Chimo
23-06-2008, 11:57 AM
Hi All
If you've been reading the wise words of Blackjack and "Black" Jenny this thread was tossed in as a throw away comment but the more of their logic I read the less of a silly idea it seems so here goes.
i'm just going to drop some of the stuff in here (via edits) from another thread thats sort of not really relevant to this subject ..............::)
Cheers
Chimo
http://www.parasolemt.com.au/venum.asp
Why does a mixture of thirds metho, baby oil and detol with a few drops of tea tree oil work so well to prevent infections from fish hooks and fish barbs while boating and although not strictly your field why does the same mix work as a repellant for midges too?
Cheers
Chimo
8-)
Chimo
http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/misc/_postbitspacer.gif
hello Chimo
blackjenny here
i haven’t heard of that combination before, but this is my best educated guess
this link is a very extensive scientific analysis of the reasons tea tree oil (TTO) works, how it works etc.
http://cmr.asm.org/cgi/content/full/19/1/50 (http://cmr.asm.org/cgi/content/full/19/1/50)
just scroll thru it and read the bits that make sense
as you are no doubt aware, the medical world needs a helping hand with the nasty antibiotic resistant bugs we are growing these days.
seems the aboriginal population had the handle on this LONG ago. what’s old is new again???
chloroxylenol is the main active ingredient of Dettol, belongs to the phenol group of chemicals (old-fashioned hospital smell) and is mainly used in medicine as an antibacterial and anaesthetic which kills bacteria, reduces inflammation and relieves itching, redness or pain in skin infections and conditions. it has very good action against many Streptococci (like the golden staph you hear so much about these days). streps are everywhere around us and are quite resistant to salt water. they exist in huge numbers in our gut, the guts of animals, fish, prawns etc. yea and some are much more toxic than others.
mossies and other bugs hate the smell of dettol, so they tend to fly off before they bite you. I’m thinking the baby oil plays the part of making it smell nicer, (no smelly fishermen here – puts a whole new meaning into the word SNAG!!!) it makes the lotion easier to spread, and helps to keep the skin soft and moisturised, protection from wind and dehydration, skin cracks etc. the bite parts of the sandfly may not be able to penetrate thru’ the layer too. not sure. the oil also helps to dilute the concentration of dettol, which burns if it’s too concentrated and the metho which tends to dry the skin out too much
metho is better as an antibacterial agent when it is diluted, in fact much better than 100%. It is cheap and kills just about everything.
i’ll need to make some of this stuff up to put in our new boat because all up it seems to address the combo of bugs as microscopic and biting. is it in the recipe section of the forum? just a thought
cheers
thanks for the question. i learnt. jen http://www.ausfish.com.au/yabbfiles/Smilies/scholar.gif
http://www.ausfish.com.au/yabbfiles/Smilies/bandana.gif Blackjack 'n Jen
Jenny, thanks for posting that info.
Dettol kills Cane Toads very effectively too. Just spray it on them and they cactus in within a few minutes.
Cheer
Dave
Hi Jen
I knew the mix works in a range of situations even without the Tea tree oil and it good to have your input on it too.
Its a good brew to have around to cope with the insects as well as the hook scratches and pricks as well as the impact of fish spines.
I use Tea tree oil in the 100% conc. for any midge or mossie bite I get when I have failed to apply repellant.
Another question for you and Jack. (Maybe we need a Granny's Cures and how and why they work thread too).
Why when you are spiked by a flathead can you cure the pain by inserting the spiked finger into the stomach juices of the offendinge flathead or its cousin for that matter?
Cheers
Chimo
Originally Posted by Chimo http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?p=846653#post846653)
Hi Jen
Another question for you and Jack. (Maybe we need a Granny's Cures and how and why they work thread too).
Why when you are spiked by a flathead can you cure the pain by inserting the spiked finger into the stomach juices of the offendinge flathead or its cousin for that matter?
Cheers
Chimo
blackjenny reporting
no expert on this at all chimo, but my best answer is because of the alkaline nature of the stomach slime proteins (edited, had it round the wrong way before) 'denaturing' the acid components of the spike poison literally changing their nature and rendering them to a new makeup. an actual chemical reaction takes place between the protein and the acid. the basis of hot water treatment (treatment of choice) is similar. the heat denatures the acid protein of the poison, is heat labile. but you don't usually have hot water to hand. :'( (even fresh body temp urine may help if nothing else available - it's sterile too)
from what i have gathered since i first posted this answer:
the spike poison is acidic, maybe pH 4.0
the belly slime is more alkaline, maybe around pH 7.0-8.0
(saltwater also is pH around 8.0)
acid + alkali = neutral
interesting also slime contains enzymes and has antibacterial properties that help protect the skin of the fish
if the injury is penetrating in any real depth, you'd need to try and get the acids and the alkalis to contact each other too i'd imagine. maybe the salty slime water can penetrate. at least you've got the fish at hand, so to speak, so the first aid is there ready to try
http://www.nola.com/sports/t-p/index...260.xml&coll=1 (http://www.nola.com/sports/t-p/index.ssf?/base/sports-35/1202019674247260.xml&coll=1) - an interesting link about medical properties of fish slime
i can never forget being with my darling Daddy one day when i was about 7 years old. he was spiked by something when he was digging around in the contents of seaweed from a hand prawning net in Lake Macquarie, NSW
it was called a bull rout
anyway, my dad was a tough guy and to see the pain he suffered was just awful. he wanted mum to cut his arm off!
