Suzi 140 07 owners

[honda900]

To all,

I recently decided to make the change from a 06 2- 130 Yam to a 07 4- suzi 140. The Yam was 15 months old and in great condition (93Hrs). I decided to make the change to increase the range of my boat which has a 150 ltr tank, as some of the offshore trips were leaving me no margin for error on the way home.

So after a lot of research / pricing / economy, came down to 2 choices, the suzi or the honda, as everything else didnt have the same horse power or fuel consumption put the required range out of reach. In the end the suzi one on weight over honda.

Since the change I have had performance issues around the speed the boat is able to get throughtout the rev range. Some of this was expected, however my expectation was more around the hole shot of the engine,

Instead I have discovered after several prop changes that hole shot is not so bad, however speed is down throughout the entire rev range. So I currently have a 14*19 alloy inch prop on the boat which so far has achieved the best performance of all.

The other props I have tried and performance data I gathered are listed below;
The following info is in GPS measured Km/ph so I have accurate figures across the testing and all tests were completed with a full tank of fuel.

Yam 130 1730cc

06 Yam 130 2- Holeshot - 2.4 seconds to plane (standard yam stainless 17" prop)
4000 rpm = 41.6 k
WOT 5800 rpm = 69.9 k

Suzi 140 2044cc

14*21 Alloy - Hole shot > 5 seconds to plane
4000 rpm = 35 K
5600 rpm max speed 56 K

Solas 4 blade 13*19 Holeshot not measured as could not obtain plane speed.
4000 rpm = 21kms
Max Not checked, as boat was in run in.

14*19 Alloy - Hole shot -2.4 seconds to plane
4000 rpm =21.0
WOT - 56 k @6000-6100 (was not a great day but looked being close to the limiter)

So boat stats,

Yalta craft 06 555hc Hull weight 720kg, Fuel 150Kg. + other crap @ 200kg

Yam weight 168kg + 10kg for Oil tank.
Suz Weight 191 KG

So I am looking for anyone who has a similar size boat / Weight with an 07 engine to get some comparitive speed info and to find out what prop you run to see if it is a setup / prop issue or a gear ration issue.

Although at the moment I have achieved what I needed with regards to distance but at a substantial cost to speed, Any help greatly appreciated.

Regards
Honda.

Entire boat shot;
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l269/honda900_uw/PHOT0013.jpg

Change Picture;

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l269/honda900_uw/PHOT0014.jpg

[deadbeatloser]

have you spoken to solas ? if not ring up and speak to naritta she will be able to
help you or lead you in the right direction..
or one of those ex-spirt 4stroke suzi owners(50%of them)

beers dbl

[honda900]

dbl,

Yeah mate spoke to solas,

"perhaps my expectations were to high, due to the suzi's gearing" Also they have suggested that I should change the recommended 4 blade to a 3 blade.

There was also another comment about the engine revs being different and that I need to rev the engine harder.

The Yam redline is 6k, the suzi redlines at 6.2k so nothing in it as far as I am concerned.

the problem is not horsepower, the engine seems to have enough grunt to run all the props, although the 21 seems to struggle at the top end.

Regards
Honda.
Yet to get there with that..

[Hamish73]

I am not expert, but what about the leg? Do they both have the same gear ratio?
As comparing RPM's with different gear ratios doesnt proove much.
If so you would have to assume that a copy of your yammy prop would work well, weight difference isnt that great.

[honda900]

Hamish,

Gear ratio inside the box is different, one of the big claims is that the suzi can run a large prop, doesnt seem to be much good if you cant get any forward motion out of it though.


Regards
Honda.

[Spaniard_King]

Honda,

IS the engine height at the best setting for that engine.. no good changing props un till you have that set right.

the 4 stroke needs to be able to all but reach the recommended max WOT to acheive best performance and longevity. so you need to be at 6000.

I have doen some significant testing with Solas 4 blade and 3 blade props, I find that the 4 blade requires a LOT more HP to drive the additional blade above 5000 rpm. you could say it was over efficient.

IMO if you need to run at rpm's over 5000 stick to a 3 blade.

That 14 x 19 is probably going to be the best you will get if your engine height is right. Don't be worried about running around at higher rpm it'l handle it.

What rpm would you need to sit on for your normal cruise speed in the suzi?

[SgBFish]

Honda
I have a 555 with a 115 Yamaha 4S. How much does your 140 Zuke weigh remembering the max transom weight for that boat is 200Kg.
Roughly my 115 gets 20mph at 4000 rpm, 25mph at 4500 and 30mph at 5000 rpm. That’s usually in a bit of slop.
Scott

[Spaniard_King]

Yam weight 168kg + 10kg for Oil tank.
Suz Weight 191 KG

Regards
Honda.



