of vacum.
that means its changed from a liquid state to a vapor.
fuel pumps are not desined to move vapors.
if you have 50 PSI on the medium pressure pump at the failure RPM and the High pressure pump shows low pressure you either have a restricted filter or the screens in the HP pump are clogged.
could also be a defective pressure regulator in the HP pump.
I dont mean to be brutal, however if you wish to maintain or repair this rig yourself there are simply certain tools, test equipments and terminologly you must master or you will post about blown pistons.
you simply cannot splatter gun trouble shooting this engine.
its a very precise rig that MUST be maintained or it pops.
the HPDI is very similar in engineering to the Optimax, TLDI and E-TEC.
the fuel used for combustion is placed in the cylinder after the piston has moved up and closed of both the intake air port and the exhaust port.
means we dont have much time to place the proper amount of fuel for the air allowed in by the throttle plates, burn it,ehaust the gasses and do it again.
its all fairly simple, but it does require a bit of study and a lot of skepticism.
trust no one.
2"Hg is acceptable in the suction side of the lift pumps.
all the VST is is a mini gas tank that allows the medium pressure pump a solid liquid tank to pass fuel bubble and vapor free to the High Pressure pump.
from there the rail is pressurized to about 750 PSI and fed to the injectors.
each injector also has a screen that can clog. http://forums.iboats.com/images/buttons/quote.gif (http://forums.iboats.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1728590)
"

Cheers

ps. This was in respect of a surging problem on a 2001 150 HPDI Yamaha - I dont think anyone who knows yammies are going to argue that they are inferior reliability wise to an OMC product (Or Merc or Suzzi etc)...when these engines get a little older and out of warranty is when problems are likely to develop with the raft of sensors and computers, and high pressure fuel delivery systems. I reckon if you paid big dollars for one and only went out like most rec fisherman do, you would want to hold onto it for some years. At say 300 hours and a year or several out of warranty you would be hoping for many more years of trouble free outings once every couple of weeks or monthly...but sitting is the enemy of even the humble carbed outboard (but with a very quick and easy clean up of float bowls and carb idle jets)....but with injection you might find that even with no problems as such, fuel sitting in the injector rails evaporates when its not used all the time and then the varnishes clog the injectors/screens and its a full strip off of the rails and injectors and off to the sonic tank for some good vibrations...talking lots of labour.

Chimo
24-06-2008, 09:43 AM
I think I'll stick with the old carby units a while longer after reading that!!:-/

Cheers
Chimo GOM

disorderly
24-06-2008, 10:44 AM
the HPDI is very similar in engineering to the Optimax, TLDI and E-TEC.





Scott...there a couple of significant differences with the E-Tec technology.
ie the opti uses a compressor to deliver the fuel to the injectors....edit...should have also added that the compressor is driven by a belt off the flywheel which only adds to potential problems - wonder if she will still run with a pair of old pantyhose if the belt snaps.http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/wink.gif
Check the link below for the patented Etec fuel injection driver system....less potential major components to fail.
E-tec also needs no battery power to operate...whereas your opti aint goin' nowhere if your battery is flat or collapses.

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/6398511.pdf

Lots of other good stuff on continuous wave about the new technologies for those who care to know.

BTW, I do agree ,though,that your old yammy 2 banger is far more easier and cheaper to service and repair and you have far more options available to you when deciding on a mechanic as it is far less complex.

Scott

FNQCairns
24-06-2008, 10:45 AM
Keep in mind also that the E-tec is a grade above the purely orbital technology that is HDPI, OPTI, TLDI... are there others I forget?

The E-tec has a truly whiz bang injector design that does away with many of the ancillary wearable and maintainable bit's and pieces needed in the orbital designs.

All end up at the same end point it's just the e-tec gets there with a minimum of fuss in comparison - read over time a true cost benefit, not to mention down time and tow backs/trouble on the water with age.

On paper it is the DI 2st of choice without doubt.

The only outboards simpler in design 2 or 4 are the 2st traditional ones.

cheers fnq

ozscott
24-06-2008, 11:08 AM
thats interesting stuff fellas...I reckon that I might re-visit the re-power thing in say 2013 and see how the land is...etec will have been around then for a decade and any longer term problems will have come to the fore...and I might then pounce perhaps towards an etec.

