Is it me

[horseboy]

The first thing i must say at the start of this post is i am not having a go at anyone and has nothing directly to do with anyone from this site.

I have been wondering for sometime what is going on. Society in general seems to have become more aggressive, greedy and ignorant to what is happening around them. We always seem to be in a rush we have to have our own way and not many people will show up and lend a hand when the chips are down. We expect our comunity groups to help but less people are volunteering for these groups ie, VMR SES Lions Apex ETC As in the boat ramp etiquette post we here people say stuff like we where here first and take up whole boat rampsfor purposes other than intended. Nomore are there friendly waves when you see another person towing a boat on the highway knowing they are going on an adventure somewhere. I pulled up to help someone push a car around a corner of a busy road cars come past beeping horns hurling abuse and we where of the carriageway. I helped a ladie change a tyre in acarpark a few weeks back she had been waiting an hour for roadside assist it took me 5 minutse and i even had to in flate the tyre. I am not some old digger who is retired and has sparetime i am a father of 2 children and work away from town. But i know if i offer help with my 2 kids around when they get older they will do the same. I guess all i am saying is dont get frustrated with have to wait at a boat ramp an extra 5 minutes enjoy the time have a chat offer help, If you see some one broken down either on the water or land ask if they need a hand even just the lend of a phone or a radion can make the difference. and if you see the old lady at the shop having trouble with her trolley offer her a hand.
I try to do atleast one helpfull thing a day and gee it makes me feel good.

Regards

Wade

[Noelm]

I guess it is just a "fact of life" these days, most people live with a Mobile Phone glued to their Ear, everyone is in a rush to get to work,and, get home and God forbid anyone who dares do the speed limit on a multi lane Road, most families do not even Eat together now days, and the biggest drama is if the Remote Control is lost, we will spend an hour looking fir it, but refuse to get off the Lounge to turn on/off the TV, Familiy Values are very fast disappearing in our high speed, Text and MSN World, the News is filled with doom and gloom from the other side of the World in real time, I guess it just sort of rubs off, and we become suspicious of anybody and everybody, might be time to live in a Tent in some remote Seaside Location maybe.

[Xahn1960]

I don't think its you..... I've noticed the same thing, I'm not all that old ( 48 ) but I can remember times when people allways pulled up to offer a hand, or waved as they passed. Thankfully out in the country that spirit has not completely died out like it has in our major centres but I guess its heading that way :(

Bill.

[mik01]

mate you're spot on unfortunately!

a few weeks back while coming home from the shops, a couple of old blokes were outside of their car by the roundabout at Birkdale shops scratching their heads.

picture this - where you enter the roundabout they were just past the first left turn on the far left of the actual road in the 'middle' of the roundabout - ie cars could easily drive straight ahead and navigate the roundabout.

I asked if they were ok and they said their steering had completely failed and they didn't know what to do. ok I says, and went round the roundabout and parked behind them with hazards on - still cars could easily navigate the roundabout.

turns out their steering had snapped somewhere and they weren't going anywhere. made sure they had a towie on the way, and as I was getting into my car some knob and his mate went past in a ute and proceeded to call us 'c--kheads' quite loudly out the window.

I was so angry that I had flashes of following him and his mate and sorting it out like gentlemen, however quickly realised I would have been no better than them.

still I can't understand why you would abuse someone who is in need of help?

oh, and a few years ago I was involved in a serious accident on the highway to Toowoomba, where I hit a number of roadworks barriers at 80k's. As I stood next to the car in a daze and clearly in shock, some turd in a semi beeps his horn and starts laughing at me out his window while he slowly drives by!!
yep - true story that one.

[coucho]

mik01 sometimes don't you just wish you just wish you had a snapperhead handy?
I hear you guys the world seems to be changing for the worse

[bdowdy]

the way the world is today with people sueing each other over stupid things, i think people look at situations differently.( THEY WOULD LIKE TO HELP BUT ARE SCARED TO INCASE SOMEONE,SOMETHING HAPPENS..????BUT YEH IM LUCKY TO LIVE IN THE COUNTRY WERE PEOPLE STILL WAVE AT EACH OTHER,HELP EACH OTHER... ive only noticed how rude people are lately,theres no respect for other people...its achanging world and one that i hope to change by staying the person i am today...cheers bdowdy..brett

[BaitThrower]

Yeah sure is changing for the worse. I hate when you are trying to back out of a carpark at the shops and most people dont want to stop but still zoom past behind you, even if the gap is just passable. Hopeless! I'll stop and help anyone I think needs a hand, however, you get some people that just want to abuse your kindness it seems. You give them an inch and they think they can take a mile and abuse it. These people I shut down right away!

But, there is hope, and still a lot of good folks on the water, including the guy that gave me a short tow a few weeks back at cabbage tree point after countless other boats zoomed past with their heads turned the other way. In fact, this guy even took the time to untie his twin engine from a huge cruiser that was pulling it to come and give me a tow. Cheers mate. Also, at Vic Pt boat ramp there were several who helped my wife and kids load and unload from the boat - thanks guys - and help with trailering the boat again. I would do the same.

There are still good people out there, its just harder to find them :(

[mik01]

mik01 sometimes don't you just wish you just wish you had a snapperhead handy?
I hear you guys the world seems to be changing for the worse


haha - yeah, I'm gonna start carrying around a snapper head for just those occasions! maybe I could get it embalmed or something so it doesn't smell?;D

[SummerTrance]

Yes, its sad but most people dont care about others anymore.

Fortunatley there is still a lot of good folk out the, ya just need to see past the 10 wankers to the nice guys.

Last week I was on the Noosa River heading from way upsteam where I had been fishing, on my way to the woods, for a fish b4 dusk, when I came across 3 fellas trying to paddle their broken down ski boat.
Now there was 3 good reasons I didnt really want to help them. 1. Wanted to get to the woods b4 dusk. 2. They were in a ski boat (who usually play - lets see how close we can go to the fishermen) and 3. my 70hp motor is not designed for towing other boats.

But hey, it was 5:15pm and I couldnt leave them out on the river, so I towed them back to the ramp.

I beleive in kama... what goes around - comes around

[FNQCairns]

We truly have no desire to unfairly victimise them...

Sure this is true, although the intent is of little consequence, the result is what expresses desire.

I know today I feel less safe, have less opportunity and responsible freedom, today to do no harm is no excuse and of little civil value in any individual under our regulations. Simply cannot comprehend what my daughter will be facing when she is of voting age, can we regulate to disenfranchise individuals yet further - I say YES...regulation makes for extreemly poor laws!

I cannot in any way blame those that behave with a lack of respect or moral code, society regulated by government has taught them well in that they are on their own and have no where to trust or turn with even simple interest at heart, why behave to higher plane today?- no life advantage in that.

Animals know the treatment they receive above all other 'higher orders' just ask any dog - you get back what you give.

It's the trickle up theory:)

cheers fnq

[Chimo]

Just do unto others as you would like it................works for me and mine!

Went into a shop where I had never been before; on the Gold Coast; to buy some bread, forgot to grab any cash before I went out, said sorry I'd get some and come back she said' you a local and yes I replied to which she said hey just take it and drop the money in sometime when your passing.. which I did.
Now the Gold Coast is supposed to be a sad impersonal place (Its just a country town really.) but if you give off the right aura it aint and neither is anywhere in my opinion.

On the tyre changing vein, did that for a lady all dolled up on her way to work which was cool. When fitted she says drop into X hotel in Surfers sometime and I'd like to buy you and and yours a drink. She certainly didn't have to do that but what the hey we did have a drink one night anyway!

Lifes what you make it; just remember your here for lifestyle! or is that just the Gold Coast?

Cheers
Chimo

[LeeannP]

I believe it stems from extended trading hours and shift work, people being taken away from their families and having to work on weekends or at night. Take the family unit away and all the other problems seem to flow on from it.

[Steve B]

Leanne you have nailed it in one IMHO.

being a paramedic for may years, I could tell you hundreds of stories about greedy, selfish, disprectful and 'un aussie' behavior. On the other hand, there would be thousands of good humanity stories too. I beleive people generally have an inbulit intuition to do good. Unfortunatly, that intuition is rapidly becoming disloved in todays society.

