flares out of date

[grey_inflatable]

Hi all, on new years eve i ask what the go was with letting a flare off at midnight and the worst thing that came up was a year in JAIL.

Well that seams abit rich for testing the gear you may use to save your life and the rest of the crew in the western suburbs of bris . A few peaple also said that the VMR had days for peaple to bring there old flares to see how they work.

any one know when the next one is because im keen to try my out of daties .
i have put one in the prame bag for when i push the young feller in case a dog goes us. i recon it would put a dog off, a blowing flare but now im pushing for a nail gun and a compresor as well but thats a whole diferent story

thanks guys and girls cheers to all

[haggis]

I gave my flares to the Redland bay vmr about three weeks ago .
the old fella on duty said that they keep them till they get enough of them then they call up a mining company who then come out & collect them so as they can dispose of them safely .
cheers fae haggis .

[dogsbody]

Don't know when an event is on, but i get the impression your itching to spark one of those babies up. ;D

If a dog goes you i don't think you'll have time to fiddle trying to light up. That dog want a piece of the Grey Inflatable and he wants it now! GRRRR



Dave.

[disorderly]

I dont know how they work as a dog deterrent but letting some off at night can be fun for the kids.
I've never thrown an out of date flare out and they were starting to take up space in the closet so over the last 3 or 4 weeks me and the kids have been smoking up the night sky(we live out of town).
Some of these suckers date back to 1976....and would you believe it the oldest of all still ignited with the scratchy thing..not as strong and glarey as the newer ones but they burnt quite a bit longer.
Some of the newer ones required sticking the ends in a fire to get them going but all good harmless fun.
That's as close as my kids will ever get to the cracker nights of the good old days.http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/sad.gif

scott

[seatime]

grey_inflate, here's an example of when flare demo's are conducted:
http://www.msq.qld.gov.au/resources/file/ebff0803031ad29/Pdf_ntm_114_t_2008.pdf
either check the Notices to Mariners or contact a local VMR or AVCG.
It's not advisable to let them off if it isn't a marine distress situation, not saying it isn't fun, it's just not a good idea, in the wrong hands it could be dangerous.

haggis, mining company's don't collect expired marine distress flares, the state gov't dept that's responsible for explosives does - Dept of Natural Resources, Mining and Energy or whatever they call themselves now. Distress Flares come under the Explosives Act 1999 and Mining Inspectors pick them up out of wheelie bins from around the drop-off locations (VMR, Fire Stations, Police, etc).

cheers
Steve

[haggis]

gelsec wasnt sure what to do with them so gave them to redlands vmr & that is what they told me happened .
cheers haggis .

[Local_Guy]

save them for New Years Eve celebrations.... when i lived in Redcliffe on new years eve we saw flares being lit from the islands and up to Scarbrough and down to woody point from our balcony.

[onerabbit]

I was at a New Years party about 16 years ago & a friend thought it would be fun to let go an old "parachute" type flare, ( we were way out in the bush so no repercussions there ).

The bloody thing went off ok, straight up, & then straight down, no parachute as such, right in the middle of a crowd, very lucky no-one was hurt.

Muzz

[Fafnir]

save them for New Years Eve celebrations.... when i lived in Redcliffe on new years eve we saw flares being lit from the islands and up to Scarbrough and down to woody point from our balcony.


Wouldn't want to be in a sinking boat around midnight would you? Not much chance of someone coming to your rescue even if they saw your flare.

[MTAQ/BTAQ]

As well as VMR having "flare days", many high schools that teach marine studies also have a marine safety day where students have to capsize and right tinnies, capsize and right kayaks, board 8 man life rafts after swimming to it in linked groups of 8 (like WH&S at Sea course), build a "raft" from wooden planks, rope and 22 litre drums then paddle around a course - quickest and driest wins (listed on Reports to Mariners) - also I get a flare permit from noon to 12.20 and we set off red and orange flares. We also get "talks" from Fisheries, local Firies and MSQ on safety enforcement - we aim to produce safe mariners for tomorrow.

We have our Brisbane North marine safety day on a school day (students have all day off theory to do practical stuff) in October at Scarborough Boat Harbour.

Any excess flares are handed into VMR or fire brigade

[grey_inflatable]

thanks dogsbody ,i am itching to spark one of those babies up.

so keen iv thought of letting it off in the shed. but not that i did set one off on new years just so much smoke the neibours will be smoked out cheers all

[banshee]

It cost a local bloke in the woodburn/evans area a neat grand last new year plus he had to find someone to bail him out at 1am.

