is this legal or not??

[choppa]

please don't respond to this ,,,, just cast a vote

a snippet from a central qld paper reports the following:

a recreational angler was caught with undersize crabs (2) in his boat by DPI & F officers and charged accordingly,,

the angler protested the charge by stating that the crabs were both caught in the same dilly net and on placing the net on the floor of his boat,, both crabs escaped and ran under the seat,, making extraction a dangerous area in the event of getting snipped by either crab,,

his intention (as stated), was to release the crabs at the boat ramp once he ventured back in,, making it safer to handle the crabs on terra firma,,

unfortunately, albeit a believable defence, the angler was fined,,,

it will be interesting to see what the general responses will be,,, here at work approx 75% state that he was in the wrong,,,, 25% state he was in the right as the crabs were not kept,,,,,, and safety issues overrule

choppa

[DR]

i voted common sense prevails, maybe it did...

i can't help myself, i have to respond:-/

if he was fined, it's obviously not acceptable.
It's illegal to have undersize crabs, end of story.
All this does is, if it happens, you would have to kill the crabs to extract them & return them to the water. If it is allowed, how many ars****es are going to use it as a defence if they get caught with a couple of undersize crabs, which have been intentionally kept??

I would imagine if he had a bunch of legal crabs as well, he may have been telling the truth, if he had bugger all else, he is a bit sus..:P

just my slant on things8-)

[Noelm]

same for me, I could not help but respond, in y neck of the woods, we go crabbing (blue swimmers/sandies) and it is an offence to use any sort of traps in the main channel, but not only that, it is an offence to even have traps in your Boat if you are in the channel, now how do you go trapping and not use the channel??? what happens in reality, the Fisheries guys/girls tend to just kind of over look this fact, BUT there has been occasions where they have stopped a Boat for a routine check and the owner has got a bit "stroppy" so they book them for having them in possesion in the channel, you can squeal and whinge and go to Court all you want, you do NOT win, it is a clear violation of the Law, but is tolerated usually as it is kind of stupid, so I guess, the Law is the Law, regardless of how safe/ethical it may seem at the time.

[kingtin]

Feel compelled to respond 'cause I can just see how some would use the excuse...............and already have.

Absolutely suss as buggery..............it's difficult enough me extracting a crab from a dilly, let alone them extracting themselves.

The law is the law and in possession is in possession. It is up to us not to run foul of the law, not up to the law to make exceptions. If we find the law, or the act of extracting crabs too hazardous, then don't go crabbing, simple as that.

It is up to us to use "safe practice". If the guy had took his time and held his dilly over, or in, a bucket, the crab would have extracted into the bucket, not the tinny floor. Likewise, a muddy pot, don't open the hatch till the hatch is directly in or over a bucket and the bucket should be big enough for the crab to drop into without getting it's legs over the sides.

I've sometimes missed the bucket when I've been trying to hold back the jennies for later returning whilst extracting the cocks and they've run under the floor. I've lifted the floor, found the escapee and used crab tongues 'cause I could just imagine a fisheries officer really believing someone with a pommy accent.............no speaky Aussie::) ;D No need to kill the crab at all to remove with decent tongues.

It's our responsibility not to fall foul of the law, not the law's responsibility to see us as poor sods who can't even extract a crab from a pot without coming to grief.

If this sounds harsh, then think on all those false floors in tinnies that carry yellow raincoats (and some Aussies), and just think how they'd use the excuse.

kev

[sandbankmagnet]

I've had a couple of crabs loose in the tinny at once. Both bigs bucks. Bit of an adrenaline rush, but all good in the end.

When I was younger I was lucky enough to receive a warning for having a crab about a mm under, as I never used to handle them and tried to measure through the pot. Made me realise that I had to learn to handle them properly.

[ffejsmada]

What a goose!

I would have got them out straight away, the buggers could have crawled out and nipped him on the toe!! ha.;D

[timddo]

It's understandable if the crabs were a penny size.

[SeaHunt]

I don't believe him because the fisheries guys found them easily enough, and if they believed him they would probably not have prosecuted him.:-/

Having said that it is a believable story because it has happened to me.

