Richmond fish kill pics

[reelemin1974]

Took some pics todat around the corner from me. Lots of dead fish.
I just posted a movie in the videos section too. :(

[theclick]

That big flattie makes me sad :( The dpi are monitoring the water, and are apparently getting dissolved oxygen levels of only 25% of the minimum amount required to sustain fish life. Hopefully they will do something about it

Thanks for the pics mate, truely sad

[stonecold]

geez the place stinks...its blo#dy rotten. I must say I was a little suprised at the lack of larger predatory fish floating around dead. There are thousands of smaller bream, whiting, mullet and flatties lining the banks. I was expecting to see some larger fish. The odd flattie over 3kg and possibly up to 6kg. But in my observations I havnt seen 1...heres hoping they survived!
I had a bit of a chuckle to myself today, (if that is possible when looking at such a disaster), as I watched an elderly lady prodding the dead fish off the rock wall in front of her house. The fish were floating up river and she had a rather satisfied look on her face as she cleared the stinking mess. I was chuckling as I thought whats going to happen when the tide changes....hehehe yep they're all gunna float right back.
Heard on the news tonght they've voted to close the river to all forms of fishing....indefinately at this stage.

[reelemin1974]

When does the closure take place? Good news I think!!

As to the big fish, I have a theory:

I have noticed heaps of flathead, bream, mullet dead. I have not seen one Jewie. I think it's because those other species are more adaptable to fresh water than jew, so when the fresh started coming down the jew headed out, whereas the others weren't as fussed. When the oxygen was depleted the fish that hung around died and the ones that got out of there are still safe.

There was also heps of big muddies there as well they weren't dead though they were dying.

[FNQCairns]

Heard on the news tonght they've voted to close the river to all forms of fishing....indefinately at this stage.

WHAT! Talk about loosing the plot, we are all in big trouble, there is certainly a case for a ban on netting in any tidal waterway but to stop a bloke/blokes/whoever from throwing a line in when it can NOT make any measurable difference to ANY outcome for the river is just crazy and out of touch in the extreme.

The only saving grace if it is geared toward the duration of the water quality problem, if it stays as a ban on rec fishing once the water clears it will be yet more corrupt behaviour as they could never produce the reasonable justification.
Fluffy, let the populations grow just don't cut it in ecology V recfishing, apart from at an urban legend level of understanding.

cheers fnq

[Lovey80]

Just need a few big boats going flat nacker up and down the river for a few days aerating the water should do the trick ;)

Cheers Chris

[reelemin1974]

Yes but I guess you weren't there when I spoke to 2 different guys within the space of 5 mins who told me how great the fishing was at the mouth. Both were there for the second time that day talking about how they had bagged out on good flatties (breeders I am sure). I am sure they will be back tommorow and the next day until the fish have 'moved on' to their freezers.

A LOT of flathead have been killed this week I don't think we need to take any breeders for the sake of the future. >:(

Thats my opinion and I will be affected by the ban.

[chrisallangler]

Thanks for the post and it's definatley a sad site especialley the big flatties, hopefully the Jewies are sweet.

Chris

[reelemin1974]

One of the 20 or 30 muddies I could see:(

[Cammy]

poor flattys, i love those fish:'( :'( :'(

cam

[baitwaster]

I wouldn't get too worried about it, it's a natural event that has most likely happened before, and will happen again. The river system would have overcome similar events in the past, and will have the capacity to do it again.

I personally don't think anything should be done, just leave it alone and it will right itself. We don't need to "fix" everything that happens in nature, nor is it always necessary for "someone to do something".

[Jim_Tait]

Baitwaster,

While (infrequent) fish kills are natural 'events' what is occurring in the Richmond every flood flow is far from 'natural' and there is plenty to 'fix' and someone i.e. us collectively should do something about it!! Dismissing our need or ability to do something about it is ill informed and not inthe long term interests of our fishery.