[steve99]

Locked up for letting off a flare . Sounds a bit rich to me.

I'll stay away from NSW next time i've got old dated flares to destroy

[QF3 MROCP]

If you're in the Redcliffe region, flares can be left at the Coast Guard station next to the Scarborough boat ramp. They have a bin which is under lock and key and when full, is disposed of by the QLD Govt Mines dept.

What's a worry is how everyone seams to take the issue of letting them off for fun a big joke...

Believe me, sitting on radio watch and getting a flare sighting report at 23:30 on a Friday night is not taken lightly by ANY of the VMR's or Water Police... or are we expected to just consider it another "boy cry wolf" situation! - I just hope none of you ever next assistance based on this approach. A radio officer has to activate (notify) the base commander / water police and possibly get a boat crew out of bed to start a search.. all good fun.. I think not!!

Flares are there for a reason and it ain't for fireworks night for the kids...

Have a safe day boating....

[steve99]

letting off old flares in the vicinity of water, or in places were it could be considered a distress call is indeed foolish. I dont think there would be too many people that would consider that a big joke.

The unnessecary mobilising of rescue services should be avoided at all costs. They have a job, which difficult enough,without having to worry about false alarms perpetuated by idiots.

However, I cant see the harm in letting off a few old flares ( handheld ) while in remote locations away from the crowds

Should we really have to rely on the Qld Government to dispose of old flares ??????

[roz]

Wouldn't want to be in a sinking boat around midnight would you? Not much chance of someone coming to your rescue even if they saw your flare.

Don't want to be in the 'fun police' but.....would agree here, we saw one from out on the deck one evening and thought someone was just having a bit of fun, turned out to be the real thing.

Letting off flares for fun can back fire... trust me I know!!!!

Let one off in my back yard one night, an orange smoke flare... Well, I didn't close the back door and I also didn't notice which way the wind was blowing. Is that karma????:-[

roz:D

[Xahn1960]

Interesting Thread.... Hadn't even thought of checking the flares for expiry date..

[Vindicator]

I've let a few off here at home from time to time. But then again I'm half an hour away from the coast and in the middle of 100 acres. Don't think anyones going to come rushing to my aid.

Cheers
Kezza

[charleville]

However, I cant see the harm in letting off a few old flares ( handheld ) while in remote locations away from the crowds


Do people other than boaties carry flares? - eg light aircraft (or bush walkers?) who might set one off when crashed in a remote area and who are trying to attract the attention of search aircraft.

I don't know - just asking because there is a consistent thread in these discussions that as long as you are away from the ocean then it cannot be all bad?

[charleville]

Interesting Thread.... Hadn't even thought of checking the flares for expiry date..



The expiry date on flares is the first thing that the water police and marine safety inspectors will check on when they pull alongside your boat - which they do pretty frequently in Moreton Bay.

[QF3 MROCP]

Steve 99:
Quoting from the MSQ Small Ship Handbook:

Effective range of flares in conditions of good visibility are:
At Night;
Parachute Flare - 25 to 35n miles (or approx 45km - 60km)
Hand Flare - 5 to 10n miles

By Day;
Orange smoke - very limited, up to 1.4n miles, better from air
Red (hand and parachute) - may attract attention by day

There are severe penalties for misuse of flares and any offender may also face the costs of labour undertaken, risk incurred or loss sustained in consequence of misuse.

Please ALL remember, it's not only land or water base sightings that take place - aircraft flying overhead also monitor and report flare sightings (flying 360 degree to observe further sightings) while monitor your EPIRBS 121.5Mhz

[grey_inflatable]

well it seems that alot of us are ceen to, and are setting off flares maybe some one on here who is in the vmr.
could organise a day for us pyiros to set them off.

i was keen to know how they worked ETC how long it lasts for will it try to fly out of mty hand will it start a fire if leaky feul does it put off sparks that would not be good for my inflatble and a few other reason.

because on the day you need it. it would be a bugger if you stuffed it.......,,,,,, because you had never used one before i think its a saftey thing to know how your gear works

[disorderly]

Flares are there for a reason and it ain't for fireworks night for the kids...



I probably should have added that I live 20 km's inland on a bush block...no planes overhead or close neighbourshttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/smiley.gif.

