Unsafe trailer - Now resolved

[Dantren]

I am looking for some advice from some experienced Ausfishers.

I purchased a 5 meter new boat, motor, trailer package from a dealer july 2007.

Boat Manufacturers Specs are:

Hull only = 613 kg
Motor = 189 kg
110L tank of fuel = 80 kg

TOTAL = 882 kg

Trailer Manufacturers Specs are:

GTM = 1180
ATM = 1180
TRAILER MASS = 320

MAX LOAD = 860 kg

I went over the local weighbridge today with the fitted out boat including:

Offshore safety gear
Full tank of fuel
spare tyre
odds & ends

but excluding:

Eskys
Fishing gear

TOTAL LOAD = 1340 kg

That is 160kg over the rated maximum!

So I have been towing this package around for nine months, endangering my life, and the life on those around me - Uninsured!

Am gathering more ammunition before approaching the dealer.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Dan.

[Reel Nauti]

I can't really help with this Dan but it does sound as though you should have had a larger carrying capacity trailer.

All the best with it and please keep us informed.

Dave

[disorderly]

Hate to say it,mate ..
But I think it's more of a moral dilemma than a legal one....what they sold you and you drove away with was legal but commonsense would suggest that a fully loaded and equipped boat would exceed the specified weight limits...
This sometimes happens in response to dealers having to compete for sales by offering the lowest possible price.

I would certainly approach the dealer,though and am curious as to how it turns out.

Scott

[Spaniard_King]

Dan,

Sounds to me as if your heading in the right direction

Might be worth talking to one of the boating bodies.. like BIA or something.. get there angle on it

[FNQCairns]

Not fit for purpose comes to mind, also the illegal registration of a trailer under rated for the job and as advised/sold by a so called industry professionals or experts (whatever that is these days:(), Garry mentions the BIA they are an industry association so their members are the people who make a profit from the industry and pay them money, any individual consumer is as a result the enemy, if you can shame an industry association with the media and lots of individual consumer complaints under the one heading they will be worth a call IMO.

Head toward you nearest government consumer advocate/affairs office they will cut through all of the crap and let you know where you and the law sit.

cheers fnq

[cormorant]

Not fit for purpose under fair trading rules if you told or could reasonably expect the dealer to know you were going to carry a esky and a few rods etc.

If it was a new rig I would talk direct to the manufacturer as they may simply be able to rerate your trailer and have it replated up a couple of hunderd kilos if the springs and axels comply.

As always no advice but it is always to solve these things amicably so approach it positively and directly and don't be smart about it. Document it as you go along. If you hit a brick wall start the process and keep them notified that you are going to follow through. Start with manufacturer and see if it was the recomended trailer, then dealer then industry bode then fair trading then soliciter.

At some point you will have to weigh up the cost of time against the possibly pretty simple process of getting the trailer re-rated.

I know of several cases where unbraked trailers have been provided by manufacturers as they have lied about true finished weights with max rated HP and tank of fuel and in all cases manufacturer supplied the correct braked trailer after a bit of denial , not my problem tooing and frowing. One example involved getting a weights and measures guy to bring his pressure pad scales into the showroom and prove on the spot the package raw from the floor was not right and that it wasn't the owners " added accessoties" but in fact factory options.

Good luck - it could be easy or a right pain


FNQ - you channelling me of something - must have both been typing at the same yime.

[rig_dude]

Does it even have brakes on it? 750kg is the maximum unbraked. It wasn't a Horizon hull by any chance?

[Wahoo]

Dan, dont know if this helps, Easter long weekend i got pulled over by the main roads dep, the guys went over the boat/trailer with a fine tooth combe, measure this measure that, thing i got done for was my number plate moving about as its hooked up with 2 small shackles, i said to him thats how the trailer was when i brought it, he pulled the "rule" book and showed me some section that said it is up to me on how the trailer is set up for my boat, not from the guys i brought it from, the trailer is "MY" responsibility, was going to hit me with a $250 fine, but i got away with only a $60 fine

Daz

[marco]

Garry mentions the BIA they are an industry association so their members are the people who make a profit from the industry and pay them money, any individual consumer is as a result the enemy, if you can shame an industry association with the media and lots of individual consumer complaints under the one heading they will be worth a call IMO.


cheers fnq

fnq , i disagree with your comments about the bia " industry body " . i have found them very interested in the consumers predicament and they are most certainly worth a call , they have provided me with excellent legal advice in the past in relation to a leading industry retailer .

[Bilopete]

Sorry I haven't got anything meaningful to add to the previous comments but you certainly have opened my eyes on a critical issue if and when I buy my next package!

Good luck and please do let us know how it all goes!

Cheers

Bilopete

[gofishin]

Dan,

This was not uncommon ~ 3 - 6 years ago, especially with some dealers looking for that price edge, but I thought that by last year most of the industry had cleaned up their act. Obviously not!

There is no law against this (unless one has been passed recently which I doubt), however the dealer had a “Duty of Care” to you to provide a trailer that was fit for purpose. Seeing that they didn’t, their actions could be considered negligent and hence a court of law could rule against them.

