Does night fishing mess up your sleep patterns?

[the gecko]

It sure messes up my sleep patterns. I work 9-5, and fish from 7pm-2am once a week, usually a week nite. By the time Im in bed its 3am, and Im up at 7.30am to go to work. This takes me at least one day to recover, and really 2 days to get over it properly.

Do any of you have any good tips or natural remedies for getting over this? I suppose its a bit like jet lag, when you go thru different time zones.

Maybe I should give up work, but it does pay for my fishing addiction.

cheers
Andrew

[insideout]

Gday andrew, unfortunately its called "burning the candle at both ends" or "living life to the most".....either way it catches up with you!! I do the same and find that berrocca works well for me for the early start after a long night fishing , but that night i usually crash out at 7:30 to try to catch up on lost sleep.

[T1]

LOL Andrew! I find it hard to get to bed before 11pm - 12am on a good night! If i'm off on a morning fish, i'm up at 2ish. A night fish is similiar finish time to you and our little one is up at 5.30-6.00am most mornings. So, yes like you, it takes me at least 2 days to get my senses back - and i'm only 37!

Remedies? Lots of caffeine gets me through the day and sometimes i'll actually manage a 10pm bedtime the same night (morning fish) or the next night (night fish).

Gee, it was only 5-6yrs ago that i used skip sleeping Sat nights (on the back of 60hr weeks) - but when you're chasing the opposite sex, its different i guess...

Take Care T

[PinHead]

It is easy..go to sleep everynight at between 9 and 10pm..ands wake between 2 and 3am every day..7 days a week...the night fishing trips are then easy to cope with..body gets used to not sleeping much anyway.

[FNQCairns]

If it were me I would need to run or do some sort of cardio vascular equivalent to a 5km run each day + drop 10kg and eat a more balanced diet. I would be able to cope much better under your circumstances, I (we?) are our own worst enemies.

These days if I cannot do it easy I will think twice, as the above sounds like a nightmare alive:) was ok when I was younger though.

cheers fnq

[charleville]

I am naturally nocturnal and that is what is so good about early retirement, is you can sleep whenever you want.

Like today, I just had a nice snooze from about 10 am to 12.30 pm. Got up - had a look at the internet - had some lovely fresh crab sandwiches for lunch and - er - oh - ahh - dammit, I feel like another snooze. ;D ;D ;D

However, I will also be up at 12.30 am to see what happens on the New York Stock Exchange and then read 20 newspapers online from around the world. Then a bit more snooze. ;D ;D ;D


Come winter though and you will find me out in the bay several nights each week.



http://img.skitch.com/20080123-8e144urb1819qpmd68imun629.jpg


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[seamaid]

;D we found the over night fishing more relaxation, try to have a camp while these big tides up here ( urangan ) decelerates,pretty hard when you got boats
motoring around.
generally we have a nanna nap after the cleaning of fish & boat.
Please dont comment on the nanna nap we are retirees.:P
Cheers Seamaid :D

[Fishin_Dan]

Andrew.... Aren't you the boss of your company? Just have "a meeting" in the morning and start in the office about 11am.... ;)

[baitwaster]

This retirement idea sounds bloody good to me.
I only have to work my guts out for another 25 years
and I am there!!!

Andrew, maybe we should all quit work, get pregnant
and go on a single mothers pension.

Spend the baby bonus on rods'n'reels, and live
it up courtesy of Wayne Swan.

BTW - If anyone has a spare million or so lying
around, PM me...... Thanks.

[Lone_Wolf]

Andrew,

The way I see it is it's not the night fishing that knocks you around, it's the cushy 9-5 job.
Get a job with long, irregular hours that pays well. This keeps you constantly stressed and in a state of sleep deprivation. That way when you go fishing, not only will it be far more relaxing but when you return to work you will still be in the same condition as before.
Works for me!:sleeping:

LW

[mad_pierre06]

At the moment I work nights anyway, so even though there is a regularity about my sleep patterns (finish at 7am, shower and breakfast then asleep by 8.30, up around 1 or 2'ish, do stuff, have dinner then sleep from around 8'ish through to 10, start work at 11 ), it isn't rested sleep due to being completely out of natural alignment. I have hardly felt like a fish for the last three weeks, but am going to go anyways because i know how relaxing it is.

