Using 10% ethanol fuel in outboards

[Bilopete]

I have always used unleaded petrol when running my evinrude 35hp outboard but I was wondering if it is possible to use the 10% ethanol fuel blend in outboards?

Cheers

BiloPete

[wiz]

I would advise against using it
It attracts moisture
It also does funny things to gaskets and rubber

Cheers

[Luc]

I'd check with a reputable evinrude dealer.

One problem could be whether your engine has any plastic/rubber/neoprene components that are affected by ethanol.

Another is the absorption of water by the ethanol.

Most outboard engine mankers do not recomend the use of alcohol blends.

Luc

[PinHead]

Mercury EFI 2 stroke..no problems at all in using it according to the manual BUT..they do state that you have to be careful as to what the fuel tank and lines are made of.

[Bilopete]

Thanks everyone. For the time being I will stay away from the ethanol fuel..I only have a 22L tank so the difference in cost is only a few bucks at the most.

[Angla]

I have been warned to never use it, from a fuel station operator.

Chris

[4x4frog]

My only concern would be in older carbied engines as the air-fuel ratio changes with ethenol blends. Have had trouble with older carbied cars and E10, steer clear of it for safety's sake.
Just my opinion and experience though, nothing more

[Kevaclone]

I have been warned to never use it, from a fuel station operator.

Chris

Most fuel stations operators haven't got a clue most of the time, so just because he says so doesn't make it so

as for Ethanol
the one major problem for boaties is water
ethanol will dissolve in water, this will draw the ethanol out of the petrol and down to the bottom of the tank

and I have had fuel lines on my latest boat that have turned to jelly and seperated internally, I have been told that this is the result of ethanol being used by the previous owner

Kev

[marco]

Most fuel stations operators haven't got a clue most of the time, so just because he says so doesn't make it so

as for Ethanol
the one major problem for boaties is water
ethanol will dissolve in water, this will draw the ethanol out of the petrol and down to the bottom of the tank

and I have had fuel lines on my latest boat that have turned to jelly and seperated internally, I have been told that this is the result of ethanol being used by the previous owner

Kev


kev ,
a bit harsh on the servo people hey , the are usually advised from the parent fuel company which in most cases they do know what they are talking about and the main advice from them is do not use e10 in a marine environment .

you are wrong about ethanol dissolving in water , it attracts and bonds with the water which then makes the density heavier than petrol and then it separates from the petrol and goes to the bottom of the tank which is where the fuel pickup is .

mark

[bigbrian47]

have a 98 model 90hp two str johnson
been running bp ethanol in it since new (as the manual say's you can)
so far so good
cheers brian

[cormorant]

Don't use ethanol for any marine use is the simple answer. Motor manufactures in the last couple of years on some models say it is allowable but are doing it because of star style ratings. Ethanol doesn't give you full HP rating of your motor, your motor may labor if not propped right, water absorbtion, unknown affects with 2 stroke oils, dissolving , dislodging gum in fuel system, sending other fuel to gel, melting fibreglass, and fibreglass tanks, leaching plastic from older plastic tanks, dissolving some tank liners on older boats and filters, gasket cements. short staorage life, variable ron due evaporation of light volatiles, Corrosion on fuel components and injectors. Newer motors ECU can't necessarilly adjust enough to kno wit is ethanol fuel and fuel companies , stations are so pathetic with quality a bad batch could have you running very very lean. ouch.

Not worth the discount, not worth the loss of HP, not recommended by fuel companies, not worth the reliability problem- simple I wouldn't consider using it.

Avoid avoid avoid.

I have seen simple things like fuel breaather hull fittings dissolve due to it- unless you can guarantee every piece of factory equipment was ethanol designed and maintained to that standard - and you can't - don't use it as it will be a little thing that brings you unstuck. Doesn't have to disolve a fuel pipe to cause disaster just softening it will possible cause a clamp to leak. Yes I have run alcohol fuels in race motors etc but they were all designed for it from scratch along with all the handelling equipment and fuel delivery system.

Ask you boat engine manufacturer what extra maintainance they expect if you run ethanol and on the surface it seems like nothing but I can tell you some components will not last as long.

But after all that out normal fuel ain't too crash hot and already contains elements like ethanol but adding in the extra 10% is not good. Maybe in 5 yaers when a few more issues have been solved and a propper fuel standard

[Outsider1]

There is a feature article on fuel in this month's Fisherman and Boatowner mag;

Understanding The Great Fuel Dilemma

One of its key points is avoid E10 at all costs for the reasons cormorant and others have stated.

