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View Full Version : Why measure to fork length????



ffejsmada
20-04-2008, 06:39 PM
Just wondering why some people measure Bream for example to fork length instead of overall length.
I don't see the point when Qld regs state to measure a concave or forked tail, to tip of tail, not to fork.
Afterall, you don't measure a convex tailed fish from anywhere but the tip of the tail.
What's the purpose and what's the point???????

Cheers Jeff.:-/

Keechie
20-04-2008, 06:44 PM
i have mates that live in nsw so i measure both that way i can say i got it this big to the fork so they get it but i have now taken on the habit but i don't know why. plus i think because i saw the guys on the afc do it so that could be why.

regards,
keechie

Leighton
20-04-2008, 06:54 PM
thats how its measured on ABT, wank factor

ffejsmada
20-04-2008, 06:58 PM
thats how its measured on ABT, wank factor

You got that right Captain!;D;D

Cammy
20-04-2008, 07:07 PM
I never new why people did it either, but i always measure mine to the end of the tail. Common sense through my eyes, since thats where fish ends to make up the overall length of the fish.

But hey people have there different ways of measuring.

Although would a forktail fisherman, say he caught a 38cm bream or would he prefer to call it 40cm? even though he doesnt go by that measurment rule.

Cammo

jeffo
20-04-2008, 07:18 PM
im with you guys on the wank factor a bit...but i will say that when the DPI do fish studies and collecting data they record all lengths in fork length, for the simple reason that it elliminates the risk of false data due to deformed fish (shortened tails would give lower readings).

Another little thought i will throw out there Re. legal legths. When you get a fish with a forked tail, measure it with the tail wide open then again with the tail closed.....with the tail closed the fish is longer- so which do the fisheries measure when checking for legal lengths. I release my fish unless they make legal length with the tail wide open (as it is when the fish is swimming) but have never bothered to ask how they interperate that rule.

BR65
20-04-2008, 07:23 PM
I believe it started in comp fishing to allow a saftey factor, minimizes the accidental takeing of undersized fish???

barra dont have forked tails cammy, so it is an overall length that is quoted.
all relative anyway, how accurate is the mat or measureing device being used???

Cammy
20-04-2008, 07:29 PM
oh yer, lol. well another fish. once again im an idiot in a post,.

ok its edited so people cant see my smartness.;D

Cammo

BR65
20-04-2008, 07:40 PM
oh yer, lol. well another fish. once again im an idiot in a post,.

ok its edited so people cant see my smartness.;D

Cammo


Cammy, wasnt trying to be a smart arse mate, just yakking with the keyboard

cheers
brian

ffejsmada
20-04-2008, 07:55 PM
I believe it started in comp fishing to allow a saftey factor, minimizes the accidental takeing of undersized fish???


Also as jeffo stated, the measurement of a fish with closed forked tail is longer than an open measured tail.
Fair enough in comps I suppose, but we are not comp fisherman that post on here with a couple of just legal bream!

tunaticer
20-04-2008, 08:05 PM
I measure all my fish to the fork because you can not stretch a fork length by adjusting the way the tips of the tail sit. I have seen so many clubbers weigh in undersize fish because they push the tip abnormally to reach the line and that is wrong. The DPI should change measuring to the fork length and the convex length to stop people stretching the limits.

If the minimum size to take was fork length for concave tails and it was enforced I think it would also help the fishery a substantial amount in releasing all the fish that are getting stretched to make the bag.

I would like to see all club fishermen adopt a maximum number spread accross all species for weighin at comps.

Jack.

