Camping generators

[SCOTTYGC]

I have been looking at a few small generators but not sure what i need It will be used to charge up betterys for whan we go bush normally 7 - 10 days i figure the easyest way would be to charge them with a battery charger from a generator


they vary in price from a few hundred to a few thousand and as we camp about 2 maybe 3 times a year i dont want to spend a fortune on something thats going to sit in the shed 330 days a year

i just need little help sorting out a few of the terms used in the discriptions

inverter generator ? whats the difference with a invertor

watts? how many do i need ?

heres an ad from one of the cheaper ones i found online , will this do the job?


This is a brand new 800Watt Petrol Generator with easy to start electronic ignition. This workhorse is powered by the 2Hp- EPA certified OHV engine with a cast iron cylinder sleeve for long life.

Features

Engine
- Fuel capacity: 4.5L
- Displacement: 68cc
- 4 Stroke Single Cylinder Gasoline
- Air cleaner Type: Sponge Element
- Maximum H.P.: 1.8HP At 3600 rpm
- Forced Air cooling Stroke: 45 x 40 mm


Generator
- Brushless Single Phase
-Rated Rotate Speed: 3600 rpm
- Peak Power: 1000 Watts Rated Power: 800 Watts
- AC Rated Frequency: 50 Hz Rated Power Factor: 1.0
- DC Rated Voltage: 12 Volt DC Rated Current: 15 Amps
- Dimension Size: 380mm (L) x 310mm (W) x 372mm (H)
- AC Rated Voltage: 240 Volt AC Rated Current: 8.5 Amps
Regular MSRP $499.99



comments please

thanks in advance

scotty

[Mr__Bean]

I was in the same situation as yourself, wondering what to buy and how much to spend.

Then ALDI had 850 Watt generators for $119 a fortnight ago, so I figured how can you go wrong for $119.

Have since used it to charge the camper battery and the boat batteries as test runs and it seems fine for that type of activity.

I hooked it up to a 500 Watt floodlight and seemed to be working hard although coping.

Being a cheapy it is 2 stroke but for those couple of times a year charging camp batteries, it will do me.

- Darren

Link here: http://aldi.com.au/au/html/offers/2827_4543.htm

[SCOTTYGC]

thanks darren
i did see them but wasnt sure about it

this is a link to one on ebay
a bit smaller and lighter than the aldi one
and a 4 stroke they seem to be selling for around 220-240$


http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320249226372&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=011

[PADDLES]

g'day scotty, work out what load you are proposing to drive with the generator and that'll tell you how many VA you need. these figures may need to be multiplied depending on the type of load you are wanting to power (ie. a motor/incandescent lights/ballast lights etc.). inverter type output basically makes a clean waveform. if you don't know how electricity works properly then basically buy a top quality inverter type for supplying sensitive loads (electronics etc.) and if you are going to use the generator heaps because the top quality ones are more efficient. for small amounts of use on basic loads like chargers, basic refrigeration and lighting you can't go past the cheapo ones for value, just make sure you get the right size or you will destroy electrical stuff. don't drive an 800W load with an 850VA generator.

[SCOTTYGC]

Thanks Paddles


It will be used only to charge up batteries from a charger (that I havent purchased yet)
The kids have a small portable DVD with screen that has its own rechargeable battery
The only things running of the batteries are a fridge and some led lighting and maybe a radio

So maybe I should have a look at what charger I want and then look at the genie to sort out the watts? I will need

Thanks again

Scotty

[Reel Nauti]

Volts x amps = watts. Remembering this formula will allow you to determine how much your electrical units draw, and how many watts your gennie will need to produce. Forget the maximum rating as you don't want your gennie sitting at peak all of the time. Bigger is better in my opinion, but that doesn't mean you need to go huge.

Cheers

Dave

[FNQCairns]

I bought a 2000w inverter (cheapy) from ebay, works Ok lucky I am reluctantly handy or it wouldn't work at all.

I used the excuse I needed one to run the fridges if a cyclone knocked our power out for a few days, this got the authorizations past the wife.

Anyway during the purchase search I remember reading the inverters also have the ability to handle a higher startup current than the cheaper designs, total wattage for total wattage.

Also I remember that on many the 12v output can be unregulated so have the ability to cook a battery, forget all of the details now.

cheers fnq

[SCOTTYGC]

So i have my eye on a 12v 15 amp charger

12 x 15 = 180 watts

the gennie i am looking at is 800 watts this will give me plenty of power with room to spare if i find something else to use

thanks again

scotty

[PADDLES]

"reluctantly handy" is such a top description. it sort of sounds like myself, it says "i can fix it, but i'd rather be watching the footy". you're right fnq, because an inverter uses power electronics to create and control the voltage waveform, it can handle spikes and glitches in the load like motor starts etc. having one setup for the fridges up your way would be essential.

