Moreton Bay Family Fishing Challenge

[ON-THE-CHEW]

I have been going down and watching the weigh-ins each afternoon but I will be working today so I don't get to see the final place getters. I know there will be fish getting held back to the last day and I deffinately know of a couple. Just wondering if some one can post up the final place getters in each category?

Thanks Andrew

[jez and suze]

im sure the wilson boys will be there.

[Jeremy]

I know there will be fish getting held back to the last day and I deffinately know of a couple.

Thanks Andrew

Aren't they supposed to be weighed in within 24 hours?

Jeremy

[Lucky_Phill]

yes Jeremy, but this is the problem with fishing comps these days.

Well, the comps that involve monetary rewards.

phill

[youngy]

Bream- 1.7 kilo's luke patterson
Whiting 43 cm m body
Snapper 9.19 k whitehead
Pearl Perch 4.07 j adley
Pelagic 28.36 b addley amberjack
Flathead 1.48 i sekulic
Tailor 2.4 r millar
Jew 16.2 g bell
Sweetlip 7.2 d dixon
Cobia 30.9 b kozien
The only leader weiged in the last day was the jew that was caught the night before, so it would appear NO winners were held over for the last day. cheers wayne.

[harry_h01]

Well time for me to have a whinge.

We got out and fished. Didn't weigh anything in as most of the categories were aimed at off shore fish.

One of my concerns was the level of consistency with regards o the draws and the winners. The rules for the comp were that all winners had to present their pass and their magazine. Yet several times people went on stage without one or the other and received their prize. Once it was even stated that this person was a sponsor and well known to the organizers, and yet he did not have his magazine.

The prize draws were drawn out and what could have been over in 2 hours, took 6hrs. The organizers 5 minutes were more like 30. There was even a concern raised by from some entered into the teams event, regarding accurate record keeping.

I enjoyed going to the weigh ins and meeting new people, but with the inconsistency in the rules and the length of time that they take to get through the draws etc, I am seriously considering staying away next year.

Harry

[whitingkiller]

harry_ ho1

I agree with you mate..
1. the weigh in masters where a joke!..u could tell that they where inexperienced (apart from aldo)...we weighed fish every day and the NEVER marked our fish ..like cut the tail, so that it could not be re-weighed again..

2. the whiting section was for fish of 40 cms or longer, yet they didn't explain that the measurement was from the nose to the fork in the tail...why wouldn't you go to the end of the tail, as this is still part of the fish?.
i weighed in 2 whiting at 41cms on my ruler, but was only recorded at 39 cms under their rules....there was other guys behind me weighing whiting as well and they where not happy Jan!

3. the teams event..well no updates where provided as "it was to complicated for them"..comes back to experience on the weigh station.

4. why at saturday's weigh in did the weigh masters stuff around during the 2 hour weigh in, and then when it got to 6pm, trhe line up to weigh fish was about 20 metres long and they announced that if anyone doesn't want to weigh the fish, OR had a prize winning fish, that they can leave the line!

we have run the King of the Pin weigh in for the past 15 years and hardly have any issues...we are thinking of approaching redland bay club and offering our services for next year, as i know of many fishers that will not be fishing it next year if they don't get there act together.

[harry_h01]

Whiting,

I know a few things happened at the weigh in that were not in the rules. Some of the team s people complained about the lack of accountability.

Regarding the whiting, unless the rules said to the folk in the tail, then it should of been to the tip.

Also there was concern raised about when fish were caught. As per the rules, no one is suppose to enter a fish caught before the kick off of the event, yet how do they check when it was caught? There were people out there from Friday night, and some time before. Unfortunately, you have to rely on the honesty of the entrants, but with such big money on offer, honesty can be pushed.

Harry

[whitingkiller]

harry_ho1

agree.

they should have spread the teams event monies over the first 3 place getters, not just for first..

i bought the length issue up with Aldo (head weighmaster) and questioned why it wasn't in the rules and he said "that is the way i measure fish"...pretty poor reason...they could have accepted our fish but now all they have left is a foul taste in some entrants mouths.

you cannot tell me that their WASN'T people fishing the reef on friday given the great weather and the forecast for the weekend.

i heard 1 team weighed in the same fish 2 days running!!..oh..well...if they can bend the rules and get away with it...why not?..i wouldn't...but when their is $$ involved, people do funny things...

[harry_h01]

We were looking to put a team in, but couldn't justify the entry fee for such a small return across 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.