I aint that old to have noticed the changes in society, even in the last 5 or so years. I beleive it coincides with the flood of reality TV and the desensitization of our childrens innocence through TV, internet and the media. This is the main reasons for our increasing acceptance of anti social behavours being some what normal. i remember you couldn't sa F#%K on TV at all, now its on every show after 8.30.

Children crave guidance, love and disipline from the family unit. When the values, morals and ethical behaviour lessons are not being learnt from the family unit (refer to what what Leanne said), kids turn to the TV or internet to fill these voids, well you know the rest. The cylce prepetuates from there.

cheers steve.

In answer to your question wade, No its not just you!!!:D

[horseboy]

Thankyou to all who have reponded!
I myself get caught in the trap of rush rush rush and it is only when i get to slow down look at myself and others around and think what can i do to make this place better for everyone. And i guess i like to think that maybe the good things will come back around. and if i put out good karma it will improve my fishing (i wish)Anyways thanks all you all have put a positive lean to my day.

Wade

[NAGG]

I believe it stems from extended trading hours and shift work, people being taken away from their families and having to work on weekends or at night. Take the family unit away and all the other problems seem to flow on from it.


If we take one step back ....... Maybe its because these days we want it all .... & ... we want it all now
The pressures of society force people to conform ( whether its conscience or not!)

It gets worst ... year by year.

I'm sure this increases stress levels & creates impatience & indifference as people focus on their own personal goals & agenda:( .

Nagg

PS .... I played my first game of golf in a few years on the weekend...... Our group was abused by the group behind us ( one guy in particular.... playing in a social club) ..... After the ninth , we stopped for a drink etc ( as the norm) .... Mr Abusive walked past us & straight onto the tee ( mumbling... I'm not putting up with this shite .... ) & he hit off :o .... He actually left one of his playing partners behind .... who stopped for a drink & a pie!
I'd never seen this behavior in 20 years playing! ..... If I was not playing with an elderly client .. I would have given it to him both barrels
At no point of time did they catch us on the tee ...( we would have invited them to play through) ..... What a tossa! .......

[kingtin]

Spot on Nagg.

Leeann, I agree with you to some extent but we are all responsible for our own desires and behaviour. Yes, society is "faster" and kids (and adults) are subjected to more peer pressure and media advertising but I believe that we should take a deep breath and take a long hard look. It is as it is, because we have made it that way.

Folk are more abrupt, rude, unconcerned for others, because they are wrapped up in themselves, and their self - inflicted dramas. In trying to "do the best" for their kids and themselves, they have become overworked, stressed, inconsiderate, and self-centred, mainly because they're bloody worn out and don't recognise it.

I could go on for hours on this, but suffice to say, materialism isn't all it's made out to be. My kids are "stable" because there was always a parent there for them. We have always been a one income family. Their values are the values of the previous generation because they had a chance to learn those values from us, and not their peers, and they've shared them with innumerable foster kids one of whom, I'm happy to say, has returned, after leaving us 18 months ago. She saw other folks' values, lived with them, and realised it was not what she wanted. She was brave enough to knock on our door and say, "I'm sorry mum and dad, I thought you were too strict but I have learned a lot since leaving you and I realise now that what you have taught me is the right way. I have to say that this past week has been one of the happiest of our lives, although sadly, her brothers are on the streets and are lost to us forever.

I'm not tall poppying here, but simply stating how I see it. It's ok chasing the money, if you benefit from it, but what good is a 4 bed house, with rumpus, and pool, and study, if it's empty and you're at work, and your kids are walking the streets and have no sense of family or social values.

The values of society reflect the values of family, and the sooner we get back to basics, the better, but unfortunately, I can't see that happening :'(

That said, far too often we only see the crap, and the ferals, and you must first ask yourself why are they ferals? Yes, we have to take responsibility for our own actions but if no-one has taught us responsibility, then is it any wonder that we become feral?

There are plenty of good folk out there (as is indicative of most ausfishers) and it's them we must focus on and not dwell on the doom and gloom if we are to enjoy life to the full and pass that on to our kids. Vibes are like waves, they travel, so no matter how pissed off you are at the guy honking his horn, or the person nicking your parking space, and the one that really pisses me off, the person that flicks their fag end out the car window, don't let your kids see your disgust and anger.........they have it tough enough as it is.

kev

kev

[NAGG]

We just have to all learn how to deal with it!

If you hate launching your boat at a queued launching ramp at 7 am on a Sunday morning - - - then Launch a 5am on a Saturday!
If you hate grocery shopping on a Sat morning ...... Go at 9pm on a Friday night

Life is busier & more stressed ....... Learn to live with it ( around it) ..... as there is no point hating the world because you dont get your way:)

Nagg

[Reel Nauti]

Regardless of what others do or say, we (those who live by the do unto others...rule) must always show effective management of our emotions, thoughts and feelings. By that example, we provide leadership....empowering others to think that there is another way simply by what we show them.

It would be too easy to throw our hands in the air and shout "what's the bloody use?!". That's when we let THEM overwhelm us. Don't ever, ever, ever let that happen Horseboy.

Cheers

Dave

[tigermullet]

It could all be about the laws of attraction and that karma stuff. That's what my wife reckons but she also thinks that she was a witch in a previous incarnation. There hasn't been much improvement in this incarnation either, let me tell you.

I musta been a toad.

Somehow it's all mixed up with bananas - according to her, they're supposed to be full of calcium or potassium or some other new age nutrient but I reckon that they are just plain bad luck and stop fish biting and make people angry or whatever, when they get too carried away with their own importance.

We need to slow down and take care of each other is what I reckon but then I've just got back from Mullumbimby.

[NAGG]

It could all be about the laws of attraction and that karma stuff. That's what my wife reckons but she also thinks that she was a witch in a previous incarnation. There hasn't been much improvement in this incarnation either, let me tell you.

I musta been a toad.

Somehow it's all mixed up with bananas - according to her, they're supposed to be full of calcium or potassium or some other new age nutrient but I reckon that they are just plain bad luck and stop fish biting and make people angry or whatever, when they get too carried away with their own importance.

We need to slow down and take care of each other is what I reckon but then I've just got back from Mullumbimby.

Wow man ..... thats deep;D

[barkers creek]

just the other day , 2 days ago i was camping up at a isolated creek known as narrows ,,,bout 30min from closest town and ild barely call it a town (mt larcom) lol, anyhu dad dropped me and a mate off and did the 1 hour and 35min root back home, went over to our camping spot across the river and went ofr a fish....as wee found out the tide drops extreamly fast and we couldn't access our camping gear so we waited 3 hours quickly run up ..(slowly waddled over oysters) to grab our gear and went to the camping grounds at the boat ramp.......theres about 4 permanent caravans there its not a big spot and no one really camps there unless they have a nice set up......so we carried our gear up and sat down and looked at our wounds on our feet and scratched our arms and legs as 1000000s of sandflies slowly ate us and totally looked out of place........a man yell outs ...""want some spray mate" quickly replie "yes plzz" he walked over rand gave it to us and said we need a tin to put some sticks and stuff and an cow shit to keep the sandie away so he went and got us a tin ...handed him the spray back "" narr mate keep it urll need it "" well i be ...wat a nice block

it was high tide soo i tide the boat up and woke up in the morning about 8 to see it miles up the banks...wait 2 hourse in the water no dramas new it would happen perfect time to get some livies.....but the nice block (hu wasent to old either 30-40) walked down and asked us if we want a halp lifting our boat in the water .......anhu at the end of the day he was one of the nicest blocks and with out him our trip would have been up to shit.........HE HAD AUSFISH STICKERS ON HES BOAT but i didnt ask him anyhu regarding them cuz i seen them as we drove away.
and ill also add ...he asked if we cought anyfish and we didnt except for 3 slimely cattys and lost a good salmon and the block goes ""here mate have this"" and handed me a nice big crab :)
any ways if he reads this,,,,thanks mate muchly apreciated .....
cheers nath

[JEWIENEWIE]