this is a really useful page of first aid for the outdoors, simple and practical advice
http://www.parasolemt.com.au/venum.asp (http://www.parasolemt.com.au/venum.asp)
maybe i'll print it off and laminate it for the boat? anyway guys, (and I mean gals too whenever I say that) i cannot stress enough just how CRITICAL it is to get some antiseptic cream, lotion or even basic soap and water wash on ANY cut big or small, that breaks through the integrity of your skin, especially if it draws blood. and i am as serious as death about what can happen if you don't. http://www.ausfish.com.au/yabbfiles/Smilies/bomb.gif (from secondary infection) make sure your tetanus cover is up-to-date too, c'mon guys MAN TF UP
also, there is a range of waterless handwashes available now in plastic pump packs, like Aquim, which you can put in your boat and have readily accessible. use it anytime you need to wash your hands.
off the track i know, but just thinking about my Dad...lost him 10 yrs ago, only 59
he always had boats, sailing and power and i have my love of the water and boating from him. i sailed too, sabots, vee jays and a northbridge senior. we skiied all over the lake, and he taught me how to catch fish, and crabs and prawns. he took me outside fishing too. so it's not just you guys who inherit things "blokey" from their old man. i've read plenty of things about men and their dads on here, men and their sons. (not saying you) so i'm just addressing a bit of the imbalance
so you can imagine, i am just about out of my skin with excitement about getting our first boat since marrying jack 25 yrs ago!!! (best anniversary present ever) this wednesday if the test run works out. i cannot wait!
thanks for the question. i learnt something new. jenny
p.s. i am often telling my daughters liz and cath, "if you don't learn something new, every day, you might as well give up!"
Blackjack 'n Jen
Hope they're bitin'.
If you've been reading the wise words of Blackjack and "Black" Jenny this thread was tossed in as a throw away comment but the more of their logic I read the less of a silly idea it seems so here goes.
i'm just going to drop some of the stuff in here (via edits) from another thread thats sort of not really relevant to this subject ..............::)
Cheers
Chimo
http://www.parasolemt.com.au/venum.asp
Why does a mixture of thirds metho, baby oil and detol with a few drops of tea tree oil work so well to prevent infections from fish hooks and fish barbs while boating and although not strictly your field why does the same mix work as a repellant for midges too?
Cheers
Chimo
8-)
Chimo
http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/misc/_postbitspacer.gif
hello Chimo
blackjenny here
i haven’t heard of that combination before, but this is my best educated guess
this link is a very extensive scientific analysis of the reasons tea tree oil (TTO) works, how it works etc.
http://cmr.asm.org/cgi/content/full/19/1/50 (http://cmr.asm.org/cgi/content/full/19/1/50)
just scroll thru it and read the bits that make sense
as you are no doubt aware, the medical world needs a helping hand with the nasty antibiotic resistant bugs we are growing these days.
seems the aboriginal population had the handle on this LONG ago. what’s old is new again???
chloroxylenol is the main active ingredient of Dettol, belongs to the phenol group of chemicals (old-fashioned hospital smell) and is mainly used in medicine as an antibacterial and anaesthetic which kills bacteria, reduces inflammation and relieves itching, redness or pain in skin infections and conditions. it has very good action against many Streptococci (like the golden staph you hear so much about these days). streps are everywhere around us and are quite resistant to salt water. they exist in huge numbers in our gut, the guts of animals, fish, prawns etc. yea and some are much more toxic than others.
mossies and other bugs hate the smell of dettol, so they tend to fly off before they bite you. I’m thinking the baby oil plays the part of making it smell nicer, (no smelly fishermen here – puts a whole new meaning into the word SNAG!!!) it makes the lotion easier to spread, and helps to keep the skin soft and moisturised, protection from wind and dehydration, skin cracks etc. the bite parts of the sandfly may not be able to penetrate thru’ the layer too. not sure. the oil also helps to dilute the concentration of dettol, which burns if it’s too concentrated and the metho which tends to dry the skin out too much
metho is better as an antibacterial agent when it is diluted, in fact much better than 100%. It is cheap and kills just about everything.
i’ll need to make some of this stuff up to put in our new boat because all up it seems to address the combo of bugs as microscopic and biting. is it in the recipe section of the forum? just a thought
cheers
thanks for the question. i learnt. jen http://www.ausfish.com.au/yabbfiles/Smilies/scholar.gif
http://www.ausfish.com.au/yabbfiles/Smilies/bandana.gif Blackjack 'n Jen
Jenny, thanks for posting that info.