I recon if you read the first post entirely you would find the answer::)

[disorderly]

I think the suzi 140 hp is a bit of a marketing gimmick.
No comparison in cubes to a suzi 150 hp,yet far cheaper for only 10hp less..the spec's compare more favourably to that of the suzi 115 and the performance seems to mirror that.
Scott

[honda900]

Scott,

Mate not sure about the 200kg, Marine tune offered me a 150 yam 4- at a good price, problem was that the fuel economy was about the same as the 2- and the the F150 weighs somewhere around the 220 mark.

I was conscious of the weight and went for the lowest weight highest output I could get that had additional CC's. The suzi only only added an extra 10kg's over the yam with the oil tank (long shaft).

Basically I am now getting a little better than your figures but have an xtra 25 horses and expect the figures to be round about the same as the 130 yam.
Graham seems to be getting around the same figures as you and has the 115 4-.

So the suzi 140 on the same hull really is about the same as the 115, pretty disappointing, particularly having to go backwards with more horse power. I am just not 100% convinced yet that I have the right combination of prop and setup to get the best from the hull.

Regards
Honda

[Spaniard_King]

Scott,

why didn't you just tell him he shoulda bought an Etec::)

The guy is asking for assistance, not an uneducated opinion:furious2:

[Grunter71]

Hamish,

Gear ratio inside the box is different, one of the big claims is that the suzi can run a large prop, doesnt seem to be much good if you cant get any forward motion out of it though.


Regards
Honda.

There was a thread on here some time ago(I think, or it may have been Fishnet). Bloke and his mate were running similar hulls, his mate was running the 140 Zuke. He liked the performance his mate was getting and upgraded to the same motor. Zuke had changed the gearing ratios between the 06 and 07 models and he got the new model. Bottom line was, despite lots of prop trials, he could get nowhere near the top end speed his mate was getting.

[honda900]

Forgot to add for etec owners,

They dont make one in the horse power range I wanted, 115 too small and the 150 is too thirsty to make the change worth while and an extra 6-7K + fitting on what I paid for the change over.

I considered them all, did quite a bit of research around weight, horsepower, economy, reliability and price.

By the way dont want to get into an etec v suzi war, more interested it getting some figures from other guys with similar setups.

so far not looking good.

Regards
Honda

[honda900]

Thanks grunter will do a bit of a search on it..

Regards
Honda.

[SgBFish]

Honda
I think Gary may be onto it with the motor height. I think these boats are very sensitive to it.
I notice on a calm day when I trim up to the point where the boat is out nicely the motor is on the verge of cavitation.
I have thought of dropping it a hole but I’m certain my performance at the rest of time would suffer. Have you tried raising it a hole?
On another note that large extra outlet on the side of your boat did you plump one of the stern lockers as live tank? I was going to but I thought they are a bit small.
Scott

[honda900]

Scott,

Motor height is almost identical to the yam, I have checked in some old photos, I asked the dealer to check the height and even when I looked at it while running cav plate is just about on the surface so I think its ok.

changing the props has made a huge difference in hole shot but doesnt really seem to have sorted speed, not sure why though.

Yep had one of the tanks plumbed as a live well when I ordered it. the other one I have had plumbed to empty into the bilge, instead of dropping onto the second battery.

usually have 20 or so livies in the tank, Yakkas seem to be the most hardiest and can last a 6-8 hour session in the tank, mind you I run the pump most of the time to keep water flowing. Have found that around the top of the tank is not sealed and dumps a bit of water in the bilge, but I know that now and ensure I keep the an eye on it.

Regards
Honda.

[honda900]

Garry,

to get around the 40 mark I need to sit on about 4500 rpm, At WOT I am able to get it up and over the 6k rev mark, had not such a easy test day on the weekend was just a bit to sloppy for that kind of speed. Hoping for a better test this weekend.

13kg is not much weight difference, I would have taken that out of the boat over christmas by removing my cast net, spare sinkers and other associated non essentials so I have probably lightened the load at the back of the boat if anything.

I spent at least an hour or so playing with the trim while doing ovals off the front of manly harbour the over the last couple of weeks with the different props and have found that trimming has allowed me to get to the figures that I have.

I am starting to think that the change in gear ratios seems to be where I am losing it, the four blade seemed to just not perform at all, when I say that, while testing the engine revved just as easily and as it does now, but the boat just didnt move in the water, didnt sound like it was cavetating and did rev quite freely, but mate I am no expert but the engine has never seemed to struggle on the horsepower side of things.


Regards
Honda

[black runner]

This is on the Solas site:

Engine height rules
The only consistant rule is that the engine should be positioned on the transom so that at full revs the "anticavitation plate" (main plate just above the propeller) is just skimming the water at speed so you can see the plate.