My other beef is that the majority of the fish are for offshore anglers. I have a boat, but I can't go out front and fish the deep holes. If they had an inshore and an off shore section, with defined fish for each, I am sure the numbers would be up, and Mr and Mrs average would weigh in a lot more fish, as would the number of kids entered.

We spoke to a couple at the draw, and they said, it is the same crews that win each year, and they are all off shore fishos.

Maybe it is time for a change, or time to get another comp up and running that covers the in shore fishos more over.

Harry

[LeeannP]

I've seen a netted whiting weighed in at the King of the Pin. Thankfully it wasn't heavy enough to win a prize but these comps do bring out some riff raff.

[whitingkiller]

Hi Leanne

Yes, there was one last year...but what do you do?...u cannot say, hey that fish has been netted..u r never going to stop people doing the wrong thing when there is money involved...but funny enough, some people still do the wrong thing just to win a trophy!!!!!!

my gripe wasn't about the fish..as it is part & parcel at fishing comps, it was about how the comp was run this year, as previous years, it has been great...

[Leighton]

why is an Amberjack classed as a pelagic?

[harry_h01]

Leighton

Maybe cause they looked in a book and said it was, or to simplify the competition, and the reduce the different types of fish entries to manage.

either way, it is wrong, and there needs to be a better system or a vast improvement.

They said numbers were up this year, I would like to see the books. To me there was a lot less people there on Sunday this year for the final weigh ins and draws.

[whitingkiller]

harry- ho1

last year the winning team was Team Wilson (consisting of the 2 Dixon brothers who are ex- charter deckhands..so they have a wealth of knowledge)....we ran second last year by 1 point....

this year..Team wilson changed to Cruisecraft and consisted of the following fishos (Darren Dixon, Troy Dixon, Brett Seng, Bob Cozien & Mick Laps)..

Some damm good fishos amongst that crew..which makes it extremely hard to beat..but..they did run 2nd...so goes to show u that the best team doesn't always win.

we finished 4th this year, as we could only get to the reef on saturday..

[thelump]

As a member of RBAFC I will let the guys involved know of your concerns and hopefully one will respond!

[whitingkiller]

thanks the lump..

would be good to pass on this feedback that will only improve it next year..
no comp is run perfectly but this years fell well short of the mark.

[LeeannP]

Hi Leanne

Yes, there was one last year...but what do you do?...u cannot say, hey that fish has been netted..u r never going to stop people doing the wrong thing when there is money involved...but funny enough, some people still do the wrong thing just to win a trophy!!!!!!

my gripe wasn't about the fish..as it is part & parcel at fishing comps, it was about how the comp was run this year, as previous years, it has been great...


Looks like nothing's changed. The one i mentioned was from 1995 or 1996, netted in the Logan river and given (knowingly or unknowingly) to a competitor. Although the fish had been scaled for the weigh in the net marks were still well and truly prevalant. There are a lot of dishonest people out there and unfortunately the cheating takes the gloss off the comps. I know the organisers do the best they can.;)

[harry_h01]

The Lump

Thankyou for the opportunity to pass on our feedback. I know we could talk to the folks there, but a lot were preoccupied with getting the show on the road, so we left them alone.

The main thing to report is the running of the draws and making sure that the same rule applies for all, also the time taken to get through the day. When they say 5 mins, they should mean 5 mins, not 15 plus.

We understand this is a fund raiser also, and the raffles are part and parcel, but lets keep the presentations moving.

Also, could I suggest the development of two sections. An in-shore, and and off-shore section, with different fish types in each, and when you pay for entry, you only enter one section. That way it would keep the people fishing close more interested, and seeing that there is a chance to weigh in a fish and win a prize.

Whiteing Killer,

Congrats on how your team went. As part of a team last year, we felt we were left behind because we couldn't get out deep. As I said, if there was an in-shore and an off-shore section, and you could only enter in one or the other, I think the comp would be a lot more fun, and a lot more people would enter.

My thoughts

Harry

[PinHead]

therein lies the reason why most people do not fish in these "competitions".
The rules are not standardised..no way of keeping the cheats out. There was a bream that won King of the Pin a few years back that was not even caught anywhere near the Pin.
So why do people enter these comps..only one reason..the prizes.