Even if the manufacturer says their engine is OK, they can't be sure about the fuel tanks, fuel lines etc. Ethanol does not mix with petrol properly, easily separates and it attracts and absorbs water. Ethanol has a different octane rating to the fuel it is mixed with and when it separates it is heavier and goes to the bottom of your tank.

An engine running on the wrong quality fuel will carbon up quickly and also risks fuel detonating rather than burning.

I will try to summarise the other findings from the article once I have re-read it a few times. But one point straight from one of the fuel company chemists is that modern unleaded starts to deteriorate in as little as 3 weeks. Why?, well they used to use lead to keep fuel quality stable and maintain the Octane rating (and lubricate valves etc). When lead was banned they then used Sulphur. In 2002 the regulations were changed again (under pressure from the greens) and they have had to reduce/eliminate the use of Sulphur. The aromatics they now use are very volatile and will "evaporate" quickly, thus deteriorating the fuel quality.

Cheers

Dave

[CreelReaper]

https://www.yamaha-motor.com.au/ssl/images/spacer.gifhttps://www.yamaha-motor.com.au/ssl/images/spacer.gifhttps://www.yamaha-motor.com.au/ssl/images/shim.gifhttps://www.yamaha-motor.com.au/ssl/images/shim.gifhttps://www.yamaha-motor.com.au/ssl/images/spacer.gifhttps://www.yamaha-motor.com.au/ssl/images/spacer.gifStraight off the pages of the yamaha website. I would reckon that most other outboard brands would be the same.

ETHANOL BLENDED FUELS


OUTBOARDS

Q. Are Yamaha outboards motors, 4 stroke and 2 stroke, designed to operate on Ethanol Blended Fuels.https://www.yamaha-motor.com.au/ssl/images/spacer.gifhttps://www.yamaha-motor.com.au/ssl/images/spacer.gif No, All current and previous models are NOT designed for Ethanol Blended Fuels at any percentage. (ie. E5, 5% and E10, 10%).

If Ethanol Blended Fuels are used you may experience driveability and running problems, fuel component deterioration and damage due to moisture.

[FNQCairns]

Fleet car we use is Ok to fill with ethanol says the manufacturer, although for some reason the fleet operators have outlawed us filling with it....

Big Brian you sure? buy a lotto ticket if you have seen no problem over 10 years of ethanol use, you sure you don't mean 3 years Howard was the one who pushed it on us to help fill his brothers bank account. Thought Caltex was the first with 10% at least only a few ears ago.

cheers fnq

[Hamish73]

definately not advisable in a 2t premix enviroment. has a mate that learnt this the hard way on a dirtbike. Check with you 2 stroke oil manufacturer to see if the oil is compatible with ethanol


then there is all the moisture issues. Even with a 160litre tank, I still wont take the risk. PITA BP at manly installed E10 just to make all the boaties buy 95 I reckon

[Kevaclone]

kev ,
a bit harsh on the servo people hey , the are usually advised from the parent fuel company which in most cases they do know what they are talking about and the main advice from them is do not use e10 in a marine environment .

Been in the fuel industry for almost 20 years and believe me servo operators are only advised on merchandising and how to run the business to comply with company standards, not many know much about the products they sell




you are wrong about ethanol dissolving in water , it attracts and bonds with the water which then makes the density heavier than petrol and then it separates from the petrol and goes to the bottom of the tank which is where the fuel pickup is .

mark

Yes bonds( I had a mental block at the time, very early morning:-[ ) the result is seperation of the ethanol to the bottom of the tank


Kev

[marco]

Been in the fuel industry for almost 20 years and believe me servo operators are only advised on merchandising and how to run the business to comply with company standards, not many know much about the products they sell



Kev
kev i have also been in the game a long time and i still think your being a bit harsh on them , there are many that do actually have a idea on what they sell and especially to do with e10 as there have been so many problems with it . and in the context of this thread you will find that the fuel companies have actually advised the servo staff that e10 is not advisable for marine application .
being in the game for that long you would know that the servo staff actually dip there own tanks and you would also know how they were trained regarding the importance of water pasting the e10 tanks in particular ? . that is for a reason .

[Dodgy_Back]

I thinks it's best to consult the manufacturer of your motor that way you will get the absolute truth.