(1) every inch the motor is deeper in the water a loss of 250 propeller revs and approx 1.5 mph is lost thus affecting boat speed.

It might be that if your motor is a tad low then the 21p might be the goods when it is lifted. Certainly Solas recommend the 21p (Stainless).

140hp suzuki 4 stroke 2.39 ratio Sep 06 modelchooseH/R Titan only 19p
140hp suzuki 4 stroke 2.59 ratio Sep onwardchooseH/R Titan only 21p

Cheers - Fred

[honda900]

thanks fred,

Spoke to solas yesterday and the info I got was the 4 blade they supplied to the deal is the right one. But your right on the ratios, the change has been in the 07 models.

I need to change my 4 blade as it is basically useless so I will query again to make sure I get the right prop.


regards
Honda

[mirage]

Hi Honda,
This may not help but I have a KC2400 wich I just re-engined with DF140's (08 models). Almost every new one out of the factory has em and after a lot of talking it seems everyone gets the Solas Titan 4 blade 13 x 21 prop. So that's what I put on.
Very happy with them. Good hole shot, good cruise and WOT 6100 rpm.
I know the boats are totally different but thought I'd give you the info, might be worth a try.
Cheers, Scotty.

[fishing111]

Honda you've probably seen it, but if not there is a write up on the old geared 140 suzuki 4 st, on Seamedia under the engine section. It's on the back of a 600RF Signature, a bit heavier and longer than yours.

[pilchardjones]

honda,
i have an 07 suzi 140 on a 6m goldstar plate boat. i traded in my 115 4s yamaha on it last year.

i used to get about 32MPH top with the yamaha, and cruise about 23MPH at 4600.

With the suzi i get about 39MPH top and cruise at about 25MPH at 4500, and quite often 28MPH at 5000.

I think fuel burn is about the same at around 20l/hr. I have not noticed any issues with hole shot, but both motors are on the low side of horsepower for this boat i feel. the 150 suzi would be beautiful.

the suzi is running a 19" SS 3 blade solas.
the yam was running a 15" 4 blade SS solas.

hope this helps.

steve

[honda900]

pilchardjones,

Yep thats my next step, solas are to trade the 4 blade for a 3 blade 19" What weight is your boat? Is it a half cab or a centre console?

My boat is actually 5.55 metres with a pod bringing it to 6m LOA.

Mate all the writeups and figures I have seen indicate that I should be able to get what I want from the engine, when it runs through the rev range it does not struggle at all so horsepowe is not really an issue.

It just seems to be how the prop gets forward movement through the water.

Regards
Honda.

[mirage]

Have you changed the height of your motor at all. This can have significant effects on performance!!

[black runner]

Honda,

Just looking at your figures it seems to me that a slightly smaller diameter 21p might do the trick. I read a Yammie 150 2st to 150 4st repower article recently where the owner had to keep the pitch the same but drop the diameter slightly so that he could achieve spec'd WOT. Went from 5300 rpm (15x17p) to 6000rpm (14-1/4x17p) Solas SS Lexor. A 700rpm difference!

May help when talking to the Solas people

Cheers - Fred

[honda900]

mirage,

After trialling the first "21 prop left it with the dealer, who changed it to the 19, which has made a significant differnce, Its my understanding that they didnt change the motor height.

black runner,

going up to see solas in a few minutes, who have recommeded a 3 blade so hopefully will be able to test tomorrow.

With the current 14x19 I am able to get to full 6000-6100 rpm just the boat speed is down about 10-15kph all the way through the rev range.

Regards
HOnda

[FNQCairns]

There are only a few different props but lot's of different motor/boat/load condions, trying to fit a square peg into a roundhole with off the shelf props doesn't work well, 80% of all the boats out there that reach the specified WOT still do not have a prop that works well, every trip costs these people money/enjoyment in lost cruise speed/top speed.

Honda with the 19 you should see 61km/h with 10% slip and
68km/h with the 21.

You have found the 19 works but have decided to go the next step, if all of the props you used were a single brand it's time to change brands or get the 21 worked, most cup gone and/or if not happy start tipping it to reduce diameter. You will fly (relative to now) with some work done to it.

Bucketloads of marketing and indifferent or stereotypical advice on what changes what with props from sellers will most leave a poor end result but hitting WOT none the less, wot is an important part of the end result but still just a part.

You might find an off the shelf prop that does what you want although to reach 68+km/h it must be a 21inch or you are being fooled and stick with 3 blades for the efficiency 4 blades will rob you blind unless cruise speed is all you will ever see or do.

