Charter operators doing it tough?

[whichway]

Hi

With the windy weather so far this year, I guess that there must be a lot of cancelled charters, or are they going out anyway just to keep the revenue up

Hope the wind dies down for a while soon.

Whichway

[Lucky_Phill]

Like any business, there is always an element of risk involved.

The Fishing Charter business is at the high end of the risk scale and one can live and die by conditions totally outside of your control.

Weather

Fish

Clients

Boat

I believe that most operators have a ' second or alternative ' income for just these cases.

Phill

[Noelm]

a lot of people think that owning and/or operating a Charter Boat/Business is a piece of cake and even glamorous, you get paid to do what you like to do anyway! but for those who have worked in the Industry will well know, there is a lot of drama between all the 'glamorous" days, not to mention gear and boat maintenance, then there is sea sick and cranky clients, and esky full of beer at first light usually is not a great start, the ever increasing pressure to get fish, especially if a specific species is asked for, Licence fees and insurance, trust me it is not like a quick day trip on your own to get a few fish, it is hard work, and I mean BLOODY hard work to do it consistently and successfully! sure some days are a dream and a couple of good clients can make it a great day, but it is not always the case!

[OldManRiver]

Me and some mates from work have had a charter out of Noosa cancelled 6 times since last August due to crap weather. The charter people have bent over backwards to get us out there but said they would not take us out in rubbish contitions. They even bought all the food for the last attempt(all day charter ) but cancelled at the last minute when predicted 10-15 knots turned into 25-30. We've taken the hint and asked for a refund. Maybe i should take up a different hobby........maybe cake decorating

[bradhorny28]

My old man owned a couple of charter boats ,i used to go out every weekend and holidays to decky with him and its hard work. clients expect to go out and catch fish every day, but some days the fish just dont want to bite.Most clients have hardly fished at all,so when a client hooks onto a fish they tighten the drag and try to skull drag the fish and end up getting busted off.I would fish for a bit to get some fish in the esky and try to hook up to some bigger fish to let the clients wind them in. He ended up having enough dealing with the clients and sold the boat after a couple of years.

[Blueroo]

Didnt see many charter boats supporting us last sunday.
Stue

[Dan5]

a lot of people think that owning and/or operating a Charter Boat/Business is a piece of cake and even glamorous, you get paid to do what you like to do anyway! but for those who have worked in the Industry will well know, there is a lot of drama between all the 'glamorous" days, not to mention gear and boat maintenance, then there is sea sick and cranky clients, and esky full of beer at first light usually is not a great start, the ever increasing pressure to get fish, especially if a specific species is asked for, Licence fees and insurance, trust me it is not like a quick day trip on your own to get a few fish, it is hard work, and I mean BLOODY hard work to do it consistently and successfully! sure some days are a dream and a couple of good clients can make it a great day, but it is not always the case!
Yes Noel you are pretty much on the money with a lot of your comment's.I'll give you an example of one week's work in extended charter.Okay Sunday arvo leave marina about 3pm travel for 10-12 hrs at 10kt's talk fishing with client's during steaming watch them get more drunk as the night go's on and stay up with them until we reach the destination then be the bad guy when you say hey it's 3am go to bed.(as our duty of care we must know what people are doing at all time' while on charter for their saftey)Get up at 5am to get ready to launch 4 dinghy's by 6am,go fishing all day retuning 1/2 hr before sunset,stay up until 12pm with client's making sure everything is ok and they don't drink themselves stupid and do silly thing's.(not all client's are like this with alcohol of course) Now reapeat 5 time's,come back early saturday morning about 3am get some sleep get up at 5.30 get client's ready for offload then clean down a large boat,re-fuel,re-stock with food do running maintenence replace lost/broken fishing gear and get off boat by about 1pm ish and go home and do laundry pay bill's keep family happy etc then return on the sunday to do it all again.


Now i enjoyed my time as a guide and especially some of the great client's that i shared time with but to do this type of work day in day out it really become's just another job,sure i got to fish some great place's and see some wonderfull sight's which i will allway's remember but try this lifestyle for roughly 30 week's a year for a couple of year's back to back and it become's very stressfull and mundane put simply i was fished out.As with any job it's a lot of hard work and long hour's and lot's of commitment if you want to do it properly.I have a great respect for the guy's that have been in the game for many many year's as the hard work they have put in would be priceless.

