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Swanny666
06-02-2008, 09:22 AM
Hello all,

We have decided to buy our first boat and are a bit green. I was hoping there might be a way of gathering unbiased info.

She will be second hand and once I choose the model and type I will need to know how to get her checked out before money changes hands. This is where I need your experience.

Some of the things I am wanting to know are

How to find out what a fair price is.
Fuel usuage expectations
Whether the motor is in need of serious repairs
What model boat holds a better resale value
Best insurer.
Trustworthy boat dealers in the Sydney/Newcastle areaWe are leaning toward either the 18 foot Haines and 18 foot Sea Ray. Or we may buy something bigger like a 30 foot mustang sports cruiser.

I want to be able to drag the kids arround on a donught, wet a line or just kick back. The Sports cruiser would offer us the option of staying a few day aboard but not sure how she goes fuel wise.

All advice would be a great help.

Cheers

Swanny

on-one
06-02-2008, 10:06 AM
Very hard to answer with such a broad spec (18-30ft) but once you're getting up around the 30ft if you can afford to buy, moor, maintain, antifoul, insure etc etc fuel costs are the least of your worries. It'd be a bit cumbersome for towing the kids too. Maybe something like the 24ft mustang would be a better compromise

PADDLES
06-02-2008, 10:15 AM
G'day Swanny, some answers for you

- There is very rarely any such thing as unbiased information
- Do heaps of research on sites such as boatpoint and the trading post to get a feel for the values (this can take many months to do it properly)
- Read through reviews on the net, in magazines and also search on sites like this to get a feel of fuel consumption figures.
- Get a marine mechanic to inspect/assess any prospective purchase to see what condition it is in.
- When you do the pricing research you'll see patterns forming on resale value. Generally they all hold reasonable value (as compared to what you paid for the boat in the first place). The exceptions are when something gets a bit older they lose value fairly suddenly and also something with a conventional 2s outboard will devalue fairly rapidly in the coming years (and over the past few years for that matter).
- Best insurer is a toughy, shop around and make sure you read the policy carefully to ensure you are getting the level of cover you require.
- I'm north of brissy so can't comment on the dealership side of things. These days though they have to offer some form of warranty and they want to protect their integrity so they really don't sell trash, you'd be more likely to get a dud off somewhere like ebay.

Remember that it's impossible (or extremely difficult) to get one boat that does everthing you or your family want so compromise is the key. ie. a 30 foot cruiser is not a practical boat to be using to tow the kids on a tube and it won't tow home and fit in the back yard. on the other hand the missus mightn't be too keen on having a wee in a bucket at the front of a 16 foot centre console.

Good luck with your search and make sure you take the wife and kids you might be surprised with what they come up with.

backlash08
06-02-2008, 10:25 AM
Hi Swanny, as per previous posts, a broad question but a few suggestions I would have,
1, spend the time to understand exactly what you want the boat to do and understand how long you want to own it for, if you are prepared to turn boat over every few years then buy the boat that you want for today, I see many people (and I've been one) buy a boat for what they want to do today but dont really consider what the wife or kids might want to do in the years to come
2, Once you have decided what you want the boat to do then speak to many others who have the same expectations, weigh up the pros and cons of each boat and norrow your options don to two or three
3, test the boats on the list and go from there, get a reputable marine expects to check the hull, motor etc for quality
4, understand that every boat is a comprimise and learn to live with that
5, enjoy the experience

cheers
Craig

Swanny666
06-02-2008, 11:06 AM
Hi Gents,

Thanks for the help so far. You are right about such a broad range 18'- 30' That's our starting point and will narrow as we understand our needs better.

Our kids are really teenagers at schhool and Uni which means they are into being towed around whilst I am into fishing, prawning, swimming and kicking back. The missus is the same as me but really likes the idea of a bigger boat on a swing mooring in Sydney. I guess a bit like a weekender on the water.

I also like the idea of not needing help to launch my boat because of injury but also just to be able to mosey down to her by myself when I feel like it. Budget of $100,000.

As to the brands Mustang, Haines and Sea Ray any opinions which is the better boat for resale etc? I should add we would expect to keep our boat for at least 5 years especially if we buy a 30'

Cheers Fellas

PADDLES
06-02-2008, 11:53 AM
Swanny, getting the right boat first time round is pretty difficult and if you were to spend your budget and then have to get rid of it because it wasn't suitable it could become a costly excercise (possibly 15-20% loss).