One night I caught a young undersize and really fiesty muddy buck on a fishing line, I didn't even have a crab pot with me.
This guy lets go at the wrong time while I am trying to swing him off the line and he lands in the boat, people stand up on seats while I chase him around on the floor and before I could corner him he squeeses through a gap and goes under the floor. I couldn't extract him at the time and had to wait until I got home, I had to remove a seat mount and then unscrew half the floor which took about an hour, he was still pretty toey and managed to escape to under the other side of the floor. Bugger ... remove the other seat and unscrew the other half of the floor. After about 3 hours of stuffing around I drive the little shit back to the water and let him go. Lucky crab, I guess i could have been pulled up and booked for being in possession of a undersized muddy, that would have really topped the night off.:P

[Whitto]

Yeah the Tooth Fairy made him do it........Whitto;)

[Local_Guy]

Though a plausable excuse the law states that you cannot have undersized crabs in your posession at all and they must be returned straight away. Would have been different if he was trying to get them out as the fisheries approached, but his excuse doesn't make u beleive this.

End of the day, fisheries will win and the fisheries i have encountered around here have been very good.

[NAGG]

How can you not comment on this:)

I just wonder what he said .... when the fisheries officers asked him the question about what he had caught!

I'm thinking ........ "NUFFIN!"

With a response that goes like ........ "ALLO ALLO ..... now what do we have ere?"
......... "YOU'RE NICKED !"


Yep ..... I can picture it now;D

Nagg

[ifishcq1]

I know the fisheries crew in CQ fairly well they are a decent lot and if he was fairdinkum they would have helped him get them out.. wonder how close they were and if they were easily under why did'nt he shake them out in the water?

SL

[rumy1]

I wonder how many times he has gotten away with going to use that excuse but hasn't been pulled up !!!

Throw the book at the sucker !!!

[Noelm]

I saw a similar sort of thing on the News some time back, there was two Divers approached by Fisheries Officers as they opened the Boot of their car, they had over the Limit of Lobsters (Crayfish) as well as Abalone, their defense was that they were going to measure them at the Car and throw back the smaller ones, now I reckon that is a bit of a stretch of the truth, they ended up being heavily fined in Court.

[mangomick]

he , he , he
I had a similar experience. The crab was border line and while I was trying to get a definate measure he got under the false floor. Which was screwd down but which jutted out past the cross beam
Any how I got him home and tried to get him out but he threw a flipper, so I had another go and he threw the other flipper. Any how eventually got him out and I could only grab him and hold him with my thumb and fouth finger with my second finger in the middle of his back and my big finger sticking out in mid air.
Bad mistake......holy F#% @ing $hit
I reckon I let out a roar like a lion but my young bloke who was pi$$ing himself laughing reckoned it was more like a little girl screaming:'(
Anyhow with the help of a small gaff I got him to throw a claw then I was able to smash the claw with the handle .....Holy Jesus ....It still brings a tear to my eye.
Do I think he should have got booked. Sure I do

p.s the crab ended up being legal ;) and I ended up with a healthy respect for mud crabs

[mangomick]

You all heard about old Morton.
He was at the boat ramp when the fishos pulled up and spring Morton with a big Jenny
Morton they say . Now we have you. You know its against the law to have jennie crabs. And Morton says . No Boss this here crabs not illegal, this here is my pet crab Boss
The fishos say Dont tell me this Morton , Weve been watching you.
No Boss this here is a pet crab . I was just bringing it down for a swim. It does everything I tell it too
Anyhow the fishos just to amuse themseleves say, well show us Morton
Any how Morton puts the crab in the water and says to the crab Righto little crab just swim over to the log and come straight back. He lets it go and away it goes.
After a few minutes the crab isnt back and the fishos say Right Morton , Wheres that Pet crab and Morton says, "What crab Boss?";D ;D ;D

[choppa]