[Nugget]

Normally this is a well organised comp - I usually hear very few complaints.
This year I was inundated with people complaining.
I fished for jew with a few mates who tried to weigh in a 13kg fish on Sun but were told it wasn't worth weighing - 'there's a bigger one'.
However the day prize was given to a 900gm jew!
In the long run it didn't matter because they took 1st & 3rd but it was dissapointing either way.

Nugget ><>

[Jimbo73]

I fished the comp and have to say i wasnt to happy with a few things.First is the point whitingkiller has brought up about the way they measured the fish.I and everyone else measures a fish to get maximum length out of the fish but the way they measured a whiting would have to measure 42cm to qualify for the 40cm club.Nev Wyatt measured in a whiting that he said measured 44cm,yet they measured it at 40.5cm.Big difference,he got them to remeasure the same fish on the monday 2 days after origanal measurement because he wasnt happy and they measured it at 42.5cm.WTF the way they spread the tail of the fish to measure can never be totally accurate.Less spread more length,more spread less length.Then they stuffed up and didnt even know their own rules and awarded Nev the daily prize for whiting because he had the heaviest but the catergory was for the longest,which Mal Boddy had with 43cm.So the whole weekend went on with them upgrading the best catch esky with the heaviest whiting when it should of been the longest,which was never really seen because they gave the fish back to him.Not trimming the tails is one of the stupidist things they could do,because who knows how many times the same fish was weighed in.Hopefully its better next year cause i wasnt happy with what i saw at this one.Cheers Jamie

[Walter Ninnes]

I would like to reply to Harry_Hol and Whiting Killer regarding their comments aimed at the 2008 Family Fishing Challenge. As I actually ran the competition this year and last year I am qualified to give an accurate response and will try to address each comment honestly and without glossing over.

Firstly, the weight-in station did turn out to be a headache to some competitors and myself. The two reasons being confusion over method of measuring length of fish and inexperience from some of the guys on the table and myself. Aldo used a recognised competition method to measure fish that I did not properly explain to the crowd or have in the rules. I take full responsibility for these problems and apologise to anyone who felt aggrieved. I do believe that this method was used across the board and that all species prizes went to the correct winner. Mark my words this will not happen again and planning is already underway. This includes full diagrams of method of measurement in the rules and at the weigh station. We will be looking at other competitions and fishing standards to finally determine the method of measurement that we will adopt.

The problems at the weigh-in table did flow through the teams scoring. You have no idea the amount of work that went into software applications to ensure this would run smoothly and provide teams with information they needed. Poor data and a major hard drive crash made Saturday night and Sunday a nightmare for me personally. We finally did get the correct result with the patience of the two captains who’s teams were at the top of the table.

Again, I’ve learnt some valuable lessons to apply next year. No one was experienced at this type scoring and recording because we had only done it once before. Your point regarding marking of fish is also very valid and was already included in our debrief discussions.

You seem to have misinterpreted our announcement after 6pm at Saturdays weigh in. We announced the sizes of the 3rd placed Senior fish and Second placed ladies and juniors fish and told competitors that there was no point in staying in the line if you couldn’t beat these sizes. I can’t see what was wrong with this given the situation. We always have a share of “timewasters” in our queues but being a family competition we understand that some people, especially kids, enjoy the process of weighing-in and we normally encourage them if they have already killed the fish. Otherwise we try to promote releasing the fish.

From this point on, gentlemen, we will have to agree to disagree because quite frankly some of your comments are, to put it politely, nit picking and uninformed.

Firstly, every competitor who came to the stage for lucky draws etc. had a magazine in their hand or protruding out of a coat or pants pocket. This included our well known sponsor as two of us spotted his magazine which was tucked away. Had we got heavy handed and made them pull out the magazine and checked their number you would have whinged and called us “Gestapo” or something. There was one gentleman we did pull up who had his up his jumper.

Secondly, we do our best to stay on time but sometimes things go astray. The times are clearly setout in the magazine and we did not exceed these times by more than 20 minutes. Not perfect but that’s life.
Thirdly, regarding the spread of prize money in the teams, how we and our sponsors decide to allocate prize money is determined by various factors. It’s easy to sit back and bag something when you don’t know the first thing about the decision process. Get me a good cash sponsor and I can make changes.

