Tony Rogers

[Tony Rogers]

Need some help. I have been advised by my accountant that i can buy a boat through my business. I am looking at a 6 metre boat and primary use would be outside fishing and family use (muck around shiing tubing ect.) It needs to have a few creature comforts like toilet and seats for the wife and two girls. I have set a budget between $60 and 80k and I need to make an order by the end of this month for tax purposes. I have sent emails all over the country to boatyards for prices and have had the following models suggested.
Caribbean reef runner6.30mt
Spirit Fisher 590
Edencradt offshore 6 mt.
Haines Hunter 650 horizon
Whittley 2200 sea legend
Cruisecraft 625 explorer
Tournament 2000
Haines Hunter 585
Quintrex offshore 630
Goldstar 6200 centre cab.

Any ideas, please remember I need to keep the wife and two daughters happy as well.

The other option is a Sailfisher Catamaram 6200

Cheers
tony

[Noelm]

almost any of those Boats would fit the bill, but be aware that a couple of them are pretty sparse in fitout, the Boat Show is on soon, why not bide your time and go along and see what you can find, it is pretty rare to see so many different models in one place (I reckon) just make a list of the "must haves" a list of the "maybes" and a list of the true "uses"and go and have a good look, you can almost forget anything the Salesman will tell you at the Show, as their Model/Brand will be the best in the World, but at least it will give ou a chance to hop in some and "tick the Boxes" as well as see them in the flesh as it were.

[Noelm]

wooops, I just read the "order this month" bit, that will leave the Boat show out, I might also add (much to my dismay) that if Tubing and Skiing is a priority, then most Cats are out of the question, they will do the job, but a high speed turn to give a skier a "whip" will be just as much fun for the driver as the skier!

[Outsider1]

Tony,

you mention outside fishing as your primary use, and given your location I therefore assume you are talking about launching at Newcastle/Stockton or Nelson Bay areas. That gives us some idea of the type of conditions you will be boating in.

Some more questions to clarify what you need;

- would this be your first boat?

- what type of fishing are you contemplating? eg bottom bouncing for snapper, flathead etc or game fishing wider?

- any areas not offshore that you want to fish? eg Hunter River or Port Stephens etc

- where are you thinking about doing the skiing and tubing?

- what vehicle do you have to tow the boat?

- what are your storage facilities like for the boat?

Cheers

Dave

[Ocean_Spirit]

Add the Seafarer Victory 6.0Mtr to your list, preferably with a 2.5Ltr Evinrude E-TEC 175 or 200. One of the best riding, best built and finished hulls in this category, and very proven for resale value. There are a couple of good late used models available at the moment on Boatpoint.

[Tony Rogers]

Hi Dave,

This will be my first boat of this type. i have had ski boats and at present I fish with a neighbour outside off a trailcraft 580.
I would be surface and bottom fishing off newcastle as well as Lauriton, Foster and Harrington.
When we go family boating it will be in enclosed waterways and inland dams.
I will be pulling the boat with a late model Pajero Turbo deisal 3.2
Boat will be stored in a shed.

Cheers

Tony

[Outsider1]

Righto, that all helps narrow the needs a bit. I think your Pajero has a 2.5tonne towing capacity so that will do the job for this size of boat (with a braked trailer).

All boats are a compromise is the first thing to realise. The trick is to find the least compromises for your particular uses. Glass vs Alloy, Mono vs Cat etc all have their good and bad points.

A few more questions;

- what do you think of the Trailcraft?, what are your standout likes and dislikes about it? This will gives us some hints on your preferences.

- any injuries or physical disabilities to allow for? (you or passengers)

- best guess on percentage of use split ie outside fishing vs family outings? eg 50/50 75/25 90/10

Cheers

Dave

[mirage]

Hi Tony,

All good boats but IMO the Sailfish Cat is the standout offshore boat there. Heaps of room for a loo and to keep the family happy. However, as Noelm said, cats are a bit shabby towing a tube or skiing. You can do it but it's not ideal in a cat.
Also, the 6.2 Sailfish might be nudging 2.5 tons on the trailer with fuel and all your goodies.
Scotty.

