falling boat prices - esp with standard 2stroke motors ??

[uripper]

Have been scanning various marine 4sale sites, newspapers, mags & a few larger 2nd hand yards lately to find out what my 'project resurrection' might be worth (or not worth:( ).

It seems to me that 2nd hand prices are falling, especially those with standard 2stroke 'gas guzzlers'.

Enquiries at the yards usually get the "everythings OK mate" & "still got lots of buyers" - hype ?? One guy who has been in the industry over 30yrs was frank enough to suggest we're entering a period of plummeting prices as the economic downturn, high interst rates and high fuel prices continue to bite harder into family budgets - like the "recession we had to have". He reckons standard 2strokes will become anchor material :o . I really didn't want to hear that :'(

Anyone else with observations ???

Mal

[FNQCairns]

The boating Industry is righting it's self a little from the gouging price rises seen over the last 10 years fed by the housing bubble and the 'can only own it if I have easy credit' period now borderline past.

Those engine have had their day rightly or wrongly, industry experts self proclaimed or not will almost exclusively talk up the state of play (look at real estate agents) as long as there is even a fraction of a % of ambiguity in the subject.

cheers fnq

[Noelm]

not too sure that the Motor will make a huge difference (up to a point) because I guess most "old type" 2 strokes will be on older Boats, which would be cheaper anyway,, but if there was 2 newish Boats one with a 4 stroke and one with an equivalent age Carby 2 stroke, then there may be a difference, or more likely a better angle for the Salesman to wrangle a few more dollars from a prospective buyer, but then a good saleman will tell the Customer (if he wants to unload the 2 stroke) that it will take years to recoup the difference in price for the 4 stroke, it will depend on the Salesmans ability to "sell" something that a person may or may not really want or need, and the need for the Dealer to want to get rid of a certain used Boat in the yard.

[Aunty Jack]

A mate of mine has been looking around for a 40hp to 70 hp older 2 stroke only to find junker starting from $1300.I hunned mine down for over a year to get my 70hp merc fitted and full service and tune $1800.the bloke i brought mine from was up sizeing older 140hp evenrude $2800.with warranty.to some thats cheap others not so.as for my mate i gave him my old motor 75 chrysler to play around with last sunday .and knowing him he will get it going in no time flat
if not thats what you would call an anchor in the making.
ps I have a few TACOS TRIM HOUR GAUGES .sets even going cheap

[Gary Fooks]

I got access to Glasses Guide and worked out the 3 year depreciation on every motor on the market. The carby and EFI 2 strokes lose about 25% per annum and the 3 star just under 20% p.a (compound)

Coupled with fuel prices that reach $2.00 per litre and I am not sure if 2 strokes are really cheaper.

Future regulations: The government is doing the cost benefit analysis for regulation – so we may see the public consultation phase before the end of the year. So regulations could just maybe start in 2010. But no later than say 2104.

Regulations want ‘ban” old tech 2 strokes - just stop their import. But their value will no doubt drop on the used market as a result.

BTW I went to look at a new released 40/50 hp four stroke - the thing is 98kg! That’s 2 stroke weight class.

Gary

[Mindi]

Item on American morning show broadcast early this morning here showing Florida marinas half empty, yard full of repossessed boats, and figures on boat sales down 8-10% and falling...all attributed to fuel prices.
Trading Post ads here suggest that 4 strokes sell OK but nearly all longer term ads seem to be conventional 2 strokes....I agree...anchors in the making including mine.

[Gary Fooks]

I read that a number of boat shows in the US have been cancelled recently
Gary

[disorderly]

It's hard for me to see a time where 2 stroke motors up to 30-40 hp won't be required or in demand..
For the average tinny owner who might do 50 or so hours a year I think even with higher fuel prices the 2 stroke owner will still be ahead of a 4 stroke owner in terms of money outlaid and spent.
In larger sized motor,sure,the initial higher outlay may be somewhat recouped over time in a high usage boat.
But overall I think the USA is in a cyclical situation whereby serious consideration is being given to what constitutes peoples basic "needs" verses their "wants".
Not a real bad thing IMO for society to get a reality check occasionally and to realize ultimately how little our rampant materialism and greed really means in the grand scheme of things.
I wonder how long our resources boom and high $A will stave off our own harsh reality check...just hope isn't quite as bad as what appears to be happening in the US.
Yep I reckon there will be some boat bargains to be had in the near future.

