Would you buy an outboard with no warranty?

[Flex]

Hi all.

I know this topic has been discussed before but Im seriously looking at Importing an outboard from the states.

The savings are so good its hard not to seriously look at it.

Im looking at a 50hp suzuki 4 stroke. aswell as a 175hp for a friend of mine.

Now compare prices

50hp is $9000 aus or $4500us

and the 175hp is $22000 aus or $8500 us.

Thats a freaking huge savings! specially on the 175hp.

Now add in GST+freight im looking at $5500 for the 50hp and $10000 for the 175hp.

The only thing stopping me is warranty. No dealer in aus will acknowledge warranty.

So my question is, whats a warranty worth?

If your local dealer said they'd knock 50% off the price with no warranty would you buy it?

And how many of you blokes out there would buy a brand new outboard second hand with no warranty?but at a savings of a few thousand?. I was considering importing an extra outboard to sell and cover costs..

Thoughts?

[FNQCairns]

Yes I think it's worth it, be your own warrenty the price says you can be, ensure you source any self warranty part needed O/S, better odds by a long shot than a day at the races.....actually I cannot think of any legal odds this good:)

cheers fnq

[swampman62]

Go for it $ saved is a $ earned. Only down side is you "may" do your savings on warranty work.HEADS OR TAILS

[Noelm]

would really p!ss you off if it crapped itself big time after 10 mins (it happens you know) and I think you may still have some sort of Warranty, but none of the "extra" waranties that may apply (maybe) and then of course, if you do need some sort of work, they may just put you at the end of the list for a while.

[Noelm]

OH and be carefull of where the Engine is actualy bult, sometimes it will attract severe duties if it is not made in the US (say like Mexico) also sometimes you will pay duties if the same product is available out here, that has also happened many times before, they make it difficult if you get snagged at our end.

[cormorant]

would really p!ss you off if it crapped itself big time after 10 mins (it happens you know) and I think you may still have some sort of Warranty, but none of the "extra" waranties that may apply (maybe) and then of course, if you do need some sort of work, they may just put you at the end of the list for a while.


You still have USA warranty unless you are getting an extra discount for excluding it or warranty states it is only valid in USA for USA sold motors. I would get this clearly in writing.
If it crapped itself you could just put it in the box and send it back to the US and bring it back at still a lower cash cost than the Original suppied in Australia model. Time - and communication -well that is another consideration.

With many other imports the USA some companies will actually agree or allow a nominated mechanic not necessarily a factory dealer look at and asses the failure. See what you can pre- arrange with you actual selling dealer in the States as there is some qualified mechanics not actualling working for dealer networks.

A lot of companies are tracking their motors so even services are entered into databases which may be made avaliable to the manufacturer. Dealerships often have a clause stating they are not allowed to directly export motors as a protection for dealer territories. This may come back to haunt the selling dealership as they may lose the dealership. Not your problem unless they hold any warranty liability.

Set up is the cause of many failures or at least the cause of minor faults becomming major failures as unless you can get the local dealer to fit and do updates of known problems you may have issues you never should have.

[Wahoo]

Flex
im going throu the same thing ATM, i really cant say anything about other motors, i have a great Mercury Mate/dealer, which has made quite a few enquiries for me,
Yes i can get a Verado (or whatever merc motor) from the states, it MUST be fitted by a merc dealer, and the norm service that it needs along the way, and i will still get my 5yrs warranty with the motor

would i buy new a motor with out warranty.............hell yeh, being a suzi motor, dont think you will have any probs with them


Daz

[MEGA'bite]

at that price you would be silly not to buy it and an extra power head

[littlejim]

i bought mine without a warranty. It was second hand on the second hand boat.
Didn't have any major problems with it.

[Flex]

Wahoo so your getting yourself a merc eh? and an aussie dealer is willing to grant your warranty if they fit it for you? thats pretty good. I'll check with a few suzi dealers here in Aus and see if they will do the same?

I figured for the price savings I could buy any parts that blow up for replacement and still come out ontop financially.

As far as I know and from other info fellow members here have passed on to me there is no duty on engines. so all I have to pay is GST+freight.

Im still unsure on the best way to freight it over. Im waiting on a quote from BAX but im guessing around $1200mark to get on here.

anyone know of any other avenues for freight?