BR65
20-04-2008, 08:08 PM
know what your saying Jeff, plus if youve got to squeeze the tail to make legal length, that fisho may want to start haveing a think about post death shrinkage, its a given that a fish loses length after being dropped in the esky.
I think fork measurement is just a carry over from comp/tourny, you look at the bass boys and its all fork lengths, maybe its a system used more by the c&r fishos than others??
doesnt really worry me either way, though when Im fishing for a feed, I measure to the tip of the tail

cheers
brian

Horse
20-04-2008, 08:09 PM
Fork length is used in most scientific work as in certain species long trailing filaments on the tail can vary considerably between one specimen and another
As far as I am concerned I measure to see if its legal or what its overall length is

BR65
20-04-2008, 08:12 PM
anyone been checked by fisheries who can confirm their views on squeezing tails, Im interested what they do in a tight call

Cammy
20-04-2008, 08:18 PM
Cammy, wasnt trying to be a smart arse mate, just yakking with the keyboard

cheers
brian

nah i wasnt having a go at you, i do many stupid things on ausfish that i dont mean to do lol, like the thread in "news" section about the mary river,,,,,geez did i start something.
But anyway no hard feelings aye, i really need to get some sleep lol

Cammo

Steve B
20-04-2008, 08:23 PM
I measure all my fish to the fork because you can not stretch a fork length by adjusting the way the tips of the tail sit. I have seen so many clubbers weigh in undersize fish because they push the tip abnormally to reach the line and that is wrong. The DPI should change measuring to the fork length and the convex length to stop people stretching the limits.

If the minimum size to take was fork length for concave tails and it was enforced I think it would also help the fishery a substantial amount in releasing all the fish that are getting stretched to make the bag.

I would like to see all club fishermen adopt a maximum number spread accross all species for weighin at comps.

Jack.

Well said Jack. Totally agree with your post.

As for the ABT....they WEIGH fish for the scoring. They only measure fish the ensure they are legal. measuring to the fork is a uniform and accurate way to measure. cant be stretched ect to get size.

As for the 'wank factor' that some here have stated, that's just being childish IMHO. Have you ever competed in a tournament to base this 'wank factor' judgement......probably not.....its easier just to sit back and critisise the concept on a keyboard.

steve

BR65
20-04-2008, 08:31 PM
just looked at that thread cammy, you sure know how to ask a question lol

Leighton
20-04-2008, 08:36 PM
Well said Jack. Totally agree with your post.

As for the ABT....they WEIGH fish for the scoring. They only measure fish the ensure they are legal. measuring to the fork is a uniform and accurate way to measure. cant be stretched ect to get size.

As for the 'wank factor' that some here have stated, that's just being childish IMHO. Have you ever competed in a tournament to base this 'wank factor' judgement......probably not.....its easier just to sit back and critisise the concept on a keyboard.

steve


Not having a go at all at the Tournament anglers, I do understand the need for a non bias way of measuring a fish particularly when there is big money and sponsorships up for grabs.
Plenty of people quote fork lengths for what I believe a wank value

chewy01
20-04-2008, 09:07 PM
hi all,
br65 i went through this whole process with the dpi regarding squeezing the tails(having read somewhere about about natural swimming position of the tail) and after about 10 emails round all dpi departments ::) they came up with they would prefer fish to be in a normal swiming position however if push came to shove squeezing the tail together was allowed. This came about because a mate made a 23cm measurer out of pvc conduit and when the whiting was put in it,its tail follwed the curve of the pvc thus making it longer. To avoid all the mucking round and rechecking for shrinkage i only take them if they make it to the fork.I only eat whiting and grunter so its no big deal.If i was chasing threadies etc it would make a huge difference. hope the dpi info helped..
chewy..........

Steve B
20-04-2008, 09:09 PM
Not having a go at all at the Tournament anglers, I do understand the need for a non bias way of measuring a fish particularly when there is big money and sponsorships up for grabs.
Plenty of people quote fork lengths for what I believe a wank value

Fair enough.