With your predicament Andrew, like other posters when i used to burn the candle at both ends ... just put up with it and grab what sleep you can ;D . Lots of coffee, and just try and get through those couple days it takes to recuperate. I don't hold with the 'V' or 'Red Bull' solution, those things are damn addictive and will stuff your kidneys.

If anybody's hanging around the Boat Passage around midday saturday, give 'us a a yell.

[nigelr]

One of the things I am most looking forward to about semi-retirement is the ability to become more nocturnal.
I love night fishing, and the daytime heat in summer is something I will gladly avoid.
I fish of a night mainly in winter, I'm not so busy mowing lawns that time of year and able I'm to have an easier day next day.
In summer, rarely go as I'm too bu$$ered from mowing all day in the heat and humidity. One of the joys of being 50+, not!
Instead, to get my fix I'll get up early and fish an hour each side of dawn, I find that less tiring than late night/early hours sessions, can still cope with the day without too many dramas.
LOVE that night fishing!
Cheers!

[charleville]

One of the things I am most looking forward to about semi-retirement is the ability to become more nocturnal.
I love night fishing, and the daytime heat in summer is something I will gladly avoid.
I fish of a night mainly in winter,........................................... .................................................. .................................................. .............


LOVE that night fishing!




I am 100% with you there, matey! 100% !


There is just so much more to night fishing than day fishing and even though it may be cold on land, when you are past a couple of km out into Moreton Bay it gets warmer.


I find the trick is to go out while there is still some light as hitting unseen waves in the dark can be a bit disconcerting but when coming back to the boat harbour , the lights of the city and the port light up the water in front of you like daytime. Also, the surface is usually pretty flat late at night on the return trip.

[nigelr]

Charleville, I love to fish the surf at night, just me and a billion stars.
Totally awesome!
Cheers!

[Poodroo]

What sleep patterns? Usually when I know I am going fishing I get to bed in plenty of time however I just can't sleep. Must be the combination of excitement and thinking about possible boat preparations and making sure I don't forget anything.

Poodroo

[charleville]

Charleville, I love to fish the surf at night, just me and a billion stars.
Totally awesome!


Yeah - same for me out in the boat. :)


Actually, one place that is awesome at night is the Jacob's Well channel. Motoring back to the Jacob's Well ramp after having fished the 'Pin late at night is an extraordinary experience. It is usually well after midnight when I come back and at that time, it is like gliding along on a massive sheet of glass, all lit up because of the big lights at the ramp area.

Most night fishing is a surreal experience to me but that trip back to the ramp at Jacob's Well when there is not a zephyr of wind to stir up even the slightest ripple on the surface is something to remind you to not die before your time and then a bit.

I am with you on the stars also. It is the only time that I ever see shooting stars.

Also when you motor back from Mud Island to Manly late at night, you usually encounter lots of different smells drifting across the Bay - freshly cut pine, phenol, perfumes, - all sorts of smells. Truly surreal.


The therapeutic effects of these night time boating and fishing experiences on what goes on in one's head are infinitely more beneficial beyond anything written by Freud, Jung, or even Dr Phil! ;D


Many, many times I have to force myself to pull up anchor and come home. Even then, I will usually do a bit of drifting before finally starting the motor. :)


.

[Lovey80]

The best thing I can advise is if you like coffee try to limit your use of it until you need it. Caffine is an excellent tool/drug that if used wisely can be of great benefit but like with any drug continuos use on a daily basis will get the body tolerant to it's benefits and when you need the "pick me up" it either wont work or you'll need that much it's not worth your time.

Just a thought

Cheers Chris

[charleville]

This retirement idea sounds bloody good to me.
I only have to work my guts out for another 25 years
and I am there!!!

....................


BTW - If anyone has a spare million or so lying
around, PM me...... Thanks.



...as if! ;D


However, you might learn how not to have to wait 25 years if you read a few websites such as these ...
http://www.retireearlyhomepage.com/
http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/

There is a lot of American tax related stuff around their super schemes (so-called 401k plans, Roth plans etc etc etc over there) there but the basic principles are very sound if you go looking for stuff about the 4% principle.