[stevea]

Sounds good, have you got all the import and freight charges,
I got a quote and couldn't believe all the "add on charges" . I came to the conclusion that you would need to bring in more than one. Its almost as cheap to bring in a whole 20ft shipping container.

[Fish_Two]

Hi Flex,
Does your price quoted in the US include your binnacle, guages and props?you may find these are all additional,
GST will be paid on total cost including freight,

Which dealer in the US are you talking with?

[tin can marlin]

I think we are all missing the point buying of local people means people like all of us have jobs and a roof over our head. If we all went and purchsed from the states etc our country would be stuffed. I'am in the BLF union and that is one of our pushs support local workers. Haveing said that i know that it is a big saveing due mainly to our currency being so good at the momet. My advice be careful.

[Flex]

Well i would buy local but who is ripping me off if i pay double what the yanks pay for an outboard? $22k v $8000 is a bloody big difference.

99% of the time I support locals, but the difference in price is insane

[PinHead]

I think we are all missing the point buying of local people means people like all of us have jobs and a roof over our head. If we all went and purchsed from the states etc our country would be stuffed. I'am in the BLF union and that is one of our pushs support local workers. Haveing said that i know that it is a big saveing due mainly to our currency being so good at the momet. My advice be careful.

The actual point is: most people work hard for their money. Why shouldn't they get the best value they can. The internet has made buying on a world wide stage very easy now. Years back (before DVD) I used to buy Laser Discs..retail here for between $150 and $200..I could order a disc on Thursday..have it delivered to my door on Monday for $45 total...and before the movie was even released here.
The same applies to boats. My last 2 boats have been US built..more bang for bucks and equal to or better quality than the locally built product.
Perhaps some businesses should have a good look at their operating procedures if they expect us to buy local. The money is better off in my pocket than in someone elses if I can save it by buying overseas.
In the case of outboards, they are not made here so the profits are going to wholesalers and importers. Perhaps the manufacturers would be better off selling as factory direct and cutting out some of the middle men involved. I know it may not be good for local business but with interest rates, fuel costs and general cost of living now who could blame anyone for getting the best deal they can.

[Luke G]

I would,

I'm going to get a 140 without a warranty from the states as soon as I sell my 115 suzuki.

Cheers

[tin can marlin]

So pin head your saying that the cleaner the mec etc that work in these dealerships should suffer because our dollar is to high. I also think they would be some hidden costs that flex has not found out yet. And all of the pain that it will bring to working austrailans if this gets out of hand. I just look at it from the big picture.

[BM]

Well i would buy local but who is ripping me off if i pay double what the yanks pay for an outboard? $22k v $8000 is a bloody big difference.

99% of the time I support locals, but the difference in price is insane

We seem to be going through this every couple of weeks at present.

Flex, the MANUFACTURER sets the prices for each country. The US has more people and as such more engines are sold so the buying power of US dealers is better.

We sell less engines here so the buy price is higher from the manufacturer.

So if you want to blame anyone blame the manufacturer. The dealers here in Australia make 10-15% margin on a new engine. They buy direct from the manufacturer. Except Suzuki who is middlemanned by The Haines Group.

Cheers

[BaitThrower]

Perhaps the aussie retailers/dealers should pressure the manufacturers for a better price given the currency situation? Probably not much scope for them to do so, but if I was selling them and realized people are buying from overseas, I'd be doing whatever I could to keep my sales as healthy as possible. Just a thought, wrong or right, who cares :)

[cormorant]

Aussie dealer may only get 10-15% but he gets the years of follow up spares and service work and supply of parts on a bigger margin than 10%. He get publicity material and training for his service staff and product junkets for salesman.

I tell ya what I'm happy to import one and give the local dealer a grand cash and cut out the big margin in the middle. Could there be any complaints about that?.

I know in some cases like Haines for Suzuki there is some sort of agency sole import agreement that they paid for so they should be able to make money like any business but it is a global world and if someone is prepared to take the risk of a private import without local warranty then good luck to them as long as they pay all the taxes. I am sick of all the transfer pricing frauds that went on where the manufacturer was the importer and brought them in at $1 to avoid duty sold them full price and then paid an agency fee as an expense to the USA based manufacturer and no tax in Australia. Thankfully those loopholes are closed now sort of.

With the aussie dollar so high if 12 months ago engine prices were fair then they are overpriced now but no discount not even the extended warranty of 7 years is offerred here.