[subzero]

well it seems that alot of us are ceen to, and are setting off flares maybe some one on here who is in the vmr.
could organise a day for us pyiros to set them off

Have a look at this post today by dnej, he is interested in getting something going at VMR Jacobs Well.

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=125499

Cheers Lloyd

[Mike Banks]

Flares, unlike the ordinary skyrockets used at fairgrounds etc are designed to burn for as long as possible--especially if of the parachute variety. This means they are often still alight when they come down. Not a problem if they land in water--but a very real problem in bushland or someone's property. A timberyard springs to mind--I once saw a parachute flare land in one. Fortunately it did not land on a stack of timber.

I would not like to have the long-burning stars from a rocket land in a crowd. Some nasty burn potential there, even if the casing did not wallop someone.

[Foxy4]

I see this one where DNEJ is trying to get some takers in a Flare day


(http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/member.php?u=33762)


http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/misc/_postbitspacer.gif

VMR Jacobs Flare Day
I am trying to organise a flare day at Jocobs Well VMR.

Any one interested in physically using a flare or two,could you indicate here,and then send me a PM.

Seems even the officers would like to do the same thing also,as most have not had the opportunity either.
Regards David

[dnej]

Have 4 starters for the day so far. No punn intended.
David

[grey_inflatable]

well that looks great but. i think most of us are keen just to try the normal hand flares not ones that shoot up in the air.

Lets have a safe time using them and i think thats a great idea to show how the fire fighting gear works who knows this could be a annual thing great for the family so we can all learn abit more saftey and a few extra skills a practice with the anchor recovory knots tied and a demo onhow to use the two way radio, i had to have this grand vhf hand held but been off the beach and have never used it. i think i know what im meant to say but pracitce gives confidence two way thanks guys but also lets keep it simple so it happens cheers all

[bayfisher]

Curiosity got the better of me about 2 or 3 years ago and i let one off in the back yard in the middle of the day. :o Boy... they but out a LOT of smoke and you cant really put them out once you light one (i tried with a hose), the neighbor though the house was on fire ;D . Was the exercise worth wile? well sure now i know what I'm in for if i ever have to use one.

[bayfisher]

ps... setting one off in the shed is not a good idea ;D

[Castaway]

OUR STORY

1. Fool sets off flare for kicks or to entertain kids (that probably didn't have to know what a flare was in the first place at their age)

2. Flare is sighted by concerned people in community who advise local police, VMR etc

3. The searchers are taken from their family time (which some of us treasure) to go searching for some person in distress - a job we happily do for the genuine!

4. After hours of searching and at a great cost (including choppers) someone has to make the decision after finding nothing that PERHAPS it was just some fool entertaining their kids and PERHAPS there is really not someone swanning about in the ocean and PERHAPS I can call off all the searchers and PERHAPS I can go back to bed and try to get some sleep knowing there REALLY ISN'T someone still struggling for breath in the water waiting to become shark poo.

5. Wake up in morning after a crappy nights sleep and put TV and Radio on to hear if anyone got into trouble last night or didn't return from their fishing trip.

6. Buy paper for the next few days waiting to see if your decision to call off search was a good one.

7. Realise you house and all you have worked hard for is safe and you are not going to get sued by some family missing a relative.


YOUR STORY

1. Let off flares
2. Kids all laugh and think your cool for a minute or two
3. Go to bed - 'without a care in the world'


HOW ABOUT DROPPING THE FLARES OFF FOR DISPOSAL OR COME AND GIVE THE SEARCHERS A HAND NEXT TIME A FLARE IS SPOTTED AND SHARE IN THE RESPONSIBILITY OF MAKING DECISIONS THAT ULTIMATELY EFFECT PEOPLES LIVES.

[seamaid]

:o
I wont debate in the practice of lighting out of date flares, however there is adquate instructions on each indivual distress flare, if any boatie is not confident following these instructions, go to a VMR practice demo, as in this post advised.
When purchasing up date flares or Epirb check dates, make sure your getting the full usage prior of expiary date.
Another bring up is, do not keep out of date flares for spares some boaties have even after being told, now lighter in the pocket.
V M R member 38 year
cheers ged

[QF3 MROCP]

Thanks ged

Peter

[JEWIENEWIE]

I am keen as to let one go to but i see letting off a flare of any type in any area is like making a prank 000 call.
But if there is a day where we can legally let them off, i will be there with bells on!!
Jewie

[Pelagic 660]

letting off old flares in the vicinity of water, or in places were it could be considered a distress call is indeed foolish. I dont think there would be too many people that would consider that a big joke.