The causes are a combination of things:

(1) increased sediment and nutrient loads the National Land and Water Resources Audit 2002 found that the Richmond River Basin's phosphorus load is now 3X pre-settlement, nitrogen load 2.3 X pre-settlement and sediment load 32 X pre-settlement - hardly natural... and there is a lot that can be done to reduce this (below)

(2) Changed landcover - most of the lower catchment is cleared but the real issues in terms of affecting sediment and nutrient loads and other drivers of water quality is the loss of riparian (stream bank) vegetation and floodplain vegetation. Floodplains of teh lower Ricmond were once vegetated by native paperbark forests and sedge swamps - two types of vegetation that don't rot when inundated by floodwaters - now they are mostly vegetated by exotic improved pastures (that dont like going underwater - they rot and strip oxygen) - also these paperbark and sedge swamps used to slow down catchment run off allowing sediment and nutrient loads to settle on the floodplain protecting water quality inteh estuary but now they dont function like that due to clearing and hydrological changes like drainage (below)

(3) Hydrological changes - the rate of run off from the upper Richmond catchment now occurs much faster due to the removal of vegetation from the catchment - water that moves faster can carry more sediment and nutrient load (part of hat strips oxygen inteh estuary) - also when this run off gets to the lower catchment it doesn't get slowed down on floodplain wetlands because thay have largely been cleared and drained - this loss of detention function means that the water runs straight into the estuary with its load of oxygen consuming - sediment, nutrient and organic matter. Also a lot o fthese drains are cut through acid sulphate soils (ASS) in near coastal areas and these are also tide gated to keep tides out (so upstream areas can be turned from tidal to fresh and used for pasture - of questionable productivity margin) - when ASS dries out (due to exclusion of tides) they generate acid drain when wet again (i.e. in a big rainfall even) and also large loads of oxygen consuming sulphitic ooze - a major driver of Richmond river fish kills!

Therefore there is a lot that can be done about restoring 'nature's' ability to protect water quality in the Richmond estuary and minimise fish kill events

(1) catchment revegetation - especially riparian (stream bank) and floodplain areas

(2) reduce sediment and nutrient loads - by improved controls / managment of soil erosion in the catchment, and nutrient sources (on farm fertiliser use, sewage treatmennt plants, cattle access to waterways) and by putting the filters back into teh catchment - riparian, floodplain forests and detention areas (undrained floodplains)

(3) Change land use on floodplains - get rid of tide gates, fill in drains (especially in ASS areas), let tidal areas be tidal again (sea level rise is happening anyway so lets get the jump on it) revegetate lower floodplain areas back to paperbarks and sedge swamps - the pasture production of these areas is worth two parts of sweet FA compared to their ecosystem services value to estuary water quality and fishery production

(4) Dont say she's right, its natural, there is nothing we can do about it..etc etc .. get off our bums (all of us) and get our industries, community and pollies to provide the initiatives that are required to deliver the types of changes listed above on a river basin scale!!!

[stonecold]

Gday FNQ, the powers that be closed the river to all fishing for 6 months in 2001. Not sure how far upriver it went but the closure finished at the tip of each seawall.
Powers that be can be a nervous bunch and truth be told I dont think they know exactly what to do in this situation. I think they are working on the theory that they need to be seen to be doing "something". They have a pretty safe bet with this decision as they can be seen to be doing "something", (which is basically telling everyone to do "nothing" in the river) without adversly effecting the ecology or anybody in a powers that be decision making role having to put his nuts on the chopping block. Mind you the decision was supported by ecofishers.

Sorry baitwasher dont agree.