[kitty_cat]

mate the 600c haines signature is the boat for you covers everything you are after and more google the boat and send me a pm or email on waynet@springwoodmarine .com.au i have one in stock ready to go just been delivered from factory i asure you this suits all your needs and your family will love the fresh water sink toilet ect but has the same hull as the 600f offshore fishing boat mate this boat wins hands down for what you are after

wayne
ps i dont use this site much to sell boats but this suits your needs to a tee ready to go.

[Mindi]

Tony I wish I had your problem. I havent owned any of the above boats but have a friend with a Seafarer 6.0 Victory, a wife who wants comfort and an etec 175. It is a beautiful offshore boat, I dont think I have ever had a better ride in a sea. Others on the list may well be as good but if I woke up and found his Seafarer Victory at the foot of my bed I would be pretty chuffed.

[Poodroo]

Give Pinhead a PM because he recently invested in a new boat that I reckon you would be most impressed with. I know I was impressed. It will fit your budget and criteria nicely.

Poodroo

[PinHead]

all the boats suggested are Australian built boats..try looking at makes from other places.

[Jabba_]

As sugest by a few others, the Seafarer Victory is a top shelf boat that fits your requirments... There ride and stability are up among the best, the built extremely strong, and there detail to finish is second to none... There made in QLD and are Australian owned, so money and profit stay in Australia..

Here's a picture of a Victory...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y159/jabba1/470Seafarer_Victory0.jpg

[trueblue]

It would be interesting to know under what ATO criteria and precedent your accountant has decided that you can purchase a boat through your business...

Just rember that accountants usually have a teflon coating if you get done for tax avoidance. Many accountants would put on paper what will make it look like it was your idea which gives them an out clause if things go bad between you and the tax office. They will rarely state to you in writing under which specific tax law clauses you are actually able to buy your boat through your business, or if you are, exactly what your taxation responsibilities will be.

Sliding boat fuel through under a business is one thing, but making the entire thing a tax claim is entirely different. There has to be some business use for it - just like a vehicle.

I didn't see you state in your original post that you had at least some business use of the boat that matches your type of business operation... So I would be going back to your accountant and asking him to put in writing how you can do it legally (Including ATO rulings on other people doing the same thing, in your same circumstances, as well as any other applicable regulation that is applicable.

Just remember your arse would be the one in the taxation sling, not your accountant...

Its also not clever to discuss such things on a public internet site, as there almost certaibly will be a taxation investigator as a member who might take sudden interest in your personal matters.

cheers

Mick

[TheRealAndy]

I want the phone number of your accountant!!!!!!

[seatime]

Need some help. I have been advised by my accountant that i can buy a boat through my business. I am looking at a 6 metre boat and primary use would be outside fishing and family use (muck around shiing tubing ect.) It needs to have a few creature comforts like toilet and seats for the wife and two girls. I have set a budget between $60 and 80k and I need to make an order by the end of this month for tax purposes. I have sent emails all over the country to boatyards for prices and have had the following models suggested.
Caribbean reef runner6.30mt
Spirit Fisher 590
Edencradt offshore 6 mt.
Haines Hunter 650 horizon
Whittley 2200 sea legend
Cruisecraft 625 explorer
Tournament 2000
Haines Hunter 585
Quintrex offshore 630
Goldstar 6200 centre cab.

Any ideas, please remember I need to keep the wife and two daughters happy as well.

The other option is a Sailfisher Catamaram 6200

Cheers
tony

Hi tony,

If you're going to be towing any distances with the Bits-r-missing, and launching/retrieving solo, I'd keep any glass boat to 6m, a plate tinnie could go to 6.4ish m's.
A HH 600C or Seafarer Victory 6m, or similar, would suit you well with the comfort options. The E'craft is a pure fishing machine.
I'd opt for a cuddy/half cab over a centre cab for the family friendly options, and more useable room for 'entertaining' ;) .

[Tony Rogers]

As sugest by a few others, the Seafarer Victory is a top shelf boat that fits your requirments... There ride and stability are up among the best, the built extremely strong, and there detail to finish is second to none... There made in QLD and are Australian owned, so money and profit stay in Australia..

Here's a picture of a Victory...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y159/jabba1/470Seafarer_Victory0.jpg
thanks for that looks like a nice boat. i have sent for some prices.