Non of this "I wouldnt use it because of blah blah blah"

There is a lot of emotion regarding ethanol in fuel and alot of people pushing thier own view point.
I'm sure Nuggett did a big segment of this issue on his show and if I remember right ,most manufacturers did not have much of an issue with ethanol.

I had a look at the Merc web site yesterday and there was a section on ethanol in fuel and they said up to 10%was fine in thier motors (obviously the new ones)

If I had to use ethanol I would but as I run my motor on premium .Not much of an issue with me unless they put ethanol in premium, and then I would still use it ,Cause MERC SAYS i CAN.

mICK

[marco]

I thinks it's best to consult the manufacturer of your motor that way you will get the absolute truth.

Non of this "I wouldnt use it because of blah blah blah"

There is a lot of emotion regarding ethanol in fuel and alot of people pushing thier own view point.
I'm sure Nuggett did a big segment of this issue on his show and if I remember right ,most manufacturers did not have much of an issue with ethanol.

I had a look at the Merc web site yesterday and there was a section on ethanol in fuel and they said up to 10%was fine in thier motors (obviously the new ones)

If I had to use ethanol I would but as I run my motor on premium .Not much of an issue with me unless they put ethanol in premium, and then I would still use it ,Cause MERC SAYS i CAN.

mICK

mick , the reason i go on or as you say blah blah blah is that there is cases where running e10 in boats has caused probelms with seperation of the fuel and the ethanol and one very bad case on a boat i know of at somerset dam .

most motors are ok running on e10 and in fact there are some benifits to it ,but it is the storage of it that can create problems .
the merc web site does say 10% is ok but what about lets say 60% ethanol / 40% water when it sucks that up off the bottom of the tank , do you think the merc can handle that ?

i'm sure a etec could though ;D


if your going to empty your tank when done each time in the boat then sure it maybe ok assuming the rubbers etc are ok

also there is premium with 10% ethanol in seq , two brands name are elite98 and egen98 , give them a go in your car , i hear good things about it .

[Wahoo]

This should pretty much answer all of your questions on Ethanol.

Mercury Marine remains very active in developing a thorough understanding of important issues and environments in which our products must operate. Mercury’s engineers work constantly to expand our understanding of fuel technologies and their interactions with all Mercury products to ensure they perform properly and reliably. Mercury personnel work in concert with industry groups, such as the National Marine Manufacturers Association (NMMA), to offer input into the overall processes by which many decisions are made regarding fuel regulations and energy policies so future problems are minimized and future developments are beneficial to those who utilize our products.

Included below is a list of questions and answers that address typical concerns of consumers.

Please feel free to contact any Mercury Marine field representative with questions, or contact us at public.relations@mercmarine.com. Mercury will do its best to help find answers, whether you’re seeking general information or wishing to discuss legal proposals, or if you’re seeking information regarding ethanol-tolerant materials.

1. What are ethanol and ethanol-blended fuels?
Ethanol for fuel is highly refined beverage (grain) alcohol, approximately 200 proof, that can be produced from natural products such as corn, sugar cane and wheat. New technology will allow ethanol to be made from “cellulosic” feedstocks including corn stalks, grain straw, paper, pulp, wood chips, municipal waste, switchgrass and other sources. Ethanol used for fuel has been “denatured,” or rendered unsafe to drink by the addition of a hydrocarbon (usually gasoline). The ethanol-blended fuel E-10 refers to fuel that contains 10 percent ethanol and 90 percent gasoline. Similarly, E-85 refers to fuel that contains 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent gasoline. E-85 is intended only for engines specially designed to accept high-ethanol content fuel blends, such as the Flexible Fuel Vehicles (FFV) made by some car companies.