You all heard about old Morton.
He was at the boat ramp when the fishos pulled up and spring Morton with a big Jenny
Morton they say . Now we have you. You know its against the law to have jennie crabs. And Morton says . No Boss this here crabs not illegal, this here is my pet crab Boss
The fishos say Dont tell me this Morton , Weve been watching you.
No Boss this here is a pet crab . I was just bringing it down for a swim. It does everything I tell it too
Anyhow the fishos just to amuse themseleves say, well show us Morton
Any how Morton puts the crab in the water and says to the crab Righto little crab just swim over to the log and come straight back. He lets it go and away it goes.
After a few minutes the crab isnt back and the fishos say Right Morton , Wheres that Pet crab and Morton says, "What crab Boss?";D ;D ;D


chopjr wants to know if this idea can work on some of his fish???????;D ;D

i like it

[gogetter]

do the crime be prepared to do the time i say....

[lethal098]

i am sure if he was up front and told them when they approached they were there he would have been right, he prob didnt say anything and then they found, has happened to me and i had to cut a hole to get the bugger out, now i have a stoarge bin right there. we are all open to the law and everyone must suffer the consequence.

[onerabbit]

In possesion is in possesion..........................end of story.

Muzz

[sheridan]

My dad used to catch mud crabs in Bundaberg for a living just before the 2nd world war he had a large row boat and crabbed in the Burnett river .One day he caught quite a few and some how one got loose and latched onto his back the poor bugger had to row back home with this angry crab hanging on to his back now if this bloke was in the same predicament i would feel sorry for him . Also dad used to get 2 bob a dozen for muddies and he used to say they only pick the best

Geoff

[Donny Boy]

Maybe he shoulda told 'em he was taking his pet crabs for a swim at the waters edge........

I can hear it now .................

"I put 'em in the water & they swim a bit, then turn round & come right back !"
The DPI & F guy says "Bullshit !, THIS I wanna see !"

In they go, & 2 minutes later, the boys ask "So, where are these crabs ?"

"What Crabs ???????????"





Nice try son.............here's a little fine for you

[Tim_N]

So how did the Fisheries know where to look? Don't you think it is odd that they found the 2 crabs under the floor? You all know it is hard enough to get a floor up let alone get a look under there. Maybe the Fisheries were onto this guy, dunno, just sounds a little suss they sprung him like that.
Tim

[r3volt]

In possession is in possession? so basically the second the the crab enters the boat you can be fined...

[snatch]

He should not have gone back to the ramp. Simple. Guilty as charged.

[485hussar]

Yeah guilty unfortunatelly.
It would be a tough call by the DPI because im sure they get alot of BS excuses from time to time and I guess its thier call to make. It probably could have gone either way depending on the mood of the officer at the time

[Whitey81]

Fellas,
Sounds very dodgy to me, I think that it is in your posession as soon as it is in your boat. I have heard of a bloke at 1770 that got fined for having jennies in his pots in the boat, his excuse was that he was changing positions and that the fishos should go and get f*&^ed. They fined him . The fishos and marine parks guys are all good value in CQ. They do the job because they love the water as much as us. They generally dont have a look in your boat until the top of the ramp so i would say he was taking them home.

Crabbing at night i have caught several that ended up under the floor that i had no idea about. 2 week old muddies smell nice!!!

Whitey

[FNQCairns]

I think he deserved the benefit of the doubt, outmoded in todays conscience it may be, it once worked to afford an individual some chance of feeling guilty if they got away with something in regulation, low/no harm as this blokes mistake/choice was. As it stands now under law no one is the winner and everyone looses long term one way or another.

Far from PC or sheeple I know, but If it were me and it was an honest mistake for the once common belief that I do not need to protect myself from the law because I am law abiding....and I got thugged under regulation as a result - Until I personally 'deemed' the debt re-payed in full I would look for 'in kind' acts of disobedience/against regulation at every opportunity that are designed to advantage me.

cheers fnq

[Reel Nauti]

That's called vengeance FNQ, and has been the undoing of many.

Dave

[choppa]

That's called vengeance FNQ, and has been the undoing of many.

Dave


agree,,,,

choppa

[oldboot]

If you consider the current legal enviroment.

The fisheries official had no option.