Raise your engine too, the biggest hint one needs to suspect it is needed is when the driver is happy with where it is ATM.

cheers fnq

[Malcolm W]

Honda, My Yamaha 115 2 stroke suffered from bad cavitation( original 3 blade stainless ) on a 5.5 plate ali and as a consequence the motor was set up lower than it should be. This caused other problems such as the boat leaning to port under power ( cav plate digging in ). When I rang solas the first question I got was is it the 115 2 stroke or 115 4 stroke. He then went on to explain that the 2 stroke was ok to push a 4 blade and the 4 stroke was better suited to a 3 blade. The result was a 4 blade fitted and motor raised 3 notches. I gained 5 knots extra speed and a fuel saving as well. I am suprised you are still getting the revs and not the speed with the 4 blade as mine grips very well. Raising the motor seemed to make the difference of 1 -2 knots a notch. If you raise the motor just use a block of soft wood under the skeg and take out the top bolts loosen the bottom and wind your jokey wheel down on your trailer. Hope you have some luck fitting the 3 blade.
Regards Mal.

[honda900]

Firstly thanks to all for your input,

Still dont have it solved but have done some more testing over the weekend. Went and spoke to solas, who gave me a 3 and 4 blade to try, the following are now the results of the 5 props I have tested;

So far the latest 4 blade has been the best through the mid range but lost it at 6000 rpm.

Speed in kilometers an hour from the GPS

Suzuki 13*21 - 3Blade Speed

1000 5.5
2000 10.3
3000 15.4
4000 33.3
WOT 59
Hole shot > 5 seconds

Solas 13*21 - 4 blade Speed

1000
2000 9.4
3000 13
4000 21
WOT N/A
Hole shot N/A

Suzuki 14*19 - 3 Blade Speed

1000 5.5
2000 10.3
3000 15.4
4000 33.3
WOT -6100 59.6
Hole shot 2.4

Solas 13 7/8*19- 3 blade Speed

prop3
1000 6.5
2000 10.7
3000 15.3
4000 32.2
5000 45.7
WOT -61500 60.5
Hole shot 2.4

Solas 13*19 - 4 blade -uncupped Speed

prop5
1000 6.4
2000 11.3
3000 16.4
4000 35.3
5000 48.2
WOT-6000 60
Hole shot 2.4

The one thing that stands out is how easily the engine reaches redline, I created a (pretty poor video) using my phone camera at the rally the other day to give you an idea how easily the boat planes, but also just continues through to redline or in this case with the solas 4 blad 13*19 prop on board. (basically the planing speed is same as the Yam)

youll see me from about 100 rpm to plane then up to 6k struggles a bit up high but from 4k-5k just flies with no cavatation.

http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l269/honda900_uw/?action=view&current=Video000.flv

Also took a photo of the cav plate at the back of the boat.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l269/honda900_uw/PHOT0048.jpg



Regards
HOnda

[FNQCairns]

Honda what is it you are after, best case or even the bare minimum you be happy with? you have a few there most would be happy with, I wouldn't be but most would, from here on to get more you risk taking something away but it depends on what is acceptable to you?

The hole shot spec is a little redundent so is the 1k and 2k rpm specs, well done including the 3,4,5K specs though, it's very important to consider them. The only other piece of data worthy would be the speed the boat falls of the plane with each prop (engine trimmed in fully each time).

cheers fnq

[honda900]

Honda what is it you are after, best case or even the bare minimum you be happy with? you have a few there most would be happy with, I wouldn't be but most would, from here on to get more you risk taking something away but it depends on what is acceptable to you?

The hole shot spec is a little redundent so is the 1k and 2k rpm specs, well done including the 3,4,5K specs though, it's very important to consider them. The only other piece of data worthy would be the speed the boat falls of the plane with each prop (engine trimmed in fully each time).

cheers fnq


FNQCairns,

fair point, I dont really use the top end of the rev range too much at all, so what I am trying to get to is a decent cruise speed in the 4000-4500 rpm range while trying to maintain the fuel economy, ie no point increasing the range of the boat if it takes 8 hours to get where your going.

So what i am looking for is a balance of performance and speed in the mid range like i said I dont really use the top end and know full well the dangers of running engines hard.

What I would like is another 5kms on the latest 4 blade prop. which would bring the me back to what I had.

I was hoping to find someone with a similiar setup to me that is getting what I think is achievable with the engine, but more so to confirm that it is possbible and potentially be able to swap some setup info on how to get it there.

I have had a lot of bikes over the years, hence the honda alias, and know that the boat is running through the rev range far too quickly however not having any real boat setup experience finding it difficult to put my finger on the change in setup that will balance the package, so really trying to work through the components that I can change to try to understand.


Regards
HOnda

[black runner]

Honda, have just done a few sums -

Taking a look at the specs of each motor the following would appear to be the case:

Yammie 130 gear ratio 2:1 therefore @ 6k, engine rpm = 3000 prop shaft rpm assuming no slip (theoretical speed) for the exercise the 17p would travel 51000"/min or 48.29 mph or 77kph.

