The charter that almost ruined fishing

[nautilus]

Hi all,

I want to share my experience of a fishing charter in Perth. Before I went, I was nuts about fishing, going most weekends. When I got back, I did not fish for about two months. I am only just beginning to enjoy it again. Here’s what happened.

By the way, I would name the charter company, but to be honest, it does not matter, because from what I saw and heard after asking around, most of them operate the same way.

I left from Hillary’s Boat Harbour north of Perth. I was going out on a ‘deep sea’ charter. The trip, which was early Feb, was supposed to be jigging for the mighty Samson fish. Unfortunately this season, the Samson seemed to disappear early, but as I had already booked and paid for flights, there was not a lot of option.

The boat we were on was pretty reasonable, although there were nearly 30 people on the charter and there was not a whole lot of room to fish, and more than one tangle. We reach the first spot after a couple of hours or so and drop the lines. Within pretty short time (1-2 mins) the first person was on. They pulled up a nice snapper. The deckie announces that they are great eating and throws it in the freezer. I was under the impression, that the charter operator would be keen for us to practice catch and release, but I figured, ok, good eating, no worries. (Just as an aside, I actually asked whether the charter operator practiced catch and release before I booked. He told me that “the guys will send them back for you.” Anyway, the next fish comes up, it is a thumper, nearly a meter long. It was some kind of snapper, but I was told that it was not good eating. To my surprise, out comes the spike and into the freezer it goes. Then I catch a nice snapper, maybe 75cm or so. I was pretty chuffed, took the photo, and said, ok, lets put him back. The deckie comes up to me and says “if you don’t want it, can I have it?” I thought that it was a reasonable question, but the reason I did not want to keep it was because I wanted it to live and make more snapper. I told him this and he looked at me like I was insane. I am ashamed to say that I bowed to peer pressure and kept it. The day went on, and the freezer kept filling up with these massive fish.

Before you get excited and think, yeah but the fishing must have been great, well it SUCKED. We were fishing in over 100m of water, using 100lb mono with sinkers that were about the size of stubbies. You get into position, drop the line, wait a bit, wonder if that slight nudge was a fish, and then start winding up to check your bait. Nine times out of ten there was nothing there. Also, most people, including big blokes like myself, could not wind all the way up in one go. It was that heavy. If you did actually hook something, half way up, you realise that yes there is a fish on, because you feel a few dull pulls, There is so much stretch in the line though, you are still not quite sure. However, by three quarters of the way up it feels like you just have a couple of bricks on the end as the fish is just dead weight in the water, and when you finally got it to the surface, half the time its eyes were hanging out of its head and it was dead.

What put the icing on the cake was when I reeled in a small snapper and the guy said he was not sure if it was size or not. We measured it, 39cm. 40cm is size. I am glad, because I know this one is going back. The deckie picks it up, flips it over the side where it floats on the surface for a couple of seconds before it gets pecked to death by a pack of seagulls. Once they have its eyes, it drifts off into the distance. What a F$*!%ING waste.

Now, of the 30 or so people on the boat, 25 or so were tourists, staying in hotels with no means to cook the fish. Yet they all went away, walking down the pier with big smiles, holding their garbage bag full of fish. By the time they reached carpark, they were wondering, what the bloody hell do I do with this.

First of all, I don’t really blame the charter operators. I think that they are idiots, but I don’t blame them. Every generation in the history of the planet has been too bloody stupid to protect valuable resources even when the resource is in abundance, why should they be any different. I would like to think that maybe they could put 2 and 2 together and work out that if they put the fish back, maybe they wouldn’t have to look so hard for them next time and they may have a job well into the future, but I guess not. The main reason for writing this is to give people a ‘heads-up’ as to what you can expect. These types of charters are for people who have never been fishing and who will never go again. If you are really keen, go on a small boat in either shallow water, or with light gear and braid is a must. Finally, don’t make my mistake and insist (if this is what you want, because I don’t mind taking a fish to eat every now and again either) that they properly release the fish. Some chance of survival is better than no chance.

Happy fishing.

Nautilus

[Hamish73]

sounds like a waste. Eat of swim are the only option IMO

Only had our first outing in deep water a while ago, and the mrs was windeing in her line to check the bait, and was suprised to find a fish on the end of it ::) . Definately not as much fun when the sikers get that big

[tez1]

bloody shame i wonder how many fish ended up in the hotel skip out the back!

[plaztix]

And we wonder why we have a bad rep with the conservationists. That is really poor form. These companies should be leading by example.