In this day an age police and the like are "judges of fact", in that they discharge their dities on the basis of fact not percieved guilt.

Fact. 2 illegal crabs in possesion, clearly seperated from their natural habitat.

If you have an excuse tell it to the judge.

If the official would not have written the offence up in light of the facts, he would be putting him self up for being reported himeself..... misconduct.....perverting the course of justice ...... and so on.

either way..... nice try but no cigar.

cheers

[FNQCairns]

Very true Dave! also more to a point it is to show no more respect or reason than what has been afforded under law, if I have done something wrong I will take it on the chin without a squeak of complaint, sadly today if I have not done unmittigated wrong but am without video evidence exclusive or other undeniable evidence to prove my case I would have no chance....yes revenge would work to settle the score overtime as there is no other avenue available.

I still keep thinking of the greenzone criminals our country screwed over for ego only, hope they are still using the areas and making a nice but quiet mess of it somehow>:(>:(.

cheers fnq

[Reel Nauti]

Very true Dave! also more to a point it is to show no more respect or reason than what has been afforded under law, if I have done something wrong I will take it on the chin without a squeak of complaint, sadly today if I have not done unmittigated wrong but am without video evidence exclusive or other undeniable evidence to prove my case I would have no chance....yes revenge would work to settle the score overtime as there is no other avenue available.

I still keep thinking of the greenzone criminals our country screwed over for ego only, hope they are still using the areas and making a nice but quiet mess of it somehow>:(>:(.

cheers fnq

But there is another avenue available to each and everyone of us FNQ. It is called a Court of Law. That is where we can argue our case, if we feel strongly enough about it.

We all know that Fisheries Officers, just like Police, don't make the Law. But they are duty bound to enforce it. If we feel we've been wronged by that, ask a Magistrate to hear the case.

Cheers

Dave

[baitwaster]

It has to be ruled illegal. If you were grabbing an illegal crab every time you went out, it is unlikely that you would put them in the bucket with the others. It is more likely that you would stash them somewhere like under the seat out of view. The defence sounds like a pre-prepared excuse to me, and I would suggest that this is possibly not the first undersize crabs that have been in the boat.

One undersize crab per trip, 2 trips a week = 100 undersize crab for the year.
Obviously, 2 per trip doubles the number. Can the authorities allow 200 illegal crabs to be taken a year by 1 bloke because of that weak excuse?

What if it happened in your favourite crab spot?

[FNQCairns]

But there is another avenue available to each and everyone of us FNQ. It is called a Court of Law. That is where we can argue our case, if we feel strongly enough about it.

We all know that Fisheries Officers, just like Police, don't make the Law. But they are duty bound to enforce it. If we feel we've been wronged by that, ask a Magistrate to hear the case.

Cheers

Dave

Yeah I know I covered it above but to clarify, today these law are stacked drumhead style where a member of the public must overwhelmingly prove their innocence wherever justice is sort on rulings of regulation.

This is distinct from matters of civil or small claims where both party's enter the court on the same footing and the law will treat them as equals and judgment will be awarded with weight based on the evidence presented.

It is also distinct from criminal law where a person judged by jury of peers the only truly honest court in the land provided the processes used to get the accused up the courthouse steps were legal.

The court this bloke walked into is nothing more than a departmental/governmental lap dog with ruling reflecting the dogma of the day cast into law by politicians with department heads as advisers.

It's a stacked sham from the person who must use mind twisting ideology or gross ignorance to hand out a ticket to the magistrate who can only rule under the same ideology as the regulation was based. The SEQ Green zones will use the same drumhead trial mentality to gain a prosecution, non of these laws will allow a fair chance of citizen protection and not just by their very existence today the rot runs deep.