Suzuki 140 gear ratio 2.59:1 therefore @ 6k, engine rpm = 2317 prop shaft rpm
assuming no slip a 17p would travel 39389"/min or 37.3 mph (60kph), 19p would travel 44023"/min or 41.6 mph (66kph), 21p 48636"/min or 46 mph (74kph).

Because of the lower gearing it would appear that you would need at least 21p theoretical to come near the speed of the 2:1 ratio Yamaha.

This obviously doesn't take into account other factors but there is no escaping the reduced prop rpm and therefore needing to compensate with much higher pitch. It then comes down to the additional torque and hp required to drive the additional pitch. It would be interesting to know at what rpm max torque and max hp is on the Suzie.

Cheers - Fred M

[FNQCairns]

Ok that's fair enough and exactly what I would be chasing too, just a little on that 4 blade - the ONLY reason it performs well for the pitch is the lack of cup (all of the 3 blades have cup), apart from marketing, us with relativly slow fishing rigs cup is nothing but a waste of fuel money and cruise speed/top speed, to the manufacturers of many props it is an easy way to standardise a prop in a lineup ie control the rpm it pulls for the pitch it has, designing an entire new prop is costly.

Running more cup than absolutely nessesary is like burning money (same goes for diameter). The point is a 4 blade will never be as efficient as a 3 blade, physics says it cannot- not just me, a 4 blade is always better than a very poor setup boat with a 3 blade or for very specific reasons like some cats or a an abalone boat or an oyster punt etc.

Anyway the point is what are you open to? If I were you I would drop the prop brands you are trying to get working and turn to a SS mercury prop and start the process over again, you should be surprised with the end result, if you nail one straight from the shelf that works well, if you go the higher end props(advised) it will pay you back in cold hard cash over not that long really when compared to the two peas in a pod prop brands you have been testing.

If for some reason you cannot take this direction, look toward a 21p with the smallest diameter in any brand and try it, BTW what diameter are the props in your tests? does 13 mean 13.0 and 14 mean 14.0

cheers fnq

[Wahoo]

Ok that's fair enough and exactly what I would be chasing too, just a little on that 4 blade - the ONLY reason it performs well for the pitch is the lack of cup (all of the 3 blades have cup), apart from marketing, us with relativly slow fishing rigs cup is nothing but a waste of fuel money and cruise speed/top speed, to the manufacturers of many props it is an easy way to standardise a prop in a lineup ie control the rpm it pulls for the pitch it has, designing an entire new prop is costly.

Running more cup than absolutely nessesary is like burning money (same goes for diameter). The point is a 4 blade will never be as efficient as a 3 blade, physics says it cannot- not just me, a 4 blade is always better than a very poor setup boat with a 3 blade or for very specific reasons like some cats or a an abalone boat or an oyster punt etc.

Anyway the point is what are you open to? If I were you I would drop the prop brands you are trying to get working and turn to a SS mercury prop and start the process over again, you should be surprised with the end result, if you nail one straight from the shelf that works well, if you go the higher end props(advised) it will pay you back in cold hard cash over not that long really when compared to the two peas in a pod prop brands you have been testing.

If for some reason you cannot take this direction, look toward a 21p with the smallest diameter in any brand and try it, BTW what diameter are the props in your tests? does 13 mean 13.0 and 14 mean 14.0

cheers fnq



Pheewww Scott, good post ;)


Daz

[FNQCairns]

Because of the lower gearing it would appear that you would need at least 21p theoretical to come near the speed of the 2:1 ratio Yamaha.


Cheers - Fred M

Agree absolutely! and it is possible if he can find the right diameter and brand of prop, the known lack of torque (and possibly hp)the Zuk 140 puts out becomes evident when compared to another engine that is making their stated output.

cheers fnq

[jon80]

Honda ,
After setting up alot of suzuki 140 s I think you need to look at engine height as this motor will run better higher than yuor 130 yam also with revs you get out of your 19 pitch prop I would try & find someone with a (genuine) 20 inch stainless this would have a huge difference accelerating & mid to top end performance.

regards Jon80

[honda900]

Thanks guys, plenty of useful info;

Solas are going to send me a 13*21 3 blade to see if it helps seeing how I was able to hit redline with relative ease.

FNQCairns, Mate If i can find the right prop to get what I want, I am not brand specific. What merc prop would you suggest, I will see if I can sort one out locally?

Wahoo,
with the numbers it is just as listed on the prop itself ie 13*19 solas blade.

jon80,

Mate I can probly get a genuine through the dealer, will see if I can borrow one tomorrow. 20

Found a victorian with a Yalta the same as mine with a Johnson 140 he runs a
a 13.3/4 hr titan 17 pitch and gets around the 65k @ 5900rpm.