However, I would suggest that you expend all avenues before getting a lawyer involved, as hopefully this will reach a satisfactory outcome. Sorry, I am not a lawyer, however my suggestions would be along these lines:
· Talk to the ACCC & BIA as others have suggested,
· approach the manager/owner first via an arranged meeting, if you can, have someone attend with you as a witness
· take all your notes/calculations and the weighbridge certificate with you (if you didn’t get one it would be $20 bucks well spent)
· state your request/what you want, i.e. a replacement trailer that is fit for purpose. Don’t get abusive, over emotional etc, but obviously its Ok to show you’re upset,
· document all telephone calls/discussions/meetings and dates of events etc,
· if no success from the meeting, follow up with a letter, repeating your request. Don’t make any threats of legal action, just ask them to respond within say 3 weeks(?) of the letter date. Hand deliver the letter to the manager, and make sure another employee sees you there

If nothing comes of it after this, then it is time to decide whether you want to take the legal route. It will cost you, and you may get a replacement trailer, however you may not recoup any of your legal costs.
Good luck mate.

[Bros]

At all costs keep away from lawyers if possible as they never lose cases (they always get paid).

My neighbour went in via the courthouse paid a fee and got a idiot who wouldn't pay $750 damages to his car to pay up.

Do what others said go to the fair trading and they will go for mediation but you have to do some work first and try to get the dealer to replace the trailer and keep records of who you talked to, when and what they said as you will need all of this when push comes to shove. You should follow up your verbal request with a letter even thought they may not reply but the ball is in your court first.

Best of luck but you won't get satisfation quickly. You must also stop using the trailer immediately except to go and get a weighbridge certificate of the bare boat , trailer and motor and keep the original only give the dealer copies.

[Greg P]

Legal issues aside. Like Comorant, I would also check out with the trailer manufacturer what would need to be done to upgrade the trailer rating. I take it that is is a single axle cable brake trailer. It maybe just a matter of replacing the springs or similar.

[cormorant]

Just a note on mediation. Not advice . Mediation is a compromise and is very biased to skilled operators or those that have done it before.

Many mediation ruling must later be followed by judgement and legal undertaking or recovery process by a sherrif if the other party decides he doesn't want to participate any more after agreeing to something - like fix your trailer. Yes you have some ammunition when you do finally go to court but it takes your time and money to follow up the process.

Like lawyers mediators get paid even if no result and can not generally get someone who doesn't want to comply even if it is obvious. Yes it will look better at court if you tried to arrange or participate in mediation but that is just browny points.

Mediation requires both participants to actually want to solve the issue and a mediator present who has the ability to manage the process. These factors don't always co-incide and it is often used as a delaying tactic to wear you down and to try and make you prove your metal to want to continue. Honestly if a person is logical and sensible and you approach them the right way then a mediation process is not required. If they want mediation firstly tell them via your solocitor ( yep get one at that point) that all your requests are in front of him and he can mediate with your solicitor and be laible for your costs if he doesn't come good.

Sorry not a fan of mediation as mediators have no teeth of balls or legal training generally and are used by the courts to divert matters from clogging the courts.

If you have a valid claim , document it , ask , follow up and then get the soliciter and he will advise if mediation is a possible suitable route. Know the value of your claim- go get quote sfor new trailer , upgrade and if the prats don'y play ball tell the soliciter to also claim for loss of use of boat, interest payments etc etc.

A small claim will get brushed off so add to it if they are mongrels to you. Some success has been gained by folks who park out the front of dealerships with their boat and a sign- Illegal rigs sold here!! get soliciters advice on any ramifications of direct actions as it isn't worth the blood nose or deformation suit but can give you that warm in the pants feeling.

Know your ground and stand on it within reason.

If they initially registered the trailer with rig on it they have already screwed up I understand the minute the knowingly saw you hitch it up and tow it out the yard.

Duty of care as a professional.

Is it a new rig and did you have a warranty?

[tin can marlin]

I went to the boat show and there was one dealer there who had quite a few boats there that i think needed brakes and also the boats were to long for the hull which long term will hurt the transom as it is not being surpported. This dealer had 5m open boats on trailers which had atms of 745kg which seem to be convenet. And what it did is make it look like his packages were miles cheaper than everyone elses. I must say what did the bia do with dealer i would guess nothing. I would not be surprised if this dealer is the same one. If it wer me i would take them on at a million miles an hour because you have an obligation to other customers how are going to get into problems as well.

[BM]

As previously mentioned go in politely but determined, the dealer is on the back foot right off the bat so theres no need to make a song and dance about it. It just needs to be rectified.

Also (as mentioned) get an exact costing to have the trailer re-rated. This way you go into a negotiation/dispute with the knowledge of the options available and ahead of such meetings you can formulate scenarios in your head in which you can come to agreement.

I have always operated this way (regardless of which foot the shoe was on) because if you have a negotiation plan "at the ready" you can "win" (in a manner of speaking) by playing your cards right. Having an alternate plan or being able to work around an issue has positives for all concerned.

Alternately you can rant and scream and look like an uneducated fool. Others of like mind will back you whilst the rest of the customers will feel sorry for the dealer who has to tolerate people who can only yell and scream and not communicate.

Approach(manipulate) an issue the right way and its amazing how you can get it to turn out. Do it the wrong way and even if you win the "battle" you can still lose by the dragging heals to get your situation fixed.

If you expect more than required works to be done then I think you will find yourself in error. Theres no punitive action applicable that I can see and the fact is that nothing did occur or go wrong so the only issue is rectifying the non complying load rating of the trailer.

However, your boat with an empty fuel tank weighs 802kg correct? Which is under the max weight. The dealer cannot control the type and weight of objects that you put into the vessel. An argument could be made that the trailer myst be able to at least carry the hull, engine and a full tank of fuel but I don't know if that would hold up as it complied when it left the yard and I suppose caveat emptor applies also.

Do a search as this come up in the past.

And of course investigate all consumer rights approaches too which is part of your pre negotiation/dispute process to once again have the facts and the alternatives.