How is this one. Last week i was having a lesierly stroll with the wife andbaby, went past my neighbours house who was staying else where at the time and noticed smoke coming from a fire he lit a few days ago. I then noticed more smoke and flames coming from around 50m away, the fire he lit and with the wind howling, sparks had ignited the bush near by. I quickly sent the wife to call the rural fire brigade while i tried to contain the fire with buckets of water.
I called the person responsible to inform him of the situation and copped a mouth full for calling the fire brigade as he thought he needed a permit which he did not get. I thought, next time i will let the f@#$#@g thing burn and see him in court for burning down half
the town.
I thought a handshake and a carton of beer was more in order.>:(
Jewie

[kingtin]

I thought a handshake and a carton of beer was more in order.>:(
Jewie

Nah! I don't think he'd accept that as your apology ;) ;D

kev

[JEWIENEWIE]

Nah! I don't think he'd accept that as your apology ;) ;D

kev
;D ;D ;D ;D

[Little grey men]

It really makes you wonder what the future holds. I try to surround myself with good calm people. Especially now that I have kids. My friends are some of the calmest and kindest people you could meet. I think this is rubbing off on my little boy as well. I invited a bloke from work to fish with us at North Pine on Saturday morning.....Caleb asked me " Is he quiet and calm " yes mate he's a nice guy.
I drop my wife off in the city most days so I have my fill of crazy every morning and afternoon. I hate those times...it certainly brings out the worst in me. I think I've made up some swear words, but I always swear very quietly so as to not stress the wife.

[SgBFish]

I am not a religious person but I think we rate socities past and present by how they fare against the seven deadly sins. Unfortunately the drug of a nation (TV) promotes them as appropriate behavour.

Lust
Lust (or lechery) is usually thought of as involving obsessive or excessive thoughts or desires of a sexual nature.
Gluttony
Gluttony is the over-indulgence and over consumption of everything to the point of waste
Greed
Greed is, like lust and gluttony, a sin of excess. However, greed is applied to the acquisition of wealth in particular.
Sloth
Sloth as being more simply a sin of laziness or indifference, of an unwillingness to act, an unwillingness to care.
Wrath

Wrath (or anger) may be described as inordinate and uncontrolled feelings of hatred and anger.
Envy
Like greed, envy is characterized by an insatiable desire; they differ, however, for two main reasons. First, greed is largely associated with material goods, whereas envy may apply more generally.
Pride
It is identified as a desire to be more important or attractive than others, failing to give compliments to others though they may be deserving of.

Scott

[dogsbody]

I think that it has a lot to do with love. Yes the L word,,doesn't get bandied about among the guy folk,,except when you'd love a beer or I'd love to go for a fish.

But really if you've had some love in your life and learned how to love you generally turn out alright. It's when you haven't had a lot of love that you can turn angry and resentful and generally think the world owes you.

Think about your family and friends in your life,, what do you think about them. Do they enrich your life? Do they give you the love that we all look for in our lives? Have a good think about it. If not then maybe it's time to rethink what you want for yourself and what you offer others.

Love will conquer all.

I hope this makes sense. I have trouble putting what is in my head down on paper (or screen)

Phew I'd love a beer!


Dave.

[nigelr]

Folks, times are tough.
Unfortunately they are going to get tougher.
Keep your life real, and your values pure, and don't get sucked in to the materialist/consumer/TV/advertising phscholology/ roundabout.
Truly, "All you need is love"
Corny I know, but if you live your life around giving and receiving love rather than being obsessed by the aquisition of money and material possessions, you're at least gonna die a whole lot happier!
Cheers!

[kingtin]

I hope this makes sense. I have trouble putting what is in my head down on paper (or screen)

Dave.


I think you did a bloody good job this time, Dave.

kev

[littlejim]

HB,
you'll be happy to know it doesn't apply out in the country.
A few years back I had to drive a roo smashed car from WA across the Nullarbor to Canberra (RACWA didn't get NRMA approval for the repairs while we did the hire car trip like they said they would).
Some where near Murray Bridge i topped up the oil. Abot 10 KMs further on I realised I hadn't put the oil filler cap back on. I stopped, opened the bonnet and tried to recall whether I put it somewhere under the bonnet or left it at the garage.

Two local teenagers on their way to footy practice passed the other way, saw the damaged front, stopped, did a 'U'ey and came back to see if I needed help. One spotted the filler cap for me.
You have to give up the big smoke to get that sort of response.

[RayDeR]

G'day!

Its not a bad rule to treat others as you want to be treated.

Sadly when we import culture whether in people or on TV/movies we are not only importing food, song and dance. We are importing other lifestyles which are not the "Aussie way".

Why are/were Aussie's known for mateship? Because it stood out in a world where mateship was an unknown.

Ray De R

[kingtin]

G'day!

Its not a bad rule to treat others as you want to be treated.

Sadly when we import culture whether in people or on TV/movies we are not only importing food, song and dance. We are importing other lifestyles which are not the "Aussie way".

Why are/were Aussie's known for mateship? Because it stood out in a world where mateship was an unknown.

Ray De R

Is that a reality, or a myth? "Mateship" has been plugged time and time again as the "Aussie ideal" but really?................do you actually experience it in real life?

How many threads have we seen where folk were complaining about ramp rage and such? Sorry!................as much as I love living in OZ, I don't kid myself that my next door neighbour is just as likely to shit on me as the polly that I didn't vote for. The Aussie "ocker" is fast disappearing.

Aussies don't have the monopoly on caring for their fellow man..........what they have is the ideal of thinking that they really do care about each other when in fact all they care about is illustrating the Aussie ideal of "mateship". If they really cared, there wouldn't be as many homeless or as much child abuse.

I'm not aiming this at individuals, I'm aiming it at those who are blinded to the very real problems that Australia must confront. You cannot live in a "dreamtime" where all is hunky dory because we have a common bond. The reality is,................there is no common bond........it's been eroded. The ideal of mateship is being eroded and diluted by the intrusion of other culture's values and standards.........be it music or whatever.

What I illustrate is not racist, but merely fact.........white anglo saxon values are being eroded. If you aren't from that background, then it will be of no concern, but if you are, then don't expect Aussie life to reflect the values and standards of the past. Take what you can, while you can, and f**K the future seems to be the order of the day.

As Rayder says "Its not a bad rule to treat others as you want to be treated."

Unfortunately, it's not how all other people/races see life, and they would rather grab and enrich, while the opportunity is there, and bollock* to how others would want to be treated.

kev

[RayDeR]

G'day Kev !

What you wrote about other people and other races is what I meant by " Sadly when we import culture whether in people or on TV/movies we are not only importing food, song and dance. We are importing other lifestyles which are not the "Aussie way".

Ray De R

[PinHead]

G'day Kev !

What you wrote about other people and other races is what I meant by " Sadly when we import culture whether in people or on TV/movies we are not only importing food, song and dance. We are importing other lifestyles which are not the "Aussie way".

Ray De R

what is the "aussie way"..near enough, she'll be right mate ? Pull a sickie? Go and get pissed?

always wondered what exactly is that mythical thing..the "aussie way"..gets mentioned a lot but the way I see it, it is usually used as a cop out.

[Mod11]

You WILL find that mateship, the aussie way and a stand alone ‘ developing ‘ culture that you will not find anywhere else in the world. Trouble is the general public ( we ) are blinded by the ” in your face “ attitudes and discriminations played out in the media. The media is what drives this and don’t be fooled into believing otherwise.

Let us also understand that our developing culture and mateship and aussie way grows as we as individuals grow. Our attitude as 18 y/o’s changes dramatically to when we are 30 and 50 and so on. For every non- aussie thing you see a 18y/o do, you will find 10 aussie things from an older Aussie.

What you will find is the underlying influence of the media ( and access to media and information ) on our younger generation and THAT has to be addressed not by the Government, or Media or Councilors, it has to be the sole responsibility of Parents, sorry but this is fact. We are a product of our parents and you are the person your parents produced and educated in areas such as life, responsibilities, manners, commonsense and compassion. We are of course responsible for our own actions and as such, much accept any consequence that arises from this and be prepared to “ grow “ from these experiences. If we fail to learn , our parents have failed, we have failed.