Some people have a funny mentality when it comes to going home with a fish, I dont know how many people i've seen get back to the ramp and realise they cant really be arsed cleaning the fish they were so quick to throw in the esky an hour ago!

[Lone_Wolf]

I have never been on a charter where the expectation was not to bring home a feed of fish. With 30 people fishing, a reasonable return for each angler is going to be 3-4 fish or over 100 fish for the day.

I would be dissatisfied with the outing if I came home without a feed and 3 or 4 fish is at best only a feed!!

I have never fished in 100 m of water without a reasonable amount of lead on. The basic practical gear for less experienced fisherman would be short strokers, 50 lb line and a padernosker rig. If they used braid, fancy reels and soft plastics the majority of people on the charter would have plenty of tangles and shredded fingers not to mention the excessive financial outlay for the operators. From my experience a fish dragged out of 100m rarely survives the journey as well.

I would regard this as a successful charter and it's a shame you did not mention the operator because they deserve recognition. A Charter boat is a commercial business. If he does not catch fish he will not have clients and will very quickly be out of business.

I would stick to watching "Fishing WA" on Foxtel if I were you. It will cost you about $100 a month and you will have a clear conscience!

LW

[reelemin1974]

Yeah, I don't really get charter fishing. I will always take my own gear.

I show up with 20lb and they are all...'ohhh, but what if you hook that 20kg sampson?' most probably I won't, so I would prefer a fight with the other 20 fish that I catch and have fun. To be honest, I think they don't like light line in case you do hook a decent fish and it takes 20mins or so to land, makes for an 'unsuccessful' 20 mins.

They are all very quick to cause a commotion back at the warf and lay all the fish out, And, unfortunately we are still a society that are impressed with a guy who has 50 fish laying on his deck rather than the bloke who has 2.

Now I am not critisizing the charters, they do what the masses want, I am critisizing society, and how we love our excesses!

[squizzytaylor]

Sounds like bad practice to me, but i will say that most hotel restaurants etc will generally cook your catch up for you at a reasonable price. The deckie should have respected your decision to release though.

Geoff

[FNQCairns]

Gotta feel for deckies and guides etc they never know what they will be up against, you pulled a fish from 100m and wanted it to go back down and make more babies while that is nice and urban the deckie in this case probably looked at you with surprise and awaiting some recognition of a joke between you both, then when it didn't happen decided to cut his losses.

The sight of a lot of fish together on a deck between so many people is also again what it is, try driving 1 hour from a city and look at all the sheep in a paddock sometimes over 100, they are not for pastoral decoration.

You need to buy your own boat, let potential deckies know what your particular slant is BEFORE every trip and find a few like minded boat buds to go fishing with.

cheers fnq

[outsiderskip]

well some people are stupid
taking bags of fish
smart people would take a esky with ice to preserve their catch
as lone wolf said he would not operate if he didnt catch fish
THAT IS HIS JOB
PUT YOU ON FISH
other most people would winge and not go out again
just my thoughts

pete

[ozbee]

fish with light line with all those people on board impossible

revival rate practically 10 % whos going to look after other clients while he gives mouth to mouth to a fish

bit you never have paid a couple of thousand dollars a tank fill in fuel

do you actually have any idea what the sustainable level fishing is for snapper or are you guessing or do you think when you go home and eat your can of tuna from the supermarket think this has no effects on fish stocks

if you don't like the real world you could of easily paid thousands more and hired a vessel for yourself

for many of those people that would of been there first experience of fishing and the enjoyment of tasting real fish, in fact it has increased the value and return per fish which means fish stocks are more valuable and more likely to be managed by government

you new it was a deep sea charter did you expect it to be shallow with little lead to get to the bottom.

all i can say is open your eyes and clean the wax out of your ears and see the whole picture yes the sea is harvested thousands of tons every year and in many places especially Australia at very sustainable rates in fact WA would be one of the best in the world.

fish was in a freezer iam quite sure it would last to the motel does wollies supply you with a esky when you buy your groceries and meat yes meat does come from a cow anyhow thats is another story . put it this way if all fish were caught by recreational and charter and not by professional which would give the highest fish stocks still in the ocean.

[coucho]

I have worked on charters before and what you have discribed is want most people want from a charter. I am not saying its right but if you don't give the people what they pay for are they going to come back?
there are charters around that cater specificly what your after. I suggest that if the kind of fishing you want to do is catch and release light line shallow water fishing then maybe a guide or small charter group is what your after however be prepared to pay a bit more. We used to take up to 14 on a charter and if one person come with their own gear that was fine we didn't stop them using it so long as thier ground tackle was supplied by us nothing creates tangles worse on a crowded boat then everyone fishing with different tackle.
Fish just don't survive when they come out of water that deep there is nothing yu can do about that except not fish there.