2. How is ethanol made?
In the U.S., ethanol is typically produced by removing the starch or sugar portion of corn and fermenting it. The fermented starch is then distilled into alcohol. Excess water is removed, resulting in very pure – 200 proof – ethyl alcohol (ethanol).
In some parts of the world, ethanol is made from a variety of raw materials. For example, sugar cane is used to produce ethanol in Brazil, while sugar beets and wheat straw are commonly used in Europe.
3. What are the characteristics of ethanol?
Ethanol is an oxygenated hydrocarbon compound that has a high octane rating and therefore is useful in increasing the octane level of unleaded gasoline. The EPA, the agency responsible for setting some of the requirements for all gasoline used in the U.S., has allowed the use of ethanol in gasoline at levels up to 10 percent as an octane enhancer and to provide beneficial clean-burning combustion characteristics that help improve some emissions.
Ethanol is hygroscopic (it has an attraction for water) and will more readily mix with water than with gasoline. It has different solvency behaviors than does gasoline, which allows it to loosen rust and debris that might lay undisturbed in fuel systems. And it can more readily remove plasticizers and resins from certain plastic materials that might not be affected by gasoline alone. Loose debris will plug filters and can interfere with engine operation. Additionally, ethanol is corrosive to some metals, especially in combination with water. Although gasoline does not conduct electricity well, ethanol has an appreciable capability to conduct electricity and therefore can promote galvanic corrosion.
4. What is MTBE and why is it being replaced?
MTBE is the chemical shorthand description for methyl tertiary-butyl ether. MTBE is another oxygenated hydrocarbon compound that has a high octane rating. It was initially a preferred compound widely used for octane enhancement as a replacement for leaded compounds in gasoline. When the EPA developed regulations requiring oxygenated gasoline to help reduce smog in several areas of the country, MTBE was the most commonly used compound to supply the additional oxygen, while ethanol was chosen for this purpose in the Midwest region of the country. Recently, most states have banned the use of MTBE because of its tendency to work its way into ground water systems, usually from leaks and spills, as an undesirable contaminant. Ethanol is being used as a replacement.

5. Does ethanol affect horsepower or fuel-efficiency?
Ethanol has a heating value of 76,000 BTU per gallon, which is approximately 30 percent less than gasoline’s heating value (which is approximately 109,000 to 119,000 BTU/gal). The result is E-10 gasoline which should yield slightly lower mileage – a decrease of approximately 3 percent. Fuels containing higher levels of ethanol will have a corresponding reduction in mileage. For example, E85 fuels produce mileage approximately 30 percent less than gasoline.
The octane rating of pure ethanol (200 proof) is about 100 and is therefore useful in elevating the octane value of gasoline. In E-10 blends the presence of ethanol provides about 2.5 to 3 percent of the overall octane rating. The effect on engine horsepower is determined by the octane result of the blended fuel. Care should be taken to select fuels having the octane rating recommended for the engine as indicated in the owner’s manual for proper operation.
Compatibility with Mercury Engines
6. Are Mercury engines compatible with ethanol fuels?
The fuel-system components of Mercury engines will withstand up to 10 percent alcohol content in gasoline – the maximum level currently allowed by the EPA in the U.S. There are some efforts to establish E-20 (20 percent ethanol mixed with 80 gasoline) for use in some areas, but that will require agreement from EPA to grant a waiver. Part of the EPA waiver process will require verification from studies that demonstrate that higher levels of ethanol do not create problems with fuel-system materials or operation of hardware. E-20 has not been extensively studied by Mercury and is not acceptable for use in Mercury products. E-85 fuels must not be used in any Mercury engines and could seriously damage current Mercury products. It is not legal in the U.S. to market any ethanol fuel as gasoline if it contains more than 10 percent ethanol.
7. Will the use of fuels containing ethanol void my engine warranty?
Fuels containing up to 10 percent ethanol are considered acceptable for use in Mercury engines. Fuels containing higher levels of ethanol are not considered acceptable for use, and the use of fuels containing ethanol higher than 10 percent can void the warranty.

8. What about the fuel-system components on the boat?
It is important to follow boat manufacturers’ recommendations when selecting appropriate fuels. Use of an inappropriate fuel can result in damage to the engine and boat components that may require repair or replacement. Fuels with ethanol can attack some fuel-system components, such as tanks and lines, if they are not made from acceptable ethanol-compatible materials. This can lead to operational problems or safety issues such as clogged filters, leaks or engine damage.
9. Can ethanol-blended fuels affect the performance of two-stroke engines?
Two-stroke outboards should experience little or no decrease in performance due to gasoline fuels containing up to 10-percent ethanol when operated according to Mercury’s standard recommendations. When gasoline with ethanol is used for the first time after a fuel changeover from MTBE, the tank must be completely dry prior to introduction of gasoline with ethanol. Otherwise, phase separation could occur that could cause filter plugging or damage to the engine. If an engine is a 1990 or older model frequent inspections of all fuel-system components are advised to identify any signs of leakage, softening, hardening, swelling or corrosion. If any sign of leakage or deterioration is observed, replacement of the affected components is required before further operation.
10. How does ethanol affect my fiberglass fuel tank?
Fiberglass tanks manufactured prior to 1991 may not be compatible with gasoline containing ethanol. It has been reported that, in the presence of ethanol, some resins may be drawn out of fiberglass and carried into the engine where severe damage could occur. If an older fiberglass tank is used, check with the manufacturer to determine if gasoline with ethanol can be safely used.
11. Are older fuel lines prone to failure? What about gaskets?
During the 1980s, many rubber components for use in fuel systems were developed to withstand exposure to fuels containing ethanol. If rubber components in a fuel system are suspected to be of this vintage or older it may be advisable to replace them with newer ethanol-safe components before using fuels containing ethanol. Check with the manufacturer for advice or frequently inspect these fuel-system components for signs of swelling or deterioration and replace if problems are noted.