This is not a blame game, it is simply a matter of fact. As a person reaching the wrong end of life, I personally have experienced a change in attitude in myself and others around me. Sure the ‘ ferrets ‘ of this world our around, but I am finding more and more ‘ good ‘ people, mates and friends. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you holds true and you will be rewarded in kind. Try not to focus on the negative as there will always be the “ tall poppy chopper downers “ and “ ferrets “, these are the result of poor parenting and or the sheer lack of understanding of their fellow man. IMO no one is the result ‘ of the system “. Again IMO only. Remain positive and seek the good people, notice the right thing to do and follow your heart.

To site a perfect example of the Aussie Way is to simply look at a team sport.. footy for example, bash each other senseless for 80 minutes and then shake hands, well done mate, fancy a beer. This does NOT happen in other countries, in general.

Any adverse situation will bring to the surface, the aussie way. What is the Aussie Way… well, you know if you have it, you recognize it in others and can tell if it is creeping up on you. Let’s face it, we are a very young country and have not really developed a culture, but we have developed something that no other nation has and that is an ‘ aura “, this is being spread internationally by the many visitors to our great country. Not the scenery, not the architecture not the animals, but the “ People “. I hear it time and time again. We probably do not recognize it ourselves as we are ‘ living ‘ it and living with it. Overall we are good people and tend to help our fellow Aussies. Which probably leads us to the question of what is an Aussie ?

Good question, and I am not qualified to answer that on a factual basis, only an emotional basis. Aussies are what we are, semi racist, skeptics, proud, larrikins, story tellers, hard workers, hard players, travelers, non-comforming, devoted family folk, black white and brindle. We are, what we are. !!!! Let’s not try to change this, just accept it. To find out the real answer, ask yourself one question…. “ who do you want in your corner when the chips are down or the odds against you ? “.

In the words of a longtime Ausfisher… “ you cannot measure friendship, but everyone needs a quantity “.

chilli

[manchild]

I tell you the aussie way Greg.Step1: -confront a bloke on the ramp ,step2: -when he tell you to bugger off-do that and walk away like a pussy step3:throw snapperhead at the bloke and hit him while he tows a child on a tube, step4:runaway like a girl.Not my opinion ,but it seems like to get you a pat on the back and some mention of the "good old aussie spirit".
George

[kingtin]

Nice one George! ;) ;D

Looks like I'll never be part of the Aussie way................I haven't yet managed a snapper with a big enough head to chuck...........If I chucked a shovelly head would that count? ;D

kev

[manchild]

Nice one George! ;) ;D

Looks like I'll never be part of the Aussie way................I haven't yet managed a snapper with a big enough head to chuck...........If I chucked a shovelly head would that count? ;D

kev
I wouldnt know,as everyone here knows im not big on catching fish,let alone big ones.;D The biggest fish i usually catch are hardiheads in the castnet.I could try headbutt someone with one of the hardiheads heads while its on my forehead.Would that count ?:P
George

[kingtin]

I wouldnt know,as everyone here knows im not big on catching fish,let alone big ones.;D The biggest fish i usually catch are hardiheads in the castnet.I could try headbutt someone with one of the hardiheads heads while its on my forehead.Would that count ?:P
George


No! Sorry George, it has to be thrown............and from a safe distance..............you could just write something on a website somewhere though............. saying that you'd done it ;) ;D

kev

[manchild]

That last line is gold.May i add karatewriting?
George

[kingtin]

sorry but this is fact. We are a product of our parents and you are the person your parents produced and educated in areas such as life, responsibilities, manners, commonsense and compassion.

chilli

Mate, I understand the gist of your response but this is exactly the point I was trying to make..............the above may ring true for our generation but it doesn't hold water today.

How many hours a day do littlies actually spend with their parents? To my way of thinking, a large number are the product of day care centres and how are those day care centres staffed? In the main, they're generally staffed with very young carers whose standards and values are likely nothing at all akin to the child's parents. I'm not knocking the day care profession as a whole, or inferring that staff's values may be suss, but just that they are likely different to the parents. Nowadays it seems that day care is indispensable to a large number of families and it is carers who are raising kids, not mums and dads. Those carers, despite their "professionalism" do not have a vested interest in anything other than producing an income for themselves........they may well love kids, but it will not be them who reap the (domestic) rewards of those kid's future behaviours........ It will be the parents who have to pick up the pieces. These are the most formative years of a child's life............will we, in years to come, have quantified research showing just how damaging "farming out" our kids at those early years has become?

When the parents do pick up their kids (tired), after work, how much time is actually spent interacting with the child before they have to go to bed?

There is research that states that in adolescence, the biggest influence on kids is not the parents, but the kid's peers (other kids).

It seems that nowadays, it's the family "interaction" that is lacking. Not all families are this way, but it does seem to be becoming more prevalent and I would hazard a guess that it is indeed "the norm".

Society is influencing kids, whereas it should be kids (as they grow) influencing society. They are bombarded with peer pressure and media pressure, and sadly, the least influence on a substantial amount of them, is the parents. They are not, as you say, a product of their parents, but they are a product of the lack of parents/parenting. Is this because of the "pace" of society? Is it because nowadays, two incomes are needed for a family just to survive? Only the individual parents can answer that truthfully.

kev

[kingtin]

That last line is gold.May i add karatewriting?
George

Feel free. Mon Brave ;) :)

kev

[disorderly]

No! Sorry George, it has to be thrown............and from a safe distance..............you could just write something on a website somewhere though............. saying that you'd done it ;) ;D

kev

You have not been posting much lately,Kev.
Though its good to see that at least you have been keeping up to date in your efforts to learn the "aussie way"http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/wink.gifhttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/rolleyes.gif.

Scott

[kingtin]

You have not been posting much lately,Kev.
Though its good to see that at least you have been keeping up to date in your efforts to learn the "aussie way"http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/wink.gifhttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/rolleyes.gif.

Scott

Been nursing the crook deckie Scott...........................I sat at the foot of her bed with a stubby in me hand telling her to shut her whingeing pommy gob.............does that mean that I'm learning good? ;D

kev

[disorderly]

I tell you the aussie way Greg.Step1: -confront a bloke on the ramp ,step2: -when he tell you to bugger off-do that and walk away like a pussy step3:throw snapperhead at the bloke and hit him while he tows a child on a tube, step4:runaway like a girl.Not my opinion ,but it seems like to get you a pat on the back and some mention of the "good old aussie spirit".
George

yes George,thats about my thoughts on that issue also.
I think we are a little full of ourselves if we really think we are anything special....other than what we really are ....an isolated fledgling convict colony that started as an inhospitable island where the refuse of other societies was dumped.

Dont get me wrong or think I am saying all Aussies are bad.....just that some are better than othershttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/wink.gifhttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/smiley.gif.


Scott

.

[disorderly]

Been nursing the crook deckie Scott...........................I sat at the foot of her bed with a stubby in me hand telling her to shut her whingeing pommy gob.............does that mean that I'm learning good? ;D

kev

Sounds like you are getting there,kev.
Now you just need to call her a dumb sheila as you ask her to get you a beer and then whinge that it isn't cold enough and she was too slow getting it and that she is needs to move from in front of the footy on the telly..http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/rolleyes.gif.(and then burp your approval).http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/smiley.gif

[kingtin]

Sounds like you are getting there,kev.
Now you just need to call her a dumb sheila as you ask her to get you a beer and then whinge that it isn't cold enough and she was too slow getting it and that she is needs to move from in front of the footy on the telly..http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/rolleyes.gif.(and then burp your approval).http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/smiley.gif

I've done that mate..............I'm just off to the ER to get me head stitched.............I think the deckie will be ocker long before me;D

kev

[Bluefin475]

Horsey well done mate i to try to lend a hand where i can...all i say is WHY NOT, and i know if i do it some one they will do it to me... (i hope)

[FNQCairns]

Here is country largely devoid of the medieval morals that regulation and our government spawn with the quiet consent of most. Imagine launching a boat in this country.

We get what we give, we are animals first and above all, Holland is an interesting read if only to be embarrassed by what WE actually are when we call ourselves Australian.

To imagine the change in ideology needed to turn us back 20years how could we now regulate that! (rolls eyes)

Stolen from the net, there is heaps out there.