Dettol kills Cane Toads very effectively too. Just spray it on them and they cactus in within a few minutes.
Cheer
Dave
Hi Jen
I knew the mix works in a range of situations even without the Tea tree oil and it good to have your input on it too.
Its a good brew to have around to cope with the insects as well as the hook scratches and pricks as well as the impact of fish spines.
I use Tea tree oil in the 100% conc. for any midge or mossie bite I get when I have failed to apply repellant.
Another question for you and Jack. (Maybe we need a Granny's Cures and how and why they work thread too).
Why when you are spiked by a flathead can you cure the pain by inserting the spiked finger into the stomach juices of the offendinge flathead or its cousin for that matter?
Cheers
Chimo
Originally Posted by Chimo http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?p=846653#post846653)
Hi Jen
Another question for you and Jack. (Maybe we need a Granny's Cures and how and why they work thread too).
Why when you are spiked by a flathead can you cure the pain by inserting the spiked finger into the stomach juices of the offendinge flathead or its cousin for that matter?
Cheers
Chimo
blackjenny reporting
no expert on this at all chimo, but my best answer is because of the alkaline nature of the stomach slime proteins (edited, had it round the wrong way before) 'denaturing' the acid components of the spike poison literally changing their nature and rendering them to a new makeup. an actual chemical reaction takes place between the protein and the acid. the basis of hot water treatment (treatment of choice) is similar. the heat denatures the acid protein of the poison, is heat labile. but you don't usually have hot water to hand. :'( (even fresh body temp urine may help if nothing else available - it's sterile too)
from what i have gathered since i first posted this answer:
the spike poison is acidic, maybe pH 4.0
the belly slime is more alkaline, maybe around pH 7.0-8.0
(saltwater also is pH around 8.0)
acid + alkali = neutral
interesting also slime contains enzymes and has antibacterial properties that help protect the skin of the fish
if the injury is penetrating in any real depth, you'd need to try and get the acids and the alkalis to contact each other too i'd imagine. maybe the salty slime water can penetrate. at least you've got the fish at hand, so to speak, so the first aid is there ready to try
http://www.nola.com/sports/t-p/index...260.xml&coll=1 (http://www.nola.com/sports/t-p/index.ssf?/base/sports-35/1202019674247260.xml&coll=1) - an interesting link about medical properties of fish slime
i can never forget being with my darling Daddy one day when i was about 7 years old. he was spiked by something when he was digging around in the contents of seaweed from a hand prawning net in Lake Macquarie, NSW
it was called a bull rout
anyway, my dad was a tough guy and to see the pain he suffered was just awful. he wanted mum to cut his arm off!
this is a really useful page of first aid for the outdoors, simple and practical advice
http://www.parasolemt.com.au/venum.asp (http://www.parasolemt.com.au/venum.asp)
maybe i'll print it off and laminate it for the boat? anyway guys, (and I mean gals too whenever I say that) i cannot stress enough just how CRITICAL it is to get some antiseptic cream, lotion or even basic soap and water wash on ANY cut big or small, that breaks through the integrity of your skin, especially if it draws blood. and i am as serious as death about what can happen if you don't. http://www.ausfish.com.au/yabbfiles/Smilies/bomb.gif (from secondary infection) make sure your tetanus cover is up-to-date too, c'mon guys MAN TF UP
also, there is a range of waterless handwashes available now in plastic pump packs, like Aquim, which you can put in your boat and have readily accessible. use it anytime you need to wash your hands.
off the track i know, but just thinking about my Dad...lost him 10 yrs ago, only 59
he always had boats, sailing and power and i have my love of the water and boating from him. i sailed too, sabots, vee jays and a northbridge senior. we skiied all over the lake, and he taught me how to catch fish, and crabs and prawns. he took me outside fishing too. so it's not just you guys who inherit things "blokey" from their old man. i've read plenty of things about men and their dads on here, men and their sons. (not saying you) so i'm just addressing a bit of the imbalance
so you can imagine, i am just about out of my skin with excitement about getting our first boat since marrying jack 25 yrs ago!!! (best anniversary present ever) this wednesday if the test run works out. i cannot wait!
thanks for the question. i learnt something new. jenny
p.s. i am often telling my daughters liz and cath, "if you don't learn something new, every day, you might as well give up!"
Blackjack 'n Jen
Hope they're bitin'.