A very good basic starter book to get you thinking about early retirement philosophy would be "Your Money OR Your Life" by Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin. Joe retired at 31 and died a few years ago at 61. Just as well that he did not wait for age 65 to retire. (Don't buy the Aussie book of a similar name by David Koch - get the US book)
http://www.yourmoneyoryourlife.org/


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[NAGG]

Any fishing messes up my sleep patterns!!!
I go to bed & then .. stay awake till the alarm goes off :( Worst still ... when you are driving 16-18 hours to go fishing:P Nagg

[mik01]

What sleep patterns? Usually when I know I am going fishing I get to bed in plenty of time however I just can't sleep. Must be the combination of excitement and thinking about possible boat preparations and making sure I don't forget anything.

Poodroo

mate I'm exactly the same. its gotten to the stage where I am considering seeing the doc for sleeping pills - seriously.
i keep going over everything that I have to remember in the morning (before leaving), and can't sleep. I then wake up 3-4 times during the night, and finally wake up 5 minutes before the alarm goes off!!::) typical

anyone here know if taking the odd sleeping pill the night before is or isn't a good idea when you need your wits about you early next morning?

[FNQCairns]

mate I'm exactly the same. its gotten to the stage where I am considering seeing the doc for sleeping pills - seriously.
i keep going over everything that I have to remember in the morning (before leaving), and can't sleep. I then wake up 3-4 times during the night, and finally wake up 5 minutes before the alarm goes off!!::) typical

anyone here know if taking the odd sleeping pill the night before is or isn't a good idea when you need your wits about you early next morning?

Not much is more important than a good nights sleep.

He may probably prescribe a smooth muscle relaxant (whatever that actually is), still a sleeping pill but not at all like a spoilt housewife type of sleeping pill I think.

Many years ago an old girlfriend who was a nurse played a trick on me and gave me a good dose of these in a banana smoothy, I suspected something was up as she never made me anything, anyway I simply pushed through them with ease ruining her joke at the time.
They have worked well before and after this episode if I wanted to get to sleep, with no after effects but that was years ago.

The antihistamine called Phenergan gets me to sleep easily whenever sleep time at normal doses and I am around 1/4 heavier than the typical adult dose usually advised.

cheers fnq

[oldboot]

A couple of things I have found work when doing long or broken hours working sound, lighting & AV jobs and on long trips.

1. eat and drink propelry all the time..... especilay in the days before during and after the weird hours.
Under no curcumstances allow yourself to become dehydrated.
Avoid alcohol, caffene, and carbhydrates.
Low GI foods and plenty of protein, lots of water.
Control you food intake, eat small meals and frequently.
Caffene is usefull in the aftermath for getting you thru and dark chocolate is much better than coffee.....and small amounts.....remember caffene is a stimulant and it borrows energy, which you will pay for with interest later.

2. sleep well in the days before.....

3. take a short sleep before you go out, no longer than 45 minutes, even if you have to put off going out by half an hour.

4. Eat something low in carbohydrates and fat before you go to bed. low fat milk is good.

If you want to push your body..... controll of what & when you eat is the secret.
I often work with bigger, stronger and more hardened crew....I fing if I controll my food intake I can out last them and stay awake more safley for the long drive home.
My wife is a nurse and regularly got noddy on the way home with the silly shifts they work.....untill we both discovered controlling food intake.

In short eat like a diabetic should.

You will still be whacked, but nowhere near as hard.

cheers

[NAGG]

Not much is more important than a good nights sleep.

He may probably prescribe a smooth muscle relaxant (whatever that actually is), still a sleeping pill but not at all like a spoilt housewife type of sleeping pill I think.

Many years ago an old girlfriend who was a nurse played a trick on me and gave me a good dose of these in a banana smoothy, I suspected something was up as she never made me anything, anyway I simply pushed through them with ease ruining her joke at the time.
They have worked well before and after this episode if I wanted to get to sleep, with no after effects but that was years ago.

The antihistamine called Phenergan gets me to sleep easily whenever sleep time at normal doses and I am around 1/4 heavier than the typical adult dose usually advised.

cheers fnq

I'll try to find out the name of that relaxant.
I'm no fan of sleeping pills (or any drugs) However , While I was down with my back injury & after 3 weeks of sleep deprivation ( no sleep at all) I asked my doctor for something! .... & I got the pills! It was a big help ... with no knock out effect ... Worked a treat!
Nagg
PS ..... I'm going to look for something from a Herbalist ( No ... not pot;D ) before I do my next big trip!

[chris58]

i have the other problem, i am a security guard and work 7pm to 5am 4on 3 off so i find it hard to sleep "normal time":-/ ps. bty i am 50 and it only gets harder::)

[the gecko]

Thanks guys. I reckon cardio and diet is probably the key. Unfortunately, I am 10kg overweight and dont get any excercise apart from throwing a castnet.