"The Dutch system of crime and punishment, that rarely makes a big deal out of petty crime (like theft), is responsible for a society amazingly free of violence. The Dutch are truly shocked when there is a violent crime or a murder. That's because there is little reason to commit violent acts. Indeed, often the law itself is to blame in other countries where violence is committed to commit or cover up lesser crimes. The Dutch have discovered the amazing truth that if you don't make criminals out of people for personal vices, they won't be compelled to break more serious laws or be violent to keep their vices secret."

cheers fnq

[kingtin]

Here is country largely devoid of the medieval morals that regulation our government is spawning with the quiet consent of most. Imagine launching a boat in this country.

We get what we give, we are animals first and above all, Holland is an interesting read if only to be embarrassed by what WE actually are when we call ourselves Australian.

To imagine the change in ideology needed to turn us back 20years how could we now regulate that! (rolls eyes)

Stolen from the net, there is heaps out there.

"The Dutch system of crime and punishment, that rarely makes a big deal out of petty crime (like theft), is responsible for a society amazingly free of violence. The Dutch are truly shocked when there is a violent crime or a murder. That's because there is little reason to commit violent acts. Indeed, often the law itself is to blame in other countries where violence is committed to commit or cover up lesser crimes. The Dutch have discovered the amazing truth that if you don't make criminals out of people for personal vices, they won't be compelled to break more serious laws or be violent to keep their vices secret."

cheers fnq

And OTOH, Zero tolerance works just as well. As for "petty crime (like theft)" being petty, ask the victim who gets home to find all their electrical goods missing, if that is considered "petty" in their eyes?

kev

[mad_pierre06]

I'll endeavour to avoid dragging out my soapbox as it is my belief that a great deal of the ills entranched today have much to do with politically driven ideologies. John Howard wanted to lessen the ALP voter base, so he (along with the help of big business) engineered an employment base which was extremely casual based, and totally expendable. Cutting of penalty rates, and awards. Cutting back on holiday pay so there is less to pay for a week away even once a year. Encouraging and conditioning workers to care only for themselves, rather than the working group as a whole. Less and less permanent jobs, which leads to less employment and financial security. The means by which houses became an investment opportunity rather than an affordable right for someone who could afford to buy or even rent. And he played to and encouraged this country's voters as a whole to disregard the plight of others and to think only of ourselves, rather than the other people of this country as a whole. Think Tampa, $3.50 a week tax cuts etc etc. Think of how the number of homeless youth in this 'prosperous' country of ours has risen to 22,000 on any given night.

As alluded to previously, seven day a week, 12 hours a day shopping, which means that the family unit as we knew it no longer exists unless somebody is prepared to bite the bullet and attempt to live a five day week lifestyle. And just try and have a weekend these days. Is it any wonder that the security and stability of our society's base group is crumbling.

The Aussie Way is not a myth. But it only existed at the level of your average person who has lived at the base level who found that through being there for his mates guaranteed that there would always be someone to help him pick up the pieces when life got tough. And vice versa. It has rarely existed at the upper management and political levels, where self interest has always ruled. Stereoyping I know, there have been some exceptions. But even this support network is being undermined, and in some ways deliberately by our political masters who have sought to divide and conquer so that we would not seek to oust them for destroying those values many of us have held dear.

Having said this, life is still good. I have found in this forum, and another called badlightstoppedplay, that there are still many people out there who do hold strong values. Who will always be there to help people whom in some cases they have never met. I have found at my church since becoming a Christian that there are people who will, and have give you their last dollar.

We can ensure that these values are passed on to others by continuing to live to them as best we can. And teach our kids through our own actions that these values are to be treasured and protected at ALL cost!

In spite of the grubs who are many, life is still good with those who make it that way.

[FNQCairns]

And OTOH, Zero tolerance works just as well. As for "petty crime (like theft)" being petty, ask the victim who gets home to find all their electrical goods missing, if that is considered "petty" in their eyes?

kev

Yes it does! and so does a gun toting populace! because the need to spawn blanket after blanket of social individual rights/freedom robbing regulation is no longer needed in comparison to here.

I know which of the options I would prefer, I would prefer the one where I have worse than a gold lotto's chance of coming home to miss my electronics and all done with laws that sacrifice nobody to achieve it.

cheers fnq

[tigermullet]

I'll endeavour to avoid dragging out my soapbox as it is my belief that a great deal of the ills entranched today have much to do with politically driven ideologies. John Howard wanted to lessen the ALP voter base, so he (along with the help of big business) engineered an employment base which was extremely casual based, and totally expendable. Cutting of penalty rates, and awards. Cutting back on holiday pay so there is less to pay for a week away even once a year. Encouraging and conditioning workers to care only for themselves, rather than the working group as a whole. Less and less permanent jobs, which leads to less employment and financial security. The means by which houses became an investment opportunity rather than an affordable right for someone who could afford to buy or even rent. And he played to and encouraged this country's voters as a whole to disregard the plight of others and to think only of ourselves, rather than the other people of this country as a whole. Think Tampa, $3.50 a week tax cuts etc etc. Think of how the number of homeless youth in this 'prosperous' country of ours has risen to 22,000 on any given night.

As alluded to previously, seven day a week, 12 hours a day shopping, which means that the family unit as we knew it no longer exists unless somebody is prepared to bite the bullet and attempt to live a five day week lifestyle. And just try and have a weekend these days. Is it any wonder that the security and stability of our society's base group is crumbling.

The Aussie Way is not a myth. But it only existed at the level of your average person who has lived at the base level who found that through being there for his mates guaranteed that there would always be someone to help him pick up the pieces when life got tough. And vice versa. It has rarely existed at the upper management and political levels, where self interest has always ruled. Stereoyping I know, there have been some exceptions. But even this support network is being undermined, and in some ways deliberately by our political masters who have sought to divide and conquer so that we would not seek to oust them for destroying those values many of us have held dear.

Having said this, life is still good. I have found in this forum, and another called badlightstoppedplay, that there are still many people out there who do hold strong values. Who will always be there to help people whom in some cases they have never met. I have found at my church since becoming a Christian that there are people who will, and have give you their last dollar.

We can ensure that these values are passed on to others by continuing to live to them as best we can. And teach our kids through our own actions that these values are to be treasured and protected at ALL cost!

In spite of the grubs who are many, life is still good with those who make it that way.

Very good Pierre! I agree with your thoughts and assessment of politically driven ideologies. It was spot on. Tragic too - I never thought that Australia would become so much like the USA and their dog eat dog economic ways.

Not that I am a 'Christian' - I doubt that we will ever be in agreement on that issue. My wife usually begins her description of my belief as 'self-serving' mixed in with lots of other words like, 'Lazy', 'Beer swilling' 'Boat mad idiot, fish-aholic' before she really gets wound up.;D

[alphas]

It may be just me,but I reckon fishos are some of the best blokes/girls to know.As a noobie to ausfish,I admire the way people are responding to this thread.

[For Steve]

This is a great thread. As someone who is often mistrusting of others, it's good to know there are considerate and respectful people out there. I've been burnt before by greedy people pushing their own agendas with disregard to casualties along the way.

Society has changed so much in my 36 years and not for the better. The family unit has taken a back seat to big mortgages, big salaries, big TV's, big cars, etc. I want to be remembered for being a good father, husband, relative and friend. If this means having modest possessions and a low bank balance, then that's a price I'm willing to pay.

Compromise is not a dirty word.

Good luck to you all
Brad

[Scalem]

This is a great thread. As someone who is often mistrusting of others, it's good to know there are considerate and respectful people out there. I've been burnt before by greedy people pushing their own agendas with disregard to casualties along the way.

Society has changed so much in my 36 years and not for the better. The family unit has taken a back seat to big mortgages, big salaries, big TV's, big cars, etc. I want to be remembered for being a good father, husband, relative and friend. If this means having modest possessions and a low bank balance, then that's a price I'm willing to pay.

Compromise is not a dirty word.

Good luck to you all
Brad

Can't agree more Brad!



What can you do but make the best of the circumstance you are in, and look after your family, priority # 1.

