Sensabrake Issues

[Hamish73]

Ok, I just got a boat with sensabrake installed, got the in car kit installed no problems. It all worked fine, to the extent where you count drive away until the pressure was built up.

Now the trailer brakes dont work. They try to work (caliper pistons move when pedal pressed) , but there doesnt seem to be enough hydraulic pressure for them to lock on.

With the trailer axle jacked up and the brakes locked on (plug disconnected) you can still turn the wheel by hand. A bit of pressure on the brake pad with a pry bar and the wheel locks up solid, so caliper isnt siezed. I cracked the bleed nipple on one caliper to check for air, but it was all good. If it was air I would have expected the fluid level to have dropped since the time when the brakes were working, which it hasnt.


Any ideas? Sounds like the actuator to me, which sounds expensive.
Has anyone pulled one of these down? I assume its a compressor with a air valve then ram that drives a hydraulic master cylinder?

Any help would be appreciated ...the $$$ never ends! >:(

[northernblue]

What sensativity is the mouse set at?

[Spaniard_King]

Hamish,

I think you are not getting full pressure from the compressor. do you know what model sensa brake you have ??? they did have some issues and had to replace the circuit boards in a range of them.

There is a mob at stones corner who are the service agent for them.. they were very helpfull to me( had a loose wire which my auto sparky couldnt sort).. can try and dig up the number if you like.

[Spaniard_King]

This is them United Brake and Clutch at Coorparoo a call - 33970977

[Hamish73]

What sensativity is the mouse set at?
it doesnt matter what the sensitivity is, have recalibrated it numerous times.
The sensitivity shouldnt effect the 'handbrake' function when the cable is removed.

Thanks gary, I figured that would be the answer

[northernblue]

How did you get on Hamish?

[Hamish73]

had a play with it on the weekend, definately low on hydraulic pressure. Re bleeding the system did SFA.
Spoke to Leo at United Brake and Clutch and he said it sounded like a blown seal in the master cyl, so I took the unit off and dropped it off to him thismorning.
Will know tomorrow

[northernblue]

Bad luck.
I have yet to install mine.
It's a pretty expensive little box sitting in the corner of the garage, ATM.
Interested in how things pan out.

[Hamish73]

they work ok, I dont like the controller... the sensitivity lever is too small and too easy to accidently knock, prodigy design is much better, but its one of those 'our controller or it will smoke' kinda systems :(

[Alchemy]

Yeap, the guys at United are very helpful and know there stuff. I have had a few jobs performed by them now and wouldn't hesitate in recommending them.

I recently had issues with my Sensa-brake actuator, and sent it down to them from Townsville. In the end it required a new compressor and a recon bulkhead. Apparently if there is an issue with the compressor not cutting out, the pistons melt, coz they're made of plastic. This obviously means the thing is getting hot, and since the bulkhead is conveniently mounted right next to the compressor and also made of plastic, it melts! My unit was only just over 3 yrs old when this all happened. The bulkheads are no longer available, but fortunately the guys at United had enough bits to refurb mine. The compressoer was replaced with one with metal pistons, and $700 odd later it was back together.

I've always raved at how good this set up is, and when it works, it works well. However, it seems to me that Sensa-brake didn't employ any common sense when designing this particular model. Unless they intended for failures to occur such as mine so they could sell either parts or new replacement units!

Good luck, I hope yours is a simpler less expensive fix than mine.

Regards,
Dave.

[Hamish73]

Yeap, the guys at United are very helpful and know there stuff. I have had a few jobs performed by them now and wouldn't hesitate in recommending them.

I recently had issues with my Sensa-brake actuator, and sent it down to them from Townsville. In the end it required a new compressor and a recon bulkhead. Apparently if there is an issue with the compressor not cutting out, the pistons melt, coz they're made of plastic. This obviously means the thing is getting hot, and since the bulkhead is conveniently mounted right next to the compressor and also made of plastic, it melts! My unit was only just over 3 yrs old when this all happened. The bulkheads are no longer available, but fortunately the guys at United had enough bits to refurb mine. The compressoer was replaced with one with metal pistons, and $700 odd later it was back together.