I'm going out on a limb here and suggesting maybe a 25 foot berty with a couple of stern drives in it. you'll get a big heavy boat that's comfy to stay aboard, a quite capable fishing platform and suitable for mooring. no good for dragging kids in a tube though. you'll find one in pretty good nick for less than $40k and so have only spent less than 40% of the budget. The missus and kids will get the opportunity to see if they like this boating thing and if they want something more you flog it for minimal loss (maybe $5k) and spend that $100k budget on a later model cruiser, if on the other hand they hate it you still flog it off and buy a trailerable fishing rig for yourself. you never know, you may just fall in love with the berty and hang onto it.

Swanny666
06-02-2008, 11:59 AM
Thanks Paddles.....

Will check it out but think we'll need to accomadate the need to tow the kids hence i have just been reading up on the mustang 28'.

Seems to be able to meet the different needs.

Swanny

on-one
06-02-2008, 12:15 PM
Swanny something else to consider, it's a lot easier to use a boat regularly if your wife enjoys it too and the point paddles made earlier about weeing in a bucket is worth considering. My wife's only stipulation when we were looking was that the boat had to have a seperate shower and toilet. If you've got the budget (and it seems you do) get yourself something with an enclosed head makes it much more pleasant spending longer periods aboard.

FNQCairns
06-02-2008, 12:16 PM
If you do go a big hull like 20ft+ in this instance and you would like to tow the kids be prepared to get abused by all in the immediate area for the wash it creates, very anti social and inot mpossible to find yourself defending against some other persons medical expenses.

imo 28ft is too big to do all that you want well and is also a little irresponsible as well, more a wine and cheese cruiser which is great for kicking back and enjoying the day and all it has to offer..that is if you buy it mainly for what it does well.

cheers fnq

BM
06-02-2008, 12:19 PM
The new Caribbean 24 flybridge is about $90K, a Caribbean 26 flybridge with a pair of V6's in it will cost you about $70K secondhand and perhaps 10 yrs old. Or a Caribbean Bertram 25 for around $50K or less.

All of these are well appointed for overnighting, with a galley, toilet, dinette.

Or theres early to mid 90's Searays in the 27ft plus category for about $60-90K depending on age, size and engine configuration. A customer (and friend) of mine is looking at a 31 Searay with twin 5.7's for about 55K. Its in NSW and a trip is in the works to go and mechanically assess it and do a deal.

With the budget you have I would go for a larger cruiser. Pleasing the Mrs is important and boating on a larger cruiser versus boating in a say 18-20 footer are 2 very different things. I find having a toilet and galley and table and SPACE!! is so much nicer than squished into a smaller boat.

Stick with a known brand, not some orphan and buy original. Nothing thats been tampered with and some weird arse engine configuration etc.... Boats don't depreciate like cars and in some cases they appreciate. With the cost of new boats increasing all the time a well maintained popular model used boat can actually resell for the same as you paid or more. I have seen this occur many times.

Cheers

PADDLES
06-02-2008, 12:37 PM
that's the "compromise" i was talking about swanny, if you want to tow kids then you need a bow rider less than 20 foot or you will be wasting time/petrol and annoying people to boot. the one boat will never do everything. however if you get a big boat and tow a 14 foot tinny with a big outboard as a tender then maybe it'll tow a tube. the one thing you won't be doing with a 24 plus foot gin palace is towing a tube, you will however be sitting on the back with a g&t in one hand and a rod in the other watching the world go by.

spears
06-02-2008, 01:02 PM
Swanny666 “ WROTE :
We have decided to buy our first boat and are a bit green.
Are you really sure buying a boat 18 foot or bigger is a wise thing to do as a first boat,I would have started with a 15-16 foot and learn boat handling and progress up the ladder.

Swanny666
06-02-2008, 01:27 PM
Guys......thanks for the input.

I am green with how to buy a power boat but did own a 25' Roberts Yacht prior to my accident 7 years ago. As I have not been in the water for a while I have lost touch with the marine world so to speak.

The wash comment/ abuse interests me as I thought it would only be a problem to those nearby. What's the right distance to keep everyone happy?

I'm kinda thinking that the priority in this will be the lifestyle/boating needs of me and my girl first followed by the need for speed reqiured by the kids in second or third place.