There are pressures that most of us bow to at one point or another (i'm guilty!!), and the biggest is materialism, so much so the reserve bank/ government feel they need to control societies' spending by increasing interest rates. We gotta have the latest and greatest and put it on credit if it means our disposable income can't support it, so the financial burden of paying bills becomes too much and people can become aggressive over their hard earned dollars. Whenever money is involved, usually brings the worste out in people and at this particular time, we are all suffering to varying degrees because of fuel prices, interest rates, changes in policies, because we are losing the ability to aquire what we want more than asking ourselves about what we really need.

Trouble is that my household has applied the last principle of only getting what we need while we raise two great kids, and paying a fortune for their education. The optus cable guy was insulted when we asked him to hook cable TV to a television that does not even have RCA connectors, only coax. It's the same TV we have had for the last 25 years!! ;D ;D I have always told my kids that I don't care about their academic acheivements as much as I care about how they turn out as people. If you become so qualified with masters degrees, diplomas and become the prime minister of Australia, but fail to be a nice person, you have acheived nothing!!!!!! Last years graduating year 12 students from our school were the finest bunch of Kids I have had the pleasure of getting to know, so it is not all doom and gloom, amoungst juvenile delinquency theres a heap of good happening in the younger generation, and I am truely inspired by them. The older generations of which I am a member have to maintain our end of the bargain and mentor them, which is sadly lacking in many ways. But it all starts with you and me.;)

Scalem

[disorderly]

Society has changed so much in my 36 years and not for the better.
Brad

The good old days huh....Speaking of the Aussie spirit...
Tell that to my 88 year old Grandmother who had her first child out of wedlock as a teenager,was disowned by her family and church and ostracized by the society around her.
It was only thanks to my grandpa's ability to buck societies trends and marry her and help raise her "bastard" child as well as several of their own that afforded her the love and dignity she deserved.
All to often in the "good ole days"society was moulded by archaic preconceptions and the need to keep up appearances.Many of societies(and peoples) problems were simply swept under the carpet and were not spoken of.
There is good and bad in society today as there was generations ago.
There was also plenty of materialistic people years ago....maybe just not the ever expanding range of products and sophisticated marketing techniques of today...as well as the fact that we have just been through a pretty rich 10 or so year period of sustained growth that has increased the wealth of the middle and upper class a great deal.
As for crime...well I know very little about that and only see the sensationalized reports on a 6 or 8 different news reports daily...http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/undecided.gif.
In Scalem's post above I believe he has provided in essence what should be the aussie way or anybodies way for a matter of fact.
That being...be the best you can for yourself and your family,be content with what you have and treat others as you yourself would like to be treated....

Scott

[nigelr]

Zero tolerence eh, such as practiced under Islamic Sharia (sp) law, perhaps?
Or the Old Testament 'eye for an eye' approach?
In some instances of severe crime, who would be willing to carry out the punishment?
Very complex and vexacious problem. Have we as a society come to grips with this issue {crime and punishment} yet?
Common theme, perhaps it all starts in the family home, but then as Bob Dylan said "when you ain't got nothin', you got nothin' to lose".
Works for self-respect as well as material goods.
Cheers to all.

[johnny roger]

Here here horseboy! i couldn't agree with you more. and i also have pondered the question about society. especially if you have seen the movie with Mel gibson, set in the WWII days when he is transported into the future. he could not understand what had happened to society. people were so rude, men beating up on women, kids running around with guns etc. it all adds to the attitude, and its getting worse.
John

[kingtin]

Zero tolerence eh, such as practiced under Islamic Sharia (sp) law, perhaps?
Or the Old Testament 'eye for an eye' approach?
In some instances of severe crime, who would be willing to carry out the punishment?
Very complex and vexacious problem. Have we as a society come to grips with this issue {crime and punishment} yet?
Common theme, perhaps it all starts in the family home, but then as Bob Dylan said "when you ain't got nothin', you got nothin' to lose".
Works for self-respect as well as material goods.
Cheers to all.

Nigel, I am not advocating the New York Model here, where it is well known that the police abused their powers and that they had a statutory obligation to utilise pre-determined action or charges.

More like the Hartlepool (UK) model where the police authority adopted a stance that the type of action to be taken was discretionary, but that there should at least be some action. eg in 58 cases of youth and young men "hanging about" a shopping mall and intimidating passers by and otherwise making a nuisance of themselves, only 28 were arrested as they were "known to police" and in the rest of the cases, a letter was sent to the parents advising them of their child's behaviours and warning them that they would be held responsible for any future disturbances.

The problem today is that kids feel that they are immune from any consequences regarding minor offences and the more that they are allowed to get away, with (the minor offences) the worst their behaviour will become (major offences). That isn't psychobabble, it's well established fact.

kev

[For Steve]

I have always told my kids that I don't care about their academic acheivements as much as I care about how they turn out as people.

The older generations of which I am a member have to maintain our end of the bargain and mentor them, which is sadly lacking in many ways. But it all starts with you and me.;)

Scalem

I'm with you mate. It's up to the adults to take responsibility and lead by example. The children who impress others the most are those who are polite and considerate. Good manners will get you a long way.


All to often in the "good ole days"society was moulded by archaic preconceptions and the need to keep up appearances.Many of societies(and peoples) problems were simply swept under the carpet and were not spoken of.
There is good and bad in society today as there was generations ago.

Scott

This is a good point Scott. We've certainly become more tolerant and accepting of many issues. A good idea to remember this.

[For Steve]

The problem today is that kids feel that they are immune from any consequences regarding minor offences and the more that they are allowed to get away, with (the minor offences) the worst their behaviour will become (major offences). That isn't psychobabble, it's well established fact.

kev

I wish I knew how to deal with this. I've taught and coached teenagers and young adults and behaviour management and discipline are real issues. In so many instances, the consequences aren't significant enough to have any effect. They simply don't seem to care.

[kingtin]

I wish I knew how to deal with this. I've taught and coached teenagers and young adults and behaviour management and discipline are real issues. In so many instances, the consequences aren't significant enough to have any effect. They simply don't seem to care.

Steve, I've 5 boys of my own, and had upwards of 50 foster kids through my home. I've also worked with kids through cadet forces, education authority and Duke of Edinburgh Scheme for over 30 yrs.

It's a simplification, but what I found to be the major solution is to somehow endow them with self-esteem and self-respect. Through that, they learn to respect others. If they don't respect themselves, then there's little chance of them respecting others. The other necessity that somehow goes neglected is the teaching of empathy. It should come naturally but in many cases it doesn't, and you have to (somehow) physically put the kids in other folks' shows.

St Patricks School at Shornecliffe has an excellent scheme that has kids from grade 10 upwards working on soup kitchens and with other charities.

Expeditions based on endurance (competing with self), team work etc teaches self discipline and instills respect for self and others.

Years ago, I asked myself why so many kids wanted to put a uniform on 2 nights a week, and at weekends, and subject themselves to drill, assault courses, and other demanding disciplines. It was because they were seeking that which they did not have........structure and stability. In many, but not all, they were seeking the boundaries and discipline that they didn't get at home. With those boundaries, (despite their many objections to them) they felt safe. They knew exactly what was expected of them and they knew that their mates were on a level playing field with them. They were a "family" who could work together for the common good.

I could go on and on for hours but suffice to say, I have encountered so many "lost souls" in my life who have further enriched my life by their ability to "bounce back". Many of them have come from deprived and loveless backgrounds and have striven to overcome their "handicaps". Kids of 12 to 18 yrs of age who would put some adults to shame. I remain forever grateful to them for showing me that they, and many of those who do not make it, are not necessarily "bad people" but simply those who haven't received the appropriate guidance. These are they on who our future depends, and to whom we must give guidance, and not leave it to the media or other detrimental influences.

Look at the size of some of these little fellers and gals :D After a year of training every single weekend, they beat some of the best, the world's Military Police Forces could offer. I betcha not one of em has ever indulged in showing a lack of respect to their elders or peers, because they know who they are, what they can achieve if they put their minds to it, and that others care for them, even if that caring is not found at home.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b182/bidkev/Winners.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b182/bidkev/Winnerspic.jpg

kev

[For Steve]

Steve, I've 5 boys of my own, and had upwards of 50 foster kids through my home. I've also worked with kids through cadet forces, education authority and Duke of Edinburgh Scheme for over 30 yrs.