[disorderly]

!!


I would regard this as a successful charter and it's a shame you did not mention the operator because they deserve recognition. A Charter boat is a commercial business. If he does not catch fish he will not have clients and will very quickly be out of business.


LW

well said.
How many times have we heard winging about a charter operator that isn't able to put his clients onto the fish.
30 clients go out and catch 3 or 4 fish each(I personally would regard this as a poor result and would not bother).
Although it sounds like most were happy.They caught a few fish.The charter operator did his job.
As FNQ suggests maybe you should either buy your own boat where you can make the rules or fish off the local jetty.
Another option is to charter a smaller boat yourself where you can set the rules about the type of fishing you require.(deep sea fishing by it's very nature is always going to be bit of a kill and grill affair due to the effects of barotrauma on the fish...it's not everyone's cup of tea;))

scott

[Horse]

It sounds like a pretty good bulk deep sea charter to me. The skipper got onto some fish and kept within the regulations. He probably had 29 happy punters who had a chance to catch a few good fish. If its not your cup off tea then go for the much more expensive custom charters or find a few like minded mates and fish with them.

I would also feel like a hypocrite releasing fish in over 100m as the barotrauma would probably significantly impact on their survival rate and most would end up as shark fodder anyway

Cheers

Neil

[onerabbit]

Anyone used to fishing in deep water will be familiar with the sort of gear needed, it must be nearly 12 months since I could keep a "light sinker" (1.5lb) on the bottom, sometimes 2lb isn't enough.
Same goes for the survival rate, most decent fish arrive at the top with their guts hanging out their mouths, so the only real way to be conservation minded is to stop fishing once you have enough.

Muzz

[tigermullet]

Meat comes from cows, Ozbee? The last piece of corned beef from a major retailer didn't - it came from a rubber tree.;D

Cannot understand the complaint about the fishing charter in W.A., it sounded as if it was a very successful outing to me.

[Cheech]

This is a joke, right?

What were you expecting from a deep sea fishing trip? How many fish do you think survive after being dragged up from 100m? If you wanted to practice catch and release, then why did you go out so deep? You knew in advance that it would be deep water. What were you expecting them to do with the under size fish? Were they suppose to break the regulations and keep it?

I just do not understand this thread.

[outsiderskip]

must be a joke
never heard so much crap in all my fishing days
this takes the cake

pete

[coucho]

Now come on guys your being a bit hard on the man he is obviously new to fishing and the charter wasn't what he expected. How about instead of critisiing the man you offer some advise.

[disorderly]

How about instead of critisiing the man you offer some advise.

What do you suggest coucho?.....
Shoulda taught that Skipper a lesson....
Snapper head to the head perhaps...http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/grin.gif

[Sandman]

Its a good point you raise , its a shame you felt pressured into keeping a fish aswell had concerns about floaters etc, i guess that depth will always cause problems.
My only experience on a charter off Rainbow Beach was awsome, the skipper ensured all fish undersize were healthy on there return i had alot of admeration and will return some day.

[coucho]

What do you suggest coucho?.....
Shoulda taught that Skipper a lesson....
Snapper head to the head perhaps...http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/grin.gif

see my earlier post re what to look for/ask for from his next charter

[disorderly]

see my earlier post re what to look for/ask for from his next charter
sorry coucho..didn't read that one..I think I was busy posting at the same time .
Very good post BTWhttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/smiley.gif.

Scott

[manchild]

Mate what you after is a private 1 on 1 fishing guide.Thats what deepsea charters all about.
George

[nautilus]

I would like to clear up a few things. If everyone on the charter wanted to go out and catch fish to take them home to cook I would not have a problem. The point I was trying to get across was that two thirds of the people were tourists with no means of storing or cooking the fish they caught.

The second thing is that I asked and they told me that practiced catch and release which is one of the reasons I chose to go with them. This was simply not true.

Third, I have to disagree about the fishery being well managed. It did not seem to have any regulation at all. We spent over an hour driving in the wrong direction because one of the other large charter companies was shadowing our boat because they had completely exhausted all the fishing spots that they knew of. To put it bluntly they had fished out their known area. That is not good management of fish stocks.

finally, you cannot equate recreational or commercial fishing to sheep or cattle farming (agriculture). For a farmer to butcher a sheep, he has to grow one first. Commercial fishermen do not grow the fish, they just take what they can find. Are you all aware that there are 90% less large fish in the ocean than there were 20 years ago?