Cheech
21-04-2008, 07:36 AM
hi all,
br65 i went through this whole process with the dpi regarding squeezing the tails(having read somewhere about about natural swimming position of the tail) and after about 10 emails round all dpi departments ::) they came up with they would prefer fish to be in a normal swiming position however if push came to shove squeezing the tail together was allowed. This came about because a mate made a 23cm measurer out of pvc conduit and when the whiting was put in it,its tail follwed the curve of the pvc thus making it longer. To avoid all the mucking round and rechecking for shrinkage i only take them if they make it to the fork.I only eat whiting and grunter so its no big deal.If i was chasing threadies etc it would make a huge difference. hope the dpi info helped..
chewy..........

I have spoken to fisheries about this as well and received the same answer.

I have no problem in straightening a fish tail on the measurer to find out the length. To me, anything else is only guesswork on the length, whereas straightening the fish gives an absolute length. Seems to me to make more sense. There is a difference between holding straight and distorting.

ffejsmada
21-04-2008, 09:32 AM
It seems ridiculous to me that Qld. Fisheries can have a measuring system where you can get 2 measurements. One could be legal by closing the tail, the other could be illegal by opening the tail. Crazy!!!!

It would be easier for everyone if measurements were changed by Qld D.P.I&F
to make ALL concave tailed fish measured at the fork.
I wonder why they didn't do that in the first place????

Jeff.

tunaticer
21-04-2008, 05:53 PM
I can't see why they won't do it seeing they have recently changed the way sand crabs are measured to a non tamperable measurement (notch to notch).

Seems to me that if you want to measure the tips of the tail, then i would imagine you would measure the frills on a girls blouse than her body measurements............ the boasting factor just doesn't measure up.

Jack.

Mexikan
21-04-2008, 06:40 PM
I dont know why we should its the way the kiwis do it!!
Mex

skipalong
21-04-2008, 07:15 PM
more so the fin shortening to keep

Oh Gee
21-04-2008, 07:56 PM
The believe most amiture fishing clubs out there have a minimum size for bream of 25cm before its allowed on the scale and have done for years.

g

tigermullet
21-04-2008, 08:52 PM
I'm having trouble here working out what is right and good and what is wrong and shameful.

It seems that you are forked if you do and forked if you don't.

Little grey men
22-04-2008, 09:00 AM
I used to get confused by this, and decided to measure my bass to the fork for one simple reason.....I fish for these things most weekends. It's just to challenge myself. It makes it harder to get a 50cm bass if you measure to the fork.
Doesn't bother me how other people measure their fish, but I enjoy the challenge....wank factor or not, it floats my boat.

cqfreshie
22-04-2008, 04:51 PM
Home (http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/cps/rde/dpi/hs.xsl/home_ENA_HTML.htm) > Fisheries (http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/cps/rde/dpi/hs.xsl/28_ENA_HTML.htm) > Recreational fishing (http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/cps/rde/dpi/hs.xsl/28_139_ENA_HTML.htm) > Fishing rules & regulations (http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/cps/rde/dpi/hs.xsl/28_2981_ENA_HTML.htm) > Measuring



Measuring

Measuring finfish

Finfish are measured from the tip of their mouth to the end of their tail (see illustration). If you unintentionally take a fish (including finfish or crustaceans) that is not the legal size or is unwanted, return it to the water immediately, taking as much care as possible to avoid causing injury to the fish.
Measuring crab

For guidelines on how to measure crabs see Crabs, prawns and lobsters (http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/cps/rde/dpi/hs.xsl/28_3065_ENA_HTML.htm).


http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/images/Fisheries_RecreationalFishing/FishMeasuringBoard-lindr-500.gif


Surely this (http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/cps/rde/dpi/hs.xsl/28_3011_ENA_HTML.htm) answers the question?

Cheers
Graham

jackash
28-04-2008, 08:41 PM
I go to the fork length, dunno why, always have. Thats the way i was taught as a youngster. Too me its sorta the same as why do we give a fish's weight in pounds, when we use kg's over here in australia. Jsut the way its been done for me.
In any case ive caught breambo's that have gone 40 to the tip, but ill only really be satisfied when i get a 40 fork length... maybe im jsut an idiot but.