I've always raved at how good this set up is, and when it works, it works well. However, it seems to me that Sensa-brake didn't employ any common sense when designing this particular model. Unless they intended for failures to occur such as mine so they could sell either parts or new replacement units!

Good luck, I hope yours is a simpler less expensive fix than mine.

Regards,
Dave.

after all, they are maede in noooo zeeland hey brrro ::)
Fingers are crossed... after all the bad stories I doubt I'd go sensabrake on a new trailer

[Strategy]

Hamish,

I had similar problems with the sensa brake on my last trailer and it was the actuator. The guys at United are great. Really know there stuff and price very reasonable.
Regards
Wayne

[cormorant]

I was told they had an issue that if you left your foot on the brake at lights , as you do, the compresser keeps running and doesn't pressure cut out and just bleeds in case you need stopping power. Problem was that they melted as they were never meant to run for that long. Was that what the new board fixed and have the newer models fixed this issue? Was it every mode?l What other credible alternatives are there as with a towing vehicle upgrade next year I will no longer be able to use vac hydraulic due to ABS so I told?

[Chimo]

Hi

When I fitted my brake system I was advised to go with an old style unit that the bugs had been sorted on and that used a number of controllers. I did that and it works well and the tekonsha in car controller also is good.

I got a CARLISLE HYDRASTAR and by the way the instructions for it also say to use your park brake when stopped at lights or railway crossings.
They also make it possible to buy the right controller.
http://www.carlislebrake.com/products/trailer/hba_controllers.php

Unfortunately I wont get a kickback from the company but I hope this is some help anyway.!
Cheers
Chimo

[Hamish73]

I dont see an issue with holding your foot on the brakes at the lights. Once the pressure is built up the compressor will turn off. Pumping the brakes on and off would cause the compressor to run continuously which may cause overheating. It says in the book that if the compressor runs for more than 2 min (?) continuously it will stop and a warning will sound from the mouse to allow it to cool.

[Chimo]

Hi Hamish

With the hydrastar it is an issue and if the posts above re the sensa are correct it appears to be with the sensa too



Quote
"EXTENDED STOPS CAN GENERATE EXCESSIVE HEAT - When stopped for extended
periods (i.e. such as at railroad crossings and traffic jams), apply the park brake on the towing vehicle and release the service brake pedal so that the Hydrastar™ actuator does not run continuously. Failure to follow this guideline will cause the Hydrastar™ unit to overheat and will damage the Hydrastar™ unit."

Cheers
Chimo

[cormorant]

Thanks for that guys.

Still trying to work out if these systems are vacum or compressed air over hydraulic master cylinder or a direct hydraulic pump?

If you can't leave the brake on what the hell do you do on a steep ramp when launching as as a big boat and trailer will drag a landcruiser in on a steep slippery ramp if the trailer brakes aren't on?

We currently have old reliable PBR vacum over hydraulic but they are getting very expensive for replacement parts and newer tow vehicles have issues with plumbing into the brakes due to ABS and getting vacum from manifold as they are turbos. Inspection guys are also warning me that they may not comply with breakaway rules down the track as they don't have a physical trigger for loss of vacum!!! What the F--- nor does any semi-trailer with air brakes- if the pressure / vac is lost then the brakes or on- geeze. What's so bloody positive about a battery that could die?

[Chimo]

Hi Cormorant;

790062]Thanks for that guys.

Q Still trying to work out if these systems are vacum or compressed air over hydraulic master cylinder or a direct hydraulic pump?
A Hydraulic. The hydraulic brakes on the trailer are essentially standard but are operated by the Hydraulic unit (Carlisle Hydrastar in my case) mounted on the trailer with the degree of pressure to the brakes on four wheels, as specified / required in accordance to the the way you have set the in car controller (Tekonsha in my case)

Q If you can't leave the brake on what the hell do you do on a steep ramp when launching as as a big boat and trailer will drag a landcruiser in on a steep slippery ramp if the trailer brakes aren't on?
A Use a bloody big wheel chock under the tow vehicle rear wheel (one in my case) you may want two and leave someone in the tow vehicle as well.