[outsiderskip]

no large fish
only weather wont permit us to get out
plenty there

pete

[ozbizweb]

The second thing is that I asked and they told me that practiced catch and release which is one of the reasons I chose to go with them. This was simply not true.


"catch and release" kills fish. It's an over-hyped urban myth to make fishing shows palatable to a wider audience.

My vote is for the tourists who enjoyed their day out followed by a feast at their motel restaurant.

[disorderly]

The point I was trying to get across was that two thirds of the people were tourists with no means of storing or cooking the fish they caught.


Are you all aware that there are 90% less large fish in the ocean than there were 20 years ago?

You tend to make some real doozies of assumptions here.
One of my best fishing experiences involved 3 other blokes and I (All tourists with no means of storing or cooking fish) chartering a longboat in Mexico(Puerto Escondido) about 15 yrs ago(for the princely sum of US$12.50 each...I personally negotiated this with a local pro fisherman because this is exactly the type of fishing I was looking for).
5 yellowfin tuna around the 18-20kg mark were caught and kept.
With the remaining 3(one was given to the skipper and deckie,the other was eventually given to a family on the beach because one of the blokes couldn't be bothered carrying it...quite hilarious in itself to see young mexican kids screaming and running away pursued by a tourist yelling at them in English, dragging a Tuna behind him with only good intentions.http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/grin.gif)...anyway we were dropped off on the beach and we carried/dragged the remaining 3 Tuna to the nearest beachfront restaurant and struck a deal that if the proprietor filled us up on Tuna steaks,salad and beer then he could keep the remaining fish.
Well after we dragged our selves out of there and onto a local house of ill repute to cap off that evening(just looking,of course,there was this most crazy stage show happening)it turned out to be one of the most memorable days of my life.

So nautilus,make your own feelings known by all means...but don't try and assume what others are planning to do with their catch(just makes you look a bit sillyhttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/wink.gif).
I also wonder where you come up with such figures as "there are 90% less large fish in the oceans than there were 20 yrs ago".
I cant even comprehend how that could be in any way accurately determined.

Scott

[nautilus]

Disorderly,

The assumptions I am making are based on people saying to me directly "I don't know what I am supposed to do with these fish, because I have no where to cook them. Do you want them?" My response was, "no, I am staying in a hotel too."

As far as the 90% less fish, the article is:

ECOLOGY: Globalization, Roving Bandits, and Marine Resources
Berkes et al.
Science 17 March 2006: 1557-1558
DOI: 10.1126/science.1122804

It is a paper that has 15 authors from half a dozen different countries. Look it up. It is discussed on an ABC radio show

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/scienceshow/stories/2006/1766715.htm

Something to think about because it is probably true. Even if it is only half true, it is still shocking.

[Lone_Wolf]

I am feeling a little "green" reading this !!

[hungry6]

This site is slowly being infiltrate by "green movement" and their poorly concocted stories with underlying hiden agendas. As many have said, If you want to catch and relase go to a shallow estuary and use soft plastic or circle hook. The moment you go past 60 odd metres and using bait, virtually every fish that is on the end of the line has nil chance of survival, either from the bloating or predator.
The facts of life is alot of fish taste good and ppls will continue to target them and so will I.
I almost fell of my chair in regards to that 39cm fish....

[banshee]

People's lack of knowledge is painfully obvious,the person in question was booked in on a jigging charter where not only is catch and release practised it is considered bad form and frowned upon to kill the fish.There has been an enormous amount of research on the survival rate of seriolla jigged out of deep water carried out by WA anglers in conjunction with their fisheries and the findings are in favour of fish surviving the ordeal quite well,in fact some fish have been recaptured more than once.
Nautilus,it is often said that hind sight is 20/20,you should have stuck with your original plan and found someone prepared to take you jigging.

[RayDeR]

Nautilus

I would have loved to been on that charter. Yeah you obviously don't know too much about tourist areas if you think a hotel or restaurant won't cook a fresh caught fish for you. (if you arrived with a couple of special staeaksa goodrestaurant would cook that for you too at a fee. That is their business.

Your attitude to this operation reminds me of people who got in my cab and knew more about driving in the city than I did. I probably drove further in a night than they did on a whole holiday. I even had a Swedish guy tel me I should have a Volvo. They had taxis that had done 300,000 kilometres. I shut him up by pointing to the 630,000km on my Falcon dial.