Recommended Practices

12. Ethanol is replacing MTBE in my region? What should I do?

Before gasoline with ethanol is introduced to your fuel tank, ask your boat manufacturer if any special precautions should be considered with the use of fuel containing ethanol. Check for the presence of water in the fuel tank. If any is found, remove all water and dry the tank completely. As a precaution, it is advisable to carry a few extra filters in case filter plugging becomes a problem during boating.

13. Should I add an additional fine-micron filter to the system to prevent debris from entering the engine?

The addition of another filter to the system will create another possible flow restriction that can starve the engine of fuel. Mercury already provides the appropriate level of filtration to protect the engine from debris.

14. How can a marina prepare for the change from MTBE to ethanol as the fuel oxygenate?

Check with the manufacturer to make certain the tank and lines won’t experience problems with ethanol. Inspect the tank for water and, if present, pump out all water and thoroughly clean the tank. Install ethanol-compatible filters. The tank should be less than 20 percent full before adding the first load of fuel with ethanol.

15. What is phase separation, and how do I deal with it?

If significant amounts of water are present in a fuel tank with gasoline that contains ethanol, the water will be drawn into the fuel until the saturation point is reached for the three-component mixture of water + gasoline + ethanol. Beyond this level of water, phase separation could cause most of the ethanol and water to separate from the bulk fuel and drop to the bottom of the tank, leaving gasoline with a significantly reduced level of ethanol in the upper phase (see Figure 1 below). If the lower phase of water and ethanol is large enough to reach the fuel inlet, it could be pumped directly to the engine and cause significant problems. Even if the ethanol water phase at the bottom of the tank is not drawn into the fuel inlet, the reduced ethanol level of the fuel reduces the octane rating by as much as 3 octane numbers, which could result in engine problems.

The level at which phase separation can occur is determined by a number of variables, including the amount of ethanol, the composition of the fuel, the temperature of the environment and the presence of contaminants. It is very important (A) that the system is inspected for significant quantities of water in the tank before using gasoline with ethanol and (B) to limit exposure of the fuel tank to excess water. If phase separation has occurred, it is necessary to completely remove all free water from the system and replace the fuel before continuing operation. Otherwise, engine problems could occur.


Figure 1: Sample of fuel from fuel tank in which phase separation
has occurred. The upper phase is gasoline with a reduced level
of ethanol. The lower level is a mixture of ethanol and water.

16. Is an additive available that can prevent phase separation?

There is no practical additive that can prevent phase separation from occurring. The only practical solution is to keep water from accumulating in the tank in the first place.

17. Are there any additives that can allow the phase-separated mixture to remix when added to the fuel tank?

No, the only way to avoid further problems is to remove the water, dispose of the depleted fuel, clean the tank and start with a fresh, dry load of fuel.


18. Is there a simple solution to water condensation in the tank as a result of ethanol?

It is best to maintain a full tank of fuel when the engine is not in use. This will reduce the void space above the fuel and will reduce the flow of air in and out of the tank with changes in temperature. This will reduce condensation on the internal walls of the tank and will limit exposure of the ethanol in the fuel to humidity and condensation.

