How Long for the Carby 2S?

[Scalem]

I've been looking around boat yards with the dream of upgrading to the new technology 4 and direct injection 2S motors.

I don't know how much truth there is in one boat yard salesmans' comments. He knew I was interested in a 30K boat and motor special, and we started playing the "How much trade" would my current rig be worth. Is the following realistic?

I know the old boat isn't worth anything - but the 70HP year 2000 Jonno was bought for $5,500 4 yrs ago, and she still runs like a dream. A brand new Swiftco trailer under her for $1500.00. The sales guy offered 2K without seeing the trade, and said my motor is "worth nothing" and within only 2 or 3 years it will only be good for scrap metal because of all the environmental and ecological impacts that high emission motors like mine are responsible for.

Is this alarm bells for all the other 2S carby motor owners, or is it scare mongering to get me to panic buy this guys new rig he is selling? I know I would make an environmental decision based on my own understanding and committment to helping clean up our waterways - by purchasing a new boat motor with a 3 star rating - but talking to the finance manager, it just aint going to happen - recent mechanical repairs to the 4WD has squashed any chance of that happening!!!

Talking to a very reputable service agent, he advises not to panic - there's plenty of life left in the 70HP Jonno yet, and one that he admires for it's robust construction.

Comments? How long have we really got?

Scalem

[Hamish73]

ages IMO
They still make carby 2S trail bike that are fully road registered, and there is no hint that they will be banned. I'm sure they would crack down on smokey 2s on the road before they would on the water.

[Mark-P]

ages IMO
They still make carby 2S trail bike that are fully road registered, and there is no hint that they will be banned. I'm sure they would crack down on smokey 2s on the road before they would on the water.

I dont think the only factor here is the air polution , water polution is the main problem we face in the future & our children God forbid !!!!

Mark

[Mark-P]

Scalem, you'll fined he will most likely put 3/ 4 k on it when he's selling it !

Mark

[Roughasguts]

Mate it's best not to have a carby anything, but there still cheaper than EFI.
So lawn mowers, brush cutters and cheaper outboards will still have Carby's it's a pitty really cause a carby motor will use a lot more fuel and be less reliable than an EFI motor.

[FNQCairns]

The salesman is full of it, absolutely no reason that engine wouldn't be doing what it is right now and doing it just as well in 10years time.

Unless you abuse it to death somehow.

A person would need to rip my old dirty 90hp from my cold dead hands to make me pay for one of the modern engines but of coarse if they were paying for it my grip would relax greatly:)

cheers fnq

[Spaniard_King]

With the government talking more and more about carbon emissions I wouldn't be supprised if we see a target date set to start reducing the amount of carby 2 strokes that are in use today. Having said that IMo the 2 stroke carby engine I feel will be able to be used for at least another 6-10 years

[Scalem]

With the government talking more and more about carbon emissions I wouldn't be supprised if we see a target date set to start reducing the amount of carby 2 strokes that are in use today. Having said that IMo the 2 stroke carby engine I feel will be able to be used for at least another 6-10 years

Hi Gary

By “Government” I think you are referring to the EPA? That’s what makes me nervous, if the EPA focus attention on the older Carby 2strokes it may be even more difficult to put up an argument than it is to contest the Green Zone proposals.
I hope you are right about 10 years more than I want to hear 6 years. Begs the question why any 2S owners really do a lot of preventative maintenance or spending lots of money maintaining them when you can start saving money to replace??

Scalem

[Spaniard_King]

Scalem,

The government has to decide on a target and a date for that target and then the EPA will decide what has to go first... the government agreeing on a target will be the first step to removing them:)

[Hamish73]

With the government talking more and more about carbon emissions I wouldn't be supprised if we see a target date set to start reducing the amount of carby 2 strokes that are in use today. Having said that IMo the 2 stroke carby engine I feel will be able to be used for at least another 6-10 years

they also tried that with the bike, the japanese manufacturers started rumours that 2 stroke motocross bikes would be banned by about 2008. I dont think it was a coincidence that some of the jap manufacturers stopped making 2 stroke bikes whilst the euro's continued. The fact that 4 stroke = a money tree for spare parts/service departments is also a major factor.

Good point re water pollution Mark. Does anyone here know much about pollution and emmisions? I assume that the emissions from 2 stroke smoke arent the same as those from burning petrol (which would be the same in either 2 or 4 stroke engines).

The other thing worth thinking about is the lack of catalytic converters in boat engines. Especially if the 'buy a 4 stroke or its your fault the planet is going to turn to shit' push continues. (not aimed at you Gary :) )

[Roughasguts]

So if there serious about banning the 2 banger! I hope there planning a buy back system like they did with fire arms not long ago. Or at least subsidised purchase of a 4 banger a bit like the gas conversion on your vehicle.

But hell that's not going to happen is it. Plus I would have to drop to a 70 HP cause me hull couldn't handle the weight of a new 90 Hp 4 stroke.

[ozbizweb]

So if there serious about banning the 2 banger! I hope there planning a buy back system like they did with fire arms not long ago. Or at least subsidised purchase of a 4 banger a bit like the gas conversion on your vehicle.

But hell that's not going to happen is it. Plus I would have to drop to a 70 HP cause me hull couldn't handle the weight of a new 90 Hp 4 stroke.

Legislation controls what we can buy new but in what practical way could they ban all of the motors currently in use?

No way. (I hope).

[BM]

Scalem,

I think it will be a very long time before the Government in Australia ever considers a ban on carby 2 strokes.

Something else to consider is that boating as a mode of transportation is a very small percentage of the overall figure. Possibly even statistically insignificant.

