When is a bass, not a bass??

[PNG1M]

Hi All,

I recently joined the IGFA (International Game Fishing Association) as an individual member as I was interested in accessing some world record information about PNG Black Bass. I'll be heading that way for an eight day trip later this year and wanted to see how 'reachable' the current records were. Based on what I saw, there's a chance I've already landed record fish on previous trips, but at the time claiming records was nothing I even thought about.

On the IGFA site I sussed out the section about the various species eligible for record applications but PNG Black Bass WAS NOT THERE...!!!

BUT, further along it WAS there but not as a bass.
It was listed as SNAPPER, PAPUAN BLACK (Latin name: Lutjanua Goldiei)

I asked a mate in the fishing club in PNG and he suggested that the yanks - who like to be 'biggest and best' didn't want their native species undermined by a gigantic usurper from abroad, so they got around it by classifying the PNG Black Bass as a member of the SNAPPER family..!

Apparently Mangrove Jack are also considered to be part of that same 'snapper' genus...what? Wouldn't read about it, would you!

So we had better contact the editor of Fishing World (Mr Fisho) and the other fishing mags too and tell they that they are no longer to run any stories about PNG Black Bass as there IS NO SUCH FISH...! according to the IGFA categories.

Rather, they should calling them "PAPUAN BLACK SNAPPER" Doesn't sound right!

So back to my question "When is a bass, not a bass??"

Obviously the answer is "When it's a Papuan Black Snapper!"

Any thoughts..???
http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/z/user/3/7/0/7/4/main.1208434827.jpg

[tunaticer]

A species very similar to our mangrove jacks exists in America and its called a red snapper. Same family being a lutjannid (mangrove jacks, fingermark, moses perch, red bass, black bass etc).
Technically none of those fish are bass, all lutjannid family. True bass I think are toothless. (correct me if I am wrong) The largemouth bass for USA is of the salmon family also so technically its an oddity too.

I think "bass" itself is a global generic term given to all different sorts of fishes. Whiting here are a completely different style of fish in europe. Same with cods from around the world, vastly different in species and body form.

Jack.

[Pumba]

PNG,
As tunaticer said, most fish of the Lutjanid genus are reffered to as snapper.
When people refer to Black Bass, they are using a common name- and common names often bear no resemblemce to the scientific name.

Thats the problem with common names- they can get confused so easily.

As another example, Our Barramundi Lates Calcarifer are often referred to in SE Asia as Asian or Giant Seabass, and the African counterpart Lates niloticus is referred to as the Nile Perch. Are the a bass or a perch?

To complicate matters further, Barramundi used to be the common name for our Saratoga. In the 80's, 'Barramundi' was adopted as the marketing name for calcarifer.



Matt

[PNG1M]

Cheers guys,

Thanks for the info...

So when I claim my possible world record for PNG Black Bass later this year and I want to report it to fishing world mag - with photos, I really should report the catch as a black snapper...

Oh, well I guess the fishing mag could get around it by saying that it is 'commonly known' as a bass but scientifically is referred to as a 'snapper'.

I wonder if the term "black bass" is misleading to some anglers, as in fact the fish is actually not a bass at all (according to the scientific term)....

So does that mean the rod producers should change the names of their 'you beaut' 10-20kg PNG Black Bass rods to Papuan Black Snapper rods instead..??

[tunaticer]

I would claim the record as a PNG Black Bass (Lutjanua Goldiei) and avoid the confusion. In the local area and in the sportfishing community it will be recognised as the Papuan New Guinea Black Bass virtually in every corner of the world because the name PNG denotes the location.

Is there a record set for this species yet? You may be creating it if not.

Good luck.

Jack.

[oldboot]

There may also be some eliment of marketing in the whole thing.

The yanks are so bass focused, that if you want to get there attention you have to call whatever it is a bass.

I understand someone down the coast was trying to promote ( toung in cheek) the flat head as " Australian large mouthed brown bass".

Then there will be the types who will put their hands on their hips and say "THATS NOT A BASS".

There are a heap of those words that in truth realy arent helpfull and are there to satisy past calonial perceptions
.
Bass
Perch
Cod
bream
whiting
oak
ash
mahogany
and it just ges on.

cheers

[PNG1M]

The IGFA world records for "Snapper, Papuan Black" (otherwise PNG Black Bass) are:

Line Class: Fish Weight:
4kg 3.0kg
6kg 10.8kg
8kg 8.16kg
10kg 17.4kg
15kg 9.5kg
24kg 5.68kg
All Tackle (open) 19.2kg

Out of the above I have defintely caught several fish heavier in weight for the 15 & 24kg line class. A lot of fishos would have caught world record fish without even knowing it. The one for the 24kg line class is particularly pissy. The bloke who caught it obviously made an effort to submit the record claim, and noone else has bothered.

