how does bigger plate ride?

[Captain Seaweed]

Hello All,
I have a Seafarer 6.2 twin 115 jonnos great electronics and overall a great rig but I am looking to upgrade to a larger boat. The reason I am upgrading is I enjoy heading out wide to explore new area and still want to feel safe if it blow up and dont have to be so weary of conditions turning bad. The Seafarer dosnt have a self draining deck nor any kill tanks which will be a must in the new boat. I was looking to upgrading to a 685 Outsider or even a larger Plate boat. How do the larger plate boats ride? I had a 5.75 centre console previous and a 15 knot wind would blow it about when under travel and it felt every lump on the water. The Seafarer to my surprise rides well but still needs to slow over normal sloppy bay chop and will still bone jarringly slap if you hit a swell off centre. I am looking to eliminate the bone jarring slap with a bigger boat. Can anyone comment who has a larger plate boat or even a larger glass boat. I am interested in razerlines, noble super v and maybe even stabi craft but would like some honest opinion on these boats in respect to ride and any other outstanding plate boats pressed aluminium is not an option.


Thanks in advance
Marty

[disorderly]

I was looking to upgrading to a 685 Outsider or even a larger Plate boat. How do the larger plate boats ride? . I am looking to eliminate the bone jarring slap with a bigger boat.


Thanks in advance
Marty

You are dreaming if you think that going to a bigger platey is going to make for a more comfortable ride than a Vagabond.
I would also be a bit doubtful if a 685 CC is going to offer any appreciable improvement in ride.
When it's rough and windy all trailer boats are going to be uncomfortable....just drive to the conditions.
Sounds like you need a Berty 35'.http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/smiley.gif

Scott

[dfox]

You are dreaming if you think that going to a bigger platey is going to make for a more comfortable ride than a Vagabond.
I would also be a bit doubtful if a 685 CC is going to offer any appreciable improvement in ride.
When it's rough and windy all trailer boats are going to be uncomfortable....just drive to the conditions.
Sounds like you need a Berty 35'.http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/smiley.gif

Scott

I agree with scott, you could end up spending a fortune and still end up with a simular ride to what you already have, maybe worse.
When its rough in the seafarer, its going to be rough in any trailer boat ...foxy

[Spaniard_King]

Captain,

To me everything you have described would be pointing me to a 6-7m cat.

[Chimo]

Hi Marty

I read your post with interest.
\
"The Seafarer to my surprise rides well but still needs to slow over normal sloppy bay chop and will still bone jarringly slap if you hit a swell off centre. I am looking to eliminate the bone jarring slap with a bigger boat."

Have you fitted trim tabs to your Vag as yet?

I had experienced the same issue when hitting "Off-Centre" but since fitting a set of Lencos it rides much softer as its easy to keep level so the "vee" works as it should. Even with the Lencos in the up position and even when travelling slow their effect is to have made the hull another foot or so longer which is also worth while.

The other thing that helps is the pair of foils fitted to both engines which adds to the bum lift which again makes the ride softer and more predictable as the entire hull is now working especially in choppy conditions. I estimate that the foils lifted the tail at least 4 to 6 inches at medium cruise in rough conditions (say 12 to 18 Kn) with the obvious effect that the waves no longer try to rip the Seafarer stickers off the sides and oviously there is a lot less spray.

I have also lifted the engines quite a ways up so the foils are above the water surface at higher speeds when the motors are trimmed out.

It all helps to make it better sea boat in a range of conditions.

While self draining may be nice why do you want to get wet feet? I rarely get any water in it; what are you doing that you reckon you need it.? Backing up in 3rd gear ?

I agree with you about the lack of a kill tank and I also wish the carpets was not fixed too. Laying fish over two fish bins work for me tho!

Perhaps the 6.8 Voyager with a bit better spray protection up front (based on previous comments on here by people who reckon they are wet). Personally I dont know how wet they really are but they have the other things you seek as long as you fit tabs.

I tried the Cruise Craft 685 before I bought the Vag and thought the CC was a bit rough and that was on the bay.

By the way how did the Fraser Is trip go?

Should be an interesting thread

Cheers
Chimo

Good luck in your search. it will in deed be interesting to see what you find in the trailer boat range that betters what you have.

[perko]

Go for a ride in a 7 meter cat, any of the top manufactures have a model that will give you the ride and seaworthiness that you are chasing to fish wide in more comfort.

[Captain Seaweed]

Thanks for the replies fellas. I appreciate your honesty it wasnt what I was expecting to hear. I havnt had a ride in any other glass boat bigger than mine and after seeing some of the big plate boats in the Fraser comp I thought they look like a better ride. I saw a lot of these boats go a lot wider than I would have in the conditions we had in the Fraser Comp. Really not sure what to think. I agree that the seafarer` is a good ride and I thought a 7m-8m platey would have been better. Maybe I should try a run in a few boats before I trade in.
Once again thanks for the replies.
Marty

[Captain Seaweed]

Chimo, I think I need to experiment with Hydro foils and trim tabs like we have discussed in the past. It would be good to sit it out of the water a little more. As far as self draining deck , it is more peace of mind. I have clip in/ out carpet in my rig but find the idea of having the esky in the boat a pain. I was thinking of changing the seating arrangement to match a cruise craft in the way they sit over 2 eskies. I would be interested to do a tandem trip and see the performance of our two boats.
I would also like a run in a cat just to compare. Kevla cats look bloody great but its a few more $$ than I think I can afford.
Cheers for the feedback again fellas.
Marty

[Greg P]

Marty - I dont think it is a question you can answer so generically regarding plate v glass. Top of the line plate manufactures like Fisher, AMM, Riptide and Noble all manufacture great boats just as Haines and Seafarer do. It has more to do with hull design than material used. Glass or plate , if the hull is not designed for what you want ie type of fishing (offshore, bay or estuary) a lot of the features of a certain type of hull will be no benefit to you.