I believe its something like only 2% of the entire population is into boating. So only a few hundred thousand people. Compare that to the tens of millions of cars, trucks, motorbikes, whipper snippers, lawn mowers, chain saws etc etc

So don't worry about the scare mongering from lying salesmen.

Cheers

[Roughasguts]

You know I can't help to think Honda started this type of thinking in there marketing campaign.

I got a few Honda's and every motor sprooks about how quiet and how good they are for the enviroment.

After all they where first to have the 4 banger outboard, I think four banger M/cross as well. Happy to be corected there with the bike, I been out of bikes a long time.

The Americans seem to do the EPA thing miles ahead of the rest of the world and it's only just now there thiking 4 banger stuff, mind you that doesn't explain the Etec which may be my next motor, weight consideration only.

[Spaniard_King]

Rag,

You are right, Honda is backing the campaign to ban 2 strokes. Why wouldn't they?? they are pro 4 stroke anti polution etc etc. The big picture for them is sales.

Anyone have the figures for carby 2 stroke outboard sales against the more fuel efficient/less carbon emission engines. Have to be plenty of carby 2 strokes still being sold I recon

[Hamish73]

roughasguts, the euro were actually the pioneers of the hi po lightweight 4s mX bike, the likes of KTM, husqvarna and husaberg. Yamaha was the 1st jap manuafacturer to make a compettive 4s MXer, followed by Honda a few years later, but still way behind the 8 ball. Honda were the first to can the range of 2 stroke MXers and start the 'sell you 2 stroke now, you wont be able to buy oil for it in 2 years' smear campaign.

I think the even bigger picture for the 4s manufacturers is service, not sales.
Most engines are at a stage now where they 'should' last 10 years or more. Thats only one sale in 10 years, but how many hours of labour and parts can can they sell in that 10 year period to that owner, compared to what they could if it was a 2s? Thats where the licence to print money begins

[Scalem]

Scalem,

I think it will be a very long time before the Government in Australia ever considers a ban on carby 2 strokes.

Something else to consider is that boating as a mode of transportation is a very small percentage of the overall figure. Possibly even statistically insignificant.

I believe its something like only 2% of the entire population is into boating. So only a few hundred thousand people. Compare that to the tens of millions of cars, trucks, motorbikes, whipper snippers, lawn mowers, chain saws etc etc

So don't worry about the scare mongering from lying salesmen.

Cheers

None of the trucks/motorbikes etc have as much detrimental effect on water pollution as my dirty 2Stroke I can guarantee it. But you are talking about effect of Ozone degradation more than water quality. I recently bought one of those outboard flush bags you fill up, more for the purpose of tuning my motor myself - you can never get an accurate tune on the old earmuffs because of exhaust back pressure affecting the way the motor runs - anyway, we digress. After only 10 mins of running the motor in the flush bag, I was amazed at the amount of oily sludge floating on top of the water in the flush bag:o I can imagine an hour worth of motoring at 4000RPM on the water - Gary Fooks will have the stats, but it is not pretty!!!



Scalem

[Brumby]

I reckon you guys have called it right, we may see some restrictions on the sale of new 2 strokes down the line, but the existing ones will live out their lives.

Anyway, when I want info on something, just about the last person on earth I'll ask is a salesman who has an interest in the outcome!

[Roughasguts]

roughasguts, the euro were actually the pioneers of the hi po lightweight 4s mX bike, the likes of KTM, husqvarna and husaberg. Yamaha was the 1st jap manuafacturer to make a compettive 4s MXer, followed by Honda a few years later, but still way behind the 8 ball. Honda were the first to can the range of 2 stroke MXers and start the 'sell you 2 stroke now, you wont be able to buy oil for it in 2 years' smear campaign.

I think the even bigger picture for the 4s manufacturers is service, not sales.
Most engines are at a stage now where they 'should' last 10 years or more. Thats only one sale in 10 years, but how many hours of labour and parts can can they sell in that 10 year period to that owner, compared to what they could if it was a 2s? Thats where the licence to print money begins

Thank's Hamish.
Way after My time on the track.

I had an Elsinore Cr 125 M1 as me first M/crosser 1975 I think' then at the ripe old age of 14 needed more power and raced a TT 500D. Wow could that thing accelerate compared to a 2 stroke 125. I always led the pack until it was time to stop the damn thing at the end of the straight. Usually I ended up through tyre barriers or the bike resting between spectators vehicles.

So instead of a few memories all I really have is a lot of old injuries that come back to haunt me' so i'm carrying around them instead.:-/
All good fun though.

[Gary Fooks]

Well … here are the hard facts and a few opinions


2 stroke carb outboards are regulated out in the USA., Canada, Europe, Japan and a few countries in South America.


The reason is that their emissions are very high. A 15hp 2 stroke puts out more than double the emissions of a 3 star 150hp (e.g. E-TEC or Honda or Suzuki etc )

An Australian Federal govt panel met on this for most of 2006, publishing a report in 2007.

In February 2008 they started work on a cost benefit analysis as the next step toward regulation. When?


As early as 2010 but for sure by 2016.

Nothing you buy now will be “banned”. Just like when they brought in emissions standards on cars they didn’t ban the old cars. In fact we had new car emissions regulations commencing 1 Jan 2008 and I bet few people noticed.

Sales ? The last released numbers were for 2005 when 63% of sales were high emission engines. That has dropped a little since then.

If you have any specific questions I am happy to help

Gary
0412 111 573 g.fooks@uq.net.au

[Gary Fooks]

PS - outdoor garden equipment are being worked on at the same time. Lawn Mowers etc etc.

There are emisions regulations on motorcycles in the US and maybe other countries. I have hearn no moves here.

Gary