I got out before my enthusiasm for the job became to low, i did'nt want to see people spend thousand's of dollar's to do their trip of a lifetime only to be confronted with someone that didn't want to do their best for them.I have had a couple of year's away from the charter industry now but i still feel it will be another couple of years before i get that passion for fishing back.Getting out when i did gave me the option of being welcome back when i decide to do it all again which one day i will.It's a totally different ballgame when fishing with paying customer's than fishing with your mate's there is pressure to perform and produce fish and not the relaxing fun weekend you spend with your buddie's.

Dan................

[samsnap]

Guys- I could not agree more with you - a charter I work for has been out probably 5 times since November - the pickings have been slim due to the weather. It is a very hard life & Noelm & Dan you depicted it to a tee. 4reel - you probably didn't see too many charter boats because of several reason - It would be a bit hard to throw around a 30+ foot charter boat in the Brisbane River in such a crowded space - It would make for a very dangerous situation. Most of the skippers and crew were there but we were on smaller (staff owned) craft - or they were out trying to make a desperate buck elsewhere. Take a look at Keith from Incredible Charters & the weight he has thrown behind our cause, he has been the face and brains behind many protests and there are plenty of other owners/skippers who have put in a hugh amount of time & research preparing a defence against the greens proposed plans as well. Lets just all hope things don't turn out too bad for all involved.

[samson]

Its not just charters all area's in the fish game are hard tackle shops, fish shops not to mention the pro's they struggle even more than charters at least they get paid whether fish are caught or not but the poor old pros lose money if nothing is caught, you have to really enjoy what you do in the seafood industry or its a very tough road.

[Blackened]

G'day

Noel and Dan.... spot on.

I have been deckie on 3 boats for a number of years and you're right.... the owners are stressed and usually have other income streams.

It is bloody hard work and the deckies especially get bugger all pay for what they do, the skipper not much better.

Would I have a charter business?? sure, but only when I would oversee the operation and use it as a hobby, and a good tax move for a bigger boat

Dave

[Herm]

Just my 2 cents worth :)

I went on my first charter in November - in not very nice conditions and even after it having been postponed 4 times before we finally did get out - I wish we had waited (we would probably still be waiting now:-/ )

I do feel very sorry for the professional operators who are unable to get out in this weather, however this did give me the opportunity to hit John Gooding up for a business card when he parked in front of me to pick up the school kids the other day!:)


I hope the weather settles soon - so we can ALL get out for a fish!;D

Cheers
Janine

[Vindicator]

Its not only charter operators who suffer in this weather. Think of us farmers, with all the rain we are receiving our avo trees suffer from root rot, which, can take years to turn around, our custard apples which the fruit is maturing are suceptible to splitting from the excess rain, we are unable to apply sprays which will result in a downgrade in our fruit and less return.

Moving on to the wind side of things, whenever it blows, our fruit gets windrubbed causing a downgrade, or worse gets knocked off the tree losing the fruit completely, trees get blown over so we have to either stake up the trees or lose the tree completely.

Sure I may sound like another whinging farmer, and yeah, I feel sorry for other people who are suffering from the weather, but this weather has long term effects on us not just the direct impacts, just the same as the drought has caused us. Yeah, I know what you're all thinking, I can't be satisfied. But I'm just showing you what its like from my perspective.

Cheers
Kezza

[deadbeatloser]

Its not only charter operators who suffer in this weather. Think of us farmers, with all the rain we are receiving our avo trees suffer from root rot, which, can take years to turn around, our custard apples which the fruit is maturing are suceptible to splitting from the excess rain, we are unable to apply sprays which will result in a downgrade in our fruit and less return.

Moving on to the wind side of things, whenever it blows, our fruit gets windrubbed causing a downgrade, or worse gets knocked off the tree losing the fruit completely, trees get blown over so we have to either stake up the trees or lose the tree completely.