19. What should be done when storing boats with ethanol-blended fuels for extended periods?

When preparing to store a boat for extended periods of two months or more, it is best to completely remove all fuel from the tank. If it is difficult or not possible to remove the fuel, maintaining a full tank of fuel with a fuel stabilizer added to provide fuel stability and corrosion protection is recommended. A partially full tank is not recommended because the void space above the fuel allows air movement that can bring in water through condensation as the temperature cycles up and down. This condensation potentially becomes a problem. Mercury Marine Fuel System Treatment & Stabilizer can help maintain fuel systems in storage. It contains oxidation inhibitors to reduce oxidation and gum formation, metal chelating agents to protect metal components from corrosion, water absorbing agents to reduce the presence of free water, and dispersants to help suspend and disperse debris. It is best used by adding to the tank at the recommended dosage, running the engine for 10 minutes to allow the system to be cleaned, shutting off the fuel valve to interrupt the fuel supply and allow the engine to run until it stops, topping off the tank until it’s full, and capping any openings to reduce the amount of exchange with the air that might bring in condensation.
- end -

[marco]

wahoo, brilliant piece of info you found and clause 15 and on really highlights the problems . that post should become a sticky i reckon .
cheers
mark

[TimiBoy]

I know I read in my manual somewhere NOT to use it with my Verado. The injectors are so fine they can be blocked by water, I think was the explanation. If I get to it today I will check, and refresh my memory.

In any case I run her on premium. It doesn't make any difference performance wise, but the stuff can sit in the tank without going off - not that she ever sits idle for long, I couldn't stand it!!!

[FNQCairns]

So I wonder what scat hit's the fan if 11% is used it all sounds like catchup to me, would feel confident using 5% if the maufacturer claimed 30%:)

Nice how everyone who advocates the use at some level never broach the problem of acid formation within carbs/fuel pumps or further internally, too hard and too real I suspect and without a doubt the spin would slow down a goodly amount - enough to stop them in their tracks.

Love the part where Merc claim water dispersant's/absorber in their stabilizer:)

cheers fnq

[Taroona]

Here is something to add to the debate that I found on a US web site. It was produced by a marina operator.


LITERATURE HIGHLIGHTS
– In 2006, many outboard owners reported marine damage and severe
engine failure from the use of ethanol blend fuels.
– Later investigation revealed gas they had used contained between 15%
and 40% ethanol – well above the safe legal limit.
– Many outboard manufacturers, including Mercury, now confirm their fuel
system components will withstand up to 10% ethanol in gasoline.
– The worst enemy of any ethanol/gasoline blend is water. Both E10 and
E85 have an affinity to absorb amazing amounts of water very quickly
– This affinity can cause “phase separation” when the fuel is
contaminated by water, a situation where water can dissolve into the
ethanol and be distributed throughout the tank
– Depending on conditions, as much as 80% of the ethanol can be drawn
out of the gasoline and form an ethanol-rich water solution that settles at
the bottom of the tank
– The settling of ethanol and water will cause two distinct layers to exist
within the fuel tank
• A top layer of gasoline which will have a lower octane rating, perhaps out of
its original specification
• A bottom layer which is a mix of water and ethanol which will not burn

Maybe somebody who knows more about this subject than I do would care to comment.

Les

[Outsider1]

An interesting thread link here about real e-10 problems in the US;

http://forums.etecownersgroup.com/tool/post/barnaclebill/vpost?id=2701286

Apparently e-10 fuel does not mix well with normal unleaded!?

Does not seem that the Star Tron product mentioned is available here yet!?

Cheers

Dave

[snapperbasher]

dont do it i nearly got stuck at deep tempest because of the rubber in the fuel pump detiorating. first tank of e10 from bp at manly. lucky i had spare fuel in small tanks and i could put them higher than the motor so it gravity fed the outboard.

cheers lochie

[Outsider1]

An interesting thread link here about real e-10 problems in the US;

http://forums.etecownersgroup.com/tool/post/barnaclebill/vpost?id=2701286

Apparently e-10 fuel does not mix well with normal unleaded!?

Does not seem that the Star Tron product mentioned is available here yet!?

Cheers

Dave

Well what do you know!

Opened up the last issue of Bush n Beach tonight and there is Star Tron advertised for sale in the Leisure Marine ad, so you can get it here!.

http://mystarbrite.com/startron/

Cheers

Dave

[KGW3]

Lets see ... $20,000 + for a new boat.. Cost of bait, rego, insurance, fishing gear, fuel economy of a large V8.. $300 per service.. Extreme Salt water wear and tear = devaluation. Can you save a few cents a litre on fuel ? Pretty insignificant by comparison.

[Gary Fooks]

for a long article on Ethanol and boats have a look at F&B magazine out yesterday

Gary