Fishkills on this scale are not a natural occurance...as a soil chemist I make my living as an agricultural consultant. I also work with the DPI on these issues every week. Its the she'll be right attitude of many that makes these issues worse. I've seen first hand the cane farmer who has dug 12km of drains in his 500ha property 4m wide and 3m deep. The entire length of which he has exposed acid sulfate soils...thats not natural. The fact that he joined his drain complex to the Richmond flood mitigation system didnt help either, (how f#*&ing selfish is that), hang on theres more, he has also installed 2 huge pumps, and I'm talking 600mm outlets to help pump any flood residues out of his cane paddock back into the drainage system. I shouldnt isolate this chap. Ive also seen Joe Blo at the back of Bungawalbyn swamp, Joe slashes and bales the reed beads twice a year, to sell the bales to the city gardeners for mulch (these reed beds are the ones that help "filter" the organic material from flood waters) ahh that doesnt matter it was only a piddly 120Ha. Ive also seen forestry companies cultivate 200ha only to have the top 100mm of soil lost in an erosion event in, that ended up in the local creek. Should I continue cause theres plenty more. One thing I find a little disgusting about this is, that if you talk to these chaps they say...Its my land and I'll do what I want or what I need to do to make it profitable....well guess what, the bit of paper might say you own it but what you do on it is everyones business!

We as people did not have that effect years ago....its not natural. One of the major issues here is that it takes a few weeks to dig a drain 12km long but years to discover the real impact on the ecology.

Ahh time to go I'm startting to ramble

[baitwaster]

I stand corrected, obviously I have not researched the subject and I mistakenly assumed that this was a natural occurrence from the excessive amount of run-off due to increased rain, and that this run-off would carry the same load of sediment regardless of the type of terrain it flows over. I was not aware that a great deal of the sediment carried is attributed to the use of surrounding land, and can be minimised.

Thank-you both for the information, perhaps I will look into things a bit more before opening my big mouth in future.

Shane.

[stonecold]

Dont panic Shane the only way we learn about these issues is to talk about them and share our experiences.

I may have heard wrong myself last night as I have just heard a conflicting report on the radio saying that fisheries are still undecided on the river closure, the local paper says the same. I'm sure I heard correctly last night...I'd only had 1 beer so I cant blame that. Maybe it was the kids screaming..ahh maybe I just heard wrong.

Cheers

[Cobia Kid]

Just need a few big boats going flat nacker up and down the river for a few days aerating the water should do the trick ;)

Cheers Chris

I know you are probably joking but would that do the trick or make any difference at all??:-/ :-/
A shAme to see those big flattie too

[FNQCairns]

The posts above by Jim and Stonecold are in absolute terms the reason for the fish kill and our associated country wide water quality problems fresh and salt.

It is also the reason I disrespect with a vengeance the green machine who usurp political will from solid environmental understandings that have withstood the test of time and instead watermellon on maniacle in the extreme over emotional self interested factors that will not, given the state of play, cannot make a difference outside of ideology.

Recfishing is an easy target as there is no mechanism to defend against fantacy in management of our resource.

Will be interesting to see how they treat recfisherman, with contempt or competency in their future ban time frame.

The line that divides 'fishing' is very wide, recfishing can be aligned with Buffalo and American Indians in its harvesting method, commercial fishing is more of a guns blazing approach toward many fish populations, recfisherman have 0 in common with commercial fishing, ideology is the only reason the departmental managers will not recognise this.

Anyway in short hope the department chooses not to bastardise good people just for the fun of it this time around and relaxes the recfishing retraint on individual freedom and movement in the Richmond the moment it is 'right' to do so.......

cheers fnq

[FNQCairns]

I know you are probably joking but would that do the trick or make any difference at all??:-/ :-/
A shAme to see those big flattie too


No the post was tongue in cheek as you know, the big problem with the Richmond is the lower order organisms have been wiped out, it's not about the fish (except in emotion) they will easily re-populate in their own good and easy timetime (their populations are well healthy).

Boat exhaust and residues in a waterway such as this would normally be handled and negated (in the true definiton of the word) without raising a ecological sweat, that cannot happen ATM without the true warriors of the environment being in healthy population and flux.

They rebound fast which is a good thing, far better to emote toward doing something to make a difference as per Jim and Stonecold above.