It's a simplification, but what I found to be the major solution is to somehow endow them with self-esteem and self-respect. Through that, they learn to respect others. If they don't respect themselves, then there's little chance of them respecting others. The other necessity that somehow goes neglected is the teaching of empathy. It should come naturally but in many cases it doesn't, and you have to (somehow) physically put the kids in other folks' shows.

St Patricks School at Shornecliffe has an excellent scheme that has kids from grade 10 upwards working on soup kitchens and with other charities.

Expeditions based on endurance (competing with self), team work etc teaches self discipline and instills respect for self and others.

Years ago, I asked myself why so many kids wanted to put a uniform on 2 nights a week, and at weekends, and subject themselves to drill, assault courses, and other demanding disciplines. It was because they were seeking that which they did not have........structure and stability. In many, but not all, they were seeking the boundaries and discipline that they didn't get at home. With those boundaries, (despite their many objections to them) they felt safe. They knew exactly what was expected of them and they knew that their mates were on a level playing field with them. They were a "family" who could work together for the common good.

kev

Kev, thank you. Your insight and experiences are truly admirable. It's so true - self-esteem and self-respect leads to respect for others and empathy ties it all together. It sometimes isn't easy to promote this in others but we do our best. We're always learning ourselves.

Even with my 17 month old son, I notice how discipline and boundaries provide structure and stability to sculpt his behaviour. It's hard to describe but it's there.

Brad

[nigelr]

Problem is Steve, its too easy to have kids and too hard to raise them!
Parenthood is the most under-appreciated, under-resourced, downright difficult undertaking imaginable.
IMHO the mass media with its consume or die psychology, makes a difficult task impossible for many people, to the point where its easier to just say 'yes' to evry demand, right or wrong.
To some, values like honesty, dignity, tolerance, compassion mean nothing compared to aquiring the latest bling to make one appear to be something one isn't.
Things like family life and marriage are thrown by the wayside in the quest for more and more materiel and status.
Media stars and sports people as role models? Get real! Many are nothing more than spoilt brats.
The other side of the coin are those that are disenfranchised. What do they have to lose? They express their resentment by anti-social behaviour, its not really that difficult to relate to.
It's a mess friends, but we can't give up eh!
Personally I was incredibly lucky to meet some unbelieveably wonderful men in my later teen years, IMHO it is no coincidence that they were also the most humble people I ever met. They were all WW2 vets, but I never heard them mention their experiences, nor did I ever hear them belittle another person.
My God, they were REAL heros, and to think our community has many people like them, unheralded and unappreciated, who would make wonderful role models and mentors to anyone.
Great to have you aboard Kev, your insight gained from such comprehensive experience is beyond price.
Cheers.

[kingtin]

The other side of the coin are those that are disenfranchised. What do they have to lose? They express their resentment by anti-social behaviour, its not really that difficult to relate to.



A point that hasn't been raised and you are spot on Nigel.

Being disenfranchised is a symptom of so much in our society.............many folk feel that they really don't have the "voice" to change things or make a difference. Kids feel their parents aren't listening, the man in the street feels the pollies aren't listening. At one end of the scale they become cynical or resentful, and take their own action where they can to improve their lot. At the other end, they actively rebel and ignore the laws placed on them by the family/society that has disenfranchised them. Just think how us fishos feel about Moreton bay closures..........Disenfranchised doesn't even come close.

Simply put, many folk nowadays feel powerless as to what may befall them. They plan judiciously for their future and a couple of years down the track they're met with an interest rate that although they should have foreseen, and which is due to the capitalist cycle, they never foresaw as being so big, and they blame the broken promises of pollies. They see their hardships, not as self-inflicted, but as the result of life's cruelties. They become despondent, self-centred, cynical, and in some cases downright anti-social and cruel. Many of those hardships are a result not of stupidity but simply a lack of education in life's ups and downs. They in fact become disenfranchised in part, due to not facing the realities of a world that requires one to be thoroughly educated in the ways of that world, if one is to live a "wholesome" life.

To illustrate with a little bug bear of mine ;D When the kids come home from school with a ingredients list for their cookery lesson.........is it ever anything like cottage pie, steak and kidney pie, irish stew, or similar? No, it's something bloody stupid like Caponata requiring a lb of aubergines (likely about $12 kilo) a lb of courgettes. olives and a heap of herbs and other ingredients that cost mum and dad about 30 to 40 bucks for a veggie based meal that no bugger will eat. The unused herbs would likely never get used again. What is it with these teachers? Do they live on another planet where these foodstuffs are free for the picking? So mum and dad feel disenfranchised because they haven't the power to say "no". They know that their kid will be shown up if he doesn't arrive at the lesson with these ingredients so pressure gets put on their family budget to provide those ingredients. The kid feels disenfranchised because he knows he's gonna be expected to at least attempt to eat, what has cost his parents so much.

What am I waffling on about? ;D Well, I'm just trying to illustrate how little everyday things that we are powerless to prevent, can really bugger up our day if we are not consulted. If the parent teacher's committee had any brains they would see how this kind of cookery lesson isn't practical, is counter productive, and breeds resentment.................over a simple little thing like a meal. Just think how the big issues impact on us.

As has been said by many others here, we need to get back to basics. More consultation with the public/parents. More practical learning based on facing and dealing with, the realities of life. Less political correctness where it is the "in thing" to empower our kids............sorry.............young adults. They should be proven responsible and deserving enough to be given that power, and if they do feel disenfranchised, they can then ask themselves if it is due to their own ability or lack of it. If they think, and can prove, that they are not deserving of a raw deal, and should be empowered, then and only then, do they have a right to complain/feel bitter/angry.

"Back to Basics" should be the slogan for the future

kev

[For Steve]

Back to basics - I like it. There's nothing wrong with sitting on an old chair, watching a small tv and eating leftover stew.

I can't help but think this feeling of being disenfranchised is often linked to the lack of a sense of belonging to something meaningful. Something important you can influence for the greater good including yourself. I can see this being a factor in my youth and even today to a lesser degree.

As I grow older and hopefully wiser, I'm mindful of not becoming one of those grumpy old men who complain about the youth today. We need to remember that there are so many wonderful young adults out there; some of them just don't know it yet.

Brad

[nigelr]

True what you say about disenfranchised Brad.
Poverty is also very good at causing people to feel this way.
I think more and more people are feeling the harsh grip of economic reality with soaring petrol and food prices, most particularly those with school or university age children. Unfortunately poverty can be generational, like its opposite at the other end of the financial scale, inherited wealth.
That old truism 'the poor man pays twice' ie being unable to buy higher quality and therefore longer lasting or better performing goods, shows the economic 8 ball many parents are behind these days, being both forced to work harder and longer hours just to make ends meet.
Very, very tiring on minds, bodies and souls, especially when there are young children or teenagers at home with their own requirements and demands to be met.
Cheers.

[kingtin]

Back to basics - I like it. There's nothing wrong with sitting on an old chair, watching a small tv and eating leftover stew.

I can't help but think this feeling of being disenfranchised is often linked to the lack of a sense of belonging to something meaningful. Something important you can influence for the greater good including yourself. I can see this being a factor in my youth and even today to a lesser degree.

As I grow older and hopefully wiser, I'm mindful of not becoming one of those grumpy old men who complain about the youth today. We need to remember that there are so many wonderful young adults out there; some of them just don't know it yet.

Brad


Back to basics - I like it. There's nothing wrong with sitting on an old chair, watching a small tv and eating leftover stew.

I can't help but think this feeling of being disenfranchised is often linked to the lack of a sense of belonging to something meaningful. Something important you can influence for the greater good including yourself. I can see this being a factor in my youth and even today to a lesser degree.

As I grow older and hopefully wiser, I'm mindful of not becoming one of those grumpy old men who complain about the youth today. We need to remember that there are so many wonderful young adults out there; some of them just don't know it yet.

Brad

You're right Steve. For life to be meaningful, we all need a "significant other" in our lives be that a person or a cause. Some folk never have that, sadly.