Nautilus, John West has the fish you reject. Or some other fisherman has.

Ray De R

[Reel Nauti]

Nautilus, if you were so keen to do the C& R, why did you book a deep sea charter? Have you any experience in fishing at these depths? And if not, what qualifies you to bag the charter?

Get a life.

Dave

[SunnyCoastMark]

Guys, guys,guys - You ALL seem to be missing the point here.

Now I am by no means a greenie - so the first one who calls me one will have to answer to my right foot!.............BUT............................. ......... We are not doing ourselves any favours when we condone the WASTEFUL harvesting of fish.

The greenies already have plenty of ammunition - we DO NOT need to give them any more!>:(

Do you want vast areas of our oceans/reefs under lock and key (fishing wise)?!

NO, of course not - so WAKE UP and realise this is no longer the age where we can catch eskys full of fish and brag about it to all and sundry - because it will come back and bite us.

Be aware that "greenies" do troll this website and take note of every report detailing wasteful catches and photo's showing hundreds of caught fish.

C'mon guys - GET A CLUE!! Have some vision for the future. Be smart in your reports and your comments. Be seen to be mindful of this great pastime we all enjoy. It's not rocket science.::)

I want to enjoy fishing until I die - I want my kids to enjoy fishing and their kids and so on. I don't want to have large areas closed to fishing.

As for the charter operators - they will be among the first to feel the sting - you watch. The powers that be will limit their catches etc.

They need to wake up as well - or they will not be around.


Ok - off my soap box now.:-X

Mark

[billfisher]

The 90% less larger fish figure is extremely doubful. I think it comes from the Myers and Worm paper of 2003. This has come under heavy criticism for careless intepretation of fisheries statistics and incorrect assumptions, as has Boris Worm's recent paper which predicted all the world's fish stocks will collapse in 50 years. Professor Ray Hilborn, a peer review scientist with the University of Washington described it as "the most absurd prediction ever to appear in a journal regarding fisheries. It will be completely accepted by the ecological community, these people have no scepticism".

[Reel Nauti]

I think the charter skipper was very much awake and switched on. Mono lines, fists full of lead.......sure slows down the catch rate, as even stated by Nautilus.

Dave

[FNQCairns]

The 90% less larger fish figure is extremely doubful. I think it comes from the Myers and Worm paper of 2003. This has come under heavy criticism for careless intepretation of fisheries statistics and incorrect assumptions, as has Boris Worm's recent paper which predicted all the world's fish stocks will collapse in 50 years. Professor Ray Hilborn, a peer review scientist with the University of Washington described it as "the most absurd prediction ever to appear in a journal regarding fisheries. It will be completely accepted by the ecological community, these people have no scepticism".

Yes! I had a reply all typed out over the 90% less claim last night and why it was proved as a total falicy (never let reality get in the way of a money/power making), I was in conservation for a while and this claim and the resultant publicity it aroused cause all sorts of panic in governmental circles, never a common sense voice will be hard when a claim aligns with the personal beliefs of one of the suits up high in the pecking order but I chose to delete it when finished instead of post to save the bother, these myths that published by those of low quality always hook the gullible and as a result is what ATM driving fisheries regulation and the preservationist ideology regarding the very need for marine parks here in OZ.

cheers fnq

[Dirtysanchez]

I have 2 areas of input on this topic.. I have been out on several charters and caught bugger all for various reasons, so I would have been overjoyed to be on the receiving end of a bag full of fish

I also am becoming more and more concerned that people are posting threads like this, as a virtual bait, so that they can sit back and collate the responses to further their cause and to further paint fishermen as insensitive, none caring rape and pillage the seas type persona.

I'd be a bit careful at what I respond to frankly

[Blue_Escape]

I think the charter skipper was very much awake and switched on. Mono lines, fists full of lead.......sure slows down the catch rate, as even stated by Nautilus.

Dave
Spot on, if the charter operators really wanted to wipe-out fish stocks they'd be using high $'s gear with braid and nuclear chooks ....probably catch 5 times the fish ;D .

Nautilus
don't kid yourself about charters not being responsible, if only for 'practical' reasons. Yes he has to catch some fish to keep customers happy but if he cleans out an area it means next time he has to travel further > more diesel = more $$'s. He has a family to and wants his kids to grow up to be fishermen as well!