Regards
Honda

[black runner]

Hi Honda,

Not sure if you saw the numbers with respect to ratios up further, but your gear ratio does require you to use a higher pitch prop than the 17 on the Johnno if you want to get similar speeds to your Yammie. Your prop shaft is turning slower for the same engine rpm. The gear ratio on the Johnson will be different for sure.

I am with FNQ on this one - you need to work on a 21p to get near your old figures.

Regards - Fred

[honda900]

black runner,

Everyone is saying the same thing, but the 21's that I have tried dont seem to be getting anywhere near the 19's, Solas is about to send me a 3 blade 21 to try and I will see if I can get hold of a 20 from the dealer, to try as well.

Hopefully will find some thing to fix it up.

Regards
Honda

[Far side]

Honda ,
After setting up alot of suzuki 140 s I think you need to look at engine height as this motor will run better higher than yuor 130 yam also with revs you get out of your 19 pitch prop I would try & find someone with a (genuine) 20 inch stainless this would have a huge difference accelerating & mid to top end performance.

regards Jon80

Jon 80 is right the zuks run higher than the yammies have done it on 2 boats with zukes

[honda900]

Jon 80 is right the zuks run higher than the yammies have done it on 2 boats with zukes

Far side,

How many holes did you raise the engine?

I only have one to go so will limit my options somewhat.

Regards
Honda

[black runner]

Honda,

Merc Marine have 20p ss props and a wide variety if diameters in other pitches and profiles. LaserII in the 3 blade 13.5"x 20p

All the best on the quest.

Cheers - Fred

[FNQCairns]

Far side,

How many holes did you raise the engine?

I only have one to go so will limit my options somewhat.

Regards
Honda

Your pic looks like it is probably OK cannot say for sure though.

BLs Merc Lazer 2 20p sounds like a contender, it will make a big difference but may over-rev, beg borrow or steal one of those for a test run, better props than the others mentioned here as a bonus.

The 21 lazer 2 might be a shot also at 13 7/8 dia but would need some work done to it I suspect like cup removed and tipping but it would probably be a good end result but all a guess without a test.

Without knowing what the diameter of each prop in your posts, hard to map a good indication of what may work esp when swapping brands, how come they don't include that on the props? I do VERY much doubt any of the 3bl props were 13 neat but I don't take much (any) notice of the solas sizes.

cheers fnq

[TCSunCoast]

Honda, we replaced a 140 suzi 2 stroke with a 140 suzi 4 stroke on a 6m plate boat and it is more economical, faster out of the hole and has more top end.
Get on the suzi website and get the jefferes motorsport number. Graham will go out it with you and sort it out. If he cannot I'm not sure who will. This will save you time and heartache.
We told him what we wanted performance wise eg, out of the hole etc and he set it up in the shed at the right height and prop. Sea trialed and made no changes. Left mooloolaba the other day with it breaking across the front and zipped it and out like a surf boat with three big guys in it.

Tony

[Far side]

Far side,

How many holes did you raise the engine?

I only have one to go so will limit my options somewhat.

Regards
Honda

Mate go and see mick at mr t's or give him a call he will give you solid advice on the mounting. I would start there first

[honda900]

Just an update, Trialled another prop on the weekend, the turning point, haven't been able to get hold of a 20 pitch Merc prop as yet, might see if I can ring another dealer tomorrow, any suggestions of a merc dealer on the south side?

The TPP prop really laboured the engine, and went no where near redline.
by the way falls of the plane at 24 kms. Have got to say, there doesnt seem to be anyway this engine is able to swing the 21, I would be frightend to cross a bar with it, particularly around the amount of time it takes to get the boat on the plane. I have another solas to try, 3 blade but wont get to it to the weekend.

Turning point 14*21
1000 6.9
2000 11.8
3000 16.2
4000 38.5
5000 51.4
WOT - 5700 58.2
Hole shot > 5 seconds

Suzuki 13*21 - 3Blade Speed
1000 5.5
2000 10.3
3000 15.4
4000 33.3
WOT 59
Hole shot > 5 seconds

Suzuki 14*19 - 3 Blade Speed
1000 5.5
2000 10.3
3000 15.4
4000 33.3
WOT -6100 59.6
Hole shot 2.4

Solas 13 7/8*19- 3 blade Speed
1000 6.5
2000 10.7
3000 15.3
4000 32.2
5000 45.7
WOT -61500 60.5
Hole shot 2.2

Solas 13*21 - 4 blade Speed
1000
2000 9.4
3000 13
4000 21
WOT N/A
Hole shot N/A

Solas 13*19 - 4 blade -uncupped Speed
1000 6.4
2000 11.3
3000 16.4
4000 35.3
5000 48.2
WOT-6000 60
Hole shot 2.2

Regards
Honda

[disorderly]

Honda, we replaced a 140 suzi 2 stroke with a 140 suzi 4 stroke on a 6m plate boat and it is more economical, faster out of the hole and has more top end.