Hi Dan, I am the boss, and thats the problem... too many customers ATM. I need some staff. I often schedule 'appts' for 9-10am to give me a late start, but its still hard. I keep telling myself I will stop fishing at midnight, but theres always those tiddlers bites that keep you thinking a good fish will hit any minute. I do get a lot of good fish in the last few hours too.

Mad Pierre, I drink 2 cans of red bull during a session. Is there any evidence that they stuff your kidneys? Id like to know more, I thought the caffiene was minimal and the vitamins were good. I do find they make you wanna pee all nite while youre trying to sleep. I drink no more than 2 coffees on any given day.

Oldboot, they are good tips. I do find my body craves sugar hits the day after fishing. I thought this was normal, but I agree its borrowed energy. So low carb is they key?

cheers
Andrew

[MattChew]

I don't really get tired when I'm fishing, the sheer anticipation of catching fish and being on the water outweighs how tired I might be feeling. The only thing you have to remember is to not be tired, especially while you are in charge of a boat or a car. Just make sure you save 4 cans of V for the drive home and then get a couple of hours kip during the day.

Ta
Matt

[Dirtysanchez]

Simple off the shelf stuff like Zyrtec antihistamines work well, but if you want to get up at say 4am for a fish, take a half only, otherwise you won't wake up til 7am :P
I've been a shocking sleeper for years and tried a lot of prescriptions, but most of them are barbituate derivatives, so when you wake up you feel like herman munster for about an hour or 2, and thats bad for your job.

Also I have found that natural relaxants are OK, Zinc and magnesium supplements tend to relax muscles and assist with your natural immunity system. I have taken both for a few years now and have not suffered a bad flu.

Definitely exercise in the mornings works, it sets your system into a healthy rythym and by 10pm you are stuffed and happy to go to sleep.

I used to love night fishing at the pin too, but unfortunately the blokes I went with were big drinkers so inevitably you'd be half blotto by midnight and you'd pass out in the cabin :-[

[mik01]

Simple off the shelf stuff like Zyrtec antihistamines work well, but if you want to get up at say 4am for a fish, take a half only, otherwise you won't wake up til 7am :P
I've been a shocking sleeper for years and tried a lot of prescriptions, but most of them are barbituate derivatives, so when you wake up you feel like herman munster for about an hour or 2, and thats bad for your job.

Also I have found that natural relaxants are OK, Zinc and magnesium supplements tend to relax muscles and assist with your natural immunity system. I have taken both for a few years now and have not suffered a bad flu.

Definitely exercise in the mornings works, it sets your system into a healthy rythym and by 10pm you are stuffed and happy to go to sleep.

I used to love night fishing at the pin too, but unfortunately the blokes I went with were big drinkers so inevitably you'd be half blotto by midnight and you'd pass out in the cabin :-[

I'll definitely try those - prefer not to take sleeping pills but the fallout of not being able to sleep the night before an early fishing start is the next arvo when I get home. I am so tired I can't last until the next night for sleep.

cheers,
Mick

[Didley]

Gecko.
Get your priorities right, mate, Start working a 4 hour day or give it away altogether, fishing is far to important to have work interfere.

[mad_pierre06]

Mad Pierre, I drink 2 cans of red bull during a session. Is there any evidence that they stuff your kidneys? Id like to know more, I thought the caffiene was minimal and the vitamins were good. I do find they make you wanna pee all nite while youre trying to sleep. I drink no more than 2 coffees on any given day.

Oldboot, they are good tips. I do find my body craves sugar hits the day after fishing. I thought this was normal, but I agree its borrowed energy. So low carb is they key?

cheers
Andrew

Andrew, i think it's more the long term effects of those who drink the three or four a day, every day. I worked woth a bloke who would burn the candle both ends, working a evening job as well, then drink four cans of Red Bull during the work day. He ended up on dialysis. I think your two just during that particular session, as long as you drink plenty water, wouldn't be too damaging.

I find it interesting regarding the low carb stuff, there's some good info in this thread. 'Specially with the way i'm finding things at the moment, i feel like a zombie most days even though i'm getting as much sleep as i used to when working days. It must be because the time when i sleep goes against the body's regulator.
Cheers mate. Good luck.