The unnessecary mobilising of rescue services should be avoided at all costs. They have a job, which difficult enough,without having to worry about false alarms perpetuated by idiots.

However, I cant see the harm in letting off a few old flares ( handheld ) while in remote locations away from the crowds

Should we really have to rely on the Qld Government to dispose of old flares ??????
YES rely on them (QG) it keeps me in a job!! The problem is that not all people understand the risks of letting flares off in regional areas or at parties when people seem invisible after a few drinks. I'm sure the rural fire service would disagree that it is Ok to let these of in the scrub. I have some pics somewhere and I will try and find them. they show some snapperhead letting a para flare off and he copped it in the face,MESSY.
I agree the rescue guys have enough to do than respond to snapperheads on new years. KEEP THEM FOR EMERGENCIES.
Thats my 10 cents and yes i will get off the soap box.

[reilly]

Well I fish offshore and I've been told to keep the out of date flares on board as there might be a day they save your life when the indate flares are missed so yo have more than 6 chances to be seen. I keep then in a separate Tupperware box from the old ones.

[seatime]

G'day,
I don't agree with the notion that carrying expired flares along with in-date flares might save your life some day. My concern is that if people are told they can keep them onboard even for 3 years after expiry, they'll keep them for 33yrs thinking their rescue chances are enhanced somehow. Marine distress flares carry an expiry date for good reason, they can deteriorate and become dangerous outside of their lifespan.
A vessel in distress needs to be in sight of other vessels or dwellings on the land for handheld flares to be most useful. Handheld flares won't be much help to attract attention way offshore if there's no-one around, that's where a VHF radio and/or an EPIRB are used, flares will then assist the searchers to pinpoint your location. Parachute flares are a recommended addition for offshore fishing & boating.
In inshore waters there's a greater chance of flares being seen with land closer and more traffic. If the first 2-4 flares haven't been seen, what's the chance of any others being seen. Also, if you only have one chance to grab a flare and light it, you will want to grab a flare that has the best chance of igniting, an in-date one.
Only my opinions,
regards

[seamaid]

Well I fish offshore and I've been told to keep the out of date flares on board as there might be a day they save your life when the indate flares are missed so yo have more than 6 chances to be seen. I keep then in a separate Tupperware box from the old ones.
:o Hi Reilly
Nice Location
For information regarding the above please contact your local VMR, Water Police or DPI, In QLD ITS A NO,NO
Please get back to this post of results8-)
Cheers Ged

[reilly]

This is straight out of NSW Boating Handbook R/T Flares

Flares
Flares signal that you are in trouble and provide an exact location for searching aircraft or vessels. Only ignite them when rescuers are in view and can spot your flare.
A minimum of two red hand flares (for night or day use) and two orange smoke
flares (for day use) are required to be carried on all vessels operating offshore.
It is also recommended that vessels operating offshore or in remote areas carry parachute flares.

You should be able to locate and ignite the correct flare in total darkness.

Most flares have a use-by date of three years and they should be replaced. before the expiry date

If your old flares appear to be in good condition keep them onboard as a backup.

Once they start to look damaged, enquire with the manufacturer about the best means of disposal. Don’t put them in the garbage or take
them to the tip.

Note: It is an offence to set off flares except in an emergency.

[reilly]

:o Hi Reilly
Nice Location
For information regarding the above please contact your local VMR, Water Police or DPI, In QLD ITS A NO,NO
Please get back to this post of results8-)
Cheers Ged

Ged No worries

Yeah I love it here been here 20yrs Moved to Rainbow Beach a few years ago came back though.
The fishing been a bit hit or miss of late mostly due to weather been snagging a few school jew and reds offshore and weather permitting the odd dolphin fish.

The game fish tornarment was a write off & will be won one on a days fishing not that i entered looking forward to the Trailer Boat fishing Comp mid march hope the weather behaves.;D

[seamaid]

;D Hi Reilly
Fishing, well getting a feed when we can get out, weather been shocking recently, down graded the 7meter to 4.55, this restrics me to the outer reefs.
REILLY---ive read your last post on keeping out of date flares, it still would be wise to get the information from the MARITIME SAFETY IN YOUR STATE.
Below is a attachment, hope it goes through .Cheers Ged

[bayfisher]

;D Hi Reilly
Fishing, well getting a feed when we can get out, weather been shocking recently, down graded the 7meter to 4.55, this restrics me to the outer reefs.
REILLY---ive read your last post on keeping out of date flares, it still would be wise to get the information from the MARITIME SAFETY IN YOUR STATE.
Below is a attachment, hope it goes through .Cheers Ged

I can read anywhere on that sticker that you cant keep you old ones as a backup :-/ . It does say having expired flares is the same as not having flares but it does not say if you have an in date set you cant keep an out of date set as backup?