Sure I may sound like another whinging farmer, and yeah, I feel sorry for other people who are suffering from the weather, but this weather has long term effects on us not just the direct impacts, just the same as the drought has caused us. Yeah, I know what you're all thinking, I can't be satisfied. But I'm just showing you what its like from my perspective.

Cheers
Kezza


yes kezza its the old story when it rains it pours, hopefully you will see the end of this crap weather soon as i think most will agree that we hav had enough rain for the time being

dbl:-/

[3rd degree]

Yeh Kezza that root rot is a shocker!

We lost about 95 out of 110 avo trees a few years back, tried everything to save them but nothing worked for us. Hope your having some better luck.

Incidently how are you treating it?


Cheers


Jim

[Vindicator]

Gday Jim,

I have a strict regime for root rot. If you don't keep on top of it you're stuffed. We have always injected twice a year but it does too much damage to the tree. I now apply sprays at certain times of the year and monitor by getting root samples done. Where do you grow them?

Cheers
Kezza

[TheRealAndy]

G'day

Noel and Dan.... spot on.

I have been deckie on 3 boats for a number of years and you're right.... the owners are stressed and usually have other income streams.

It is bloody hard work and the deckies especially get bugger all pay for what they do, the skipper not much better.

Would I have a charter business?? sure, but only when I would oversee the operation and use it as a hobby, and a good tax move for a bigger boat

Dave

Cheers Dave, I have always wanted to find a good tax dodge to get a big boat and you just provided me with one! The best part is that I need to make a loss as well! I will be phoning my accountant first thing monday, but I bet he says no :(

As for charters, a few mates and I have finally had to cancel after another failed attempt this weekend. I was keen for another attempt but a few of the others do shiftwork and couldn't waste another weekend. Shame though, I was looking foward to it.

[JEWIENEWIE]

I to have been feeling the full brunt of the weather. I own and operate a surfschool in byron. Usually we are cranking all through the summer holidays and this usually gets us throught the quite winter months. We have had the worst summer in 10 years of operating due to the constant and dangerous surf conditions.
No other back up plan for income either. I try and stay positive and think that the rain has positives for certain people. The most frustrating thing in having an income that is dependant on the weather, there is jack shit you can do about it when it turns bad. Usually itis a good excuse to put the boat in the richmond for a fish, but alas due to the above mentioned wether, that is out of the question due to fish kill. Cant win lately.
Jewie

[Wahoo]

Its not only charter operators who suffer in this weather. Think of us farmers, with all the rain we are receiving our avo trees suffer from root rot, which, can take years to turn around, our custard apples which the fruit is maturing are suceptible to splitting from the excess rain, we are unable to apply sprays which will result in a downgrade in our fruit and less return.

Moving on to the wind side of things, whenever it blows, our fruit gets windrubbed causing a downgrade, or worse gets knocked off the tree losing the fruit completely, trees get blown over so we have to either stake up the trees or lose the tree completely.

Sure I may sound like another whinging farmer, and yeah, I feel sorry for other people who are suffering from the weather, but this weather has long term effects on us not just the direct impacts, just the same as the drought has caused us. Yeah, I know what you're all thinking, I can't be satisfied. But I'm just showing you what its like from my perspective.

Cheers
Kezza

the thing with this is the goverment gives the farmers a handout, you get a hand out if its to dry, hand out if its to wet, handout if its to cold, how many farms have the Gov offered to buy off them at a good price? and yet most rejected it, better off keeping the farm and keep getting handouts

the building trade, ( blocklayer) sit at home for 4 weeks, wait another 2 weeks for a slab to be poured and set, another week or two for the blocks to turn up, another week and 1/2 to finish the job, then another 3-4 weeks to be paid, any handouts for us????? dont think so, do we get PPL come around and have a chat so see if we are coping ok or stress talks, no we dont, not just the brickies, all the tradies, if only the tax payer knew what goes on behind closed doors about the farmers, they would feel this way too

[Outsider1]

the thing with this is the goverment gives the farmers a handout, you get a hand out if its to dry, hand out if its to wet, handout if its to cold, how many farms have the Gov offered to buy off them at a good price? and yet most rejected it, better off keeping the farm and keep getting handouts

the building trade, ( blocklayer) sit at home for 4 weeks, wait another 2 weeks for a slab to be poured and set, another week or two for the blocks to turn up, another week and 1/2 to finish the job, then another 3-4 weeks to be paid, any handouts for us????? dont think so, do we get PPL come around and have a chat so see if we are coping ok or stress talks, no we dont, not just the brickies, all the tradies, if only the tax payer knew what goes on behind closed doors about the farmers, they would feel this way too

you don't seriously believe that do you Wahoo??!!. It is so far from the truth is ain't funny!