Scott

[Dr_Dan]

Might seem like "guss guzzler" 2 strokes are destined to become anchors, but i feel that there is still a market for them. Considering most people are trying to get rid of these motors, there are def some bargains to be got. Yes, they can be expensive to run. But really when you look at the savings on a brand new 4st, you have to use a LOT of fuel before you can even begin to consider the savings.

For example. Just bought a 200hp 3yr old Yamaha saltwater series II, VGC 7K. So now i have a relatively new motor, for CHEAP! New 4st would be 3 times that price. That is a lot of fuel to save to justify it. Yes it can be smelly, yes it can be noisey, but it's all relative.

[435_Mark]

I agree, I reckon the prices of boats in general are coming down. You only have to look at the boats for sale section here to see that boats that are selling have pretty low prices on them. Have a look at what some of the Hornet's have sold for, very cheap for top quality boats. Six months ago they would have got another 3-5k for them easily. I'm planning to sell mine soon and I reckon I will have to put it up for sale and just drop the price $100 a day until it goes.

I think you've picked it in one regarding the standard 2-strokes and their drop in value. I wouldn't even look at a boat that had one on.

Cheers,

Mark

[stevej]

the market is slowing why should boats a luxury item not be affected

all these years of cheap easy to obtain finance has to have a consequence eventually


and regarding the ancor comment, a large percentage of boat owners will use the outboard till its reliabile end life, why is it now considered an anchor cause its not a 4 stroke?

ill use mine just like i did yesterday and worry about the 4stroke/2 stroke debate when i plan to upgrade or replace the engine when its reliability is gone.

i just get peeved when misguided politcians enter debates, case in point an environment minister wanting to ban 2 stroke lawn mowers, the fact is they run for what 30 mins every 1-2 weeks

or combustion heaters, one night of use from a wood burning fire = 1 year of polutants from a car driven 20thousand kilometers.


sorry for the ramble but just dont always believe the hype>:(

[MarkDiver]

I agree, I reckon the prices of boats in general are coming down. You only have to look at the boats for sale section here to see that boats that are selling have pretty low prices on them. Have a look at what some of the Hornet's have sold for, very cheap for top quality boats. Six months ago they would have got another 3-5k for them easily. I'm planning to sell mine soon and I reckon I will have to put it up for sale and just drop the price $100 a day until it goes.

I think you've picked it in one regarding the standard 2-strokes and their drop in value. I wouldn't even look at a boat that had one on.

Cheers,

Mark

Sales have definitely been affected - I'm selling my second boat this year with a 4st on it with very low hours and I've dropped the price $10K in just a year!! That's $10K difference what I paid for it excluding expense on additional work done to improve the boat. Maybe I paid too much, but not $10K! The local brokers say the same thing about the economy and increased forced sales like mine. See my boat in For Sale section if you're curious. 225hp 4st.
MarkDiver

[the gecko]

Eenquiries at the yards usually get the "everythings OK mate" & "still got lots of buyers" - hype ?? One guy who has been in the industry over 30yrs was frank enough to suggest we're entering a period of plummeting prices as the economic downturn, high interst rates and high fuel prices continue to bite harder into family budgets - like the "recession we had to have". He reckons standard 2strokes will become anchor material :o . I really didn't want to hear that :'(

Anyone else with observations ???