[Fish_Two]

i think some people have not looked completly into it,

Yes, you can get the motors cheaper, but they not come with props,gauges, or any rigging kit, GST is paid on frieght, frieght insurance, excchange rate,and a 3% US marine tax?,, on 2 motors i was only saving $5K, its not worth it,,

these quotes get everybody exicted, but read the fine print ,, also shop around local, you can get a better deal?

Dealers ripping off customers its not the case,, look into it further,
If that was the case , with that much saving there would be all these new motors with no warranty on the second hand market,, but theres not,, WHY??????

[BM]

Aussie dealer may only get 10-15% but he gets the years of follow up spares and service work and supply of parts on a bigger margin than 10%. He get publicity material and training for his service staff and product junkets for salesman.

I see no relevance to the highlighted section??? The dealer will also sell parts to the owner of the grey import engine (maybe).

Sure, there would be a killing to be made if you brought a container or more of engines over but I have mentioned before that if the selling dealer in the US did not remove the serial identification from the engine as soon as the manufacturer is made aware of what is going on the selling dealer will lose his franchise. He simpy cannot go selling into another countries territory. Big no no.

So then you are faced with 2 problems (if looking at it commercially). Who will buy the new engine without warranty from you and who will buy an engine with no serial numbers.

Resale as a secondhand engine will be affected also for the same "no serial number" reasons.

However, the price saving might have many turn a blind eye to that. Who knows.

Watching their local dealer tell them to p$ss off when they want spare parts or servicing for their grey import could be a little frustrating.

Cheers

[Noelm]

I have been very vocal on this for some time now, I think there is savings to be made, but not what it seems at first, I know the old "it's my hard earned money" and all that sort of stuff, and that is partially true, Sounders and all sorts of stuff sound great, and some get away with a one off Import, BUT, a lot do not, if for some reason your Import gets the once over, you will be penalised a lot more than it seems at face value, I guess more than 95% get away with it, but the ones who get checked, are surprised at the costs involved, but by all means, give it a try, you may be lucky, but the next dealer that goes under will not be the last, and please do not post about how sad you are that they have gone guts up, if a Dealer could clear 10 to 15% on a sale, I reckon he would be laughing, it just is not the case, they are NOT ripping you off, they are offering a service, and you need to pay for it, do you think you are ripping off your Employer when you pick up your pay cheque??? it is the same thing, you need to pay, they need to make a profit to be able to Employ your Son or Daughter, so they can buy their own House , Boat or whatever.

[cormorant]

Hi BM

The "dealer not only get 10-15%" comment was 2 fold in saying that the retail dealer may only seem to get a 10-15% retail margin but in fact he also gets a lot of services and a near monopoly on overpriced spares as a trailing commission that add up to more than that in money terms. The second partis the wholesale margin on import is not just ripping cash out of the system but is supplying all those things to the dealer and stocking spare parts etc and paying for the territory.

Not saying dealers are ripping huge $ but the bottom line is that the exact same motor is cheaper in the USA with the exact same dealer and distribution , service and warranty costs. We know the costs are not whole taken in the extra transport costs or tax in Australia , compliance to Australian laws, so somewhere in the chain of goods coming to Australia from the manufactuter there is cream getting taken and not passing on exchange rate changes. These can work both ways.

As for grey motors in bulk - by buying them in USA with a USA initial shipping address and not involving the dealer in the export process and selling it second hand or as a grey import unused motor in Australia there is no control the manufacturer could place or penalise the dealer in the States on as he didn't know the motors were for export. The USA gets away with not supplying warranty as claims would be unlikely and the Aussie dealers get the stream of rigging services and spare parts for the life of the engine.

If someone was bringing in several motors for resale then it is a business so they will be paying 30% tax to the tax man. With other products like electrical equipment the local territory dealers have been quick to notify the tax man when they see these grey imports so be warned and also try to impound products they service if they are not Australian compliant stickered.

Dealers can choose not to service anyones motor or deal with anyone if they wish- a decree from the Australian agent would probably be a restriction of trade and non enforcable - that is their business choice and I know many who won't service or deal with the imported old style yammy copies of 5hp and other bought in and sold as sail for instance.