Please keep us all posted.

Cheers

[Bros]

This is a little off topic but some years ago a fellow I worked with took a local motor cycle dealer to court for damage done to his Harley when the dealer had it for service. He did it all himself and won the case and the dealer paid up the damages.

Now for the good bit. 12 to 18 mths later the dealer approached him asking if he wanted to trade in his Harley on a new one. This set him back as he won a case against him, the dealer's reply was "buisness is buisness" and cases like that can come up from time to time. Anyhow he ended up buying a new Harley from him.

If you have a good case you can take him to court yourself as there is a provision in QLD to tke a person to court for mimimal cost to get a judgement. The complication arises if he won't abide by the court order as it then gets difficult as you have to again apply to have another order siezing property. I think the cost of getting your case to court for judgement is around $80. The two avenues of approach are Small Claims tribunal and Minor Debt but as I said it then gets messy if he won't comply with the court ruling.

Go to the local court house and get the handouts on both of these methods they will also tell you how you should approach the dealer as you must do it correctly.

Best of luck.

[Dantren]

Thanks for the replies.
All good ideas.

Have spoken to Qld Transport inspector & Main roads Director-General about this.
They can't really do much, other than fine me if caught towing this package above the rating of the trailer. Although, they are looking for legislation requirements as to how much weight the dealer should allow for fuel, gear etc. when selecting a trailer.

Yes the package was purchased new, and registered by the dealer.

Am talking to trailer manufacturer & BIA at the moment.
Hopefully they will shed some light on my rights.

Will keep you posted.

Dan.

[FNQCairns]

Thanks for the replies.
All good ideas.

Have spoken to Qld Transport inspector & Main roads Director-General about this.
They can't really do much, other than fine me if caught towing this package above the rating of the trailer. Although, they are looking for legislation requirements as to how much weight the dealer should allow for fuel, gear etc. when selecting a trailer.

Yes the package was purchased new, and registered by the dealer.

Am talking to trailer manufacturer & BIA at the moment.
Hopefully they will shed some light on my rights.

Will keep you posted.

Dan.

Dan don't forget the state consumer affairs option they are the ONLY ones on your side under law, the BIA have the choice to help or not and as a result are under no obligation to you in law toward any outcome, so treat all advice gained with a grain of salt until you talk to an advocate to confirm your true position.

Otherwise you run the risk of a mitigated outcome, something half arsed in comparison to what you could have got in law.

cheers fnq

[Xtreme]

Dantren,

Firstly I am not a lawyer but have lots of experience in commercial negotiations including disputes resolution so I have some knowledge of TPA legislation.

Lots of good advice here, and agree that a positive approach will yeild the best outcome. Just regarding the options and obligations as you build your strategy.

Unless you have a written contract with the dealer that states the package must be compliant in all material respects (& ideally note the trailer must meet ALL regulatory requirements), you may only have the option to pay the difference between the trailer component of the package as new and what the compliant spec trailer is worth. ie - They are not technically in breach of contract and any "duty of care" obligations may only ever be tested after the fact in the case of personal injury or property damage which of course you are wanting to avoid.....

Problem being that you have accepted their offer by buying the package as was documented in their purchase and sales contract.

Just a "head's up" that might give you a reasonable go in position. Even if it costs you a few hunder bucks to make it compliant, you will be legal and technical no worse off dollar wise than you would have been with the right trailer under it in the first place.

Good luck.

[Greg P]

Thanks for the replies.
All good ideas.

Have spoken to Qld Transport inspector & Main roads Director-General about this.
They can't really do much, other than fine me if caught towing this package above the rating of the trailer. Although, they are looking for legislation requirements as to how much weight the dealer should allow for fuel, gear etc. when selecting a trailer.

Yes the package was purchased new, and registered by the dealer.

Am talking to trailer manufacturer & BIA at the moment.
Hopefully they will shed some light on my rights.

Will keep you posted.

Dan.

Dan - the fine is one thing but please also realise that if you have an accident while towing your insurance company will wipe you like a dirty you know what. That would be the main concern for me in trying to get the problem rectified.

If you can provide a solution to the dealer with costs etc planned out then I think 9 out of 10 business are going to work with you towards a solution.

Good luck

Greg

[cormorant]

Dumb question. Why did you put it over the weighbridge. Were you concerned? was it not towing right fully loades? friends note it didn't look right? Traffic officer say it didn't look right but let you off?

Just interested to hear why this started.

It may not be an unsafe trailer but it sure is an illegal one if on a road.

I'm glad to read everyone is giving pretty sensible advice as I know a lot have been through the hoops with these situations.

Be very helpful if at the appropriate time you tell us what the Bia etc said. Does QLD have a boat owners club as the BIA is the industry association so in some ways is starting on the wrong foot representing it's members. A boat owners club would have your interests at heart.

With required safety gear and fuel it is overweight so it is not fit for purpose is my thoughts.

Hope you come up with a decent dealer and manufacturer as at some time in the future if you didn't come forward they could well be in a manslaughter suit against them if a worst case scenario occurred.

Good luck . Keep us advised and don't put names up till it is alkl settled as it serves no purpose but by all means message people with the same rig and see if they have the same issue or had a resolution of the issue.

Can anyone search and find referenc eto the last topic similar to this and I don't mean the formuala 233 one??

[Dantren]

Cormorant - Thanks for the tips. All this started when I had a whinge about the performance and setup of the trailer to a person in the boating industry. He suggested I check the ratings.

Greg - As a business owner myself, I see your point about working together to acheive an amicable solution. Unfortunately, the dealer in question has a long history of finger pointing & shirking responsibility even for small issues. I'm playing this by the book.