As Banshee mentioned previously the C&R of Samson (seriola) is highly researched by "greenies" in co-rdination with charters/fishos in WA and extremely well practised. February is getting a bit late in the season anyway...you should have gone in December. If you had been more careful about the charter you chose the outcome would certainly have been different! I have been out with arguably the best charter over there and the trouble they go to to keep fish alive is outstanding - again keeping these fish alive is in their best interest.

Also, gear supplied is Stellas & Saltigas with 80lb braid and 300g jigs (i.e. the best you can get)....but if you think this type of fishing is easy?!? then you need a serious wake up call
Also, most people, including big blokes like myself, could not wind all the way up in one go. It was that heavy. although I must admit you will have no doubt when you do hook up!:o

Blue

[Steve B]

Nautilus, if you were so keen to do the C& R, why did you book a deep sea charter? Have you any experience in fishing at these depths? And if not, what qualifies you to bag the charter?

Get a life.

Dave


Dave,

Mabey some reading lessons wouldnt go astry!!! Or are you just trying to get on the band wagon of everyone else giving this bloke a hard time for not getting what he thought he was paying for??

give him a break fellas!!

He booked the charter and was told it was a jigging trip for AJ's !! Thats his primary compaint.

He obvoiusly doesnt understand how barotrauma affects fish in deep water fishing and it upset him to see waste of undersized fish, doesnt everyone???? I dont like seeing undersize fish die. (as unavoidable as it was)

As for keeping fish, he did it like a 'MAN' when asked to by the deckie. At the end of the day I would bet my bottom dollar those bags of fish were tossed in the nearest bin by the majority of the tourists. I have seen it done on charters before.
I have seen big barra tossed in whellie bins because people have been too lazy to fillet them or they didnt have enough room in their esky for the 5 meter + barra they killed because they were allowed too.

I am not a greenie, nor a ocean raper!! but guys, this fella didn't get what he expected. He cares for the fish stocks of the future and you lot bag him for it, and make him sound like an idiot (with a few exceptions).

[Steve B]

I have 2 areas of input on this topic.. I have been out on several charters and caught bugger all for various reasons, so I would have been overjoyed to be on the receiving end of a bag full of fish

I also am becoming more and more concerned that people are posting threads like this, as a virtual bait, so that they can sit back and collate the responses to further their cause and to further paint fishermen as insensitive, none caring rape and pillage the seas type persona.

I'd be a bit careful at what I respond to frankly


couldnt agree more Dirtysanchez, they have their ammo from a few here.

[Reel Nauti]

Steve B

I think it is YOU who needs the reading lesson mate. (and one in spelling - if you're going to take people to task you need to clean your glass house first). Nautilus clearly states in his opening post that he wanted a "deep sea" charter, and therefore C & R is extremely difficult for even the most experienced.

You then proceed to prattel on in a response to Dirtysanchez after having told the world that you have witnessed "big barra tossed in wheelie bins". You are right though when you imply that those opposed to us could "have their ammo from a few here".

You're one of them!

Dave

[nautilus]

Reel Nauti, I did want to go jigging. They called me up a couple of weeks before and cancelled that on me. They told me that all the samson fish had gone. Having already booked accomodation and paid for airfares, I took what was on offer. Deep sea fishing. I fish regularly for flathead in 60m of water and the small ones I don't want to eat seem to go back fine. I was not aware that 40m more would make all the difference.

Also, as some others have pointed out, my complaint is the waste of the fish that were not going to be eaten. I would have thought that the charterer could have asked people if they wanted to keep fish or send them back. Maybe they live, maybe they don't, there are no guarantees, but I can guarantee you they don't survive in an eski.

Yes, I am very much a "Greenie" I don't like wasting a valuable resource. I would like to preserve fish stocks for the future. I imagine that if I asked you if you like wasting resources or if you would like to preserve fish stocks for your kids, you would say yes. I love fishing and I want to continue fishing.

I also would like to add that some of the posts sounds a lot like "Reds under the bed" and the "Communists are coming". Lets not get too carried away. I don't think greenies are secretly gatherine ammunition. My gut feeling is that there are a lot of people on this site who love fishing and want to keep fishing but recognise that we can't do it the way we always have because we will run out of fish.

[Simmo2]

So if you had magically stepped off the boat and gone to another place, therefore knowing not what your fellow hotel dwellers were to (supposedly) do with their fish... would you still have considered your trip a rape of the ocean floor?
The charter operators too have bag limits to abide by, I don't see a 'major' issue here apart from your opinion???
If 30 rec fishers had to pass by your place, for your approval, would you be pissed off then? Same amount of fish no doubt????