Cheers

Outsider1
24-06-2008, 11:19 AM
Just a few interesting tidbits.

The technology used in the Opti and HPDI injectors is actually from Orbital Engine Corporation (OEC), you know; Ralph Sarich and his Wankel Rotary engine!

It is one of their technology patents that they actually got into production. OEC is actually still listed on the Australian Stock Exchange and surviving on the royalities.

By the way OEC has developed a 4stroke DI Orbital engine with Polaris that is going into production! And they are into alternative fuels and engine systems as well, including engines that will run on multiple fuels.

Cheers

Dave

FNQCairns
24-06-2008, 11:21 AM
Pretty much my consciousness on the issue also Ozscott, in the mean time the 5 year warranty on the Suzukis looks good:) although it is probably a declining one - dunno.

Think I will stick with what I know, effectively swapping out from a in good condition traditional 2st to a more modern technology is a mugs game for the majority of weekend warriors like myself, what price the emotional side of the purchase.... too costly for me.

cheers fnq

ozscott
24-06-2008, 12:10 PM
know what you mean FNQ...its interesting that you can still buy the same 2 strokes from Yammy that you could 10 years ago...almost no changes - up to the big V6s...but fuel will eventually cause problems with the costs of same compared to the costs of a new modern one, even with weekend running...at the moment though a new 140 V4 yammy 2 stroke oil injected traditional jobbie gives you a big wallop of change compared to say a 150 etec...but Im going to drag my old girl out as long as possible and then probably go modern.

Cheers

Outsider1
24-06-2008, 12:25 PM
I understand the caution but I am the opposite of you guys (FNQCairns and ozscott), I love new technology, Que sera sera, although I don't want to be a crash test dummy either!:-X;D

I would venture that modern Diesel technology has some similarities and yet to stand the test of time technology, as do the first DI car motors that are now appearing in the top end models (Audi, BMW, Merc etc).

It really is only the DI system that is new in the E-Tecs, the base motors etc have been around for yonks and are well proven.

I have just had an injector replaced on my E-Tec 150. Alarm warning went off (Injector Malfunction Warning) when I was running it at idle on the mooring. Dealer checked it out and replaced the injector.

So a negative would be yes they (injectors) sometimes fail it seems, but on the positive side their sensor and warning systems seem pretty good.

By the way the dealer said they had not seen or heard of an injector failing in the 150hp before, so it appears to be a rare occurrence at least.

Bring on the new tech I say, 4 stroke or 2 stroke it is all good for me!.

Cheers

Dave

ozscott
24-06-2008, 12:51 PM
thanks Dave - what is the 150 on...and how does it go, speed economy etc. Can you compare it to motors you have had in the past for noise, vibration, ease of starting etc?

Cheers mate

ozscott
24-06-2008, 01:00 PM
Dave - the new tech diesels might not be the best example. I have many mates with them and they all have problems from time to time, including problems that cannot be traced...in the end I dont know that the upsides for these new diesels is worth the downsides...but I get your point nonetheless.

Cheers

Outsider1
24-06-2008, 01:11 PM
Hi ozscott,

it is on a Cruise Craft Outsider 580. Here is the thread I ran when I went through the repower selection process;

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=121263

It previously had a 150hp Johnson v6 carby 2 stroke on it.

Comparable 4 strokes were too heavy, so went the E-tec. It only has 10 hours on it so a bit early to give accurate numbers, but I have had it set up with the fuel management module and gauges so hope to post some figures in due course. It uses low 20s (lphr) at cruise of 25 knots/4,000rpms.

Compared to the Johnson it is very quiet, similar to a 4 stroke, just a different sound (tone?). Very smooth and gets out of the hole very well. Performs a lot better overall than the old Johnson, planes quicker and easier, cruises at lower revs and higher speed. Seems less reliant on trimming the running angle.

I can't really compare it to a 4 stroke as I have not run in a similar boat in one, but very happy so far.

I should add that I suspect that the faulty injector I mentioned was caused by an electrical problem. When the dealer came out to check the motor it had lost all electrical power. He discovered that the Earth Strap was loose (a fit up problem). I suspect the low voltage or a spike took out the injector, but I am yet to verify this as a likely cause with the dealer.