Judging by your current boat you mainly fish offshore so you need to look at features like deadrise and stability and investigate how you can achieve the maximum of both. Other features will be the fishing set up itself as well as creature comforts for overnighter or longer. This is where the right type of plate boat will deliver what you want via the ability to truly customise it rather than bolt on bits and pieces to an existing design/set up.

All boats are a compromise. If money were no issue we would all be driving a 2400 KC or Noosa cat but the reality for me is that even if I could afford to purchase/use a boat like that , I personally dont want to spend 130k+ on any boat.

Plenty of guys here own most of the quality platies here in SEQ so you should definitely try and spend some time in some. That is the only thing you should base your decision on .


Good hunting


Greg

[stevea]

..If money were no issue we would all be driving a 2400 KC ..Greg
Greg, I was lucky enough to fish the top of the hards in a KC2400 on thursday, :P ride was fast and smooth, especially comming down off a top of a swell. Sides were not that high and got bruised a more than some other boats from bumping the sides(combing might have helped a bit). Slept like a baby in the cabin on the way home at full steam and didnt get concussion.

I am in the same boat, considering 5.8m Cabin Plate vs Cabin Fibreglass, fuel economy is a major consideration for me, anyone actually compared fuel consumption with the same size boat and the same 4stroke motor in a plate vs fibreglass.?

Hear reports of 2kms per litre with some of the suk 4 strokes on a plate, no idea about glass.

[lampuki]

Agree with Greg P's comments re test drive - its not optional. My only addition to that comment is that doing a test drive in less than 10 knots is a waste of time, pick a bad day if possible, from rest, see how easily it gets on the plane and handles turns at speed (watch out for cavatation issues) if doing bar work, acceleration whilst turning....i was fortunate enough to have a test drive on my new boat in horrible conditions, thats what your chasing.... how will this boat handle in bad conditions? A square box will seem ok in 5 knt conditions....

With regard to plate vs glass (btw, been done to death in threads on this site, often turns into a pen#$ comp, where the hydro foil boys start beating there chests), it is not a simple formula that glass beats plate....however, from my experience....a good glass boat will beat a good plate... a glass boat of comparable value will outperform its equivelant plate boat IMO.

With regard to the additional cost of a heavier glass boat....mmm.....when it turns 20knots, IMO, the extra $ in fuels is well spent.

[Chimo]

Marty

As requested

"Chimo, send me a pic of the back of your boat as I am interested in the set up. I was looking at hydro foils at one stage but wasnt sure where they would mount them as the back of the pod on my boat is curved and no much flat area to mount them.
If you could send me a pic I could see how they set them up."

Here are pics

I did changes one at a time, ie motor up, then foils and lastly the Lencos. They all helped and together have been excellent to achieve the outcome described earlier.

Re the eskies you want, Seafarer fitted two FRP ones @ 70 lt each one behind each seat, works well and keeps stuff well with ice lasting 4 to 6 days.

Cheers
Chimo

[Captain Seaweed]

thanks fellas.

[Captain Seaweed]

chimo,
what are frp ones? have you also got pics of these?

[Chimo]

Marty

frp, or grp fibre reinforced plastic, glass reinforced plastic ie fibreglass with foam seat "Seafarer" logoed vinyl covers that probably add extra insulation too.

Chimo

PS did you end up moving up the road or are you still living where you were?

[marco]

I would also be a bit doubtful if a 685 CC is going to offer any appreciable improvement in ride.

Scott


im told there is a big difference in ride between the cruise craft 625 outsider and the 685 explorer . the 685 being much better .

[mirage]

Marty,
I agree with pretty much everything said so far.
A bigger plate boat probably isn't going to give you a better ride. Just because a heap of plate boats went out wide at Fraser in crappy conditions doesn't mean they were getting a good ride whilst out there!
I'd wack some trim tabs on before I looked at plate boats. I significantly improved the ride of a 6.4m glass boat I had by putting a set of Volvo Penta QL's on.
If tabs don't meet your expectations you'll just have to get a cat.;D

[Getout]

I must be a sook! If its too rough to travel to my fishing spots in a 6m trailer boat then its way too rough for me to stop and fish, let alone pull anchors up and down, tie knots, bait up etc.

[Captain Seaweed]

Getout....your not a sook mate. Its only when it gets rough in the arvo like most summer afternoons and your heading home from out wide that a 6m boat feels like a 12ft tinny coming through the bar.

[skipper07]

It is a hard question to answer. If money was not an option then the usual KC 2400 would be the go, but for a solid $120k + for a 2nd hand one, it's alittle over the top. These boats will still bang and in certain seas feel unconfortable.

Plate boats these days seem to be closing the gap on the glass boats. I don't think they'll ever be as good but they do make up in extra room for fishing. I've done alot of fishing in a Noble V 6.8 with 225 zuke and found the boat to be a solid performer, although it does bang and jar, and with 15kts and over you still have to drive the boat to the conditions. It amazes me how many people on this site say there been in 25kt winds with 2 metre seas and still say they do it easy.

I have also spent abit of time in a haines patriot over the last 14 months and with the weather being less the average over this time the patriot has well and truley outperformed the Noble. although the ride is not super great, it leaves the 6.8 well behide. it truly is a boat that you can drive hard in average conditions and not be hanging on for your life. All that said it still bangs.

I'd rather be in a glass boat anyday of the week.