As for Aussie jobs and competeition you could well argue that because of the high cost of boat motors the industry here has been stiffled. If they were cheaper we woiuld have a bigger recreational fleet, cheaper commercially caught fish, AB's , cheaper oysters, cheaper motors for surf lifesaving, newer motors on VMR and coat guard, cheaper motors for police all meaning there woiuld be a few million a year not going back to USA or Japan but here in Aus to be spent. More motors means more parts , more mechanics and more hourly services.

There is arguements for both sides on this one and the govt has spent 90 years and still hasn't resolved a solution at major levels like wheat let alone on smaller scale imports or exports. We should be able to get competitive prices on both imports and exports as we are a 1st world country I think, well sometimes , well maybe where consumers should have choice but also understand consequences.

[Noelm]

OK, so lets put another "spin" on all this, in the US you can buy a Holden Monaro heaps cheaper than you can in Aus (even though they are no longer avail here), also the Ute is more than 25% cheaper than here, so is the car industry ripping us off, is Holden Ripping us off??? there is a host of "stuff" that goes on in the Import/Export system that the one off person can side step and get away with (sometimes) another example is with frozen fish, they can be caught here, sometimes processed, sometimes just sent whole to another Country, then packaged and frozen, sent back, and sold for a cheaper price than they left our shores for, now how the hell does that work?? it is a very complex issue and has bugger all to do with rip offs.

[sharkymark2]

Flex when you do import the motor can you post the results here so we can all benefit from your experience? I just imported a gps /sounder before our dollar went sky high and paid about $750au for one here that was selling at $1500au. I imported some gear from China and went through a freight forwarder and was amazed at how cheap it was: $us50 a cube. Except when the gear got put into storage because they took down the wrong digits on my abn. Cost me about 40% more over all. There are quite a few charges but on one item they would not amount to much. I have been thinking of doing the same thing as well. Except it would be 2 boats and mtrs and trailer in one 20 foot container. I have wondered what the resale value would be? But as one of the other guys said; when you buy a second hand motor there is no warranty. Best of luck Mark.

[BM]

Theres no guarantee on those trailing commisions Corm so I don't think you could factor that in in full or perhaps at all?

Sharky, US$50 per cube????? Last time I freighted stuff out of Asia it was about $160 a cube (10 yrs ago and I think that was US or it may have been Oz). I'm sure someone posted cube rate recently and it was around the same money.

$50 seems super cheap even as consolidated freight.

Cheers

[Brad Clark]

My issue with all this is, with the aussie dollar so good why aren't the aussie dealers cutting their prices a bit to pass on the savings to the consumer. I will stand corrected if need be but the aussie dealers still must import these motors and with the aussie dollar so good they must be making a huge profit. I think it is about time we hit up the aussie dealers for a price in line with our strong dollar. I am a supporter of buying locally but not at the expense of being ripped off.

Come on aussie importers/dealers drop the prices to remain competitives. Aussie consumers are not dills.

[Steven78]

Our wages and overheads are just too high in this country plus competion is not that high compaired to other markets.
I had a friend that works for a multi National that send brand new outboards to a third world country as a gift so they could get the contract. Our buy price was cheaper then what they could get them for. Support is the biggest thing and thats what you pay for.

[PinHead]

So pin head your saying that the cleaner the mec etc that work in these dealerships should suffer because our dollar is to high. I also think they would be some hidden costs that flex has not found out yet. And all of the pain that it will bring to working austrailans if this gets out of hand. I just look at it from the big picture.

I said nothing about our dollar. here is an example:

Australian Boat..classed as 32' but that is including duck board...2 x Volvo 4.3l Sterndrives...fridge, DVD, TV, Microwave etc..sleeps 4...hot/cold showers etc no positive floatation.
Price without electronics: $220000.

US built boat . 30' not including duck board..2x Volvo 4.3l Sterndrives...same features as above..positive flotation...better warranty..Price with 2 radios and GPS/Sounder combo - $190000.

Now which would you buy???? Would you spend the extra 30k ????

[Outsider1]

My issue with all this is, with the aussie dollar so good why aren't the aussie dealers cutting their prices a bit to pass on the savings to the consumer. I will stand corrected if need be but the aussie dealers still must import these motors and with the aussie dollar so good they must be making a huge profit. I think it is about time we hit up the aussie dealers for a price in line with our strong dollar. I am a supporter of buying locally but not at the expense of being ripped off.