[nautilus]

Simmo,

Wasting fish is what concerns me. I think it would be excellent if it did not happen.

I don't know what the bag limits are for charter boats in WA. If they are anything like recreational bag limits in NSW then I think they are far too generous.

I don't understand the last bit of your post.

[Steve B]

Steve B

I think it is YOU who needs the reading lesson mate. (and one in spelling - if you're going to take people to task you need to clean your glass house first). Nautilus clearly states in his opening post that he wanted a "deep sea" charter, and therefore C & R is extremely difficult for even the most experienced.

You then proceed to prattel on in a response to Dirtysanchez after having told the world that you have witnessed "big barra tossed in wheelie bins". You are right though when you imply that those opposed to us could "have their ammo from a few here".

You're one of them!

Dave

Yes, he did say deep see charter, a deep sea jigging charter, where C&R IS practiced! (someone stated that in a previous post) I have SEEN (not witnessed) big barra unfilleted in whellie bins, and up on the bank where yobbos have tossed them..yes. It disgusts me. I wish i had of witnessed it, I would have done something about it. I'm hoping the powers that be with the authority do read this. These people need to be made a lesson of by the law as individuals, not green groups who want to shut everything down ruining fishing for the likes of you and I who enjoy fishing and do the right thing.

what am I one of Dave??? conservationist, a bit, but not fanatical. Someone who hates seeing fish wasted..yes. I eat fish. I love it. I have been on charters and it doesnt bother me that we keep fish. thats why I go. I like charters, and I agree that most charter operators are responsible and care for their future! I also like catch and release too.

My only real concern with this thread was the roasting this bloke copped for telling his story and not having a full understanding of what goes on on a deep sea charter. he does now, and plenty have reminded him of that!
thats about it! Spell check compleeete.!!!

[Reel Nauti]

My last reply.

Steve, you are one that is supplying ammo mate.

If Nautilus or anyone wants to put up a thread and bag other fisherman/women and charter operators with his opinion, we, as members, are also entitled to our opinions. That what makes and keeps the site interesting. That is how we all learn.

Maybe those people on that charter managed to find someone or someway to fillet their catch and take it back to wherever they came from. Maybe it also opened their eyes to the garbage some people continue to feed the world that fish stocks are looming on extinction. Maybe it instilled in those customers on the charter a respect for the ability of the skipper and for providing them with value
for their money. I'd like to bet they're not bagging him. And maybe it instilled in them a passion and respect for a sport which we all hold so dearly. I see no losers from that charter experience.

Dave

[Steve B]

Dave this is my last reply too. I agree with everything you said in your post. In a nutshell, It was a good charter, the skipper did a great job. Everyone was happy to get a feed and mabey they did find some way of storing the fish. We will never know.

I beleive fish stocks are not as good as they used to be worldwide, and I totally agree that there is a massive scare mongering campaign going on from certain groups about the 'armagedon' of the fish stocks, and the fishing industry around the world . Thats why I do not support the views of some fanatical green groups.

I personally believe nautilus was given a hard time by 'experienced' fisherman in some posts for his 'lack of experience' with deep sea charters. I should have been more polite in my attempts to defend his reasoning which I understood and agreed with. Sorry for that.

The way I read it was he thought the C&R of jigging trips (which he originally thought he was getting) would also be applied to table eating species on this specific charter, and it wasn't.

His genuine concern for unnessessary fish killing anywhere, in any form of fishing is justified and worthy of respect if nothing else IMHO. We are all lucky to have our opinion..mine is spent!!

cheers steve

[banshee]

The fact that the under sized fish was not vented before it was tossed back says to me that these blokes were cowboys.

[FNQCairns]

The fact that the under sized fish was not vented before it was tossed back says to me that these blokes were cowboys.

100m thats about 11 atmospheres in total what do you think the cowboys could do that would make a difference?, when the fish is at equilibrium then yanked to the surface through 10atm in 2 minutes and the volume of all blood and cavity gas's are expanded 10 fold not to mention the 10 fold decrease in gas density as a result, no corporal body has even a remote chance of surviving past absolute and immediate brain death, if they swim away it will be a response mediated more by a pathway like a symathetic nervous system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sympathetic_nervous_system
than any emotional belief we choose to divine them with.

cheers fnq

[banshee]

Mate I pull juvenile snapper out of 48 fathoms all the time,vented with a horse hypo they swim straight back down.Do they survive?I don't know,but they sure as shit don't float off for the birds.