And you're right, there's plenty of great kids in abundance, kids giving their free time for live saving, St John's Ambulance and other causes........we must not focus on the negative

As for being a grumpy old man..........I am mindful of that, although I often lapse into one. ;D I'm a great lover of music and often refer to it in my thoughts. I'm reminded of a song that I only learned since coming here..........a song by Paddy Schmidt which has the perfect melody to it when I hear the Dubliners sing it. It's how I'd like to go in my old age........."easy"..........not whingeing about missed opportunities, (although I'm a pom). ;DThis type of song, and others such as "The band Played Waltzing Matilda should be compulsory listening in our schools.

A simple man.........just resigned to his life and fate:

For nearly sixty years I�'ve been a cocky,
Of droughts and fires and floods
I've lived through plenty,
This country's dust and mud
have seen my tears and blood,
But it's nearly over now and now I'm easy.

I married a fine girl when I was twenty,
She died in giving birth
when she was thirty,
No flying doctor then
just a gentle old black gen,
But it's nearly over now and now I'm easy.

She left me with two sons and a daughter,
And a bone dry farm whose soil
cried out for water,
Though me care was rough and ready
they grew up fine and steady,
But it's nearly over now and now I�'m easy.

Me daughter married young
and went her own ways,
My sons lie buried by the Burma railway,
So on this land I've made me home
I've carried on alone,
But it's nearly over now and now I'm easy.

Oh city folks these days despise the cocky,
Saying with subsidies
and dole we've had it easy,
But there's no drought or starving stock
on the sewered suburban block,
But it's nearly over now and now I'm easy

kev

[kingtin]

That old truism 'the poor man pays twice' ie being unable to buy higher quality and therefore longer lasting or better performing goods, shows the economic 8 ball many parents are behind these days, being both forced to work harder and longer hours just to make ends meet.



"Pays twice" in more ways than one Nigel. If you live your working life poor, then your retirement is also lived in poverty. Having a pension that revolves around monetary contributions is appalling, although I don't know another scheme that would be acceptable to the public at large. By all means allow greater pensions via greater contributions but don't punish those who work hard but have little left for providing for the future.

If you earn small, then your contributions will be small and your pension small. A scheme that recognises the length of one's working life/hours, would be more appropriate.

If one is working hard, but because of one's background and upbringing they can only work in a low paid job, then they are resigned to struggle daily, and resigned to struggle in old age, and we're back to the disenfranchised again :(

kev

[PinHead]

sorry Kev..but if my kids came home (when they were at school), with a recipe list for a stew I would have rung the school and complained about getting them to prepare a slop...I hate the stuff.

you are only disenfranchised or anything similar if you allow that to happen. You would only feel that way if you require to be part of a social group..I am one of those that is quite happy living my own life and don't go by what others are doing in regards to possessions etc..I buy what I want not what society deems to be the norm. So many people seem to think they need a huge social circle to feel "acceptable".

I have many acquaintances and only a few very good friends...but those friends are valued dearly.

AND...I hate gardening, stews and I am a grumpy old man..even have a shirt to prove it.

Too much seems to be discussed about the rights of kids..when I was one..the only rights were to be housed, clothed, fed and educated and loved..other than that, you made your own fun and copped the kicks in the guts on the way through life but you did not complain you just got on with it..I know I have had an easy life but so do the majority yet they still whinge about it.

bloody bottle of wine has made me all philosophical now.

[kingtin]

sorry Kev..but if my kids came home (when they were at school), with a recipe list for a stew I would have rung the school and complained about getting them to prepare a slop...I hate the stuff.

you are only disenfranchised or anything similar if you allow that to happen. You would only feel that way if you require to be part of a social group..I am one of those that is quite happy living my own life and don't go by what others are doing in regards to possessions etc..I buy what I want not what society deems to be the norm. So many people seem to think they need a huge social circle to feel "acceptable".

I have many acquaintances and only a few very good friends...but those friends are valued dearly.

AND...I hate gardening, stews and I am a grumpy old man..even have a shirt to prove it.

Too much seems to be discussed about the rights of kids..when I was one..the only rights were to be housed, clothed, fed and educated and loved..other than that, you made your own fun and copped the kicks in the guts on the way through life but you did not complain you just got on with it..I know I have had an easy life but so do the majority yet they still whinge about it.

bloody bottle of wine has made me all philosophical now.


I'm with you on the Irish Stew, Greg............just using it as an illustration for points that I am trying to make. eg from the 2001 census:

"Figures for ancestry show more than 6 million Australians claiming to be of English descent and nearly 2 million of Irish. Just under 7 million claim Australian ancestry. Most of those would be of British or Irish descent as well. This means that almost three out of four Australians are of British and Irish origin, including many from New Zealand, South Africa and other English-speaking countries"

Not once has any of my kids come home with a recipe that could considered to be from the UK or traditionally Aussie, such as Damper. Never a basic task such as fetch a fish fillet and we'll show you how to crumb and grill it, or marinade and bake it. "Home Economics" has become "Muticultural Cooking" which requires food items and herbs and spices, that sometimes the kids can't even pronounce the names of, or find in the supermarket. There seems to be an emphasis on accepting other cultures and their practices, as opposed to learning, honouring and maintaining our own, and it's permeated our society, even down into cookery lessons. Home Economics should teach the kids the economics of home keeping, not the diversity/ethnicity of cooking.

I'm trying to the best of my ability to not give the impression of being racist, but merely trying to illustrate how the younger generation seem to be losing their identity/roots by stealth, or at the very least, they are having it eroded. Whether this is by design of the PC Brigade, simply an oversight of the educators, or the pretentions of individual teachers, I do not know. Ethnic groups complain of it too, that their kids are having their culture eroded by our culture.............but hey!?..........when in Rome.;D

As for you being philosophical...........wine or not.............what do grumpy old men know of philosophy? ;) :P ;D

kev

[tigermullet]

"As for you being philosophical...........wine or not.............what do grumpy old men know of philosophy?"


I'm old and grumpy too but I'm shagged if I know.

About all you get out of philosophical psychology is that it is not wise to confuse ontology with epistemology.:P

[castlemaine]

I was heading back from the Tweed one day and decided to drive through Southport as it's been years since I've driven through there. Cut through the back to get back on to the freeway to Brissie. Got a bit lost and and was in the wrong lane, changed lanes quickly also not knowing my right signal was not working at the time. Landcruiser hoiking it down with a boat on the back decided to pull up and abuse me. I had 2 kids in the back, my aunty from overseas and my wife. I put my the passenger window down to apologise but copped a barrage of abuse F & C words from the driver and his wife. Funny part was the other driver had two kids in the back, one in a baby seat. Because he wasn't about to listen to my apology I put the window up to ignore the continuing abuse ... so he then spat at my car before taking off. His kids would probably think this was acceptable behaviour.
The not so funny part was that I noticed an Ausfish sticker on his boat, as he drove away.
Cheers 8-)

[kingtin]

The not so funny part was that I noticed an Ausfish sticker on his boat, as he drove away.
Cheers 8-)

Being a member of a fantastic community doesn't necessarily mean that you are deserving of membership of that community...................it wasn't me was it? ;D

kev

[castlemaine]

Being a member of a fantastic community doesn't necessarily mean that you are deserving of membership of that community...................it wasn't me was it? ;D

kev

LOL Kev, seems to me this thread is Ausfish's version of the 20/20 Summit;)
Cheers8-)

[NAGG]

The not so funny part was that I noticed an Ausfish sticker on his boat, as he drove away.

I'm guessing someone who just bought a second hand boat::) ...... well I'd like to think so:-/

Nagg

[skipalong]

awesome mate

[Scalem]

I'm guessing someone who just bought a second hand boat::) ...... well I'd like to think so:-/

Nagg

Gawd!

I'm going to think twice about pulling up beside boats with AF stickers for a chat. A friendly "queen style" wave will suffice me thinks.;) Last time Poodroo (in his boat) commented that not all AF members stop to be friendly, maybe this guy has been getting around::)

Scalem

[alphas]

We held a charity event last weekend to raise funds for a relative,who is severley handicapped.The response was OVERWHELMING;D That did it for me,it really helped to remind that there truly is good in the world.

[_Dan_]

People should have to read Desiderata, by Max Ehrmann.

If you havent heres the link, im a little spiritual but hey.

http://www.fleurdelis.com/desiderata.htm

Cheers