Take 2 - Thanks for your proffessional opinion. Their sales contract states"The seller may act as the client's agent in arranging rego of boat & trailer. However the client assumes responsibilty for rego being completed correctly & the appropriateness of the category of rego & indemnifies the seller from all claims arising as a result of incorrect rego."
Ok to say this, but surely I can't sign away my rights as a consumer.
If anything, this clause admits that they often don't pay enough attention to detail when lodging rego.

FNQCairns - I agree. Consumer affairs & Fair trading are the only bodies looking out for the end user. BIA wouldn't talk to me until i'd approached the dealer.

BM - Thanks for your level headed opinion. Could you explain what caveat emptor means. Thanks.

Dan.

[trueblue]

Without making any comment on whether or not this phrase applies to this situation or not, here is the meaning...


Caveat Emptor - latin for "Let the buyer beware..."

It basically means that the buyer should carefully examine the item being bought and determine if it is acceptable for what they want to do with it, and that the buyer should examine all fine print in contracts carefully. Buy at your own risk.

This term used to be part of common law many, many years ago, but has basically been outdated through the introduction of consumer protection rights.

I am not sure if it still aplies or not.

Cheers

Mick

[gone_wishin]

Hi, this is all Deja Vu for me, went through the same thing last year.
I have a Quintrex 530 Spirit with a 115 4 stroke merc all supplied new as a package. Didn't even check the trailer when I picked it up, assumed the dealer knew what he was doing. Anyway 18 months later on long trips the thing would sway and was a bugger to tow.

Did what you did, took it over the weigh bridge with a full tank of fuel and all saftey gear it came in a 1,300kg the trailer was rated at 1,180kg. straight from the weigh bridge to the dealer, dropped it off showed them the certificate and expailned "you sold me a Illeagal rig, unsafe blah blah blah. As per normal the boss was not there he is away will call me on Monday.
To their credit the owner called me back on Monday, appologised and told me the trailer would be replaced, two days later my boat was back with a new 1,450kg trailer under it.

So my suggestion is give the dealer a go mention saftey and duty of care and see what they say, I got a new trailer 18 months after I bought the boat.

[marty_z]

On a sidenote I would suggest everyone spend the $10-15 and put their rig on a weighbridge - I bet plenty of people get a surprise!

I own a 435 Hornet side console with a 50hp 2-stroke, electric on the front and two batteries and my rig comes in at around 750kg - without a full tank of gas, fishing gear, etc. I added brakes to my old trailer a couple of years ago for this reason, and when I bought a new trailer it was also braked - costs more but well worth it.

The other thing people need to check is the rating of their car - my old 6 cylinder was only rated to tow 500kg unbraked and 1,000kg braked. The ratings aren't so much about if your car can move the trailer, but whether it can stop it!

As mentioned in a previous post, the fine is one thing - but the insurance being void because you are over the weight limit is the real concern...and the safety aspect of course!

I recently spoke to a local dealer about this and he said they will always try to sway customers to get the higher rated (and braked) trailer if the dry rig is close to the limit, but ultimately the customer can do as they please. However I feel your case is a little different, as the package on the showroom floor was over the trailer limit anyway.

Interested to hear how you get on?

Marty

[Riv_71]

Dan take note of the advice hear id say 99% of it is good, iv had a few run ins with dodgy traders in the past and come up trumps most of the time, first point have your argument planned before you enter into discussion don’t try and think on your feet and don’t try to change tack half way through.

Its reasonable to expect the trailer to carry a boat, with an engine loaded with fuel as that is what was sold also its also expected that the boat would have any required safety gear and equipment require by law, you would also expect a allowance over this for extra capacity and safety reasons.

Before you try anything check here


http://www.notgoodenough.org

Good Luck
Stu

[bennyboy]

You have got to ask yourself, did you shop around, compare prices and go with the cheapest option? Was there another dealer who quoted you a more expensive price with the correct trailer? 9 times out of 10 if there is more than a few hundred difference between dealers there is a good reason for it. When you bargain for the cheapest price you get what you pay for

[PADDLES]

ooooooooo benny, you're a harsh man. that's a tough call there and unfortunately you are correct for most cases, not necessarily this one of course.

[Pelagic 660]

Dan, I know how you feel I had exzactly the same scenario, only it was at the 2000kg level. As mentioned by others unfortunatley it is not a leagal issue as the boat you towed away was leagal as it had no payload, I went through the dealer who said sorry, but if you would like to upgrade it will cost $x, not happy with this I contacted the manufacturer as I know they also package boats from the factory and he had a great idea that I could have all my gear in the tow vehicle and fuel the boat at the ramp, Not really an option!!!. I then went through Queensland transport to get support and they told me it is a case of buyer beware and it happens more than you think, it is done like this to keep package $ competative. I fixed the prob myself many $ later with anew trailer that suits my requirement. Good luck.
Trevor

[Dantren]

True-Blue - thanks mate. Very true nowadays.

Gone_Whishin - Glad to hear you achieved the best result. Who was your dealer, and what make was the trailer, if you don't mind?

Benny Boy - Point taken mate. I agree. In this case, it was a boat show package & I trusted the dealer to supply the correct trailer. I knew I could order a better one. I actually ended up spending 7K over budget, to get the boat I wanted & wasn't prepared to negotiate extras.
I'm sure you'll agree, Boating = compromise.

Trevor - The most memorable lessons are the most expensive ones, Yes?
I bet you don't regret the dollars when you are at the ramp!