Cheers

Dave

ozscott
24-06-2008, 01:35 PM
thanks Dave - much appreciated mate. Good clean feedback about the new tech stuff is valuable.

Cheers again

troy
24-06-2008, 01:55 PM
Thanks for the replys.
The reason i started this thread was the amount of bad publicity E Teck's have received on here is that i would be really hesistent about buying one because of it.
But as a lot have said including my local E Teck Dealer was the Dvd they put out put a lot of peoples back up.
Thanks
Troy

notsa
24-06-2008, 02:14 PM
I think most of the bad publicity about E-tec is from non E_TEC owners.

disorderly
24-06-2008, 02:23 PM
I should add that I suspect that the faulty injector I mentioned was caused by an electrical problem. When the dealer came out to check the motor it had lost all electrical power. He discovered that the Earth Strap was loose (a fit up problem). I suspect the low voltage or a spike took out the injector, but I am yet to verify this as a likely cause with the dealer.

Cheers

Dave

This seems to happen far too often...set-up problems....
other than your's,Dave,I have recently heard of other setup drama's including one where the mapping was set up for the wrong oil..also heard of dealers not programming with the updates....as well as the usual bad prop selection issues...it's no wonder the new engines get a bad rep when the dealer cant even get it right at the start.

Scott

STUIE63
24-06-2008, 02:28 PM
Troy I too was hesitant about buying an etec but talking to people that had them on their boats and all were happy with them I ended up buying one and couldn't be happier the equivalent fourstroke would have been alot heavier . go for a ride in one there are plenty in the burdekin and talk to the owners .
Stuie
PS as an etec owner I hate the DVD

Outsider1
24-06-2008, 02:41 PM
Yes I found the E-Tec DVD bemusing as well, but you can understand why BRP did it.! Having taken over a bankrupt OMC and trying to relaunch the Evinrude and Johnson brands they had to kick a few goals and a few goolies early. In retrospect worked a treat for them. A bit like the Virgin Brand advertising really.

Speaking of kicks to the goolies, there is one Evinrude commercial that I do like though, just my sick sense of humour;D;

nrnU2nDj_Yk

Cheers

Dave

Spaniard_King
24-06-2008, 03:22 PM
Dave.. the funniest thing about that comercial is all the 2 strokes in the back ground and not one mention about a 4 stroke by any of the actors including the guy getting the bill.. he could be getting the bill for any type/brand of outboard. Theres also a big "white" one in the back ground :)

marco
24-06-2008, 03:57 PM
i started out with a 200 3.3 ltr etec , bloody thirsty on fuel and a fuel transducer failed within 10 hrs . i then went to a 175 2.6 ltr and getting great fuel economy and haven't had a probelm in the first 50 hrs . a good engine and brp support there product very well . i do wish i went suzuki though from hearing about the fuel ecomony of the 200/225 models .

Greg P
24-06-2008, 05:54 PM
ETEC Ads ;D;D

Why ETEC owners end up fishing alone a lot :-[;D;D8-)

DwEE3LskULg

disorderly
24-06-2008, 06:44 PM
Greg surely you would have to admit that's pretty funny in a sick sort of way...
and I guess they have just received some free advertising by you putting that up....
Kinda turned my stomach a bit though.http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/rolleyes.gifhttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/grin.gif

Scott

Greg P
24-06-2008, 06:49 PM
Greg surely you would have to admit that's pretty funny in a sick sort of way...
and I guess they have just received some free advertising by you putting that up....
Kinda turned my stomach a bit though.http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/rolleyes.gif;D

Scott


Scott - I think the ads are great. Really well done. I dont have any probs with ETECs. I think they probably suffer a bit in reputation from the Ficht disaster through no fault of their own.