Tony

Geez, suzuki must have made crap 2 strokes.
No wonder they stopped.

Scott

[Greg P]

Geez, suzuki must have made crap 2 strokes.
No wonder they stopped.

Scott


Evinrude = Ficht ;D;D;D;D;D;D;D

[disorderly]

Evinrude = Ficht ;D;D;D;D;D;D;D

No need to bring other brands into it Greg.
I was just making an observation that it a manufacturers 4 stroke blows away their equivalent 2 stroke( although some of suzuki's HP rating's are debatablehttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/undecided.gif)then might be time to give up....apparently they agreed.http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/rolleyes.gif

scott

[Greg P]

No need to bring other brands into it Greg.
I was just making an observation that it a manufacturers 4 stroke blows away their equivalent 2 stroke( although some of suzuki's HP rating's are debatablehttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/undecided.gif)then might be time to give up....apparently they agreed.http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/rolleyes.gif

scott

Interesting comment - I would like to see any shred of evidence about the hp rating being less. Lots talk about it but it is hearsay - no evidence just a bit more internet canon. Ive seen CARB tests on Zukes and they put out the hp @ stated rpm

[Luke G]

Hey mate that 4 blade solas 13x19 seems to give you the best cruising speed, how accurate is your info? I'm looking at getting one of those for my next prop.

Cheers

[honda900]

Luke G,

All the info is measured on GPS speed, same location, so is pretty accurate for my boat (trimmed before measuring). Not only was it up there for cruise speed still a fair bit down on the Yam but the fuel consumption (Lowrance fuel sender unit installed, only displays in gallons).

So the fuel consumption for the 4 blade @ 4000rpm is 4.5 Gallons p/H, At 4200rpm the fuel consumption jumps to 5 gallons an hour. The Yam @ 4000 was 7.4 Gallons per Hour and at 4200 rpm 7.8 Gallons an Hour.

The fuel consumption while testing has also been measured with all the 3 blade 19's around the same figures. The 21s have been in the 5-5.5 @ 4000 and up to 6.3 gallons per Hour range @ 4500rpm.

1 gallon = 3.78 litres.

Regards
Honda.

[Luke G]

Thanks for that mate.

[tin can marlin]

At he end of the day the dealer who re powered it should have water tested and fixed it before you pick it up that is what we pay them big bucks for.

[honda900]

Doing a bit more digging it appears that the gearbox ratio change has made no difference at all.

http://www.romseysac.com/equipment/boat/engine/df140.pdf

Does anyone know when they change the box ration to 2:59:1?


Regards
Honda.

[Spaniard_King]

The sept 2006 models had the revised gear ratio

[tin can marlin]

They changed it in early 2007 you should have the new model.

[honda900]

Just an update, been away with work so havent had time to do any more testing.

Turning point 14*21
1000 6.9
2000 11.8
3000 16.2
4000 38.5
5000 51.4
WOT - 5700 58.2
Hole shot > 5 seconds

Suzuki 13*21 - 3Blade Speed
1000 5.5
2000 10.3
3000 15.4
4000 33.3
WOT 59
Hole shot > 5 seconds

Suzuki 14*19 - 3 Blade Speed
1000 5.5
2000 10.3
3000 15.4
4000 33.3
WOT -6100 59.6
Hole shot 2.4

Solas 13 7/8*19- 3 blade Speed
1000 6.5
2000 10.7
3000 15.3
4000 32.2
5000 45.7
WOT -61500 60.5
Hole shot 2.2

Solas 13*21 - 4 blade Speed
1000
2000 9.4
3000 13
4000 21
WOT N/A
Hole shot N/A

Solas 13*19 - 4 blade -uncupped Speed
1000 6.4
2000 11.3
3000 16.4
4000 35.3 17.0 LPH
5000 48.2
WOT-6000 60 33.0 LPH
Hole shot 2.2

Solas 13 7/8 * 21
1000 6.5
2000 11.5
3000 16.5
4000 36 18.9 Lph
5000 52
WOT 5800 60.8 35.5 Lph
Hole shot > 5 seconds

I have given up on the 21 pitch props, More that 5 seconds to get on the plane, is plain dangerous, I have to cross a bar everywhere within a 100kms of where I live in Brisbane so that was an easy decision. I also found the fuel consumption for the 21’s to be excessive compared to the 19’s, still trying to get hold of a Mercury 20 to test.