[Tony Rogers]

Hi tony,

If you're going to be towing any distances with the Bits-r-missing, and launching/retrieving solo, I'd keep any glass boat to 6m, a plate tinnie could go to 6.4ish m's.
A HH 600C or Seafarer Victory 6m, or similar, would suit you well with the comfort options. The E'craft is a pure fishing machine.
I'd opt for a cuddy/half cab over a centre cab for the family friendly options, and more useable room for 'entertaining' ;) . Thanks for that. Yeh I am starting to think fibreglass and cuddy cab to keep the missus happy. What do you think outboard or inboard?

Chers

tony

[gofishin]

What about the Outsider series?

[tenzing]

Tony I wish I had your problem. I havent owned any of the above boats but have a friend with a Seafarer 6.0 Victory, a wife who wants comfort and an etec 175. It is a beautiful offshore boat, I dont think I have ever had a better ride in a sea. Others on the list may well be as good but if I woke up and found his Seafarer Victory at the foot of my bed I would be pretty chuffed.
Tony I'm not sure about your accountant"s advice, I,d be bloody careful/ get a second PAID opinion before you put YOUR lollies on the line. However;
I have a seafarer victory just as decribed. It has the dunny and all the mod cons.
Picked it up with less than 100 hrs on it and you might be interested in the money you could save . There are some good looking ones on the site mentioned but I reckon you could improve somewhat on their price .
They are a fantastic boat and one of the best riding hulls ever made.
Brendan.

pm me if you want specifics about the price

[Surething1974]

It would be interesting to know under what ATO criteria and precedent your accountant has decided that you can purchase a boat through your business...

Just rember that accountants usually have a teflon coating if you get done for tax avoidance. Many accountants would put on paper what will make it look like it was your idea which gives them an out clause if things go bad between you and the tax office. They will rarely state to you in writing under which specific tax law clauses you are actually able to buy your boat through your business, or if you are, exactly what your taxation responsibilities will be.

Sliding boat fuel through under a business is one thing, but making the entire thing a tax claim is entirely different. There has to be some business use for it - just like a vehicle.

I didn't see you state in your original post that you had at least some business use of the boat that matches your type of business operation... So I would be going back to your accountant and asking him to put in writing how you can do it legally (Including ATO rulings on other people doing the same thing, in your same circumstances, as well as any other applicable regulation that is applicable.

Just remember your arse would be the one in the taxation sling, not your accountant...

Its also not clever to discuss such things on a public internet site, as there almost certaibly will be a taxation investigator as a member who might take sudden interest in your personal matters.

cheers

Mick

I agree with Mick - I asked my accountant if I could do the same and put the boat through the company, I was told "Sure, if you want to be audited" I have nothing to hide if I was but the boat would not work!

Even the fuel is borderline (boat is at the marina, always fill up there) justifying 200L of unleaded from the same marina each weekend would be a little suss!

I would be getting another opinion...

[Surething1974]

I agree with Mick - I asked my accountant if I could do the same and put the boat through the company, I was told "Sure, if you want to be audited" I have nothing to hide if I was but the boat would not work!

Even the fuel is borderline (boat is at the marina, always fill up there) justifying 200L of unleaded from the same marina each weekend would be a little suss!

I would be getting another opinion...

Hang On... Unless the accountant is the MRS!

[Jabba_]

I agree with Mick - I asked my accountant if I could do the same and put the boat through the company, I was told "Sure, if you want to be audited" I have nothing to hide if I was but the boat would not work!

Even the fuel is borderline (boat is at the marina, always fill up there) justifying 200L of unleaded from the same marina each weekend would be a little suss!

I would be getting another opinion...
I was in a top position (tax wise) years ago... I was working at Couran Cove, the later that year I was at Cylinder's beach, N/straddie..... Because I am a contractor I would off be perfectly legal for me purchase a boat and right it off against my income...

Unfortunately at the time I could afford a boat

[TimiBoy]

My Accountant also said I WOULD get audited if I claimed - and I had a legit use there for a while. I weighed the following;

I have nothing to hide, but I don't want to be audited;

If I claim depreciation/GST I have to pay it back at the other end when I sell if the boat holds value;

A log book will be required for documenting private/work use;

There may be some requirement for having the boat in survey if you are to use it for work.