The big shame is those at the front line put their chosen brand of coffee above the most basic of respect for their fellow man, it takes a certain grade of physiology or gross ignorance to pull it off, no-one is forced to do it. History is riddled with parallels worldwide there will always be someone more than willing to do the emperors bidding!

cheers fnq

[choppa]

i suppose at the end of the day,,, what i was trying to achieve here was a simple outcome on how many of us have ""innocently"" been in the same predicament,,,

if you re-read the responses,,, place yourself in this scenario,,,, and answer truthfully,,,,,, can you say ""have i been in the same picture""

keeping in mind,,, i didn't have

no mention on what type of boat this bloke has,,,,, could be a kayak,,,
no mention on what he was doing at the ramp when he was "nabbed"
no mention on whether he was "under suspicion"" or a repeat offender
no mention on ""who"" he was
no mention on whether he was local/visitor
no mention on whether he was aware of the size limitations in qld

the negatives are easy,,,,,,,,,,, reverse the above

the sad ending,,, i can ""honestly"" say that i have been guilty of having illegal fish in my possession,,, not intentionally,,, but still illegal,,,, and it just so happens to be in the same area,,,, bloody floorboard

if i was in this blokes predicament,,, i'd be in court too,,,,,,, cause i'd fight it

to take the matter to court,,, is the same as fighting a speeding fine,,, if you think your in the right,,, then prove your innocence,,, it just so happens,, that sometimes we have to appeal???????

some of the responses are based on ""peer pressure"" on those that responded prior,,,, deep down we know the law says he is in the wrong,,, and maybe i didn't make this clear in my initial post,,,, but still,,,, makes ya wonder???

choppa

[Reel Nauti]

FNQ, I am truly amazed by your response. Your rantings make neither rythme nor reason, and appear, at a glance to be the ravings of a wannabe psychologist.

The law is the law, and if you object, pursue the available avenues.

Dave

[Mtx]

fella broke the law - regardless of his intentions.

They did their job.

Dry your tears and go back to fishing or crabbing (legally)

[disorderly]

It's funny..I was quite ambivalent about this topic...but whaddayaknow I took the missus and kids crabbing today and a bloody escapee mudcrab scampered under my seats..
It was virtually impossible to see him let alone have any chance of removing him(my boat is a 45 yr old model with seats across as well as up along the sides)....so there he stayed..
Being a weekday and launching from an obscure ramp I tried not to worry about the little b@stard too much.

Anyway got home...he put in an appearance and was promptly nabbed...a 13cm buck ..oh well into the pot with his legal brothers.

I feel no guilt...such is life....I'm sure he will be as tasty as the rest.http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/smiley.gif

BTW, I am in the process of taking measures (re fabricating the floor)to ensure it doesn't happen again.

Scott

[choppa]

and scott,,,,,,,,, thanks for your honesty,,, it does happen

what would you have said,,,, or done,,,, if by a freak chance the local rangers where on patrol at the ramp and caught you trying to fish the bugger out from his hiding place????????,,,,,

doesn't mean that you are a criminal,,,, far from it,,,,, its like having the oppurtunity to win a cool million dollars,,,,, 10 minutes in the ring with mad dog morgan perhaps!!

at the beginning of this thread,,, i had the same debate happening at work,,,, unintentionally,, this guy ""could"" be a respected fisho,,, caught out on a wrong day,,,,the rangers could be pee'ed off over a number of issues,,, etc etc etc

all i know,,, its happened to me as well,,,,, and i'm normally 99% c&r,,??????

choppa

[snatch]

Anyone caught "unintentionally" taking undersized crabs will no doubt exercise extreme care next time. If I get caught for flat batteries in my torch I will take it on the chin. The laws are there to ensure our fishery survives and so that we do when on the water..

"The rescue party now believe they went past the victims several times in the night within half a mile. It was later discovered there were no flares on board". ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, That is why they are at the ramp. Doing their job. You got caught. Deal with it.

[Braddles]

If it were me handling the case, I would consider:

(1) Did he declare the crabs when I asked him did he have catch on board? If he said no, and subsequent search revealed them - I would fine him. If he said yes, and I cant get them out - here they are and can you help me get them out - I would have let him off

(2) When the crabs were found, is this where he also stowed the decent sized crabs? If it was a stowage for his whole catch - this would indicate he placed them in the stowage with intent. If all his legal crabs were stowed elsewhere, and it was feasable the crabs could have mobilised to where they were, and he did tell me up front as in section one, I would let him off.

