I-command dramas

[LINZ_74]

Hey guys
When i purchased the new tinnie it came with the I-command gauges and it is the fuel level gauge that is causing me grief. When i fill the tank it comes up as 100% but after a few hours of running around the fuel level doesn't drop down on the display but then occassionally it will show a percentage of fuel in the tank but don't know if it is correct reading or not.
When i start the engine again to move positions it will show 100% for a while. I am doing everything the manual says to do but still don't seem to get a true reading.
When i got home from the trip i lifted the floor to see the tank had just under half level in it but the gauge said there was 87% remaining.
I have since talked to the guys i bought the boat from but couldn't tell me anymore than what the manual says.
Just wondering if anyone has had the same dilemma and could point me in the right direction as to whether there is a fault somewhere or it is my own doing somewhere. Your knowledge in these I-command systems would be greatly appreciated.:-/

Cheers
Lindsay

[Taroona]

Hi Lindsay,

I ahve the same problem with my gauges, mine are the I-Command Digital ones, but then again the old analouge gauge showed fuel in exactly the same way so I never really knew how much fuel I had left.

On saturday I filled my tank and had the fuel remaining setting displayed and the fuel tank level. On the way to the pin from redland bay I noticed that the fuel used display was blank. So my assumption was the BRP stuff. Anyway reading the manual it appears that you can one or the other i.e. tank level or "fuel remaining"

So at the next opportunity I am going to chnge the settings as per page 25 in the manual and see what happens.

I shall also be emailing BRP and asking their tech rep in Sydney.

Les

[Getout]

I don't think that any fuel level guage in a boat is much use. The reading will vary depending on hull attitude. If the sender is at the rear of the tank, the reading wil rise as you accelerate, because of surge.
You can really only use them as a resting comparison.
Use the "fuel used" and "fuel remaining" functions. They are accurate on my I-Command system

[Outsider1]

Sound like the fuel sender is the issue.

Like Taroona I have just got the I-Command (digital) gauges with my new E-Tec, however as far as I am aware the (tank) fuel sender is the same as before.

I filled my tank (it blew back through the overflow) but it was only showing 90% full on the gauges. There is a calibration function on the gauges that I need to read up on, it might help resolve!?, not sure?.

I don't think it is an issue with the gauges, more likely it is the accuracy of the fuel sender that is the problem. As Taroona mentions the issue was there before for me with the old analogue gauges, never showed quite full and move around a fair bit when you were underway. Not surprising really, just imagine how much the fuel in the tank sloshes around when you are underway and running at various angles depending on the prevailing conditions, speed etc. I assume the amount of baffling in the tank also comes into it. I found mine pretty reliable when the boat was stationary and just manage it accordingly.

The other thought is that the I-Command gauges should be telling you the amount of fuel used (through the fuel flow metering in the motor). If you know you tank capacity is X, then a simple deduction should be able to tell you what you have left. Obviously you have to fill it at the start for this to work.

I have yet to play around with my gauges, so will let you know if I find out anything more.

Cheers

DJ

[LINZ_74]

Thanks guys for the replies, my gauges are the digital ones, i think i need to play around with it a bit more probably just to become more familiar with it.
Even sitting on the boat trailer it will read full then it will read another amount. It has got me tearing my hair out .

Cheers Lindsay

[Taroona]

here's a reply from BRP, don't know if it will help you, but it helps me. so gotta go and play with instruments now

"Gday Les

For seasonal fuel and trip fuel function on the i-command network, you need to purchase and fit an EP-50.

An EP-50 is a memory module which remembers how much fuel is left in the fuel tank.

I am not sure if you would have one of those fitted.

The reason for the fuel used not working, possibly could be because you have changed a setting on the seasonal fuel etc.

Let me know what is fitted to your boat. "

[Taroona]

After playing around a bit and talking to BRP, who have been very helpfull, I have to order an EP-50 Memory module. This device will allow the display of fuel in the format of fuel remaing based upon calculations done by the processor so I am led to believe by BRP.

Without the memory module and only the GPS antenna the only information you can get is Nm per Litre, and fuel used which means that you would need to keep a mental reminder of fuel used. For example we went to Dux and back to redland Bay on Saturday . The round trip was 38.6Nm and the fuel consumption was around the 1.16Nm per Litre, so if I put in 100L before I should have 66L left at the finish!!!!! (The motor has only done 7Hrs)

The problem is the fuel gauge still shows full!!!!!