We currently have old reliable PBR vacum over hydraulic but they are getting very expensive for replacement parts and newer tow vehicles have issues with plumbing into the brakes due to ABS and getting vacum from manifold as they are turbos. Inspection guys are also warning me that they may not comply with breakaway rules down the track as they don't have a physical trigger for loss of vacum!!! What the F--- nor does any semi-trailer with air brakes- if the pressure / vac is lost then the brakes or on- geeze. What's so bloody positive about a battery that could die?[/quote]

The Hydrastar on trailer unit is an old style unit (that I recently fitted as I was advised that the bugs are sorted on these) and it has a small back up battery installed on the trailer which powers the pump to put the brakes on if the trailer comes off the tow car. The unit has a wire safety line attached to the rear of the tow unit and if the trailer comes off the cable pulls out a switch on the hydrastar that stops the trailer. You can test it by pulling the switch out youself and shoving it back after the pump turns on ....... all cool.

You can back the trailer as normal and with out a load the sensativity is very high when you brake going backwards but you can adjust the In car tekonsha to lessen this and re adjust it when you loaded and traveling.

You can also put the traler brakes on by operating the in car unit if you want to use the trailer to slow you or just want the trailer brakes to get a little warm to dry out while travelling befor storing.

As long as you trailer brakes are hydraulic and in good condition this system should work for you too.

Hope this answers some of you Qs. More if you want it

Cheers
Chimo

PS battery on the trailer is charged from the car as you drive.

[FNQCairns]

On the ramp issue with brakes, some real 4wds (patrols :) ) with 4wd selected with the hubs locked in can lock all wheels via the handbrake without someone with a foot on the pedal.

cheers fnq

[Spaniard_King]

I was told they had an issue that if you left your foot on the brake at lights , as you do, the compresser keeps running and doesn't pressure cut out and just bleeds in case you need stopping power. Problem was that they melted as they were never meant to run for that long. Was that what the new board fixed and have the newer models fixed this issue? Was it every mode?l What other credible alternatives are there as with a towing vehicle upgrade next year I will no longer be able to use vac hydraulic due to ABS so I told?

The Sensa brake 2 system has an over temp cut out so you wont have a melt down at the lights.

Also Cormorant I am towing my 2.7T rig with a V8 Cruiser with ABS (sensa 2 system) and I got no problems with ABS. Who and what are the problems??

[Hamish73]

maybe they should have called it sna a break ??

I picked up a camper trailer on the weekend to find the electric brakes didnt work, looked down and noticed the led on the mouse pad was off.

Turned car off an on again and the led was on, and its colour changed from green to green/red if my foot was on the brake, and I could hear the relay clicking, but after 10 seconds the light would go out. Turn ignition off and on again and the same thing would happen.

Ity appoears that the senabrake website is about as reliable as the product they sell. Wiring appears to be good. Can someone with the system please tell me if no trailer is connected, does the light on the mouse stay on or go aout after a few seconds?

thanks

[Spaniard_King]

maybe they should have called it sna a break ??

I picked up a camper trailer on the weekend to find the electric brakes didnt work, looked down and noticed the led on the mouse pad was off.

Turned car off an on again and the led was on, and its colour changed from green to green/red if my foot was on the brake, and I could hear the relay clicking, but after 10 seconds the light would go out. Turn ignition off and on again and the same thing would happen.

Ity appoears that the senabrake website is about as reliable as the product they sell. Wiring appears to be good. Can someone with the system please tell me if no trailer is connected, does the light on the mouse stay on or go aout after a few seconds?

thanks

I take it Hamish that you missed the part in the sensa brake manual where it states that sensa brakes are stand alone i.e The sensa brake gear only works with the sensa brake gear:o so thew sensa brake car kit wont work with a standard electric brake system on a trailer.;)

By the way how you describe the operation of the car controller is exactly how mine operates without anything coupled to the car.

[Chimo]

I take it Hamish that you missed the part in the sensa brake manual where it states that sensa brakes are stand alone i.e The sensa brake gear only works with the sensa brake gear:o so thew sensa brake car kit wont work with a standard electric brake system on a trailer.;)
.


Hi Hamish et al

And that my friends is just one more reason to stick with any other simple breakaway system like the hydrastar etc that doesn't try and lock you into JUST THEIR CONTROLLER. STUFF THAT. When you tow other stuff you need another controller, no doubt the conflict between the two would be something to see.