I have caught crabs and many times they have let go either as I have raised them oh so close to the boat, or once on board. Many times I have had crew dancing on the seats with big loose muddies running around.

I think you need to let common sence prevail sometimes, and use maturity, experience and the sense of integrety you get from the person you intercept when deciding what to do.

[Young Gun]

Kind of unfair but i reckon he made the wrong decision. You cant keep anything undersize in your boat. He shouldn't be setting dillys if he cant handle em properly.

Ryan:-/

[choppa]

Kind of unfair but i reckon he made the wrong decision. You cant keep anything undersize in your boat. He shouldn't be setting dillys if he cant handle em properly.

Ryan:-/

show me a true angler who can manage an angry crab,,,,regardless of size,,,, in a dilly,,,,,,,,,??

no flak mate,,, but i know if i'm by myself and a crab lets go of the ring and then decides to find a home under the floorboard,,, thats where he/she stays,,, until i'm in a situation thats safe to retrieve it,,,,,,,,,,and let it go

choppa

[dogsbody]

Really choppa how can you put a post like this up with such little facts and expect people to really make a informed decision. Tho i voted illegal in hast, having read it again and thought about it. I should have refrained from voting. You should know better. And so should I. :-/


Dave.

[seabug]

no,,, what he done is illegal http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/polls/bar2-l.gifhttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/polls/bar2.gifhttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/polls/bar2-r.gif 18679.83%yes,,, commonsense prevails http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/polls/bar3-l.gifhttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/polls/bar3.gifhttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/polls/bar3-r.gif 4720.17%


Interesting poll
But begs the question.

Do 20.17% of crabbers take undersize muddies?:-X :-X :o :o ;D ;D ;D

Regards
seabug

[choppa]

Really choppa how can you put a post like this up with such little facts and expect people to really make a informed decision. Tho i voted illegal in hast, having read it again and thought about it. I should have refrained from voting. You should know better. And so should I. :-/


Dave.

so true dave,,,,so true,,,

but even tho the info that was at hand was relevantly limited,,, i've done some searches to try and locate further to no avail,,,,albeit it still proves the point that has been aired,,,,,

whether the crabs where ""being disposed"" off at the time of questioning,,, it was interesting to see responses in the first day or 2 when the post was first established,,,,, common sense tells us that this can and does happen,,, i for one admit that its happened to me,,,, just goes to show that are best intentions tho can lead down a track that we may not like,,,,,,,

choppa

[Young Gun]

main point is, he is wrong, he got fined, his bad luck.

[seabug]

main point is, he is wrong, he got fined, his bad luck.

Hi Young Gun,

Love your reply.

Short and simple and straight to the point.
It is like Speed Camera fines,you have to break the law to get them.

It is astounding the number of people who do not think the rules apply to them.

EG.
Catch and size limits
Brakes on trailers
Illegal tow vehicle
Undersize trailers
Lifejackets and safety equipment
Towing over Legal weight.
ETC

Regards
seabug

[BrewGuru]

I can speak with authority on this one, I was between boats and hired a 13' foot fibreglass dinghy with a 6 HP from Bears boat hire at Dohles Rock, it was the last baot availbale for hire (the only fibreglass one in the fleet) some years ago.
We had 3 people on board and 12 dillies lined up along Woody Point. We were doing quite well and pleased with our catch as we had people up from Sydney staying over to feed as well. As we laid our last row the weather turned bad, we fished for about 40 minutes and decide to pick up our dillies, as we headed out the tide and the wind were having a blue, resulting in the heavy dinghy copping waves over the top, I decided just to pick the dillies up throw them in the boat and head for the little creek the opposite side of Bears and then sought the catch out. We were in the middle of doing that and the fisheries pulled up beside me, they asked I we went for the day and showed them our catch in the esky which were all legal, as we were still sorting out the dillies which still had crab in them,some legal, some undersize and some jennies, We were throwing the ilegalls out before they got to us, we didn't even hear them approach (we were busy) to cut a long story short I was fined $1800.00 they even got me for a jenny claw stuck to the rim of a dilly and said it was a popular practice to keep jenny claws and say that the jenny spat it before release.
So I don't know if the original thread was suss or not, but I can tell all, that my story is absolutely true and I am an absolute advocate of bag and size limits and I have never ever kept anything that was not lehgal to keep.