[Reel Nauti]

Scotty the charger is 12 volts but I'm not sure that it would draw 15 amps?? It might produce 15 amps for charging your battery? Look at how many amps the charger actually draws. Then use the equation. If the charger is actually drawing 15 amps to run then you are correct.

Dave

[shano]

and also the drawing current will be 240volts not 12 volts! 12 volts /15amps will be the out put voltage! there will be a plate on the charger that will tell you all you need to know! i bought a honda eu10i inverter genne ! i have gone through so may cheap genes over the years! i only go camping about 3 times a year, seems the sitting around they dont like! so this time i forked out the bucks for a honda! 5 year warrenty and also cost $1250 redemption money back!

[Jaffo]

All new chargers have electronics in them and dont handle none inverter type genys. The cheap ones are good for motors eg. drills, fans ect. as long as they can handle the start up current. You will in the end get one of these but in the mean time my be cost yourself a bit of money with a cheapy. Honda, Yammy, Robin are all top units and a price to suit. I ended up with a Kiper, they are on the cheap end of the inverter style. A 2kva one I got for under $1000, had it for four years run it for over 400 hours just change the oil and plugs, starts first pull every time. O by the way I put it on a Crow Meter and it has a near perfict sine wave.

[TheRealAndy]

All new chargers have electronics in them and dont handle none inverter type genys. The cheap ones are good for motors eg. drills, fans ect. as long as they can handle the start up current. You will in the end get one of these but in the mean time my be cost yourself a bit of money with a cheapy. Honda, Yammy, Robin are all top units and a price to suit. I ended up with a Kiper, they are on the cheap end of the inverter style. A 2kva one I got for under $1000, had it for four years run it for over 400 hours just change the oil and plugs, starts first pull every time. O by the way I put it on a Crow Meter and it has a near perfict sine wave.

Actually, the opposite is true. Most (i said most, not all) modern electronics power supplies and chargers use switched mode power supplies. These work by turning the AC into DC (about 400V) then turning it back to AC for the transformer. These types of devices wont be affected by shitty power. The problems come when you try to run devices with transformers and electric motors. I could get technical as to why, but suffice to say that without out a clean power supply they can overheat and burn out.

IF you do buy a cheap one, please be considerate of you fellow campers. The cheap ones are loud. I was camping recently and somw twat was running one of the cheapies from about 7 till 11pm. Very rude.

[Simmo2]

Was gonna add a bit of technical info such as generators are forbidden in National parks, and frowned upon any where cyclones are not happening....
A Quality inverter generator caqn be very quiet for its output.
Quality solar panels for charging purposes should also be considered.

[griz066]

I have the GMC 850 watt gene and it does all i want i use an arlec surge protector on everything i plug into it just in case. Runs my tv dvd & fridge in a blackout or fridge & freezer. Had it for 2 years starts easy and is very quiet for a 2 stroke.

[PADDLES]

you wanna hear quiet griz? try one of the new hondas. you're right andy, people can be pretty inconsiderate with them. scotty, use VA (volt.amps) all the time to work out what capacity you need, your charger is about 180VA plus some losses. a 36W fluoro is about 120VA on start.

[griz066]

you wanna hear quiet griz? try one of the new hondas. you're right andy, people can be pretty inconsiderate with them. scotty, use VA (volt.amps) all the time to work out what capacity you need, your charger is about 180VA plus some losses. a 36W fluoro is about 120VA on start.


Yup i know we took a mates eu10i to Fraser a couple of years ago and we couldnt hear it on the other side of the ute. Just out of my price range is all.:'( :'( :'( GMC will have to do for now;D ;D ;D

[johnny roger]

hey scottie,

i bought the honda 20i about 18 months ago. very quite, very smooth, and it didn't miss a beat for 5 days. it went through about 20 liters of fuel running day and night, powering a 70 liter and a 50 liter camping fridges. running lights at night, and even using the shears for a bit of a haircut! i know they cost a bit more, but after cyclone larry my wife and kids were without power for a week...this is really what made my buy a geny. so basically my geny has 2 uses. i tried it out on the house hold stuff and it went really good. i ran a 500 liter fridge, an upright freezer, a computer, and areial booster, and and LCD tv in the house for an hour. i think it was on its limit with all this going on because when either the fridge or freezer compessor kicked it, you could really hear the little motor start to labour for a split second, then up she went back into life again.

[SCOTTYGC]

thanks every one

like i said earlier i wont be running much of it and it will only be running a few hours a day to top up the betteries

cheers

[madman1]

A mate has one of those 850 watt GMC generators and runs three or four fluros, a XXXX can fridge, dvd players and a radio. Sure they are two strokes and may be a little noisy / smelly but he made up a ply wood insulation box and you hardly hear it at all. A tanks (a couple of litres) lasts a good 8 - 12 hours depending on what is running at the time.

Good luck with the decision.