Mal

It depends on whether you are enquiring as a buyer, or if you are posing as a seller to a yard that handles consignment. All salesmen are trained to preach 'hot market' to buyers, and 'doom and gloom' to sellers. They are just middlemen after all. Andrfew

[Blaster Bretty]

Wow yeah the absolute truth is that the 2 stroke motor is near the end of its run, Yes it may mean that boats with 2 banger's aboard will be a bit cheaper and yeah they may chew a bit more gas but for the average bloke like me who cannot afford an exy 4 stroke the 2 banger will do fine. And thats the bottom line.
As other blokes have said you'll have to do a heck of a lot of water travelling to recoup the cash difference between the two motors, and as far as fuel prices goes, well i'll be worrying about the car guzzling too much gas before I worry about the boat, in the end which one do we use more? gotta work to afford boating anyway right!
And the 40-50hp 4st that weigh's just 98kg....Pahhh! you would have to put lead weight's in a 2st motor of the same size to bring it up to 98kg's,..... well thats my 2 cent's anyway.

Bretty

[TimiBoy]

I picked up the Trailer Boat mag this arvy, and put it down again. It's half the size it should be. Last month it was 2/3's. Wonder if that means something?

Trade a Boat was as thick as ever...

[PADDLES]

supply and demand gentlemen, supply and demand. boats are a luxury for most people and the first thing that has to go when you're feeling the pinch are luxuries. hence an oversupply of boats with no-one buying. the motor type (2s or4s) might sway some buyers, but at the end of the day there's heaps for sale and there's gunna be even more by the end of the year. don't forget it's winter too and traditionally this is the time of year that a lot of people try to unload their boat to get a new one for summer.

[mookyandlumpy]

sorry a bit off topic but what do you mean by stanard 2 stroke motors, what else 2 stroke is there ?????

sorry im a newbie,,,

[Paradoxx]

sorry a bit off topic but what do you mean by stanard 2 stroke motors, what else 2 stroke is there ?????

sorry im a newbie,,,

EFI 2strokes, all the brands have there own name for it,

Much more economical!
But give me the simplicity of a carby anyday!

[PinHead]

the market for 2nd hand boats is always slower in winter.

[CHAPPY]

This 2 stroke-4 stroke debate is like the gas conversion debate with cars. If you do a lot of kilometers on land or water, the change over is worth it otherwise, keep the existing unit until it wears out. Then when purchasing a replacement, the choice must be made. Until then carry on fishing.

Chappy

[disorderly]

the market for 2nd hand boats is always slower in winter.

Ever the optimist , Greg http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/smiley.gif

[PinHead]

Ever the optimist , Greg http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/smiley.gif

LOL..always..2 stroke..4 stroke..who cares. Boats and fuel prices..cannot do anything about either...who cares??? I am going to enjoy myself..not going to stress over fuel prices or what type of motor is pushing the boat as long as it operates okay. Getting out on the boat is my "switch off" from work and i am going to switch off as often as I can...and I don't care what else happens if I cannot control it//even the bloody weather this weekend..will just have to take some extra green keep warm elixir.

[Coontakinta]

EFI 2strokes, all the brands have there own name for it,

Much more economical!
But give me the simplicity of a carby anyday!

paradoxx, sorry to be a stickler m8, but that isnt quiet correct. Sure there are EFI 2 stroke motors but the ones I think you are refering to are in fact DI (Direct Injection)

And yes there is a difference, particularly in fuel consumption and noise. ;)

[ozbee]

carby four stroke will suffer to soon as newer technology takes over.

[disorderly]

LOL..always..2 stroke..4 stroke..who cares. Boats and fuel prices..cannot do anything about either...who cares??? I am going to enjoy myself..not going to stress over fuel prices or what type of motor is pushing the boat as long as it operates okay. Getting out on the boat is my "switch off" from work and i am going to switch off as often as I can...and I don't care what else happens if I cannot control it//even the bloody weather this weekend..will just have to take some extra green keep warm elixir.