Cheers
Chimo GOM (Happy Fathers Day to all you Dads and Grandadads out there::)

[Spaniard_King]

Hi Hamish et al

And that my friends is just one more reason to stick with any other simple breakaway system like the hydrastar etc that doesn't try and lock you into JUST THEIR CONTROLLER. STUFF THAT. When you tow other stuff you need another controller, no doubt the conflict between the two would be something to see.

Cheers
Chimo GOM (Happy Fathers Day to all you Dads and Grandadads out there::)


Chimo, I chose the sensa brake system after having tested a couple of others that were readily available, although I cant vouch for the other brands setup at the time I can attest to the sensa brake system being "WHAT I WOULD WANT" if or when the time required maximum braking effort.

Seems as if your bagging a brand for protecting it's own interests:-/

[Chimo]

Not correct Garry, but I was advised not to use sensa by a trailer manufacturer I was dealing with and was told that even though they used, and fitted them, that approx half were being returned with problems.

Also my existing controller could not be used so I would have needed to spend more on a new one of them too.

And I was also told the older, simpler units seemed to have had had most of the bugs sorted and could be used with a large number of controllers so I bought one of those and it stops me too.

To each his own but then again one of the advantages of this site is that it allows us to share info and therfore reduces the need for each of us to continually invent the wheel if you get my drift.

Hope your having a good fathers day too.

Cheers
Chimo

[ozbee]

best thing i ever did owning a sensa a break system was to loop wire a seven pin plug into the system . so when it chucks a fit for no apparent reason even though it worked fine for the last 100 k means at least you have blinkers and tail lights and no smoking disc to your destination. they are complete rubbish even to the point from brand new they will stall you until its out of warranty . the quicker they go broke and someone gives a reliable system the more lives will be saved .

[wrxhoon]

I have a sensa-brake, the large NA1400 abs system. I bought mine when I was in USA ( I wouldn't pay the exy prices they ask here for them).
The units they sell in USA you can run any controller you want with them, their software is made so you run any controller.
The units they sell here you must use their controller, if you don't you will blow their circuit board because they run low voltage . I wouldn't like to run their EVO controller because you must have the pad on the brake pedal and unless you remove it when not towing you will wear it out in a few years. The other thing its very expensive!!

Mine works very well stopping my 2.5+ t boat, I can lock the trailer wheels any time. I spent some time ajusting the controller but she works perfect .
I put another switch on my brake pedal ( don't use the landcruisers brake light switch), I made this switch to activate further down so she won't do anything if you just put your foot on the pedal lightly. I found this to work very well so the brakes on the trailer come on at the same time as the truck, when I used the trucks brake light switch they would come on the trailer first.
I must say I use 275mm vented S/Steel rotors with 52 mm Kodiak S/S calipers.
On my previous trailer I had Hydrastar and she worked very well but a little slow to activate the trailer brakes .

[Chimo]

If you have to go to that much trouble with this breed why would you bother compared to the other alternatives that also stop you?

Seems a lot like hitting ones self on the head with a hammer until you can no longer feel the pain!

Cheers
Chimo

[wrxhoon]

If you have to go to that much trouble with this breed why would you bother compared to the other alternatives that also stop you?

Seems a lot like hitting ones self on the head with a hammer until you can no longer feel the pain!

Cheers
Chimo


Because the Hydrastar was slow and you need a battery on the trailer ( to activate and hold pressure on the brakes when she comes off the towbar) you also need something in the car to show if the battery is charged.
With the Sensa you doin't need any if that because she has air in the tank and when she comes off the compessed air activates the master cyl, brakes go on and won't come off until the air fron the tank is releashed .
Extra security when parked on the boat ramp as well, not many thieves would know how to releash the air so they can't push or tow the trailer !!

If I had to pay the price they are asking here in AUS including the EVO controller, I wouldn't use it but in USA its the same price as Hydrastar, Dextar and others .

Like I said before if you set it up right it works well but I found using the cars brake light to activate it brakes would go on to hard to soon and they were stopping the Landcruiser and getting very hot .

[TimiBoy]

Sensa Brakes just made my list! Totally shat themselves. Three wheels are seized, two cooked bearings. All that from just going to the servo to fuel up. Fully stripped and serviced twelve months ago. Guess what I'm doing tomorrow?