IT'S ONLY MONEY!!!!!!

Dan.

[kingtin]

Pheeew! ::)

Having a new rig on order, I broke out in a cold sweat after reading this last night as I bung heaps of camping equipment into our rigs.

First thing this morning I shot down to the dealers and looked at the trailer plate. The rig weighs 800 kilo and the trailer is rated to 1500 :o Now that's playing safe ;D

kev

[devendiva]

I'm currently in a very similar situation. I bought a new Haines Hunter 600 Classic BMT package in February. I drove 1100 km from Mackay to the Gold Coast to pick it up and in my tired state / haste, I checked the boat thoroughly but didn't take a hell of a lot of notice of the trailer. At some point I had queried the dealer whether I needed a brake controller on my car before I drove down and picked it up and he advised that it was under 2000 kg no only needed manual override brakes.

Recently had it in a local dealership to get several issues with the engine setup corrected (at my expense - original dealer didn't want to know about their stuff ups) and they suggested I get the package weighed.

I did this and with 140 litres of fuel but nothing additional gear from when boat was purchased, it weighed 2240 KG. With a full tank of juice (210 L), it will be close to 2300KG.

So at that weight, it should have electric breakaway brakes. Also, trailer (Dunbier) is only rated to 2000 KG.

The dealer reckons its not their problem. They "estimated" the weight from brochures! They are a brand new dealer in these boats and never got the boat weighed. They also never water tested it hence all the other setup issues I had.

I have spoken to Dunbier and they have advised that they have a table available to dealers to assist with trailer selection. My boat is stock standard and they estimate its total BMT weight for the purpose of trailer selection at abouot 2300 KG. This dealer has ignored their recommendations and selected the next smaller trailer down. It saved them $3500.00.

When I originally bought the boat, I negotiated between three different dealer and they all eventually came to within about $500 of each other. I now know that the other dealers had the right trailer, so I was never comparing apples with apples. Incidentally, the original photos of my boat sent by the dealer had it on a different trailer - with the correct brakes, so he has switched trailers at some point.

The dealer in this case has been wither completely incompetent or downright dishonest - I'm not sure which yet.

I have gone as far as I can trying to negotiate with the dealer and have now passed my complaint to the QLD Office of Fair Trading. This is the first step and if I get no resolution there I will go to small claims court. I noticed talk about lawyers costs etc. in previous posts. Small claims court can deal with disputes up to $10K so is a good option for this as costs are quite low.

We'll see what happens.

[banshee]

I had the same problem a few years back with the boat being about 200kgs to heavy for it's trailer (Didn't discover the problem till about four months after the purchase),took it back with a weighbridge slip and they fixed it straight away free of charge.

[cormorant]

Pheeew! ::)

Having a new rig on order, I broke out in a cold sweat after reading this last night as I bung heaps of camping equipment into our rigs.

First thing this morning I shot down to the dealers and looked at the trailer plate. The rig weighs 800 kilo and the trailer is rated to 1500 :o Now that's playing safe ;D

kev

Check what your recept says for the trailer.

many are on the dealers floor with different trailers to what they get delivered with. Called the ol' bait and switch.

To be blunt rarely would a dealer supply such a overrated trailer when he can get more margin on a cheaper one.

Check the ratings of tyres as well some are being supplied with tyres that shouldn't be on billycarts.

Ask your dealer to do a pre-delivery check on trailer hitch and bearings as I see heaps that come from manufacturers well out of adjustment which chew cheap bearings out in 6 months.

Take a checklist when you pick up your boat and it will take time but tick off all your accessories etc and check they all work. battery correct size . Do an on water test if you can if the dealer is close to a ramp. Well worth the time solve all those irritating little things like no bungs supplied, wrong keys , no shackle, flat battery, no winch handle. Do a search as someone had a thread on what to check when picking up a new boat and everyone contributed good ideas.

[kingtin]

Check what your recept says for the trailer.

many are on the dealers floor with different trailers to what they get delivered with. Called the ol' bait and switch.

To be blunt rarely would a dealer supply such a overrated trailer when he can get more margin on a cheaper one.

Check the ratings of tyres as well some are being supplied with tyres that shouldn't be on billycarts.

Ask your dealer to do a pre-delivery check on trailer hitch and bearings as I see heaps that come from manufacturers well out of adjustment which chew cheap bearings out in 6 months.

Take a checklist when you pick up your boat and it will take time but tick off all your accessories etc and check they all work. battery correct size . Do an on water test if you can if the dealer is close to a ramp. Well worth the time solve all those irritating little things like no bungs supplied, wrong keys , no shackle, flat battery, no winch handle. Do a search as someone had a thread on what to check when picking up a new boat and everyone contributed good ideas.

I trust my dealer implicitly, otherwise I wouldn't be going back there for another rig. It was my rig I checked, as they had rung me to say that it was in, although I can't take delivery yet for couple of weeks. When I questioned why, I was told that it needed on water tests, trailer checking/adjusting, electrics fitting and various other items. As I say, despite others' experiences, I have never been able to fault them, and would rather wait a while longer knowing that they will do all the checks necessary.

I really don't know though, why a trailer would be rated so high for such a lighter load. I'm guessing that because it's a package, the trailer included is to accommodate the 519's actual length of 5.45 and width of 2.33. The next trailer model down is rated at 1180kg and although that would suffice load-wise, it isn't lengthy enough for the 519.