At the ramp the other week, I pulled up behind a bloke with a Suzi 140 on the back of a freedom sport 6m offshore, jumped out and had a chat to him, was interesting to see that he had the 13*19 solas 4 blade on the boat as well, he was getting the same speed in the rev range as I was, even the same top speed.

Regards
Honda

[FNQCairns]

Interesting figures, the 4 blade sure shows it's form when uncupped almost no-one runs a 4 blade well on a mono, I keep saying here cup on our rigs is like throwing money overboard every hour on the hour.

You can do much better but you will need to think outside the square, I know it's more typical to just pick a bad prop from a crop of bad props and hope for the best, suzuiki did no favours when they changed leg ratio.

IMO when you are ready for an end point, find yourself a 3bl true 20P even a 21P possibly? (aluminium even will do better than those above) decup it, then tip it until your max rpm is reached and be happy with the new found performance and fuel savings.

cheers fnq

[Astro]

Mate you seem to be having really bad luck with your setup

My setup is very similar to yours, boat weights about 700-800kg + engine and equip, we usually have 2-3 people on board and with the standard alloy prop, without the bimini targa we hit 50-55mph, and with the targa and clears on we hit 45-50mph both at 6000rpm.

Have recently baught at new ss prop and will be testing it over the long week end, should be interesting to see the difference.

[suzygs1000]

Hi, Honda,

I run a 07 Suzy 140 on a 5.8metre plate which I have weighed. All up, the boat, motor, gear and 50 litres of fuel weight spot on 1000kg's.

The motor came with a 3 blade 19 inch pitch prop, but it revved to 6500, so the dealer swapped it for a 21". He said all previous 140's he fitted used the 19" prop, but this was the first 07 model he fitted, and due to the lower ratio gearbox, it seemed to need the larger prop.

With three aboard, it pretty well runs at 30k's at 3000 revs, 40k's at 4000 revs, 50k's at 5000, and peaks at around 65k's at about 6200, which is pretty well spot on.

Fuel economy doesn't seem to be affected by speed or revs,(tho I have never sat it on 6000 for long) - it does about 2.2k's per litre whether I sit on 4000 or 5000 revs.

The hull has no planing strakes so is probably pretty slippery.

Don't ask me what the red undlerlining is, this computer just seems to add them here and there.

The motor is sitting as low on the transom as they could get it, and the vany thing (*can't think what it is called at the moment) is just about level with the hull with the motor trimmed right down.

By the way, motor is 18 months old, about 70 hours, and I consider it to be brilliant!

Dave.

Edit... disregard the red underlining bit - the draft has a number of words underlined in red, but they disappear when the message is posted??

[honda900]

suzygs1000,

Mate, still havent moved forward been too busy although last weekend too lazy, to do any more testing. I hope your not using the suzi speedo as a gauge, as mine is, well useless to say the least, thats why I have used the gps for speed. I think I mentioned earlier I ran into another bloke at the ramp with a 6.0 metre freedom, was getting identical speeds to me.

Thanks for the info though, still trying to get it just that bit better.

Regards
Honda

[suzygs1000]

Hi, Honda,

No. those speeds are from the GPS, altho my Suzuki speedo is pretty damn close to what the gps says.

Dave.

[Dicktracey]

Sorry to hijack thread Honda "your inbox is full"
Have found some great info in this thread guys and would like to add some data to it !
2012 140 Suzuki on 552 Evolution Hull.
14"x17"pitch alloy 3blade Suzuki prop
Rpm-speed km/h "GPs"
3rd hole from Top
6000-52= 0.14prop slip 14%
5500-46
5000-42
4500-36
4000-30
3500-16 just off plane

4th hole from top
Rpm-speed km/h "GPs" 14"x17pitch alloy Suzuki prop
6000-56= 0.05prop slip 5%
5500-50
5000-46
4500-38
4000-33
3500-20 still on plane
Thats a grand total of 10% average speed increase for no extra revs or change to prop size,Still no blow out :0
At 5000rpm cruising absolutly no spray off hull or engine with trim half way and cav plate parallel to hull.

Boat cruises very well at 5000rpm cuts 1meter swell at 45km/h very comfortably "should i push it and try the 19" pitch for better economy ?
What is the most economical cruising Rpm/speed ?
thanks
Dick

[honda900]

No probs,

have had a mailbox cleanup.

This prop was what I chose in the end and on my hull has performed the best overall.

Solas 14 1/8 *18 - 4 blade Speed Fuel LPH
1000 6.8 1.4
2000 10.9 5.8
3000 16.4 11.4
4000 36.3 17.4
5000 49.6 26.8
WOT-6000 63.5 40.1
Hole shot 2



Regards
Honda.