Fourthly, I am struggling to comprehend Harry’s comment regarding this being an offshore competition. We have a $50,000 tagged bream released locally, of the 10 senior species, three are inshore (Bream, Whiting, Flathead) three offshore (Pearl Perch, Pelagic, Sweetlip) two are Inshore/Beach (Jew/Tailor) and two are both offshore inshore (Snapper and Cobia) with Snapper often won (including this year) by inshore fish. The ladies and juniors categories are bream, whiting and snapper. We have a kilo bream and 40cm whiting club to even up prizes and discourage cheating. On top of this we have lowered the maximum flathead size for the competition to 60cm to give average Joe a better chance.

The teams competition is designed to reward the team that can catch a full range of species regardless of size as well as rewarding first, second and third heaviest of each species. We were looking at bringing offshore and inshore fishos together in a team not separating them as is always done at competitions and clubs. It sounds to me like some professional jealously or tall poppy syndrome. Why else would you name the Dixons etc. There is plenty in the normal entry for Mr & Mrs Joe Average as stated above.

As you know the teams pay a significant amount more to cover the shirts and prizes. This section is for serious fishos.

Your comments about Mr & Mrs Joe Average weighing-in a lot more fish if we change things amazes me. This is the exact opposite of what a dead fish competition should be doing. We are very conscious of the fact that each Challenge could be our last because dead fish competitions probably won’t be around forever. We are looking at a live fish section, though we are at a very early stage. We should be encouraging the kids to catch and release unless it’s a realistic chance of taking a place or we want to eat it. Not simply in the name of a fishing competition. The greenies would love to jump on us if we encourage killing more fish.

You mentioned that you run the King of the Pin Competition. What’s wrong with it? Isn’t it a good inshore competition? I’ve heard it’s good. Why would you suggest that someone should start up a new competition when you’ve got one two weeks after ours? Why bag us? This competition is for everyone not just people with personal agendas who want it to suit them.

We’ve taken the boring everything by heaviest weight format and tried to breathe some air into it. We are having a go mate. This is my second year running it and I am proud to be associated with such a great group of clubbies who have always put on a wonderful weekend. A couple of “problems” and you want to tear the house down. You don’t even seem to be able to work out what team you were in. No one in last year’s second placed team was in this year’s fourth placed team as far as I can gather. Sour grapes perhaps.

You’ve almost gone as far as calling us liars in regards to crowd numbers. When we said numbers were up that was in regard to entrants. Last year a combined total 757 seniors and juniors entered and this year it was 803. That is a 6% increase. It was very obvious (blind Freddy stuff) that overall crowd numbers were down on Sunday and Monday because of the downpours. Did you think we counted the crowds and then lied or something?

Finally, it’s interesting that you mentioned offering your services to the Redland Bay Club. We have already discussed the option of approaching other Clubs at our debrief on Tuesday. However, instead of a phone call you decided to pull the p out of our competition via an internet forum. As far as we’re concerned we don’t want you two at our competition let alone near a weigh-in table.

We are only as good as our last game and we acknowledge improvement is necessary. The large majority of people had a great time as always. I’m sure that the few aggrieved people will consider our track record and know that we will iron out the bugs for next year. LIFE IS ALL ABOUT LEARNING

[Nugget]

Wal thank you for your in-depth reply.
It is very obvious that you realise there were a few problems this year and you are going to make sure they are fixed for future comps.
Nobody is perfect - King of the Pin has its problems too whitingkiller so don't suggest you are infallible.
The most important thing is that Wal has taken the comment and criticism on board and will make every effort to ensure improvements for next year.
Let's hope you can improve the weather too Wal! - cheers mate
Nugget ><>

[PinHead]

Wal was doing a pretty good job of explaining everything until he got to: "As far as we’re concerned we don’t want you two at our competition let alone near a weigh-in table.". Well done Wal..that just lets everyone know the attiitude of the comp organisers...if you don't like it, then they don't want you. Excellent way of promoting your comp.

I'll bet you Wal, the the greenies will be more against a C&R comp than a catch and kill comp.

[Jimbo73]

Thanks Wal for the reply,Im glad that you have heard and taken in the problems and complaints and are already planning ways to fix them.It may not be the best place to openly complain about the comp,but it seems it somehow got the attention of you so it aint so bad.I agree with measuring fish when there is suspected cheating,but i just didnt find the way you's measured 100% accurate,which you have to be or things start getting ugly.Cheers Jamie PS why didnt you trim the tails to identify weighed in fish?

[Reel Nauti]

It's a sad day for any business/sporting club/group when the manager doesn't want further custom from a 'customer' who has complained.