[FNQCairns]

Mate I pull juvenile snapper out of 48 fathoms all the time,vented with a horse hypo they swim straight back down.Do they survive?I don't know,but they sure as shit don't float off for the birds.

None survive it's simply just not possible from great depths with anything that has a heart pumping in their chest, if you took a few hours to raise the fish there may be a chance - dunno. Even 40m under normal circumstances after venting is a long shot, it may survive past automated responses but almost certainly the smarts needed to survive past the first predator will be lacking.

Just because the fish looks like it's breathing the density of the gas available at such low pressure near the surface takes a lot of time for the fish to adapt to be able to diffuse into it's body.

Bit like taking a person straight from sea level to the top of Mount Everest in 2 minutes, it's not survivable experience for any human without great preparation even by those that have stood on the top before.

cheers fnq

[Simmo2]

I don't understand the last bit of your post.

Sorry Mate,
I was trying to indicate that there were 30 blokes on the charter, they each took home an amount of fish.... 'one would presume under their legal limit (bag limit)'.

The amount of fish and their/your 'holiday status'....ie living out of a suitcase for a few days, you believe that they had no way of utilising the catch???
This indeed would be a waste, if they threw the catch in a wheelie bin or similar. (But we dont know that do we???)

My reference about dropping by your place was that you saw a whole lot of fishermen on one boat, at one time.
If the 30 blokes, individually, showed you their days catch from their own boats or shoreline, each one of them that caught their limit or under you would no doubt congratulate on a good day out!
I think because you saw the charter boat do what it is in the water for, you have realised the 'easy' fishing aint for you.
Please dont think that I am having a go at you, I ain't!

Silly analogy: I love cows, I think they are so cute. So I choose to ignore the bullfights and rodeo's.

[banshee]

Some fish species suffer badly,some fish species suffer very little and some fish of the same species will suffer differently even when pulled from the same depth.A fish that displays the symptoms of the one in the photo will not survive,period, but a fish that has a mildly swollen gut with no distended stomach or popped eyes (I don't have a picture of one because I've never felt the need to photograph juvenile fish) from what Ive read has a better than average chance.Likewise fish such as Kingfish that will chase a school of baitfish to the surface from a hundred plus metres faster than you could pull them up on a line suffer little if any effect from barrotrauma.I have also seen Pearl Perch live quite happily in a large bait well for extended periods of time,sometimes hours,when it was thought an upgrade was possible.I'm sorry but I have little faith in your comparrison between fish and humans and will continue to vent and release as opposed to just dumping untill a reputable study has been done.

[FNQCairns]

Some fish species suffer badly,some fish species suffer very little and some fish of the same species will suffer differently even when pulled from the same depth.A fish that displays the symptoms of the one in the photo will not survive,period, but a fish that has a mildly swollen gut with no distended stomach or popped eyes (I don't have a picture of one because I've never felt the need to photograph juvenile fish) from what Ive read has a better than average chance.Likewise fish such as Kingfish that will chase a school of baitfish to the surface from a hundred plus metres faster than you could pull them up on a line suffer little if any effect from barrotrauma.I have also seen Pearl Perch live quite happily in a large bait well for extended periods of time,sometimes hours,when it was thought an upgrade was possible.I'm sorry but I have little faith in your comparrison between fish and humans and will continue to vent and release as opposed to just dumping untill a reputable study has been done.

Yeah some study would be good but they are really only needed for the shallower pulled species, a 10 times volume increase in all gasses over such a short time is akin to ramming flesh through with a spear at a vascular level, we cannot see the vascular and tissue damage etc but the understanding of the physical nature of tissue/cell/neurons just to name a few means just not survivable, from say 40m suspect a healthy whack of brain damage no matter what, it doesn't take much in any fish, most of the fish caught on TV from warm waters go back damaged after the camera shots and blurb to screen.
Coral trout can be caught in deep water, yet it is understood that to expect survival for live export I thnk 15m is the deepest depth they can be pulled from.
I could catch a fish that has a wide territorial depth range drop it down 100m hold there for 10min pull it up pop it's bag if needed then believe it has a good chance of survival back down at 20m, like kingfish etc it's about equilibrium and that takes time which the fish also needs to adapt to just like humans and breathing de-oxygenated air....anyway regardless, our efforts make little to no difference with recfishing by very nature such a low impact method that survive or not, the result will not be measurable, simply made a spot for competing members of the same species to fill with less effort/competition now needed to survive within the school/territory etc

cheers fnq