Come on aussie importers/dealers drop the prices to remain competitives. Aussie consumers are not dills.

No, the dealers don't import them, the Australian Distributors do, and then sell to the dealers here in Australian dollars.

Mostly it is that manufacturers that are also the distributors in OZ. Suzuki is the only exception that I am aware of (and as mentioned earlier in this thread) where the John Haines Group are the importers and distributors.

However you have a good point about what might help break the manufacturers' price maintenance stranglehold i.e. some cartel breaking on who can import motors and resell them here with warranties etc.

The issue is currently being driven by the strong Ozzie dollar, and to be fair the manufacturers/distributors do take some of the hit sometimes on the currency front (otherwise the prices would change every month to reflect the currency movements), but they have held onto their prices too long in the current situation, as have the electronics distributors etc etc. The issue, I think, is they are loath to drop prices because it is likely to become one way traffic and they may not be able to raise them later if the exchange rate was to move the other way. Not a valid excuse, but that is the way they think I reckon.

The only solutions to me are either;

1) the federal government acts to break their price cartel (unlikely)

2) on of them breaks ranks and discounts (unlikely)

3) the new cheap manufacturers out of China etc force their hand (possible but it will be a uphill battle)

4) there is a surge in direct imports like those individual imports proposed in this thread (unlikely to hurt them though).

Cheers

Dave

[FNQCairns]

I said nothing about our dollar. here is an example:

Australian Boat..classed as 32' but that is including duck board...2 x Volvo 4.3l Sterndrives...fridge, DVD, TV, Microwave etc..sleeps 4...hot/cold showers etc no positive floatation.
Price without electronics: $220000.

US built boat . 30' not including duck board..2x Volvo 4.3l Sterndrives...same features as above..positive flotation...better warranty..Price with 2 radios and GPS/Sounder combo - $190000.

Now which would you buy???? Would you spend the extra 30k ????

Would depend on the boat if that is the case....what if the US boat is a 2x better seagoing rig? Unless of coarse the US built and the ozi one in this instance are identical.

cheers fnq

[PinHead]

US boat handled a lot better

[PinHead]

fact is..global market now..years back you could only buy Aus. made products regardless of quality...some better and some worse quality in a lot of products now and most manufacturing is offshore now..very little made locally so the idea of protecting Aussie jobs is a bit difficult to maintain when most of our major products are not even made here. eg household items and cars and outboards

[mik01]

applying the monaro argument...

they are made here with an existing mould.
sure there are more volumes in the States, however to produce something cheaper you either source your parts cheaper or you manufacture more efficiently. Lets assume that you can't manufacture the vehicle more efficiently (if you could, I'd guarantee the motor vehicle industry would have worked it out by now).
So the only way to save would be cheaper parts. Lets also assume you buy in bulk and save (say 10%). that means your vehicle, at best, is 10% cheaper.

add in freight, customs, taxes duties etc - that Monaro into the states should be costing them about the same or more than wholesale here. add in the retail margins and the good old US citizens should be paying what we pay for this machine (if not more).

GUARANTEE you that they do not. Thats because their 'market' does not support our price bracket for that type of vehicle. to be competitive, the price has to match the overall market expectation for a 'small' utility vehicle. shows that the vehicle doesn't actually cost that much to produce, market and sell.

We have been conditioned that because we have less people we must pay more - heard this argument a million times however there are no real facts to support it in this global trading environment. that argument only flies in the good old days when it was cheaper to manufacture locally than import from o/s.

if we aren't getting ripped off, then explain to me why manufacturing facilities are being shut down here and set up in third world countries, then the product shipped back here and the rest of the world. Cos its heaps cheaper, and allows the manufacturer to MAXIMISE their profits on an existing customer base.

same market, same population base, higher retail prices, cheaper manufacturing prices

[mik01]

monaro article from a few years back that verifies we pay about 30% more for the same vehicle (well actually not the same - the yanks get the new generation engine for 30% less!!!)

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=9168

i suspect this translates across to the marine industry, among many others...

[Fatenhappy]

Just one point re the warranty thing ... as most would know I was looking very seriously recently at the import thing for a pair of 175 Suzis.

Contrary to my previous belief, when the question was poised point blank to the suppliers in the states, edsmarinesuperstore.com being one, when they export they do not include any warranty ....