[FNQCairns]

I'll try to find out the name of that relaxant.
I'm no fan of sleeping pills (or any drugs) However , While I was down with my back injury & after 3 weeks of sleep deprivation ( no sleep at all) I asked my doctor for something! .... & I got the pills! It was a big help ... with no knock out effect ... Worked a treat!
Nagg
PS ..... I'm going to look for something from a Herbalist ( No ... not pot;D ) before I do my next big trip!

They are typical in hospitals for people who need a gentle push to sleep I understand, and look like little soft footballs with liquid inside, if your doctor plays blank when you ask him about them, he is bluffing you.

cheers fnq

[Dirtysanchez]

By the way, when I had my sleeping problems the doctor prescribed me 2 different types of pills, coincidentally they are the ones Heath Ledger was on.
DO NOT ever accept a script for Stillnox, it is bloody terrible stuff, I mean I 'experimented' as a young man, and I can tell you, Stillnox has worse side affects that "herbs". I was a zombie most mornings and it just did not feel like you had been sleeping, more like you'd come out of a coma.

I found the Zinc and magnesium per my comment above, far better, and upping the exercise helps at the end of the day..

Now if I could just go fishing I could give you some input on how it goes :(

[Mozza]

Ah me!

My gut is aching with laughter but LoneWolf your comments are without doubt the pick of them. Constant sleep deprivation - I really like that idea!!

Pinhead, 4-5 hours of sleep a night every night. If only, I wish!

My morning's are VERY slow so I fish in the envenings, quite often til around 11-1. Especially up here: NQLD heat and humidity hurts me more nowdays that it used to but, luckily the fish seem to feel likewise so we all agree to do it when the sun goes down.

Very accommodating of them, actually.

Late nights equal slower mornings equal later sleeps equal later nights etc, etc. Like you LW, my hours are 'flexible' so moving them around to suit fishing has been good except every now and then when the itch just has to be scratched often, I suddenly come to end of my wick. And oops, the late morning becomes an early afternoon, if get my ZZZZ .... sorry, drift.

Nigelr, I find myself contemplating your option - just need to rewire the sleeping pattern. I'm absolutely hopeless at getting to sleep early, especially if I'm fishing in the morning.

These things are sent to test us but, we must be STRONG or fail in the attempt!

8-)

Mozza

[warrior]

after working all week then fishing for about 24hrs in a weekend it certainily stuffs my sleep for about another week

[Mozza]

Just read the rest of the posts (I couldn't get off page 1 without a comment).

And yes, I usually take a little helper if I have an early start and want to get to sleep earlier and I guess sometimes when I get back late and the fishing's been a bit too action-packed. I found stilnox was great but weird things would happen 1-2 days later. Going to go on Zinc/Magnesium as I'd heard elsewhere that they're a good habit to get into.

Cheers
Mozza

[Mrs Ronnie H]

Hi all

No remedies to name ,,, perhaps a dunk in the fountain of youth. When we were all younger we could party all night, sleep half the day and party all night again, thats the week days and party the whole weekend.

As we've got older we seem to work all day and half the night, sleep a little and work some more. ITS AGE Catching up on you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ronnie

[Mozza]

Maybe it responsibilities catching up on you!!

Mozza

[Nico.d.R]

I dont reckomend V , they are addictive well for me they are , i was drinking 3-4 bottles a day to get threw work after fishing and late nights :o , I went to the doctor because my heart beat was going all over the shop it would beat fast than slow then fast and slow even get pauses some times , the doctor said it was caused from V and told me to stop drinking it , but i still have atleast 1 a day . Maybe i need to go to V . A meetings ;D . well i might go and lay on the couch before tonights fishing trip ;)

[Scott nthQld]

I don't have any real problems with the sleep pattern, I could not sleep a wink all night and go fishing all day, and still not get to sleep before 12 that night. But then again, I am 22 and late nights/Early morning are no stranger to me. Often I've gone out all night, gotten home just on sun up, hitched the boat and gone fishing all day, and get the best night's sleep after that. If I do happen to be real tired before an early morning fishing session, a sudafed (non drowsy of course) and a can of redbull gives me a good kickstart to the day that just keeps going as long as I drink plenty of water (which is no problem cos I usually find that I drink 2-3L during the trip), but I don't have to do that very often, usually only after I've had a big weekend and haven't had any sleep for the last 2-3 days. But if anything catches up with me here its the heat and humidity, it really takes it out of me, and at this time of year, I can't really just jump over the side for a dip because of the stingers (when I'm out of the creeks that is, I wouldn't dream of doing that i any of our local creeks).