I suppose that it's a case of me paying for something I don't need (like all those features on cameras), as opposed to paying for something that doesn't meet my needs. When you package something, whether it's boats, cameras or whatever, you know that you can't please everybody. The sellers of cameras have it sussed, they know they can sell you (at their price) cameras with bells and whistles that you'll never use, so why try ripping you off by selling you something that is overpriced yet under spec'd? If a dealer can get you to pay for something you won't use, then why would they need to get you to pay for something that you can't use, as in under-rated trailers? Bad business sense to my way of thinking because in keeping down the price, they may be pinching a sale from another yard that is higher priced, but they're also keeping down the profit, whilst at the same time having to deal with dissatisfied customers.

kev

[mromanis]

[QUOTE=
BM - Thanks for your level headed opinion. Could you explain what caveat emptor means. Thanks.

Dan.[/QUOTE]

Dan,
Caveat Emptor is old world Latin and translates as "Buyer beware". It's a catch cry for all buyers to treat all sellers as shonk's until proven otherwise.

[cormorant]

Hi kingtin

Mate you sound like you have a great dealer and glad to hear they exist and even better one who can communicate.

He sounds like he is doing the right thing buy you as many of the cheap trailers only save a couple of hundred dollars but are not constructed nearly as well or as heavily and are seemingly designed to fit a price point not quality in a lot of cases. There is some really cheap imported ones coming in and yeah they are a trailer but I don't see them lasting long in salt water but they will get enough buyers.

[FNQCairns]

Hi kingtin

Mate you sound like you have a great dealer and glad to hear they exist and even better one who can communicate.

He sounds like he is doing the right thing buy you as many of the cheap trailers only save a couple of hundred dollars but are not constructed nearly as well or as heavily and are seemingly designed to fit a price point not quality in a lot of cases. There is some really cheap imported ones coming in and yeah they are a trailer but I don't see them lasting long in salt water but they will get enough buyers.

Agree, it's a very good thing you will end up with. Even a 1/3 overating is not that much, a x2 rating would be getting a little silly.

I built myself a trailer and overbuilt it, it's great insurance and a confidence builder to know I could with an extra couple of wheels rate it at 2000 from the single 1500 it is now and tows a 1100 boat full trim, boats sitting on trailers with 5 - 10% residual are just scary IMO although this depends on if it is a true rating or more a marketed one.

Also some trailers I have noticed are to all intents identical with just the rating being the difference, this can amount to nothing much more than just the spring weight fitted and the number punched into the plaque.

cheers fnq

[Stuart]

Another point is they are way over priced for what they are built from and how they are built. The gal dipping isnt worth a crumpet these days either.

Stu

[kingtin]

Hi kingtin

Mate you sound like you have a great dealer and glad to hear they exist and even better one who can communicate.



And there you have it mate, in one. It's all about communication. (I think?) :-/ :-X ;D

I'm not minimizing in any way, some of the real problems that Ausfishers have encountered from shonky dealers, but many of the problems that arise are due to a breakdown in communication, in that the client isn't made clearly aware of what they are getting into by the dealer, or the dealer isn't made clearly aware of what the client's needs are.

The fact that some posts here (in the past) referring to certain yards in a derogatory manner, are answered by other folk saying how it was a pleasure to deal with those yards, means that something must be awry. It happens all the time. Some folk were saying how they were glad to see the back of Sundown, whilst others were saying how sad they were to see 'em go as they always had great service. The same has been said for other yards so how is it that some of us are satisfied and others are not? Do we just cop lucky with the right salesman or do we communicate with each other more effectively? I'm buggered if I can figure out how there is such disparity in one persons dealings with a yard compared to anothers?

kev

[gone_wishin]

True-Blue - thanks mate. Very true nowadays.

Gone_Whishin - Glad to hear you achieved the best result. Who was your dealer, and what make was the trailer, if you don't mind?

Benny Boy - Point taken mate. I agree. In this case, it was a boat show package & I trusted the dealer to supply the correct trailer. I knew I could order a better one. I actually ended up spending 7K over budget, to get the boat I wanted & wasn't prepared to negotiate extras.
I'm sure you'll agree, Boating = compromise.

Trevor - The most memorable lessons are the most expensive ones, Yes?
I bet you don't regret the dollars when you are at the ramp!

IT'S ONLY MONEY!!!!!!

Dan.

The dealer was TR Marine the trailer is a Dunbier.

[Fido]

I saw your thread when it first started. I have just spent the last two years going through the legal process of proceedings against a boat builder for supplying me a defective plate boat and a trailer that was not suitable. ie a trailer to suit a mass all up of 2000kg but the resultant package weighed 2400 kg. Believe me I spent my life working in the legal area. You are dealing in relation to the trailer area in a very grey area. In my case I always believed that the defendant wouldn't capitulate until he was on the steps of the court. And he did, he capitulated rather than suffer a ruined reputation and have all trailers built by him inspected by the authorities. You see they hide behing the fact that when the boat / tlr package leaves the premises it is under 2000 kg. But when you put petrol and batteries on and even a motor it exceeds the 2000kg and it should have breakaway brakes. They don't care whether they kill someone or etc. They just say it was legal when it left. That's where consumer affairs and a duty of care comes in.

The problem is that the authorities allow self regulation under 4500 kg and only get involved for over4500kg which is generally trucks. Therefore you are left with fair trading etc.

In my case I knew I would win if it went to court but you need to be aware the cost can exceed the damages and you only get party cost as per schedule. You need to go to mediation before court. It is expected. More cost.

During all of this I spoke with the National Transport Safety Section in Canberra ACT. They know what is going on in the big world but cannot get teeth into the matter until there is a court decison ruling against a boat dealer or trailer manufacturer. Once that happens a precedent will have been set and every person involved in the business and elsewhere will become very concerned as to their liability. There is nerousness out there at the moment and it is inevitable something serious will happen and it will come against the seller/ dealer.