In short, I studied the math and the whole shebang just didn't add up.

If your Accountant didn't advise you re audits, get a new Accountant, because they WILL audit you, and it's not his problem. He should have told you that.
ATO absolutely hate boat claims with a passion.

I'd be willing to bet the size of claim you'd have wouldn't be a huge percentage anyway - most often not worth it, I reckon.

And boat wise in that size? If the wife and kids are a consideration - Fibreglass, for a smooth, quiet ride. I'd go the Seafarer, Signature or Cruisecraft. The CC (while I have the 685) has a reputation as "Bruisecraft" - they can ride a little hard. The Haines I believe has a tendency to sit a little on the side (due to the deadrise) but this also gives it great performance in the rough - your tradeoff to make. The Seafarer is the pick of the bunch I think, but they all have excellent resale (which will cause you a capital gains headache if you claim the boat!!) These 3 brands in fact have excellent resale. Pick up a copy of Trailer Boat mag - other brands don't make the $$$ second hand.

Have a look at other engine options to the ETEC. I believe most Seafarer dealers will push it, but don't just take their word, have a look at other engines and make your own - informed - choice. ETECs are fine, but just make sure you get the right engine for you, not the Dealer...

Cheers,

Tim

[seatime]

Thanks for that. Yeh I am starting to think fibreglass and cuddy cab to keep the missus happy. What do you think outboard or inboard?

Chers

tony

I'd go with a 4 stroke outboard on a 6m fibreglass cuddy cab for your intended uses.
Upside of an inboard is the better balance of weight distribution they provide, downside is the useable space they take up, might be better suited to a larger/longer hull than you're looking at, imo.

In the 4 strokes - a Suzuki, Honda, Yamaha or Mercury will all offer a powerful, economical, quiet and family friendly motor to suit.

regards
Steve

[Mtx]

I think if your accountant has found a loophole in the ATO laws then post his details on here, He will be the busiest accountant on the face of the earth.

[STUIE63]

I think if your accountant has found a loophole in the ATO laws then post his details on here, He will be the busiest accountant on the face of the earth.

Yeah i'd be dealing with him
Stuie

[Outsider1]

Poor old Tony probably wasn't after tax advice! but yeah it is questionable. I am a qualified Accountant (though not a practicing one) and I would agree with Timiboy's summation.

A mate struck the same issue on capital gains. Chartered his sailing cat for years and wrote it down to almost nothing. Now he can't sell it without triggering a big tax bill. Nothing wrong with that, he is still in front but you need to be aware of these issues.

Cheers

Dave

[tigermullet]

Yeah i'd be dealing with him
Stuie

Me too!

I can't get a cup of coffee out the accountant we use unless an order, invoice, and receipt are attached.:P

[Sea-Dog]

It would be interesting to know under what ATO criteria and precedent your accountant has decided that you can purchase a boat through your business...

Just rember that accountants usually have a teflon coating if you get done for tax avoidance. Many accountants would put on paper what will make it look like it was your idea which gives them an out clause if things go bad between you and the tax office. They will rarely state to you in writing under which specific tax law clauses you are actually able to buy your boat through your business, or if you are, exactly what your taxation responsibilities will be.

Sliding boat fuel through under a business is one thing, but making the entire thing a tax claim is entirely different. There has to be some business use for it - just like a vehicle.

I didn't see you state in your original post that you had at least some business use of the boat that matches your type of business operation... So I would be going back to your accountant and asking him to put in writing how you can do it legally (Including ATO rulings on other people doing the same thing, in your same circumstances, as well as any other applicable regulation that is applicable.

Just remember your arse would be the one in the taxation sling, not your accountant...

Its also not clever to discuss such things on a public internet site, as there almost certaibly will be a taxation investigator as a member who might take sudden interest in your personal matters.

cheers

Mick

As he said, you never know who's reading things..... ;)

If in doubt about the validity of a scheme or claim, ALWAYS apply for a private binding ruling from the ATO. That way your backside is covered.

http://www.ato.gov.au/corporate/content.asp?doc=/Content/34047.htm

Cheers, Ross

[marco]

i heard on the radio the other day that the tax office will be looking at everyone that has a boat registered in their name . probably scare mongering but it does seem they have a passion about boat claims .