Not FRIGGIN' FISHING!!!

Waste of friggin' money, imo.

Tim

[Spaniard_King]

Tim,

Keen to hear how the bearings were cooked?

Had mine for 2 3/4 years no issues other than brake rotors rusting and destroying pads.

[TimiBoy]

All jammed on. After a couple of hours soaking in inox they've come free, but will need to be stripped again. I got 2 good years, but since then they are always jamming, off and on...

Cheers,

Tim

[The-easyrider]

I Havn,t had to many dramas with mine touch wood, but after every outing I give them a good wash and a spray with inox and every 6 months or less drop the wheels and grease all the bits that move. What did give me drama was the hand brake pads swelling up with rust and draging

[wrxhoon]

Tim ,

Is the sensabrake the problem or your caliper pistons?
Never a problem with mine, I have full S/Steel, calipers and rotors but I'll soon need new pads.

[TimiBoy]

Yim ,

Is the sensabrake the problem or your caliper pistons?
Never a problem with mine, I have full S/Steel, calipers and rotors but I'll soon need new pads.

Yim? LOL! Never been called that before. Some sort of Chinese vegetable? OK, I'll take that as a compliment! ;D;D;D

Anyway, back to the trailer. I was advised against going stainless. They said "Just keep it really simple." So this time around, I'll do the following:

Replace a couple of brake pads
repack the bearings
make sure everything moves properly
A dose of inox every few months (because it loosened things up this time)

Not being mechanically competent makes it a challenge, but I'm learning...

Cheers,

Tim

[wrxhoon]

Yim? LOL! Never been called that before. Some sort of Chinese vegetable? OK, I'll take that as a compliment! ;D;D;D

Anyway, back to the trailer. I was advised against going stainless. They said "Just keep it really simple." So this time around, I'll do the following:

Replace a couple of brake pads
repack the bearings
make sure everything moves properly
A dose of inox every few months (because it loosened things up this time)

Not being mechanically competent makes it a challenge, but I'm learning...

Cheers,

Tim


Sorry mate it was a typo, I hit Y ( next to T).

You don't know if the Sensa brake itself is working ot not . If the calliper pistons have rusted they could get stuck there and hold the brakes locked. Try pushing the piston back in and see what happens.
Who adviced you not to use S/S ? Keep it simple? What do mean by that? S/S callipers are the same as none S/S , I have Kodiak and they make the same calliper in S/S , Cadmium plated and E-coated. I also used the S/S rotor so it doesn't rust and rip the pads off. Only one negative with these and that is COST, about 3 times the cost of the basic E-Coated to buy.
You have to make sure the rotor is not rusted and the piston moves freely in and out, of course if the pads are warn you need to replace them.

[TimiBoy]

Sorry mate it was a typo, I hit Y ( next to T).

You don't know if the Sensa brake itself is working ot not . If the calliper pistons have rusted they could get stuck there and hold the brakes locked. Try pushing the piston back in and see what happens.
Who adviced you not to use S/S ? Keep it simple? What do mean by that? S/S callipers are the same as none S/S , I have Kodiak and they make the same calliper in S/S , Cadmium plated and E-coated. I also used the S/S rotor so it doesn't rust and rip the pads off. Only one negative with these and that is COST, about 3 times the cost of the basic E-Coated to buy.
You have to make sure the rotor is not rusted and the piston moves freely in and out, of course if the pads are warn you need to replace them.

I check it's working by hitting the emergency button - you feel it pull up.

I won't state who suggested leaving the SS out of the equation, and it's only advice. I will try one cure at a time, and I'm pretty sure Tropicrows or Wags will give me a hand to make sure things are right with the system.

I'll work with the solution below - if that doesn't work, then I'll start mucking with the next step.

Cheers,

Tim

[wags on the water]

I check it's working by hitting the emergency button - you feel it pull up.

I won't state who suggested leaving the SS out of the equation, and it's only advice. I will try one cure at a time, and I'm pretty sure Tropicrows or Wags will give me a hand to make sure things are right with the system.

I'll work with the solution below - if that doesn't work, then I'll start mucking with the next step.

Cheers,

Tim

If I didn't read this Tim, when were you going to ask?????::) ::) ::) .

Anytime mate just give me a call. ;)