Optimax vs 4-stroke?

[wheezer]

in the process of getting a 28 foot Seatime centre cab built by Williams Marine on the gold coast. it will have a twin outboard engine setup. at this stage we are leaning towards twin Merc 250hp Optis....can anyone point me in the right direction of accurate and non biased comparisons between optis and 4 strokes? i've done a bit of a google search and haven't managed to come up with anything...The boat will eventually see duty as a charter boat and as such we need to choose the right motors for the boat preferably the first time around!

[Jabba_]

A 2stroke fires on every 2nd stroke, were a 4stroke fires on evry 4th.... Therefore 2strokes produce more torque then a 4st, while the 2st Opti's and E-tec use similar amount of fuel as the 4st.... The advantage with a 2st, because it produces more torque, you can run a bigger pitch prop then you could on a 4st the same size.. That equals better economy, higher cruise speed and faster top speed

[Mac_Attack]

The Advantage of a Optimax or E-Tec 2-Stroke more torque better fuel econonmy then some 4-strokes and they can troll and idle all day long without running rough and they are easier to maintain can't argue with that can you!
Nothing wrong with 4-strokes but some 2-stroke's can do everything a 4-stroke can and in some cases do it better ;D
GO 2-STROKES!
Cheers Nick 8-)

[Noelm]

OK here goes my standatrd reply forget the brand or operating principal, they are all good and will all return about the same fuel figures for the same HP, servicing will even out over a few years, with one using oil and the other needing it changed with a filter, so, let the Dealer experience be the decider, no use having the best (perceived) Motor in the World if it is a headache everytime you need a routine service or repairs (all things can break, even a Rolls Royce) so as long as the dealer is reasonably nearby, has a good service and parts area, and will treat you well later ,not just when you buy the Motor, everyone treats you good when you have a wallet full of cash!!! it will pay off down the track when it comes time for upgrades/trade in or accessories, a few dollars saved now can cost you dearly later on! you will never get a yes/no to the 2 V 4 stroke thing or Opti V etec or anything else.

[Smithy]

On the torque issue, in my experience on the open ocean in swells, you will find yourself having to use the throttle more with a 2 stroke (yes even DFI 2 strokes) than a 4 stroke. Your boat will also want to run away on you more downsea with a 2 stoke then when you hit the back of one it will die in the arse a lot more with a 2 stroke. I don't know why that is, but it just is. Maybe 4 strokes run bigger flywheels or something and that gives them the momentum to push through a swell without varying the revs as much. They won't race away on you as much downsea either. That is one of the reasons I am a 4 stroke man along with the smell issue, noise issue and vibration issue, etc. I will give them their due, DFI 2 strokes probably return better fuel figures in some cases than 4 strokes but there is more to the equation than that.

In your case with a 28' boat you are not going to have to play with your throttles much at all. It will be pretty much point and shoot and then on autopilot as well I guess.

[megafish71]

On the torque issue, in my experience on the open ocean in swells, you will find yourself having to use the throttle more with a 2 stroke (yes even DFI 2 strokes) than a 4 stroke. Your boat will also want to run away on you more downsea with a 2 stoke then when you hit the back of one it will die in the arse a lot more with a 2 stroke. I don't know why that is, but it just is. Maybe 4 strokes run bigger flywheels or something and that gives them the momentum to push through a swell without varying the revs as much. They won't race away on you as much downsea either. That is one of the reasons I am a 4 stroke man along with the smell issue, noise issue and vibration issue, etc. I will give them their due, DFI 2 strokes probably return better fuel figures in some cases than 4 strokes but there is more to the equation than that.




Thanks Smithy, that has also been my experience with DFI 2 strokes aswell, don't know that I could have explained it that well though.

Ron

[cormorant]

Think about making sure your tanks and set up are suitable for deisel as those MEG outboards are going to be a big hit in the next couple of years. They will be out in a few months and with deisel rebate in Australia it will make a huge difference in fuel costs.

As for the others - warranty warranty - service service service- local dealer local dealer and business insurance for downtime due to motor issues.

[Wahoo]

optis would be great on a charter boat, but the Verados would be better ;D


Daz

[finding_time]

Wheezer

Give the bomber a Pm he has a 685 cruisecraft and has had both a 200 opti on the back and a 225 suki and will be able to give you a direct comparison between the 2 motors ( unlike some) and how each one differed in differant conditions!

Here's a link to the bomber

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/z/the_bomber/

Cheers Ian

[ozbee]

main thing you have to remember is if heading into charter is will it get up on one motor if in trouble a di two stroke will piss over any fourstroke in lifting ability and it may be best to go for largest cube size for that horsepower as for di racing that's bullshit ever seen a diesel race off faster than a petrol car engine on a down hill run .. i own a 250 di and the greatest thing is they push up and and through waves and they dont change a rev cause they have so much torque. so just sit back and let it drive.

[Jabba_]

optis would be great on a charter boat, but the Verados would be better ;D


DazVerardo are beautifull and that supercharger is the bells and whistles...... And they have the torque to boot anything out off the water....