But yeah when bubbled, air does make a difference when the low order organisms are in the picture, natural tidal movement and with time and cleaner cleaner catchment flush's that are coming will do it all quite well, as useless as that all sounds.

cheers fnq

[RayDeR]

G'day!

I understand something of the problems along rivers with farming, etc.,and how they change the ecology.

I am not a scientist in any way but I am trying to get my head around this.
Logically , it would seem to me that the tons of fresh water would have some "cleansing" (dilution) effect on the bad stuff caused by land usage/mis-use.

I guess I am wondering if the fish are killed by inability to survive in fresh water or
by the badies carried by the fresh water or the man-caused badies in the water.

I am mindful that elsewhere on Ausfish there is reference to big fish kill caused by "water turnover" in impoundments. Different cause - same result: dead fish.

With due respect to members who work in riparian ecology, I wonder if you could be a little like i was some 40 years ago. I worked full time with "street kids" in Bondi. I began to despair for the youth of Australia. They were drunken, drugged, fornicating, foul mouthed, job less, homeless, violent and lawless. This was my world and my work. In a moment of clear retrospection, I came to realise that these kids were a very tiny minority. The great majority of aussie kids were just the opposite to what i was experiencing. I could tell great stories ofmy work but it was not what was happening in most of Australia.

I wonder if in the man-made bog we have ceased to see the cleansing effect of pure water? My shower water is dirty but I am clean.

Ray De R

[Haji-Baba]

Hi all, reelemin1974 A good argument for "in possesion limits" hey?

Jim Tait, spot on. I am not an agricultural scientist but have been around a while and studied most of the rivers / streams where I fish, both salt and fresh.

We collectively have done a great job of destroying our waterways with development and restructuring.

At least our tidal coastal rivers have a slight chance to recover but our inland fresh water streams have no chance. Land clearing, cultivation and chemicles have almost killed off our inland streams.

Fish stocking will stem the decline for a while but as we all know the natural enviroment must be replaced to some degree.

Development of any type along our flood plains must be minimised and the whole of society had better take a look at what we have done and continue to do.

A very large proportion of our problems relate to greed, bagging out, cane, cotton, rice, lack of care or consideration for our country.

A very big problem is livestock trampling down river banks and destroying vegetation. I fish regularly on a border river and one bank is protected for at least 100 meters along the stream for km's from cattle and the other not, the difference is amazing.

Anyone who could remember the Condamine River from the 40's
before irrigation, chemicals and and other factors will know where I am coming from.

Have Fun Haji-Baba

[stonecold]

G'day Ray,

If only that were the case.

Yes there will be a heap of vegetation at the river mouth and beyond but the real perpetrators on this event are still in the catchment and will be ready to do the same again next month should we get another flood of this magnitude.

I'll digress a little...from the DNR website

"Potential acid sulfate soils are naturally occurring soils containing iron sulfides (pyrite). They become actual acid sulfate soils when they are dried, usually because of human activity, and the pyrite is exposed to air. In air, pyrite is oxidised, resulting in production of sulfuric acid.
As a direct result of inappropriate drainage and excavation for urban development and agriculture along the coast of NSW, enough actual acid sulfate soil has been created to generate 50,000 tonnes of sulfuric acid every year. This causes up to $23 million dollars worth of damage to the state's fishing industry each year"

Basically the catchment area contains soils containing iron sulfides...these soils are historically swamps or low lying areas prone to flooding. Joe blo comes along...and it may not be a farmer, it may be a property developer. He sees an opportunity for development and drains the swamp. The water table drops and exposes the iron sulfides to oxygen. They then oxidise. Its not until the soil profile refills that the sulfuric acid becomes mobile.