When I queried The Haines Group (here in Oz) re their coverage, the wording was "may" or "might" not "would" or "would not"

If it hadn't have been for all the extra conversions costs involved etc for our cat I would have gone ahead.

As an aside .... check out the exchange rate yeaterday Tuesday 94.5 to the USD ... even more reason to go ahead

Cheers
Greg

[Noelm]

I just had an idea (I know that sounds unbelievable) but I reckon we need ANOTHER topic forum, and all Etec V the rest, Cat V Mono, and Import your own, plus Ford V Holden must be posted there, sounds Ok huh! that way if you an want to get into a to and fro for pages and pages, that's where you go, if not, then you stay on the "normal" sections, not saying it is not good and healthy debate (usually) but some things just drag on and on and there will never be a winner EVER!

[FNQCairns]

Of all the products produced here so far not one have I found sold domestically for the same value as sold in the states..tells a story that cuts through all of the industry association type waffle.
Astounds me that the cost of distribution here in Oz is so high as here is the only possible point where the extra overvalue can be slammed onto the product before it hits the shelves, apples to apples.

If I was looking for a monaro I wonder if I could buy one at the docks just before it is loaded to head o/s like europe, one destined to be a Vauxhal (sp) would be good as it is right hand drive, gotta be a 50% saving at a minimum at that dock point or it wouldn't be a product worth raising a finger to export.

cheers fnq

[Noelm]

there is a new Car import compound close to my place, they used to ship them through Sydney, but they now do it from Port Kembla Harbour, might go and have a look and see what they ship out, I know they bring in all sorts of Luxury and European cars.

[mik01]

I just had an idea (I know that sounds unbelievable) but I reckon we need ANOTHER topic forum, and all Etec V the rest, Cat V Mono, and Import your own, plus Ford V Holden must be posted there, sounds Ok huh! that way if you an want to get into a to and fro for pages and pages, that's where you go, if not, then you stay on the "normal" sections, not saying it is not good and healthy debate (usually) but some things just drag on and on and there will never be a winner EVER!

ha! you forgot the argument over inflated grocery prices topic too!!!

[cormorant]

there is a new Car import compound close to my place, they used to ship them through Sydney, but they now do it from Port Kembla Harbour, might go and have a look and see what they ship out, I know they bring in all sorts of Luxury and European cars.


They ship out fresh air!!! Come here full . go home empty.

I'll have a red one and a yellow one please Noel!!! Wirecutters are in the mail and please not too much damage on the nose going throught the boom gate!!

oh what rthe hell get me a 3 tonner cab chassis as well for a tow vehicle

They are closing White Bay up at Sydney I thing so a lot of imports will be coming in via the Gong docks and - how silly is this- then trucked to storage yards in sydney. Seems Sydney doesn't want working boats in the harbour as they wreck the pretty views


I like these threads as everyime they come up I learn something more through others experiences and always interesting to read how it works in different states.

I have imported whole motors and parts second hand but was lucky as a family member had space in a container I could use, inspected the goods upon deliveryin usa , and had all the customs stuff done by a forwarder so I had no hassle. Savings were large but you really had to trust the counterparty as you could just end up with a box of concrete.

[Noelm]

kind of funny thing about the car Imports, my Son in Law is an Audi Tech, their dealership is less than 2K's from the harbour where the cars come in, they get put on a truck, transported right past the Yard, unloaded in Sydney (somewhere) and then orders and so on are checked, they are then loaded up and transported back again.

[FNQCairns]

How long until the USD and the AUD reach parity?? or better??? coming soon IMO, start the footwork now.......

cheers fnq

[mik01]

Flex when you do import the motor can you post the results here so we can all benefit from your experience? I just imported a gps /sounder before our dollar went sky high and paid about $750au for one here that was selling at $1500au. I imported some gear from China and went through a freight forwarder and was amazed at how cheap it was: $us50 a cube. Except when the gear got put into storage because they took down the wrong digits on my abn. Cost me about 40% more over all. There are quite a few charges but on one item they would not amount to much. I have been thinking of doing the same thing as well. Except it would be 2 boats and mtrs and trailer in one 20 foot container. I have wondered what the resale value would be? But as one of the other guys said; when you buy a second hand motor there is no warranty. Best of luck Mark.

anyone who's SERIOUS about buying an outboard from the US, pm me.

[paul251]

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