[Fish Guts]

i dont want to start a war here, but i would not suggest putting on twin 250 optis on it, especially if it will be operating commerically down the track, with a heap of hours. I have nothing wrong with the optis but at the end of the day its a 2 stroke. In all honestly the boat in question will go like a cut snake whether its 2 stroke or 4 stroke with that setup and dont be bluffed into thinkg the 4's dont have torque. i think smithy made a valid point regarding touching the throttles, that was the one thing i appreciated the most going from a 2 stroke to a 4 strokes was the vvt and no hassle with touching the throttles, where as the 2 stokes used to run to fast and bog down and would always require working the throttles.

the main thing id be looking at is fuel economy. the 4 strokes will undoubtedly win hands down in fuel economy over twin 250 optis optis. a pair of 250 zukes chew approx 55litres an hour at 4000rpm, i really dont think the optis would get near that. plus factor in oil. theres not many commercial applications running 2strokes and 90% id say 4 stroke suzis, that should give you an indication.

cheers

fish guts

[Fish Guts]

main thing you have to remember is if heading into charter is will it get up on one motor if in trouble a di two stroke will piss over any fourstroke in lifting ability and it may be best to go for largest cube size for that horsepower as for di racing that's bullshit ever seen a diesel race off faster than a petrol car engine on a down hill run .. i own a 250 di and the greatest thing is they push up and and through waves and they dont change a rev cause they have so much torque. so just sit back and let it drive.

what a crok of sh*&.

[bobp]

Verardo are beautifull and that supercharger is the bells and whistles...... And they have the torque to boot anything out off the water....

i agree go the verado few more $$$ but you get alot more DTS /vessel view /power steering and the torque that you would not believe

bob

[bobp]

i dont want to start a war here, but i would not suggest putting on twin 250 optis on it, especially if it will be operating commerically down the track, with a heap of hours. I have nothing wrong with the optis but at the end of the day its a 2 stroke. In all honestly the boat in question will go like a cut snake whether its 2 stroke or 4 stroke with that setup and dont be bluffed into thinkg the 4's dont have torque. i think smithy made a valid point regarding touching the throttles, that was the one thing i appreciated the most going from a 2 stroke to a 4 strokes was the vvt and no hassle with touching the throttles, where as the 2 stokes used to run to fast and bog down and would always require working the throttles.

the main thing id be looking at is fuel economy. the 4 strokes will undoubtedly win hands down in fuel economy over twin 250 optis optis. a pair of 250 zukes chew approx 55litres an hour at 4000rpm, i really dont think the optis would get near that. plus factor in oil. theres not many commercial applications running 2strokes and 90% id say 4 stroke suzis, that should give you an indication.

cheers

fish guts

i agree but the opti are known for there fuel ecom. just a shame that the oil is so exy and if you do a lot of hours in the higher rpm range it does add up

bob

[wheezer]

after doing more research it appears the merc website is wrong. they only offer the 250 opti in the pro XS race version, wayyy more expensive and only 1 year warranty...so at this stage looking at 225's...after doing some more digging around it looks like we can expect fuel consumption around 55 LPH at 4000rpm for the pair...intend to carry spare lower pitch props in case have to get back in on 1 motor...the intention behind putting so much power on the boat is not so we can get around at warp speed, but so that the motors will be doing it easy and there will be power on tap when it may be needed

[Rock Crab]

Go with the Merc 250 hp 4 stroke Verado. Beautiful quiet, clean running motors with heaps of grunt and no oil fumes whatsoever to smell unlike DFI 2 strokes which are noisier and still exhibit oil fume smells. Although to the old sea dog this will not be a problem but put a 1st timer on a charter with a little bit of swell about and those fumes will send them green for sure !

[Mr__Bean]

....intend to carry spare lower pitch props in case have to get back in on 1 motor....


Jeepers I have enough trouble leaning out over the motor and clearing line off the prob or releasing the anchor retreiver if we float over the anchor line when setting it, couldn't see myself attempting a prop change out in the water that a 28 footer will take you to.

- Darren

[Wahoo]

after doing more research it appears the merc website is wrong. they only offer the 250 opti in the pro XS race version, wayyy more expensive and only 1 year warranty...so at this stage looking at 225's...after doing some more digging around it looks like we can expect fuel consumption around 55 LPH at 4000rpm for the pair...intend to carry spare lower pitch props in case have to get back in on 1 motor...the intention behind putting so much power on the boat is not so we can get around at warp speed, but so that the motors will be doing it easy and there will be power on tap when it may be needed