[Young Gun]

jesus unlucky.. what an expensive feed.. lol

Ryan

[Young Gun]

same as if you cast net an undersize tailor and kill it getting out. i guess youd get done too.

[Reel Nauti]

BrewGuru, I would most definitely have contested that one in court. Witnessess and references can make a huge difference if there is a definite element of doubt.

Cheers

Dave

[BrewGuru]

Well they siezed the whole catch including our legal ones to take home and released them (we were told) under the Hornibrook bridge. Not knowing my way around a court room and solicitors fees and chance I was going to be found guilty anyway, I copped it on the chin.

[disorderly]

Brew guru....
I don't go out in near as rough conditions as I used to but as the skipper I certainly would ,in the event of dangerous weather,preclude the boarding of my vessel in "dangerous conditions" by ANYBODY...

I would,in the event of conditions such as you describe ask the fisheries vessel to "stand off"and follow me back towards the ramp or to a more protected area where such a boarding could be done in relative safety...
I think that by specifying such an action you may also have proven your point and perhaps justified your own actions in not sorting the pots until you had reached a safer location..... at least I think it would be perceived as so in court if you wanted to contest it.

Scott

[Sea-Dog]

I reckon that if you went up before the beak (magistrate) to protest your innocence over crabs crawling beneath floorboards, that he would make the fine stick.

This is because you hadn't prevented this from happening by having a properly designed floor, making it "crab proof."

Guilty because you could have modified the boat to prevent this happening, and you should have foreseen the likelihood of crabs escaping dillies in the boat.

Now, how much is a can of that expanding foam filler stuff?

[oldboot]

I reckon that if you went up before the beak (magistrate) to protest your innocence over crabs crawling beneath floorboards, that he would make the fine stick.

This is because you hadn't prevented this from happening by having a properly designed floor, making it "crab proof."

Guilty because you could have modified the boat to prevent this happening, and you should have foreseen the likelihood of crabs escaping dillies in the boat.

Now, how much is a can of that expanding foam filler stuff?

Yep
I know exactly how it would sound.

"A prudent person would have ensured that undersized crabs could not remain abord their vessel by taking appropriate preventive measures":scholar:

Yep they expect you to be a, "prudent person".

cheers

[oldboot]

An important concept here with the unsorted crabs, is the concept of "taken".

From what I understand a fish (or whatever) is considered taken as soon as it is seperated from its enviroment.
Now you can get all narky about the detail.

a crab still in the pot where the pot was laid is not yet taken.

A crab still in the pot while you are pulling on the rope still isnt taken.

now as soon as the crab is out of the water, you can start arguing about it.

Is it taken when the pot clears the water, when you bring the pot aboad, when you take it out the pot or when you put it in the bag?

If you have lifted a crab from the water and transported it somewhere else there is a strong argument that you have taken it.....regardless of releasing it.

I think we must protect ourselves by allowing the absolute minimum time and circumstance where we could be argued to have taken crabs before sorting.

I can see an argument for not pulling pots unless you can sort them immediately or pulling the pots and immediately dumping all that is in the pot before moving off.

There are those who will not bring the pot completely over the gunwale before sorting the catch ( you can do this with some pots).

because if you move off with crabs on board, still in the pot, there is a very strong argument that you have "taken" them.

The act describes two seperate ofences with the same result.
taken undersized and undersized in possesion.........same thing but different legal argument.

I think we need to view undersized as a hot potato or a " fine bomb", something that needs to be got rid of with all haste.

I'm sure there are those who will deliberatly leave undersized in the pots with the intention of taking them......thinking that they can talk their way out of it.
Or
store their undersized katch in a pot and come back for them later.

Think about all the ideas a " nasty person" could have and you see why they prosecute in seemingly innocent situations.

cheers