And I am guessing that the days usage was at the rate of 1.16Nm/L

So to get an accurate measurement I will need the EP-50, it's about the $110.00 mark BRP said.

Will let you know

Les

[LINZ_74]

Good on ya, thanks Les it looks like i need to do the same thing. The EP-50 is that something that is easily installed yourself or by a tech.

Lindsay

[Taroona]

The unit should come with T joiner which screws onto the CANBuss. You then enter the setup mode and and tell the system to look for new devices, it will then enrol the memory module.

You would need to read the manual after this


Les

[Outsider1]

After playing around a bit and talking to BRP, who have been very helpfull, I have to order an EP-50 Memory module. This device will allow the display of fuel in the format of fuel remaing based upon calculations done by the processor so I am led to believe by BRP.

Without the memory module and only the GPS antenna the only information you can get is Nm per Litre, and fuel used which means that you would need to keep a mental reminder of fuel used. For example we went to Dux and back to redland Bay on Saturday . The round trip was 38.6Nm and the fuel consumption was around the 1.16Nm per Litre, so if I put in 100L before I should have 66L left at the finish!!!!! (The motor has only done 7Hrs)

The problem is the fuel gauge still shows full!!!!!

And I am guessing that the days usage was at the rate of 1.16Nm/L

So to get an accurate measurement I will need the EP-50, it's about the $110.00 mark BRP said.

Will let you know

Les

Thanks Les,

I don't seem to have the memory module either. Have e-mailed my dealer to find out more.

Definitely sounds a worthwhile option, just don't understand why the dealer(s) aren't on the ball about it??

Cheers

Dave

[Taroona]

Hey Dave,

the guy at my dealer didn't even know what it was!!!!!!

[sid_fishes]

what ever happened to the dipstick, or maybe he works for them, just a thought , another thought BRP are they who supply etecs. heres another debate

[LINZ_74]

Hey Les, looking under the console there is a spare lead hanging out, might be what this piece plugs into. I will get it checked by someone who knows what they are doing, not really confident in the electronics field of things.
When i bought the boat the salesman said that there was a option i could get which gave me all the fuel stats but failed to mention it also controlled the fuel level.

Lindsay

[Taroona]

what ever happened to the dipstick, or maybe he works for them, just a thought , another thought BRP are they who supply etecs. heres another debate

Have you read page 41 of todays (friday) Courier mail? A Mzzz(must be) Daphne Haneman describes modern day fisherman as "Knuckle-dragging, bottom dwelling predator that is primed to stalk the oceans until they're empty of life, after finding the evolutionary process (upward)




Maybe it's only the bottom dwellers that can't contribute to a forum with intelligence


.

[Taroona]

Hey Les, looking under the console there is a spare lead hanging out, might be what this piece plugs into. I will get it checked by someone who knows what they are doing, not really confident in the electronics field of things.
When i bought the boat the salesman said that there was a option i could get which gave me all the fuel stats but failed to mention it also controlled the fuel level.

Lindsay

The memory module has a lead coming out of it with a red connector the same as the ones you already have and the kit would come a "T" connector with same red fittings. All you do is unscrew one of the connectors at one of the existing "T's" and insert the new one so long as it's not at the end. The end device needs to have a balancing resistor.

After the new "T" is inserted you connect the memory module to the unterminated connector on the new "T".

Then go into the sysem via the menu button on the dispaly and enroll the new device.

Les

[LINZ_74]

yeah i am following you, i will make some calls today to purchase the unit and see what i come up with.
Thanks for all the info Taroona its been a great help.

Lindsay

[Outsider1]

Heard back from the dealer today. Seems everyone is waking up to the benefits of the memory module. He is ordering me one, but BRP have a fair few orders now and they need to bring more into the country. Quoting end of March delivery!

Cheers

DJ

[Taroona]

Yeah Dave.

Thats what I was told. One would have thought that having the ability to provide the additional information about fuel would have been a great marketing tool.


Les

[littlejim]

Of no help at all I know. But I used to love the way, each time this topic came up, that Kerry used to plug the use of the dip stick. for the non-technically minded, this is a bit of wood with markings on it, that you stick into the tank after taking the lid off. After touching the stick on the bottom of the tank the height of the wet portion indicates fuel level. Kerry even invented a double ended one, where if one end was wet you could turn it over and use the other end the same way.