Where acid sulfate soils (ASS) are exposed in the drain itself the acid water (black water) drains directly into the waterways. The hydrological movement of these blackwaters is not localised either. I found it difficult to believe this myself however after consultation with DPI I was briefed on macropores in the soil stratum. These macropores can be the diameter of your wrist. Water moves through the macropores under pressure. DPI are unsure as to how these form...I was sceptical but after digging several soil pits at a property in the bungawalbyn swamp I can tell you they exist. I'll see if I can track down my pics of the pits and check them out for clarity to show you what I mean. The water was spurting out of the macropores a good 300mm at a profile depth 600mm. Essentially and this is more relevant with sandy soils, the black water can travel quite a distance underground. If in its hydrologcal flow that blackwater should be intersected by joe bloes drain then essentially that drain is an escape point for blackwater produced in an area which could concevably be hundreds of hactares!

I guess what I am trying to say is the shower water is dirty for sure, however while ever the ASS are exposed so are we! same for siltation and organics.

[RayDeR]

G'day Stonecold!

I don't deny your science of "blackwater".

Where is the science of your blackwater mixed with massive amounts of rainwater? Can you apply scientific principles to that or are you suggesting an unproven theory?

Ray de R

[stonecold]

Ray its all here,

http://naturalresources.nsw.gov.au/soils/sulfate.shtml
http://www.data.greenspan.com.au/dlwchotspots/
http://www.nrw.qld.gov.au/land/ass/index.html
http://www.nrw.qld.gov.au/land/ass/impacts.html
http://www.environment.gov.au/coasts/cass/index.html
http://naturalresources.nsw.gov.au/soils/damaging.shtml - this ones pretty staight
http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/research/staff/peter-slavich - this guy is the guru if still in doubt

Cheers

[RayDeR]

G'day again!

Thanks forall that material. I see it just repeats the stuff I said I do not argue with.

Ok. I have read all that. Except for the assertion (unproven?) , that in 1995 after a prolonged drought there was a fish kill in the Pimpama River, I see no science that connects the great reasearch with what happens on land with what happens in an estuary causing fish kill.

In other words which salt water creatures simply "drowned" by being in a saltless environment caused by a massive fresh and which died because of the problems on the land being transferred into the river?

I think this is something for us to think about before making a connection which is yet unproven.

Maybe this current flood will give opportunity for further investigation of this connection between what happens on land and fish kill in a big flood.

Ray De R

[Roo]

I read in QFM after the last small fish kill, in an article by tony zahn which mentioned the "black water" issues in the richmond river. I can't remember the figures but the gist of it was that a small amount of black water will strip the oxygen from a massive amount of otherwise good water. given that there is a lot of Kms of riverbank populated with cane farms and pasture, resonalble to assume the water in the Richmond is pretty well F@*ked right now. the biggest drama is it will not all get to the sea....but keep moving up and back with each tide...trapping fish above from moving down and preventing those below from moving up. result last year was Massive schools of whiting being decimated by every tom, dick and harry @ woodburn. the fish were trapped up river from a slug of black water and they were running out of food. for a few weeks there were cricket scores of hungry whiting being landed on any form of bait you could conjure up.....bread and cheese dough was a good one I'm told. near the end the quality and condition of fish was getting quite poor, they were very hungry and had nothing left in the tank. One fella commented that the fish were heads and scales....no meat.

On the bright side....the tweed river has had quite a bit of work done on it to prevent/limit this kind of disaster occuring. lets hope it worked...and that "the powers that be" use it as a valuable lesson for the richmond.

Cheers Roo.

[Jim_Tait]

Ray,

its not unproven - does the water coming in to the top of the estuary look like 'rainwater' ? Its not chocolate brown for nothing - beyond mere appearances water quality sampling shows it to be full of oxygen consuming nutrients (most attached to soil particles), organic material and in drainages from acid sulphate soils - sulphuric acidic (low pH) water - none of this fell from the sky!!