Yeah I feel the same...the name of the game is to get out, catch a few fish and have a relaxing time away from the stresses of life...For me it's not about having the biggest or best boat and motor but purely that I'm able to afford to do it without putting too much financial stress upon my family.http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/smiley.gif

However,I have no doubt that second hand boat prices will drop(as will cars,trucks,light earthmoving equipment etc) as a direct result not only of increased fuel prices but just quite simply because many people have overextended themselves financially and with rising interest rates,higher fuel prices,inflation and a general downturn in building and the wider economy, many of those people(even tradesman , small businessman and more than ever before,wage-earners)that have been pretty flush with cash over the last few years may have to adjust their lifestyle somewhat.....

I can see a fair bit of downsizing and rationalization happening ....there will be many that regret taking all that easy credit that was given out left, right and centre.http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/sad.gif

Meanwhile, I'll keep putting along in my 2 old as sh!t boats that cost me a combined total of 15 grand (including the E-Tec at 11.7 g's)but allow me too get out and enjoy my main hobby without having to worry about breaking the bank.http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/smiley.gif

Scott

[Blaster Bretty]

LOL..always..2 stroke..4 stroke..who cares. Boats and fuel prices..cannot do anything about either...who cares??? I am going to enjoy myself..not going to stress over fuel prices or what type of motor is pushing the boat as long as it operates okay. Getting out on the boat is my "switch off" from work and i am going to switch off as often as I can...and I don't care what else happens if I cannot control it//even the bloody weather this weekend..will just have to take some extra green keep warm elixir.

Yeah pin head.... your on the money there!!! so good to see that in these times of interest rate rise's + fuel price rise's and even the good old grocerie's going up that some peep's can still smile at it all and just keep on truckin, Good on ya pin mate!!

Bretty

[bluefin59]

I am with disorderly ,we were going to upgrade to a cuddy or half cab with a bigger 4 stroke but we are just going to stick to our 100% owned 4.5 fin and fish within our limits and not have to worry about paying a boat off as well ...matt

[r3volt]

I got access to Glasses Guide and worked out the 3 year depreciation on every motor on the market. The carby and EFI 2 strokes lose about 25% per annum and the 3 star just under 20% p.a (compound)

Coupled with fuel prices that reach $2.00 per litre and I am not sure if 2 strokes are really cheaper.

Future regulations: The government is doing the cost benefit analysis for regulation – so we may see the public consultation phase before the end of the year. So regulations could just maybe start in 2010. But no later than say 2104.

Regulations want ‘ban” old tech 2 strokes - just stop their import. But their value will no doubt drop on the used market as a result.

BTW I went to look at a new released 40/50 hp four stroke - the thing is 98kg! That’s 2 stroke weight class.

Gary


I hope my 2 stroke is still running in 2104 ;)

[Splash]

1989 110Hp Johnson 2-stroke ----- Yeah!

[PinHead]

There may be one consolation for new boat buyers..the ridiculous delivery times may get shorter.

[PADDLES]

good call pinhead, they'd be able to whip ya one up and have it ready in a jiffy, lol. you're right though, worrying about the fuel bill for the boat kinda takes the fun out of it.

[Donny Boy]

[quote=Mindi;830903]
Item on American morning show broadcast early this morning here showing Florida marinas half empty, yard full of repossessed boats, and figures on boat sales down 8-10% and falling...all attributed to fuel prices.


Saw a similar thing about boat repos in the states on Pay TV last week.
They're taking them back in droves, and even the resale auctions are poorly attended.
And their comparable fuel cost is about $ 1.02 per litre..............

Hold on to your hats......there's a storm comin'

[PinHead]

good call pinhead, they'd be able to whip ya one up and have it ready in a jiffy, lol. you're right though, worrying about the fuel bill for the boat kinda takes the fun out of it.

I do know of a member that waited about 14 weeks I think it was for a tinny. He certainly has a lot more patience that I do.

[Spaniard_King]

I hope my 2 stroke is still running in 2104 ;)


You have missed the point r3volt, the government wont ban your 2 stroke they will ban the sale of new 2 strokes (they wont be allowed to import them)which will have an impact on the spare parts for your engine some time down the track ie dealers and importers wont carry them.