[bayfisher]

I cant find anywhere on the msq website where it saids you cant keep old flares on board all it saids is they are not considered as part of the safety equipment if they are out of date. Is there somewhere it definitely states i cant keep expired on board???

Cheers Chris

[seatime]

I've deleted my name and another's name for personal reasons from the email below.

20 March 2006

##########

Thank you for yoxu: enquiries of 31 January and 8 February 2006 regarding Maritime Safety
Queensland policy on the disposal of flares that have passed their expiiy date. I also understand that
you have spoken to a number of other state and federal maritime safety organisations and safety
equipment manufacturers regarding their policies on ©cpired flares and that they have all given you
their respective opinions on this matter.

Firstly, may I make it clear that Maritime Safety Queensland's position on this issue is that flares,
once expired, should be removed from a vessel and be disposed of appropriately. This is consistent
with the advice provided at pages 22 and 23 of the "Guide to Recreational Boating and Fishing in
Queensland".
As indicated by #####, the Transport Operations (Marine Safety) Regulation 2004 only
requires that a person carry flares that are in date; it doesnt specifically address the case where a
person is carrying in date flares, thereby meeting their safety equipment carriage requirement, while
continuing to carry expired flares. While, depending on the circumstances, the carriage of expired
flares could amount to a breach of the operator's general safety obligation, it is not, strictly speaking, a
breach of the carriage of safety eqmpment requirements outlined in section 44 of the Transport
Operations (Marine Safety) Act and section 31 of the Transport Operations (Marine Safety)
Regulation 2004.
However, as I have indicated above, it is Maritime Safety Queensland's position that flares be
disposed of in the approved way as soon as possible after they expire.

Office of the General Manager
Floor 26 Mineral House Enquiries John Watkinson
41 George Street Brisbane Qld 4000 Telephone -fSI 7 3120 7477
GPO Box 2595 Brisbane Qid 4001 Facsimile +61 7 3120 7499
ABN 13 200 330 520 Website www.msq.qld.gov.au (http://www.msq.qld.gov.au)
Email john.r.watkinson@msq.qid.gov.au

Yours sincerely
Captain John Watkinson
General Manager

Other replies recieved:

Pains Wessex advises - expired flares should be disposed of appropriately.

Australian Maritime Safety Authority (responsible for Search & Rescue in Aus waters) advises - expired flares on board are a breach of safety regulations as regards Aus & International ships.

National Marine Safety Commitee (comprising representatives from every State & Territory's gov't marine agency) advises - expired flares on board breach the National Standard for Recreational Boat Safety Equipment.

Qld Dept Natural Resources, Mines & Energy advises - it is an offence to use or possess expired flares in a public place (Explosives Act).

3 Insurance Co's replied that policies are voided if safety breaches are found.

Of all the respondents, only NSW Maritime endorsed the practice??

Similar to carrying non-compliant PFD's in addition to compliant ones, carrying expired flares as safety extra's could result in a breach of your "General Safety Obligation".
In the end though, it's the skipper's responsibility and judgement as to how he equips his boat safely.

regards

[disorderly]

G'day,
Marine distress flares carry an expiry date for good reason, they can deteriorate and become dangerous outside of their lifespan.


Just interested in why you believe an expired flare is dangerous?.
I fail to see any way that the flare can self ignite, so what is the problem?.
Regardless of these laws I will continue to carry the previous set of expired flares as a backup....who knows they might just come in handy one day.

Scott

[seatime]

Just interested in why you believe an expired flare is dangerous?.
I fail to see any way that the flare can self ignite, so what is the problem?.
Regardless of these laws I will continue to carry the previous set of expired flares as a backup....who knows they might just come in handy one day.

Scott

Because that's the advise I've been given by the manufacturers and the Chief Inspector of Mines. They are the experts and it would be best if you contact them for explanations on propellants and chemistry.

I wanted to share with readers the information I gathered when researching this topic 2 years ago.

Ultimately the choice is your's, and you've already stated you'll carry them regardless....

cheers
Steve :)