DJ

[Wahoo]

you don't seriously believe that do you Wahoo??!!. It is so far from the truth is ain't funny!

DJ
too right i do, thats the way it is


tell me the truth then, so what do you believe????? i want to hear this

[Outsider1]

too right i do, thats the way it is


tell me the truth then, so what do you believe????? i want to hear this

you are the one that came up with the statement about farmer handouts, how about you back them up. In my experience our farmers get very little in the way of handouts.

Cheers

DJ

[PinHead]

to be honest..with the amount some tradies are making at the moment...if they cannot put some away for a rainy day then perhaps they should look at themselves first. As for the farmers..bit difficult for us to live without food..plus..some of the larger farms have many millions invested in equipment with loans etc to pay for them to be more productive..i have no problem at all in the Govt assisting the farmers..I would not be a farmer for anything.

[Wahoo]

you are the one that came up with the statement about farmer handouts, how about you back them up. In my experience our farmers get very little in the way of handouts.

Cheers

DJ
DJ, here is one figure the gov have to help out the farmers, 14 B

[Wahoo]

to be honest..with the amount some tradies are making at the moment...if they cannot put some away for a rainy day then perhaps they should look at themselves first. As for the farmers..bit difficult for us to live without food..plus..some of the larger farms have many millions invested in equipment with loans etc to pay for them to be more productive..i have no problem at all in the Govt assisting the farmers..I would not be a farmer for anything.


Pinhead, i agree with you 100% saying that traides should have money put aside, there is no reason why any tradie cant, but the farmers must also do the same and really any other business,for any one owing big dollars to be paid back must mean they earn big dollars

Daz

[Vindicator]

the thing with this is the goverment gives the farmers a handout, you get a hand out if its to dry, hand out if its to wet, handout if its to cold, how many farms have the Gov offered to buy off them at a good price? and yet most rejected it, better off keeping the farm and keep getting handouts

the building trade, ( blocklayer) sit at home for 4 weeks, wait another 2 weeks for a slab to be poured and set, another week or two for the blocks to turn up, another week and 1/2 to finish the job, then another 3-4 weeks to be paid, any handouts for us????? dont think so, do we get PPL come around and have a chat so see if we are coping ok or stress talks, no we dont, not just the brickies, all the tradies, if only the tax payer knew what goes on behind closed doors about the farmers, they would feel this way too

Where the hell did you hear get that from. The day I receive a handout from the government I will let you know. The reason that SOME may have got handouts is that we need to keep producing food. Ever wondered where the food comes from if not Australia or the conditions in which they are grown or treatments they are given to grow in. The trouble with some people is that they think because farmers have got land, the machinery to run the place and the whole infrasctructure they are sitting on cloud 9 with this big wad of cash to prop them up. Ever wondered how we got to where we are, the money which is financed to have the equipment and grow the crops. Its not like it was all handed to us on a plate.
Anyone who has worked hard to get where they are whether no matter what industry they are in should be congratulated. Its a hard slog and they'll know what I'm talking about, but don't start this crap about farmers getting all these handouts and everyone else suffering. You tell me what does happen behind closed doors that you seem to know so much about cause its all new to me.

P!ssed off
Kezza

[Wahoo]

Where the hell did you hear get that from. The day I receive a handout from the government I will let you know. The reason that SOME may have got handouts is that we need to keep producing food. Ever wondered where the food comes from if not Australia or the conditions in which they are grown or treatments they are given to grow in. The trouble with some people is that they think because farmers have got land, the machinery to run the place and the whole infrasctructure they are sitting on cloud 9 with this big wad of cash to prop them up. Ever wondered how we got to where we are, the money which is financed to have the equipment and grow the crops. Its not like it was all handed to us on a plate.
Anyone who has worked hard to get where they are whether no matter what industry they are in should be congratulated. Its a hard slog and they'll know what I'm talking about, but don't start this crap about farmers getting all these handouts and everyone else suffering. You tell me what does happen behind closed doors that you seem to know so much about cause its all new to me.