In your case the other party could and have simply played the game of ignoring / dragging you out at your cost to create frustration and hardship. No matter what happens you will get no more that half of any legal costs.

The best assistance is any consumer watchdog or media outlet who love making examples of your situation.

In my case I wouldn't let it go away out of principal. My persistance paid off and the result was pleasing. You cannot teach a person a lesson but they can learn by their mistakes. To see the other party having to pay damages is satisfying..

[Dantren]

Thanks Fido,

Hopefully there are some dealers reading this thread.

You're right, the authorities aren't interested in any problems - until they become problems for them.

I'm still talking to my dealer at the moment - yet to hear "sorry"
Negotiations have a way to go yet.

I would like to see Marine Safety Queensland(& other Aus bodies) bring out a "BEST PRACTICE GUIDELINES" which contains a checklist of all important issues to consider when any vessel changes ownership.

Possibly something like a "FORM 30C" on the front of property contracts.

Maybe this could reduce the number of boating accidents & fatalities which have occured recently.

I just want to see all boat owners aware of this lesson i've experienced.

Will keep you informed as negotiations progress.

Dan.

[BM]

Damages can only be due when damages are warranted. If no incident/accident or issue has resulted I see it very difficult to claim damages because "the incident upset you".

Dantren, focus on having the trailer brought up to the spec to handle the load and be satisfied there.

Yep, you might have been wronged but cast that aside in favour of having your trailer sorted for you at no cost.

Walk away a tad jilted, but wiser for next time around. This is life....

Cheers

[disorderly]

I'm currently in a very similar situation. I bought a new Haines Hunter 600 Classic BMT package in February. I drove 1100 km from Mackay to the Gold Coast to pick it up .

Recently had it in a local dealership to get several issues with the engine setup corrected (at my expense - original dealer didn't want to know about their stuff ups)


When I originally bought the boat, I negotiated between three different dealer and they all eventually came to within about $500 of each other.




you mean ....you forked out the dough for a brand new 6m boat but because your local dealer in Mackay was 500 bucks dearer you travelled 1100km and bought out of Town.....http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/undecided.gif.

I think there is a pretty good lesson in your tale of woe.http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/wink.gif

[sea raider]

you mean ....you forked out the dough for a brand new 6m boat but because your local dealer in Mackay was 500 bucks dearer you travelled 1100km and bought out of Town.....http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/undecided.gif.

I think there is a pretty good lesson in your tale of woe.http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/wink.gif


I agree.

Apart from that dealership sponsoring some organisation that either yourself or your family may benefit from, their employees build houses, shop at local stores, play sport locally, the list is endless.

For a $500 saving, you deserve everything you got.

[BM]

Easy on! Sure he penny pinched but it hardly warrants being told "you deserve your troubles"

[FNQCairns]

I too go out of my way to reward a good deal so agree with BM.

cheers fnq

[disorderly]

I too go out of my way to reward a good deal so agree with BM.

cheers fnq

You are not Robinson Crusoe there,Scott,we all like a good deal.http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/smiley.gif
However for such a small price disparity (which could easily be just the freight fee that the dealer would pay to truck the boat from Brisbane),would you really expect the local dealer(who missed on the sale) to go out of his way to sort out the initial setup problems (not of his making) for free as well as be bothered helping because the guy got ripped of by being supplied with and illegal, underrated trailer.http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/rolleyes.gif

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Mackay dealer had a little chuckle to himself just thinking of devendiva trying unsuccessfully to problem solve with a dealer 1100 km's away when he himself would have provided the correct trailer in the first place and corrected any initial setup problems.

I hope he gets it sorted out and the dealer is held accountable......though I still think there is a lesson in there for all of ushttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/wink.gif.

IMO when looking at a BMT package, a "good deal" involves more than just the initial purchase price.

Scott

[devendiva]

No I didn't drive 1100km to save $500. It cost me more than that in car fuel! The Mackay dealer only became a Haines Hunter dealer two days after I'd paid the inital deposit to the Brisbane dealer. I could have forgone the deposit and by the amount I spent on fuel towing it back, still been in front by buying it in Mackay. But I am a man of my word (which is more than I can say for the dealer) and I had accepted the deal so that was that.

I would always buy locally normally but there was NO Mackay dealer at all. The closest was Townsville and they were about $15K out of the game.

There are plenty of more details I could give but I won't pending my upcoming court hearing, but don't judge before you know all the facts.

[disorderly]

Ok, sorry bout that,bloke...I saw on the Haines website there was a Mackay dealer,but didn't realize that it was so recent....bugga that was bad timing wasn't it....http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/sad.gif
Man, I hope your dealer gets his arse kicked and you can get what you actually paid for.I hate to think he's doing this to other customers still..http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/angry.gif
Good luck with it then...let us know the outcome.http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/smiley.gif

Scott

[devendiva]

BTW, the BMT setups "on paper" were almost identical. I was supplied photos of the boat on a trailer and it was on a different one when I picked it up. In the end, even without my current trailer issues, the boat I bought was not the cheapest, it was the best package for what I was after. eg. The others had carpet lined cabins (which cost more) and this one didn't. I figured it would be easier to keep clean.

The local dealer is fine as I explained the situation with paying the deposit and he appreciates that I honoured the comitment I had given. I did the honourable thing here, I shopped around, got the best deal, accepted it in good faith, and got screwed.