Dave

[whitingkiller]

wal,

maybe a better way of explaining yourself was via a PM message.

some of your comments don't make sense and you really haven't promoted your club in the best light by using threatening tactics.

hope you learn from your mistake and take our criticism as purely constructive towards a better 2009 comp.

i am by no way perfect and i have never been involved or entered a comp that was!

all you can do is minimise the damage for further years.

[Ausfish]

If you have a problem with the way a competition is run and prizes awarded then contact the Queensland Gaming Commission - http://www.qogr.qld.gov.au/commission/queensland_gaming_commission.shtml

Lodging a complaint with them is the best way to get dodgy competitions sorted out.

A good idea to video the prize draws so you have proof that the conditions were not adhered to.

If you do not like the comp then don't enter, it is that easy.

With a comment like this, maybe they don't want anyone at the comp.
"As far as we’re concerned we don’t want you two at our competition let alone near a weigh-in table."

I do not like fishing competitions anymore, I have entered a few years ago and even won one. But the allegations of people cheating, pre fishing and dodgy bros approach the way some are run turned me off them.

Maybe if they used a secret weight system for the prizes instead of biggest/heaviest they might get a few more people interested and stop the cheating.

[Walter Ninnes]

Guys there are complaints and then there are vindictive comments. In my private business and in the running of this comp I would never ignore complaints or constructive criticism of my clients or entrants and would welcome people to call me and discuss any issues of concern. I stand here admitting there were mistakes,system failures and confusion at the weigh in table no argument about it. As manager of this event I take full responsibility and sincerely apologise to anyone who this effected. I am bitterly disappointed at a personal and professional level with myself for not covering all bases and having foolproof systems in place. I have copped flack from everywhere, most of which is justified. However in my private business, as with most people, I will not tolerate people who have personal agendas or threaten the very fabric of my business. Whitingkiller you and Harry chose to air your complaints on this forum fair enough but when it gets down to suggesting someone start another comp because ours is so bad I cant and wont accept that. That is a slap in the face to all our hard working members past and present as are some of your other comments.Most people do not have the slightest concept of the hard work and dedication that goes into these events. I will do all within my power to ensure that next year these problems are eradicated. The bottom line is though- if you feel so put out that you need run us down to the point of calling for another comp then by all means don't come next year. Save us both a lot of stress. If people find that too blunt Im sorry. I do not feel the need to private mail you as i am comfortable with presenting my side of the story in the forum you that chose . Lesson one in this business is " You cant please everybody and will die trying" There will always be people that our style of comp doesn't suit ,its just a fact of life and there is no point being in the comp if your not happy. I did not intend my tone to be threatening if some have interpreted me that way however I strongly defend my club and its members against uniformed and unnecessary comments. You cant say on one hand you want to help while the other hand is stabbing us.
There is a difference however if your not happy because we failed in a critical area like the weigh in table. This is unacceptable and as i said will be rectified. I can only ask that these people be understanding, look at our past record and give us one chance.
Unfortunately myself and the club have to live with this baggage for the next twelve months before we get the chance at redemption. We look forward to setting the record straight. My phone number is in the Challenge magazine and
entry form should anyone wish to discuss any issue relating to the comp big or small. A lot of issues can be sorted over the phone rather than bringing it to a public forum. I would particularly like to speak to Harry or Whitingkiller as we dont know each other from a bar of soap and I would rather speak directly than bounce comments back and forward.

[whitingkiller]

Wal,

I don't know where the issue of "start up a separate comp in competition to yours" came from.???..certainly not me....as i know how much work is involved in running a comp...but not to the size of yopur club's comp, so i could only imagine the background work that goes into it..this your club needs to be congratulated on, as sponsors seem to be getting harder to get every year.

you guys have run and set a high standard for a competition for many years now and since we, the public are use to your club running the comp at this high standard, when issues occur, they stand out glaringly.
everyone is allowed a bad day/comp and maybe now we will all learn from this forum.

i think it is time to put this matter to rest and all take a positive outlook towards next years event.

you won't have any further criticism from me as i aired my concerns and that is the end of it.

i will send you a PM because there is another matter that i need clarified that you may be able to shed some light on for me.

[harry_h01]

Wal

I will contact you this week and have a chat.

I thankyou for your responce, and those of the other forum members.

Lets put this one to bed, as Whiting has said.

Harry

[Walter Ninnes]

Thanks guys I agree

[Lucky_Phill]

Done. This thread is now closed.

phill