If you start with an empty tank you can add known amounts and mark the stick accordingly, then use it to compare to your fuel gauge readings. This way you get a feel for how your gauge behaves. After that the dipstick is optional. The shape of the tank affects the level versus consumption readings. The gauge can only tell how high the float on the sender is.
I believe my analogue gauge when it says full or empty, in between it is a reasonable guide.

[Outsider1]

Yes using a dip stick is always an option LJ, but a pain in the neck when you have a under floor tank that requires floor plates to be unscrewed to access.

The Engine Management Modules (EMMs) on new outboards today measure fuel flow with very high accuracy. Seems silly not to be using that information and the resultant calculations that digital instruments can process.

My fuel sender is unchanged and shows 90% when the tank is actually full, so it has at least a 10% error level before the variability of travel induced errors comes into it.

The problem is that BRP does not seem to have briefed or prepped their dealers on the benefits of the digital gauges they have now made standard on their 2008 models.

Cheers

Dave

[Taroona]

OK here's the good oil!!!!!

I have been doing some research and found some interesting information on two sites in the US namely Hulltruth and continuouswave

I have been planning to fit a third gauge and checked with BRP and then a Lowrance dealer here and the prices are sort of bank robber stuff!!!!

The LMF-400 by Lowrance is N2K complient and as such will work on the Can BUSS that you have with 2008 E-TEC's.

So I have priced an LMF-400 and "T" to add to the BUSS. I had already checked a few sites in the US to gauge;D the price of the units and to my surprise a quote came back to me including a memory module which was 65% of the Aussie price but wait. Add the memory module to the aussie price which is another AUD130.00 and the difference is now roughly 50%. So for an extra $100.00 on top what I was to pay for just the memory module I will now have an extra gauge.


How about that!!!!!!!!!!!

The LMF-400 won't display all of the BRP alarms and faults but I already have that on the Gauges that came with the motor.

In one of the threads on the Hulltruth an reference is made to a Lowrance part being the EP-50 which I think has now become a BRP part number and Lowrance now has a EP60 memeory module.
At this point in time I am still awaiting advice from the US whether or not the memory module that comes with the LMF-400 is the same as the BRP one.

Les

[Outsider1]

Interesting Les.

I must admit I did contemplate doing some similar searching when I ordered the memory module and was told delivery was likely to be end of March.

I had 2 extra smaller gauges plus the NMEA cabling for my Lowrance GPS/Sounder installed with the motor. I also kept my old analogue temperature gauge. Once I get the memory module I will start playing around with different setups to maximise information at a glance and data overall.

Let us know how you go. That LMF-400 looks pretty much identical physically to the BRP gauges.

Cheers

Dave

[Taroona]

Hey Dave,
It turns out the EP-R is a device similar to the Navona fuel paddle wheel that I already had on my boat.

It's also looking like the EP-50 module has disappeared from the Lowrance web site and reappeared as a BRP part cause even a google search won't find it.

So looks like I'll just get a LMF-400 gauge which is somewhere around the AUD200 delivered to Bris compared to the local price of $325.00.

The LMF-400 is the same except for the labelling and as I said,no BRP propriety

How useful do you find the smaller gauges...

[Outsider1]

Hey Dave,
..............How useful do you find the smaller gauges.......

Too early to say, to be honest Les.

Aesthetically the dash layout looks great with the two larger gauges flanking the two smaller ones. I have the 2 large set up as Tacho and Speedo (GNS), and the smaller as a Tilt gauge and a fuel gauge. The Fuel gauge also cycles through all the other data. I have also set up some rudimentary data screens and gauges on the sounder, but more work to do there yet.

However, I have only had one run in the boat so far and have not really played around with the setups too much yet. Was going to wait until the memory module was installed, but probably won't be able resist the urge to play around with the set up before that!;D

The boat has been out of action for a few months whilst the motor upgrade was being organised and installed etc. The usual array of little maintenance items that tend to crop up when a boat has been out of action for a while have also been keeping me busy.

Cheers

Dave

[Taroona]

Well theaddititon to my I-Command gauges arrived today in the form of an LMF-400.

I plugged it into the BUSS supplied with the E-TEC, turned on the ignition and it logged it self straight in.

No setting up required except for metric units and nautical measurements. After two or three minutes I had it displaying all the additional details (4 items) that I wanted on a single gauge.

Digital stuff is so simple to use and set up. All I gotta do now is cut a hole in the dash.