Personally I would go the GMC for $99 from Bunnings as they have a 2 year replacement warranty.

Cheers


Mark

[Lucky_Phill]

Very interesting thread Scotty, and all good info from the people in the know.

This is the very reason I search here on AF before anywhere else.

In the end I see Scotty is buying his genie to a purpose and budget.

In the ideal world we would have the Honda's.

I have to agree with statements about noisey gen's, well inconsiderate owners of gens. Went to Fraser comp couple of years back and camped. Everyone seemed to have a jenny going... and some were down right LOUD, including ours ( 3.5kva ), but the guys that turned theirs on pre-dusk and left them going while they went fishing to the early hours needed to have think about it. I ended up pulling the plugs on the ones closest to us to get some sleep. Strange thing though, I went to talk to people the next day ( camped next to the inconsiderate guys )and the couple I was talking to though I was having a shot at them, but as they pointed out their genset was running as I talked to them. It was a Honda and was no more than 15ft away behind the camper trailer and I could not hear it.... fan-bloody-tastic. Anyway, talked to ferets, and they agreed and said we could turn off gens when we went to bed, no dramas.

Hope you have success in your generator hunting Scotty. See you in 2 weeks.

Cheers Phill

[northernblue]

I was charging up a waeco battery [they are agm or gel I can't remember] before going camping a couple of years ago.
I was using my old Yamaha, 1000 watt a 1995 vintage, non inverter type. I was using the direct charging leads from the Gennie to the battery, short story is that after about an hour and a half, battery goes
BANG!!
Went so good that the grunts who lived across the road came running outside to see what happened! [if your bang impresses them, then it must be good ;) ]

The story is that these types of batteries don't like invert free gennies [lead acid I am told don't care]
Lucky for me Waeco came good with a replacement [did I forget to mention the Gennie to them? ;) ]
But it was a really big bang, it totalled the plastic casing, the battery itself seemed to remain intact, I was lucky no one was next to it at the time.

[PADDLES]

the 12v feed from most older generators is fairly inefficient and usually of a very limited capacity, (probably really dodgy rectification to dc) you are way better off using a cheapo charger on the 240v feed, it'll charge at a much greater capacity.

[northernblue]

So I learned.
But at the time there was nothing in the Batteries manual saying not to charge directly with a gennie.

[Noelm]

not too sure why you want to go camping and then have a generator, you go camping for the peace and getting back to nature, all Electric devices should be at home where they belong, a campfire for cooking, a Battery torch maybe for seeing, a sleeping bag and tent for sleeping and your done, don't see how a Generator comes into it, ahhh the serenity!!!

[Reel Nauti]

It's not too serene Noel when you're camping in remote areas for a while and the torch has gone flat and the ice has run out. :)

Dave

[John_R]

I was charging up a waeco battery [they are agm or gel I can't remember] before going camping a couple of years ago.
I was using my old Yamaha, 1000 watt a 1995 vintage, non inverter type. I was using the direct charging leads from the Gennie to the battery, short story is that after about an hour and a half, battery goes
BANG!!
.

Those waeco batteries are usually about 35 amp/hr. If it was half full and you were putting 15 amps unregulated into it I can understand it blowing up.


I have a mate's Scorpion DW1000L genny. It has a 12v 10 amp circuit and a "DC protection" button. Don't have the manual and cannot tell if it is an inverter type or if the dc circuit is regulated. Can't find anything on the web about it either.

Also have (2) 100amp/hr gel type batteries to run the waeco freezer. I have a 65w solar panel which should just keep up with the freezer on a sunny day.

Assuming my 100 a/h battery is down to 11 volts - how long can I run it on the generator circuit without risking battery damage? I was thinking 4 hrs x 10 amps = 40 amps. The battery at 11v would be more than half discharged - so should be safe right?

[PADDLES]

g'day john, i don't know a great deal about gel batteries but i believe they need to be charged a special way. i can tell you though that a lead acid type battery will take whatever you throw at it current wise and this is what kills them. generally you want your charge cycle to last 10 to 12 hours, apparently this is what they are designed to withstand. for example a fully discharged 40 amp hour battery should be charged at about 4 amps for 10 hours. this is a general rule of thumb though. ideally you want your discharge/charge cycle to be around 50% of your capacity to give maximum life (again some battery constructions let you discharge further for no loss of life). what this is saying is that for a 40 amp hour basic lead acid battery you should be using around 20 amp hours and then charging it again. this was info i picked up from an exide rep for a standby application for work.

[northernblue]

John_r what does a 65w solar panel set you back?

[Seaking]

Hi guys

Supercheap has a 4 stroke petrol generator at $299.00. Doesn't look half bad. 1800watt, 1.8KVA, 5.5 HP, 70 DB noise level, low oil alarm system.

MMMMMMMMMMMMM I wonder?????

Hope someone can benifit from this.