P!ssed off
Kezza

Kezza
i hear what your saying, we also are getting alot of Gov adds on telly saying how much the farmers need

but this goes with the farmers up here on how they abuse the system, and getting handouts
one farmer ( banana farmer) that i know very well got a handout after the cyclone, now this guy was on telly crying "my life is ruined" 4 month latter new cruiser wagon new cruiser ute and to top it off two new diesels for his boat, now that alone just made me sick and lost all respect, i should of stated these facts first

Daz

[Outsider1]

Hi Wahoo,

quoting a figure like 14B without any source or explanation means nothing. It all needs to be in context, it probably includes fuel rebates (actually giving farmers back some of their own money in taxes they have paid).

Here is a link to some facts about Farmers;

http://www.nff.org.au/farm-facts.html

I think these quotes are particularly relevant;

Australian farmers - self-reliant...

Despite common misconceptions, Government support for Australian farms represents just 4% of farming income. By comparison, according to the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), in the United States it's 17%, in the European Union it's 31%, and in Japan it's 56%.

In fact, Australian farmers are among the most self-sufficient in the world.- OCED, Agricultural Policies in OECD Countries: At a Glance 2006.
Further, support to farmers across all OECD countries accounts for 29% of farm receipts. Remarkably, this level of support is almost the same as 1995 levels. While international governments are gradually moving away from providing support and trade barriers are falling, largely lead by Australian farmers, these distorting measures remain dominant.- OCED, Agricultural Policies in OECD Countries: At a Glance 2006.My 30+ years experience in working with farmers around Oz is they don't get much in the way of true 'handouts', and when they do it is genuinely needed and much appreciated. I am sure it is no more than the people of Mackay are getting or in line for at the moment. And you have to remember that there is a lot more than the Farmers included under the Rural Category viz;

There are 129,934 individual farming businesses in Australia - remarkably 99% of them are family owned and operated.

In 2005, 336,700 people were directly employed in the Australian agricultural sector - accounting for around 4% of the national workforce - 67% of these people were male, and 44% were engaged in grains, sheep and beef cattle.

Australian agriculture has important linkages with other sectors of the economy and, therefore, contributes to these flow-on industries. Agriculture supports the jobs of 1.6 million Australians, in farming and related industries, across our cities and regions - accounting for 17.2% of the national workforce.

By the way, I don't disagree with your statement about blockies and the building industry. The building industry is notoriously boom or bust and also seasonal. Tradies tend to be at the bottom of the pile unfortunately, so I do have sympathy for them. But that is no reason to dump unfairly on another industry.

Cheers

DJ

[Xahn1960]

Bit of a jump from Charter Operators to Farms ??? But I'll add my Two cents worth..... I've known a lot of farmers and not one ever got a cent they didn't work damn hard for, a few probably do rort the system but those I know put in more hours for less return than I ever would or could..
Support our Aussie businesses and they will support us, rather see my tax dollars going to help out our farmers than wasted elswhere...
Bill.

[samsnap]

If it came to choose between charter boat operators & farmers for a grant - I would back the poor old farmer all the way (sorry Boss!) Grew up on a farm & dekkie for a charter - I'v tasted both worlds & I can tell you - the farmer & his family do it harder by far. But every trade & job has its highs & lows - we just have to be smart & ride them out & as my old mum would say "save for a rainy day". I think this thread has run its course - its a bit nasty now - but we are all welcome to our own opinion. Hope this dosen't offend anyone & good luck vindicator, I'll thank you tomorrow for my avo on toast for breakky & hope you got the .003 cents from it xx Sammy

[reelemin1974]

Yeh Kezza that root rot is a shocker!

We lost about 95 out of 110 avo trees a few years back, tried everything to save them but nothing worked for us. Hope your having some better luck.

Incidently how are you treating it?


Cheers


Jim

Yes, tell me about it, I had a rotten root once too!! Really is a bumber!!