BTW, it has been a completely different dealer assisting with engine setups etc. The local ETec dealer sells TABs and was never involved in the original negotations. They have been more than happy to assist with warranty issues with the engine. As for setup changes, I have been more than happy to pay them for the work. My beef is with the dealer, not HH or Evinrude.

[devendiva]

No worries disorderly. I'll give everyone all the details and the dealer's name once it has been sorted.

But yes, I have learned a huge lesson from this. Several really. Make sure EVERYTHING is in writing - do not assume anything.

And I will never buy anything of this nature not locally again. If I had my time again, I wouldn't have bought the HH at all before there was a Mackay dealer, I would choose a brand that was sold here regardless of whether it was my first choice or not.

[PinHead]

No I didn't drive 1100km to save $500. It cost me more than that in car fuel! The Mackay dealer only became a Haines Hunter dealer two days after I'd paid the inital deposit to the Brisbane dealer. I could have forgone the deposit and by the amount I spent on fuel towing it back, still been in front by buying it in Mackay. But I am a man of my word (which is more than I can say for the dealer) and I had accepted the deal so that was that.

I would always buy locally normally but there was NO Mackay dealer at all. The closest was Townsville and they were about $15K out of the game.

There are plenty of more details I could give but I won't pending my upcoming court hearing, but don't judge before you know all the facts.

deposits are refundable.

[cormorant]

Trailer issue fixed or still not solved? How did you go?

[Mindi]

Well we need to know the Boat and Motor type dont we..?

This is a completely unsurprising thread. The only surprise is the posting that claims that dealers have mostly "cleaned up their act".. I have been window shopping a new boat for 6 months SE QLD and a common approach is the cheapest trailer the dealer can get his hands on and frequently undersized, or with a GVM barely covering the needs. Some deals are not like this and include appropriate trailers but unfortunately these good dealers suffer industry reputation damage from the bad eggs.
The QLD Transport guys who fined one poster for a floppy numberplate (mean trick guys..shame..!) are right, the buyer/owner has to do the research and acquire the appropriate trailer..you just have to do that arithmetic before the purchase not after. What you cant see on bad trailers is poor galv thickness, cheap bearings, cheap springs etc....you have to do your own research and pay for quality.
If you read these threads it is pretty easy to identify mfrs of quality trailers...Mackay,Dunbier,Belco,Redco/Tinka, and others you may care to add to my list...and then get one adequately sized and with decent tyres.

Got off the point but getting the right trailer is a problem. I have no axe to grind but am getting a Redco RE160MO for a 5.0M plate centre console.

[devendiva]

No, no resolution with the trailer yet. Office of fair trading contacted me today about my complaint. So we'll see how their negotiation skills go.

[Mindi]

The industry is very unsophisticated. Good businesses who sell and support professionally on the same block as cowboys pushing out packages on $1700 trailers. Compared to the new vehicle motor trade the boat business is run like a big cottage industry.
The inevitable outcome is that you either buy from the top of the pile where quality is obvious or you have to do all the research on hull motor and trailer before you buy. Its not hard to buy an excellent quintrex on a self loading dunbier trailer which fits correctly with a good motor...properly set up...it just costs a bomb.

[Dantren]

Wouldn't put too much faith in the office of fair trading.
I made an email enquiry a month ago.
No response yet, even after follow up calls!

[Kleyny]

Wouldn't put too much faith in the office of fair trading.
I made an email enquiry a month ago.
No response yet, even after follow up calls!

Try writing a letter minister or similar of the fair trading.
I rgink you will find that the government has a policy once a complaint has been lodged soemone should get in contact with you within 10 working days.
Wether it be to tell you nothing can be done or they are looking into it.

neil

[Dantren]

I seem to have resolved my trailer issue.
Thanks for everyone's input.

As the original post explains, the dealers' setup of the trailer (capacity, roller & skid locations) was far from my "Satisfaction".

On delivery of the new boat, when questioned about these obvious flaws, the dealers response was " Oh - Dunbier have come in & setup this trailer especially"

This is one of many examples of blatant lies told by Satisfaction.

This is not slander - this is the verified truth!

I wrote a polite but firm letter to them, with my weighbridge certificate enclosed.
The certificate came in at 1340 Kg - consisting of safety gear & full tank of fuel.
The trailer ATM was 1180 Kg.

The dealer replied in writing, offering an upgrade to 1450 Kg at no cost. This consists of changing the wheels from 13" to 14". Or, an upgrade to 1650 Kg with new wheels, axle etc.... But they wanted to charge me $330 for this.

Not wanting to give them another dollar, I settled for the 1450 Kg.

I delivered the boat & trailer to the manufacturer, who did the upgrade.
I was a bit sceptical as to how independant their opinions would be.
After a brief chat with them, it became clear how often this sort of thing does happen.

Of course, the new trailers are delivered as ordered, and the dealers take responsibilty for selection and setup.

Dunbier was always very responsive to my emails, & the technician who did the work had plenty of time for me.

I've since done some towing & boating - What a difference!!

She now behaves very well under tow, and slips on & off the trailer with ease.

So the lesson is - buyer beware and lies will come back to bite you.

Happy Boating.

Dan.

[lethal098]

dan, good to see you got the desired result in the end and thanks for keeping us up to date. cheers

[cormorant]

Dunbier and good trailer makers could do a lot of good by attending and promoting their product at shows and telling people what the need legally and for a useful tow. Their website could be updated so dealers can't as easilly stick under rated trailers under peoples boats. Good if you could suggest that to them as it is there business and their reputation when trailers tow badly etc.

Glad you got a result .

Good on you