im sure they make a 250 not in the XS


250hp Detailed Specificationshttp://www.mercurymarine.com.au/icons/ecblank.gif Propshaft Rated Horsepower:
250 HP (187 kw)
Max RPM at Full Throttle:
5500 - 6000
Cylinders:
V-6 (60 deg vee)
Displacement:
185 cu in. (3032cc)
Bore & Stroke:
3.63 in. x 3.00 in. (92mm x 76mm)
Cooling System:
Water cooled with thermostat and pressure controlled
Ignition:
PCM 07 multi-strike
Starting:
Electric (turnkey)
Gear Ratio:
1.75.1
Gear Shift:
F-N-R
Steering:
Remote
Alternator System:
Belt-driven 60 amp (756 watt)
Trim Positions:
Power trim
Exhaust System:
Through prop
Lubrication System:
Electronic multipoint oil injection
Recommended Oil:
Mercury Premium Plus
Fuel Induction System:
2-stage direct fuel injection
Shaft Length:
25 in x 30 in (635 x 762mm)
Dry Weight:
505 lbs (229kg)
Operator Warning System:
Overheat, low water pressure, low oil, oil pump, TPSMAP, Engine Guardian
Available Propellers:
Consult current dealer propeller guide
SmartCraft:
Yes
CARB Star Rating:
3
Warranty:
3 years
Corrosion Warranty:
3 years
Ethanol Tolerance
10%
Features and Benefits
The new 250hp OptiMax delivers more low-end and mid-range power.
The OptiMax low-pressure epitomizer fuel system matches, and even surpasses the fuel efficiency of many of
today’s large four-strokes.
Compared to traditional two-strokes, the OptiMax fuel system uses as much as 45 percent less fuel for the same running period.
Mercury’s new 250hp Optimax outboard is also backed by an industry leading three year factory and three year corrosion warranty, and supported by Australia’s largest dealer network

[wheezer]

hi wahoo, yes that is what is listed on the merc website...a ring around to various dealers in the brisbane area and they all said the same thing...no such motor only the hi performance one...surely the dealers know whats going on? maybe i should contact mercury..

[Wahoo]

hi wahoo, yes that is what is listed on the merc website...a ring around to various dealers in the brisbane area and they all said the same thing...no such motor only the hi performance one...surely the dealers know whats going on? maybe i should contact mercury..


here is the pro XS in the 250, the other is just an opti, did you get to make a call and find out?


VIEW LARGER IMAGE (http://www.mercurymarine.com/_media/images/engines/outboards/optimax/optimax250proxs.jpg)
Mercury OptiMax 250 Pro XS Specifications

HP @ Prop 250 kW @ Prop 187 Max RPM (WOT) 5500-6000 Cylinder/Configuration V-6 (60 degree vee) Displacement (CID/cc) 185.9/3032 Bore & Stroke (in) 3.63 x 3.00 Bore & Stroke (mm) 92 x 76 Cooling System Water cooled with thermostat & pressure controlled Ignition System PCM 07 Starting Electric (turn-key) Gear Ratio 1.75:1 Gear Shift F-N-R Steering Remote Alternator Amp 60 (belt-driven) Alternator Watt 756 (belt-driven) Trim System Power trim Exhaust System Through prop Lubrication System Electronic multipoint oil injection Recommended Oil Mercury Premium Plus Fuel Induction System 2-stage direct fuel injection Shaft Length (inches) 20/25 Shaft Length (mm) 508/635 Dry Weight (lbs.) 505 Dry Weight (kg.) 229 Operator Warning System Overheat, low water pressure, low oil, oil pump, TPSMAP, Engine Guardian Available Propellers Consult current dealer propeller guide SmartCraft Yes CARB Star Rating 3 Warranty 3 years Corrosion Warranty 3 years Ethanol Tolerance

[borrie01]

hi mate why not consider the big new 350hp v8 yammy 4 stroke had the chance of having a run in a 8 metre glassy and it was unreal so much torque over the hole rev range very impressive engine would be hard too compare anything too that
cheers

[insideout]

250 o/b prices (estimate only!!!) prices will vary..

evinrude etec $26,500
mercury xl efi $22,500
mercury optimax $28,300
mercury verado xl $30, 700
suzuki $27,200
yamaha $26,200

300 o/b estimates
mercury verado $34,600
suzuki $32,200
yamaha ???????

yamaha 350 $37,100

These are estimates only!!!

[wheezer]

kinda prefer the idea of twins, kind of like having 2 real big auxillaries! can get twin 225 optis fitted with hydro steering, stainless props, smart craft gauges etc for about 44-45K...

hi wahoo, yes i've checked out the merc website thorughly! it does indicate that there is both a Pro XS and standard model in 250hp, but the dealers are telling me otherwise...there is no contact for mercury on the website, not even an email address!

[Luke G]

Wheezer I would look at the 250 Suzuki for your boat especialy if you were planing to keep them a while. Lightest 4 stroke in its class, Timing chain, swings a bigger prop and unbeatable fuel economy. We had a 250 on our old boat and it was brilliant, the local rescue boat put 2 on the back of there new rig and they have been flawless too.

Cheers

[Wahoo]

Hi Mate, ring 1223 and give them these details, they will put u on to Merc
Regional Head Office Melbourne Office132 - 140 Frankston/Dandenong Roadhttp://www.mercurymarine.com.au/icons/ecblank.gif Dandenong Victoria 3175http://www.mercurymarine.com.au/icons/ecblank.gif Postal Address:Private Bag 1420, Dandenong South

[Wahoo]

before you go out and spend the $$$$$$on other motors,( not bagging other motors ) try or even beg to go for a run in a Verado set up, the proformance of these things will really blow you away, i really hope you have a chance to get to go for a run in one,

Daz