But having said that we are trying to create those happy memories that kids will look back on.....(sounds like a salesman 8-) )

You're right about keeping the girls happy so I may get a toilet seat for the bucket if we go for a smaller day boat ;D ;D

on-one
06-02-2008, 01:52 PM
Not sure how mobile you are after your accident/injury but it would be worth making sure you're ok getting in and out of a dinghy when the boat's on a swing mooring especially if you plan to use the boat alone.

My father's a bit unsteady on his feet and getting him on the boat at a jetty is fine but it's near impossible for him to get in or out of a dinghy when we're at anchor

joeT
06-02-2008, 03:04 PM
If you do go a big hull like 20ft+ in this instance and you would like to tow the kids be prepared to get abused by all in the immediate area for the wash it creates, very anti social and inot mpossible to find yourself defending against some other persons medical expenses.

imo 28ft is too big to do all that you want well and is also a little irresponsible as well, more a wine and cheese cruiser which is great for kicking back and enjoying the day and all it has to offer..that is if you buy it mainly for what it does well.

cheers fnq

I agree. You wouldn't be too popular anywhere if you towed a tube with a 28 foot boat. Towing a tube requires you to go reasonably fast and make quick turns, creating substantial wake in any boat, let alone something as big as 28ft. Unless you plan to tow the kids out at sea, you won't make too many friends in any river or estuary.

Swanny666
06-02-2008, 03:34 PM
On-One...That was a good point but luckly I can still get around Ok.

JoeT...having listened to the comments re towing in a big boat....am I wrong in assuming the same wake issues apply to say an 18' towing a tube?

If so how do you tow donughts without up setting people. Wouldn't there be legal distsance in the regs to prevent this?

Cheers

Swanny

snappa
06-02-2008, 05:13 PM
swanny


haines hunter is a great all round boat


buy my boat



seeker 585 [19ft]

boatboy50
06-02-2008, 07:24 PM
Swanny,

I agree with most of the comments and info provided above.

In the right hands (which it sounds like yours would be), towing a tube occassionally with a 28 footer is not too much of an issue. As you have stated, if you are away from anchorages and other people there is not too much of a problem. Depending on your engine power combos, expect to use anywhere between 30-100L/H in a Mustang style boat.

I have owned a 25ft Glastron sportscruiser for a while which is now for sale.

http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/details.aspx?R=2789252

It uses around 35l/h depending on your driving, and is ample for a weekender for a family (sleeps 6) to "get away from it all". The enclosed toilet/shower and seperate galley/fridge will win over the missus, and provide heaps of happy and comfortable outings. You can't go wrong with this style of boat for weekending use.

One thing to look out for in this market is that it is better to buy a boat that has not been antifouled, and that has been dry stored. The motor will have a lot more life left in it, and will cause you less issues. An antifouled boat is generally a time bomb waiting to go off. You will find plenty of dry stored boats, especially in Qld and Melbourne.

PM me if you are interseted in my boat, there is a fair bit of negotiation in the price.

Otherwise, follow the above advice and you can't go too far wrong.

Regards

Darren

Swanny666
06-02-2008, 09:36 PM
Hi Darren,

Thanks to you and all the others for taking the time to share.

It's early days for my boat hunting but will have a look at your link.

Can you tell me why antifouling is a problem. As heaps of boats are on swing moorings and need this treatment at least once a year.

Many thanks

Swanny

boatboy50
06-02-2008, 09:40 PM
Hey Swanny,

It's not so much the antifoul that is the problem, more that the boat is stored in the saltwater 24/7. That means the engines and boat never get a proper fresh water wash, and the engine will corrode away a lot quicker.

I know you will be storing it in the water, but it's beter to start with as fresh a boat as you can, and something five years old stored in the water will need some money spent on it, where as a dry stored boat will not for quite a few years yet.

Regards

Darren

joeT
06-02-2008, 09:54 PM
JoeT...having listened to the comments re towing in a big boat....am I wrong in assuming the same wake issues apply to say an 18' towing a tube?

If so how do you tow donughts without up setting people. Wouldn't there be legal distsance in the regs to prevent this?

Cheers

Swanny

Wake issues apply to any sort of water skiing/tubing, but generally a 18' boat gives much smaller wake than a 28' boat, at a given speed. Just take any 12' tinny to the gold coast broadwater on the weekend and you'll understand what I mean.

Of course, if you do it away from any anchorages or the shoreline, there will be no one around to upset.

Swanny666
07-02-2008, 12:24 PM
Thanks joeT....

I guess it comes back to common sense and doing the right thing.

Cheers