It all comes back to who puts it on and maintains it - regardless of brand. I have seen a 4TEC badge from BRP but :-X;D;D;D

ozscott
24-06-2008, 06:50 PM
yep the purple man string doesnt yank my chain too much...have a look at the redneck bass fishing one on the list at the bottom...it has an insane american on a twin merc bass boat taking the piss out of the other competitors and then winding up the most insane 'bass boat' ive ever seen...very funny

Outsider1
24-06-2008, 06:53 PM
yep the purple man string doesnt yank my chain too much...have a look at the redneck bass fishing one on the list at the bottom...it has an insane american on a twin merc bass boat taking the piss out of the other competitors and then winding up the most insane 'bass boat' ive ever seen...very funny

That redneck clip is a classic ozscoot, one of my favorites!

For those that have not seen it, it was posted on Ausfish in the video section a while ago.

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=130295

Cheers

Dave

Skusto
24-06-2008, 06:57 PM
haha i think the etec ads are quite funny good ads i thought can see why the 4stroke boys dont like the first add that was posted. quite clever tho i thought! ive neva owned an etec but have been out in one and was quite happy with its just the downside of having to put oil in it as well as finding an extra spot on the boat to hide the oil container..

Jabba_
24-06-2008, 07:11 PM
This seems to happen far too often...set-up problems....
other than your's,Dave,I have recently heard of other setup drama's including one where the mapping was set up for the wrong oil..also heard of dealers not programming with the updates....as well as the usual bad prop selection issues...it's no wonder the new engines get a bad rep when the dealer cant even get it right at the start.

Scott

That is so true, and because of there slackness, I recon I came an inch from an engine meltdown disaster.. I took my boat in to have a new bilge fitted, and to upgrade the firmware on my E-tec... At the time I was using the remainder off my XD50. During the update the technician changed my oil ratio setting from XD50 to XD100 and did not notify me of the change.....

3 weeks later and an extra 7hrs on the clock I was down to my last drop off XD50, so I emptyed it out and replaced it with XD100. Took it to my favorite mechanic (Ian Purdon) do have the ratio changed to XD100, only to find out it was already on XD100...

I am lucky I was not flogging the pants off my boat because I would off melted a piston for sure.....

troy
24-06-2008, 07:28 PM
I think i am getting the results i am after.
It sounds like to me it is not the brand of motor that has caused the E Tec bashing but the advertising that has got members not happy.
Up to this stage no one has really bagged the E.Tec.
Troy

Ratman
24-06-2008, 07:37 PM
With the software and laptop connected is it possible to check the history/problems of each motor for prospective second hand buyers?

Thinking of a couple of 90's for my 18' cat as my 115 2 stokes like a drink. ;D

Mick

disorderly
24-06-2008, 07:58 PM
With the software and laptop connected is it possible to check the history/problems of each motor for prospective second hand buyers?

Thinking of a couple of 90's for my 18' cat as my 115 2 stokes like a drink. ;D

Mick

Yes Mick, that is certainly one of the advantages of these motors...much of the history can be determined by simply hooking up the laptop...it will give a readout of any alarms that have went off as well as a graph showing the percentage of time spent at different RPM and any updates that become available to refine the motor can simply be uploaded...
There is bound to be other tricks but that is all the technician could show me as he was only learning the software .

Scott

disorderly
24-06-2008, 08:01 PM
But of course the downside is what happened to jabba...such a simple mistake by the technician could have catastrophic results...thankfully it didn't in his case but it easily could have...

Ratman
24-06-2008, 08:10 PM
Thanks Scott, all sounds interesting. I can't afford any extra weight down the back on this boat. cheers, Mick.

NAGG
24-06-2008, 09:02 PM
I think i am getting the results i am after.
It sounds like to me it is not the brand of motor that has caused the E Tec bashing but the advertising that has got members not happy.
Up to this stage no one has really bagged the E.Tec.
Troy

I think ( without stirring the pot) ..... That most new motors are pretty good these days! ........ If you get dud ..... it could come from any manufacturer!
I know I'm happy with a 4 stroke yammi on my hornet ...... but if I was buying a performance boat or one that is weight sensitive at the transom ....... it would probably be powered by a DI 2 stroke !

Nagg

TimiBoy
25-06-2008, 07:09 AM
All true. I hate their advertising, the FICHT was a nightmare, and a Dealer called me an idiot for wanting anything else. These were factors in my looking at others. I bought a Verado, but it's all horses for courses, and I'm sure the ETEC's fine.

I do love my V-Rod!

Cheers,

Tim