If you could be bothered with submitting the paperwork for a particular line class to the IGFA it is only then that you could get a record acknowledged, with your name up in lights.

I've never submitted one in the past (always too hard basket) but I have obtained the neceessary paperwork now and am familiar with the requirements (like certified scales etc) so later this year I'll give it a try.

I know plenty of blokes who would easily have broken both the 15 & 24kg line class records for black bass (umpteen times). I've seen many of these fish myself. It's just a matter of if you want to go through the paperwork rigmarole or not.

I actually have a photo of the open class 19.2kg black bass but do you think I can get the bloody thing to copy & paste into this message....geeeeze.
I'll try again later...

[jim_bream]

SWEET JAYSUS!
PNG1M, I grew up in Zimbabwe (what's left of it!! grrrr). We have the American Bass over there which are called largemouth bass or black bass. (Also a variety called Smallmouth bass, much like the freshwater bass we have here, the Australian Bass?) But I believe that they are true relatives imported from the states.... The biggest I've heard of/ seen in Sth Africa or Zim was about the 8/9lb mark. I nearly fell off my chair when I saw your pic's. That's a top effort there mate. If you caught something that big in a river in Zim, you'd be fighting off the crocs and a few hungry locals getting the brute into the boat. Now.... when does that flight leave for Port Moreseby?
Are fishing trips over there pricey, I've been thinking of a Fiji or Vanuatu fishing trip. Never thought much about PNG....
Zimbo Jimbo

[PNG1M]

Hey Zimbo Jimbo,

Send me a PM with your email contact and I can give you loads of info about how to arrange a fishing trip to PNG in the exact same location that the pics are from.

It's largely 'do it yourself' and no frills hence not expensive. Accommodation for example is $20.00 per night (that price includes having your laundry done & firewood for the BBQ). The guest house is nice & clean with beds, bedding, mozzie nets & fly screen covering the windows.

There is a long drop toilet outside and the washing facilities is via half a 44 gallon drum of water 'splash shower' in bamboo screened platform (under the stars).

Unfortunately its BYO drinks & food as it is remote, and you do your own cooking. There is no restaurant or bar (but you can drink your 'duty free'). They have tank rain water for drinking but best to add a purifying tab or three. The locals like to put on a traditional 'sing sing' in the evenings - quite interesting & entertaining.

Usually the locals will give you a fresh leg of wild venison (deer meat) as feral deer frequent the area. Not too bad if slow cooked on the barby or in slices baked in foil.

And if the prawns happen to be running they are huge river prawns and great on the taste buds. The way they catch the prawns is to spear them individually at night from a canoe after sighting their eyes in the water, so don't even think about prawns as live bait unless you bring your own prawn net (which I might do)!

Boat hire around $80.00 per day per boat - that includes a driver & deckie.
Then you pay for fuel on a 'how much you use basis". We usually go through an average of 40-50 litres per day depending on how far we venture (at around $3.00 per litre). We fish two per boat - one at each end - for safety reasons.

I have been to this place FIVE times previously since 2005. Later this year I'm heading there on an independently arranged trip with a group of six (ex-Bris) then a week later another group of four are heading there from Tassie.

The fishing operation itself was introduced by the mining company OTML who are trying to get the local people into 'tourism initiatives' such as fishing & bird watching or deer spotting.

OTML have funded building materials and expertise and have helped the people with training etc, so they have been very instrumental - also in getting the support from the wider community so that the villagers welcome tourists (rather than expecting 'compensation')

Anyway, the location is SUKI CREEK and it flows into the Fly River in the Moorhead region of the South Fly. You can see where it is on Google Earth.

The people are friendly, the location is REMOTE (ie wetlands; fly in - fly out), and the fishing is the best I have ever experienced. That's why I'm up to my 6th trip.

The other main drawback (apart from BYO food & beverages) is that if you are flying there ex-Port Moresby the flights are only once per week, on weekends so you need to commit to a full week (fine - as long as the fishin's good).
They have two-way radio contact with OTML and airlines in case of emergencies (hmmm...should I flatten the barbs on my trebles or not - haven't in the past)

Any readers out there who'd like more info and/or advice on how to arrange your own trip (literally "Do It Yourself" - no middle men, tour companies or agents involved) you can PM me your email contact. The best season is March through to September with June to August probably the optimum.


Cheers,
png