tilt and trim losing pressure, need to add oil?

[fender22]

Hi guys, I've noticed of late when I tilt my 135 Mariner up, it will over an hour or so slowly fall back down. I remember a few months ago I found a small quantity of oil underneath the donk and couldn't really ascertain where it was from. Now I know! Would it be anything more serious than the seals or should I try adding some more fluid first ? It hasn't leaked since those few months ago. My mechanic said sometimes they can get a grain of sand under the seal and often fix themselves. Might try adding oil first. How would I do it?

1987 Mariner 135 (Merc)

[John L]

I have an older [1980] 115 hp Mercury. It has a separate oil reservior and pump away from the outboard motor. It is set up inside the boat in the transom and has a small hole on top of the reservior [with removable screw] to top up the oil.

I actually refilled mine when I bought the boat about 12 years ago with Shell 'Rimula x' a tractor oil which can be used for hydraulics. Has worked well all that time.

Yours is probably different being a later model.

[Blackened]

G'day

If it's got a remote pump (inside boat) there will be a small screw you undo, and fill up until that level is reached.

Use auto transmission fluid to fill up.

If it's all mounted on the outboard, same process, just find the fill screw.

Make sure you fill it when the rams are extended

Dave

[fender22]

Rams extended? does that mean tilted up?

[black runner]

You betcha

[Spaniard_King]

Fender,

seals only leak for one reason:P.. the rods are normally scored which chews out the seal. Some times its a toss up to keep refilling or have it fixed.. wont be cheap to repair either.. but what is on a boat eh!

[trueblue]

seals on my yammy cost $300 to get repaired...

expensive spare parts and a mechanic who is a little too proud of his work

[Spaniard_King]

seals on my yammy cost $300 to get repaired...

expensive spare parts and a mechanic who is a little too proud of his work


Was it only the seals for $300... seems a lot for just seals

[trueblue]

Was it only the seals for $300... seems a lot for just seals

No, it included labour. I just think this particular mechanic is charging too much for his work. I think it was about $100 for the seals and wipers and the rest for labour.

I might be wrong, but I am going to get some work done on my boat elsewhere next service or repairs just to see how much other mechanics charge.

I was a tradesman myself, and I'm happy to pay good money for good work, but it starts to get irritating when the bills just seem to get bigger and bigger without anything obvious as to why...

Cheers

Mick

[BM]

No, thats not too dear to do the job.

The seal kit for a Merc trim system such as Fender has is about $200 just for the seals for the tilt ram (the large ram in the centre which is the most common to leak).

Getting it apart is the problem. First the roll pin has to be punched out of the cross pin. Then the cross pin has to come out of the swivel bracket and this is often where heat and hititng is required and can be a real problem. Then you have to get the top cap off the ram cylinder. This too can require careful heat and be quite difficult.

A trim system repair will usually be a lot more labour charge than parts because they are a right pain in the arse to pull apart.

Fender, your system is "integral" meaning all contained within the mount bracket. The aforementioned separate pump trim system stopped production in 1983. To fill your trim fluid, trim the engine right up and then open the filler cap (black or yellow) on the port side of the engine and poking through the mount bracket. Has abig flat bade slot in the head of it and from memory a 5/8 socket will fit it too.

Fill up with an auto trans fluid. and replace cap. NOW, these caps have an o-ring so don't do what most morons do and screw the thing down so tight that its ridiculous. Just down till you have a bit of pressure on the o-ring and alls good.

To find the source of your leak check the seals on all 3 rams. If there is no external leak and the rams are leaking down then you have an internal leak and that is going to cost you......

A complete assembly is about $1700. Depending on the model, sometimes parts are available and other times its new unit only.

Cheers

[Spaniard_King]

Trueblue has yammy unit which has easily changeable seals and wipers...on the trim rods tilt rams are a different story tho..

geez bm 1700 for a complete unit.. lucky it wasnt a honda.. they go for $3400 on a 135 :(

[BM]

Yep and a complete Yammy unit is $4500.....

I don't think Yam do a seal kit for the tilt ram (depending on the model) I believe you have to buy the "spear" kit which is the ram shaft and the top cap. This is about $1000.

CHeers

[Spaniard_King]

Yeh Honda dont do seals for the tilt ram either.. but only $500 for a new tilt ram.. catch is ya cant change the tilt ram on a honda without removing the engine and side mount bracket to remove the tilt unit and do the rest on the bench :(.. labor intensive

[trueblue]

Trueblue has yammy unit which has easily changeable seals and wipers...on the trim rods tilt rams are a different story tho..



Correct Garry. It was just the 2 side rams that provide the back pressure against the tilt ram (don't know the correct name) not the actual tilt up / down cylinder. There was no damage to the hard chrome on the rods.

Job would as best as I can tell from having previous hydraulics experience and looking at the outside of the unit, would have simply entailed:

tilting the motor up and locking it up.
Wipe down the rods
C spanner to loosen the gland nuts
Remove gland nuts
use hook (scriber etc) to pull the wiper and the 2 inner and outer gland nut seals (o-rings as I was told by the Mechanic)
Fit new o-rings and wipers
lube up rods
fit gland nut
C spanner to tighten
top up oil
bleed out air from the system by lifting motor up and down by hand and cracking bleed screw on descent of motor.

Can't see 4 O rings and 2 wipers costing $100.

And I just don't see more than $200 of labour in doing this, especially seeing as this job was tacked into a service that all up cost me more than $800. (Whole job was Water pump impellor - housing not changed, change gearbox oil, new fuel filter that I asked not be changed because brand new, 2 new thermostats, 4 new spark plugs that I asked not be changed because brand new, tune, general service etc).

I'm definitely going to check out a new mechanic because with this guys prices and the fact that I had to wait 4 days to get the boat back during good weather it just isn't worth the one convenience factor of him being 5 minutes drive from home.

Cheers

Mick

[BM]

In that case perhaps the work should have been cheaper.

The 2 smaller rams by the way are your trim rams. The long one in the centre is the tilt ram.

The seals for power trim systems are expensive. In fact many outboard parts are hideously overpriced but thats not our fault as repairers. We don't set the parts prices.

For example a set of pistons for a Mercruiser V8 - $2400!!! WTF????? When a set of hyper eutectics to suit will cost you say $300......

Yes you can track down some parts a lot cheaper in terms of seals and o-rings etc etc but as repairers, who has the time to go looking for the right replacement part when it is far simpler to order from the manufacturer and know that you have the exact right part.

I have chased down replacement parts over the years many times and it is a real pain that takes a lot of time to achieve. I prefer to call the manufacturer these days and simply order the right part...

cheers