Also, just about all of the fish (and crustaceans) referred to in the fish kill - flatties, bream, mullet, prawn, mud crabs etc - can cope with low salinity water (even pure fresh for the fish - there's a hatchery in Qld where they keep flathead in freshwater dams!) - you don't evolve and survive in estuaries otherwise as salinity swings are a natural feature of these environments.

The chemistry associated with oxygen depletion of estuarine waters due to these loads of sediment, nutrients and sulphuric acid are well established - so lets face up to what needs to be done to address it!

Regards and tight lines - Jim

[stonecold]

Just a last note. Normal o2 levels in water (both salt and fresh) are between 6-8ppm. On Monday DPI measured o2 levels in the Richmond at less than 1ppm.


and

there are not to many that would argue that our common garden variety eel handles fresh water no trouble at all....plenty of them belly up

[RayDeR]

Thanks!

You have come somewhere near answering the question I was asking about the connection between what is happening on the land and the flood water causing fish kill.

Is there any documentation on this like material you gave on land degredation?

Ray De R

[reelemin1974]

Can you spot the 5 muddies in this pic??

BTW tomorrow I am going to take a walk across the road to the Canal where 40 tonne of fish washed up today! If you know the canal in Ballina near the ferry, It's not that big.:(

[banshee]

Dont panic Shane the only way we learn about these issues is to talk about them and share our experiences.

I may have heard wrong myself last night as I have just heard a conflicting report on the radio saying that fisheries are still undecided on the river closure, the local paper says the same. I'm sure I heard correctly last night...I'd only had 1 beer so I cant blame that. Maybe it was the kids screaming..ahh maybe I just heard wrong.

Cheers

Prety sure last nights announcment came from the commercial fishing sector in a pre-empt of the obvious,I to could not see the estimated 6 month closure as being of any real value,my thoughts were of probably twice that to allow a full breeding cycle for all estuary species,it was however pointed out to me that the period of time (6 months?) will be for ocean fish to migrate into the system and hopefully take up residence.

[stonecold]

http://www.clw.csiro.au/research/biogeochemistry/
http://www.scu.edu.au/schools/esm/index.php

Ray do some searchs here, should find what you are looking for. I'm off for a few weeks so wont be of much further use

Cheers

[reelemin1974]

30-40 Tonne of fish washed up just in here, You can actually see my place in the pic, It's a wonder it doesn't stink more here:-/

[reelemin1974]

Ok OK, So I'm dumb and ill informed.....Who is the current MP for Ballina? Is it still Don Page? Sorry for my Stupidity!!

[stonecold]

Couldnt help myslef Rob

http://www.scu.edu.au/schools/esm/ccb/Final%20Report%20GOOO5.pdf

Also some good stuff here

http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/soe/97/ch3/16_4.htm


Now I'm on holidays8-)

[alleycat]

My grandfather lived on the macleay river for 84 years farming, the richmond would be much the same as macleay and he always said when there was a fish kill in the river it was from smart weed, ie the flood waters wash through the swampy areas where the smart weed is.

[Ben D]

Thanks!

You have come somewhere near answering the question I was asking about the connection between what is happening on the land and the flood water causing fish kill.

Is there any documentation on this like material you gave on land degredation?

Ray De R



Ray,

I think the connection is called gravity. The rain falls onto the land in the catchment. The water takes soil particles, vegetation etc. and all the other crap left in the catchment and with the help of gravity flows into the river. Without any of the natural riparian vegrtation left, this runoff process happens much faster, changing water chemistry in the river much faster and on a much much larger scale than it ever would have before european settlement. These fish kills are not natural events. Disasters sure, but not natural disasters - all man made.

[Chris Ryan]

I am a Lismore boy originally and remember these sorts of things but not to this extent.

I also spoke with my Uncle on Sunday who is on holidays at his onsite van in Lennox (has been there for 25 years) and lives in Lismore, grew up in Ballina, and he said he has not seen the kill like this ever and he can remember the huge floods in the 70s. My Uncle is in is late 60's so he has seen a bit in the local area.