[LINZ_74]

Hey Les, well i sorted out what was going on with the fuel gauge. It turned out that the fuel sender is positioned in an area that is about 2" lower than the top of the fuel tank, so i have to use up the first 2" of fuel before the gauge will start reading a level. My next step now is to use all the fuel in the tank and take note on how many litres it takes to get to the top of the sender from being empty.
It is suppose to be a 115 litre tank so i will have to see if it is this amount of fuel to the top of the sender or to completely fill the tank.

Where the sender is positioned i hope it is not actually reading from a level something like 90 litres or there abouts by the time you take away the extra 2" above the sender.

Hopefully it is a bigger tank and the extra is allowed for expansion when you put fuel in it, it is one of those plastic tanks.

[Spaniard_King]

Guys,

Had a chat to a mate who is a BRP tech and he tells me they have changed a few of the Icomand gauges under warranty. he thinks they have a problem with the early batch.. but I will tell him about this memory module.. Thanks

[Taroona]

I was reading the LMF-400 manual and found a way of calibrating the tank sender. So I thought I would have another read of the e-tec manual and if you look at page 21 it tells you how to calibrate the tank. So I'm going to run my tank down and try this to see if it works.

[Taroona]

Guys,

Had a chat to a mate who is a BRP tech and he tells me they have changed a few of the Icomand gauges under warranty. he thinks they have a problem with the early batch.. but I will tell him about this memory module.. Thanks


I had occasion to go the dealer from whom I bought my E-tec and had a chat about the above subject. He informs me that it's not so much a change/replace but more a reset of the gauges because people are trying to display to many pages on the gauge. This in turn is affecting the memory of the device.

[Taroona]

well my memory module device arrived today from the E-TEC dealer and I connected it to the CanBus. When the gauges are powered up teh baot setup menu appears.

As I have three gauges i.e. two I-Command and one LMF-400 I needed to do the setup with all three gauges. tell it that there is one engine and one tank and then how many litres etc.

Now all I have to do is take it for a run

So simple to set up.........

I had alook at the back lighting as it was almost dark and have decided that as I have all the information displayed on the three gauges that I want and I know which buttons to press I'm not going to bother with the connecting of the lighting controls until this weekend

Les

[ozbee]

on the left side of my chart ploter/sounder i display fuel remaining, fuel consumption and engine temperature as well as depth in case i go map only. is there anything else i should display from engine management.

[Taroona]

Today was the first opportunity i have had to take my boat out to try the memory module.

I filled a portable tank with 20 litres and went from Colmslie to yeronga and back at varying speeds and also WOT and the memory module stored the usage as exactly 20 litres....How about that.......No more guessing

Les

[Outsider1]

I now have my memory module installed as well. I have done the initial set up and just have to work out now the best options to display the data. The benefit of multiple digital gauges is you can set each one up differently.

ozbee, still learning the options myself, so can't help or suggest on any better options yet . You have almost infinite options with the gauge builder functionality of the NMEA Lowrance sounders/GPS. I have been waiting for the memory module so I have accurate fuel use data before I see up too many screens.

I have 4 digital and 1 analogue gauges set to show me Tacho, Speedo, Trim, Fuel Tank levels and Engine Temp. The fuel gauge is also set to scroll through various other measures eg battery voltage, fuel used, fuel remaining etc every few seconds. I have found this set up gives me the info I need at a quick glance whilst I am under way. I am thinking of using the Lowrance screen to show more long term data analysis like fuel usage logging trends etc. But open to ideas on that. I have 2 sounders and 2 GPS (including the Lowrance sounder/GPS combo), so do have some flexibility with what I display at any time.

Cheers

Dave

[Taroona]

Hi Dave,

I missed the scrolling feature in the manual, what a great feature that is.

I have also ordered a water pressure device (BRP #764195). As I picked up a plastic bag a few weeks back and didn't realise till the engine temp started to rise.

So the first has two analouge gauges with water temp on one and engine temp on the other, this in turn scrolls and displays battery voltage, fuel used, and fuel flow (l/Hr) and engine load.

The second is split between SOG and tacho and the 3rd has fuel management displayed (fuel remaining in digital display and graphically in a vertical bar, economy Nm/l and fuel range) and engine trim pop up

The scrolling is set for 4 seconds which is enough time to read the information and the pop up engine trim appears if the trim changes by more tha 3% and remains there for 4 seconds.

Les