[dazza]

They are typical in hospitals for people who need a gentle push to sleep I understand, and look like little soft footballs with liquid inside, if your doctor plays blank when you ask him about them, he is bluffing you.

cheers fnq

you are talking about temazepam, don't think you get the "footballs" anymore, people sucking out the liquid and injecting it::)::) nasty results, they probably crush the tablets nowdays:-/:-/

i personally would avoid sedatives and antihistamines- they knock you out but don't give proper sleep.

after 15 years of shiftwork, i found a kip in the arvo and a cup of coffe early in the night and around midnight kept me going

remember- people die in bed, soy you are better off fishing

cheers
dazza

[oldboot]

Improving fitness and controlling food intake are the keys to all this.

All the stimulants and sedatives have their side effects & I think we all agree are best avoided if possible.

I have always worked and played weird and irreguar hours.....A few years ago I was concerned that I was getting drousy in the afternoons and lacked energy at times.....I spoke to the quack & had all the various tests for diabeties and other stuff done...... nothing.

I was speaking to a mate who is at least 15 years older than me and fit & healty with lots of energy, he put me onto this control of food thing & it works.

The solution to the afternoon drousies....... eat a small lunch low in carbs and fat...you wont suffer the blood sugar rebound that causes the drousies.

Its all about controlling blood sugar.

there is a bloke called "Barry Sears" who wrote a series of books starting with "Enter the zone", he explains much of the concepts in his books....while I don't agree that all he says is practical.....I do agree that the most powerfull drug you can take is food.

You can very strongly influence your metabolism by controlling what & when you eat......we arent talking any thing weird.... just normal healthy food.... but the key is what & when.

Barry Sears comes down very hard on caffene and explains much of the mehanics of what & how it works.
His books are realy worth a read.... many of them are in your local libruary.

Caffene can realy do whacky things in large doses and there are large amounts in the so called "energy drinks".
Yep there are both long & short term problems with high dose caffene.

I know about people ending up on dyalisis.....thats what my wife does for a living.
While you would have to be consuming very heavily to get kidney failure, kidney stones are a very real posibility.
A mate of mine was a 2 litre a day coke man & he drank coffee as well...... he had kidney stones at 26......there are other tannins & resins in all cafenated drinks that can easily turn ito stones.

If you have high blood preasure or even mild heart problems stay right away from high dose caffene, it rases the blood preasure almost immediately which can remain high as a result fo quite some time. Greatly increased riskm of heart attack, stroke & related misfortune. Can also cause heart palpitations in even the young & healthy.

High doses of cafene can also cause a variety of sleep disturbences and agressive mood swings that can last several days.

Of course increased thirst and frequency of urination.

I can see why there is quite some concern about these drinks especilay being consumed by children who have a lower body mass & there for a higher dosage rate.

High dose caffene is a very high cost stimulant.

If you want to sleep, 10 to 15 minutes of vigorus exercise followed by a mug of hot chocolate made on low fat milk take a lot of beating.
Of course there is a special sort of exercise that works best;) ......have the milk first...... you'll need the energy;D

cheers

[kingtin]

I
Of course there is a special sort of exercise that works best;)

cheers

Well I don't sleep well at all so your statement may well fully illustrate the fact that my treadmill is broken................I must get her fixed somehow;)

kev

[the gecko]

I also did some reading up on Taurine, the ingredient in red bull, and other energy drinks. Apparently taurine is natrually present in healthy bodies as an amino acid. Its not usually a problem - even overdoses of it are removed natrually, but its an issue if you already have kidney problems. taurine trials on kidney patients caused massive problems, and the trials were abandoned as unsafe. Some countries require energy drinks to carry warning labels to kidney sufferers.

They seem ok to people who are normal and healthy tho. As does 32 mg of caffiene, IF you understand your caffiene levels. Ive always drunk 2 cups of coffee per day, but I also drink a lot of water, and carry it anywhere I go. Im heading towards 1 coffee per day now, and dropping energy drinks from my night fishing sessions.

I agree that fitness and diet are the most important issues. And of course, time on the water!!!! After a friend of mine died at 52 from the big C, I vowed to fish more often and enjoy life.

cheers
Andrew