Boat leaning to one side (and numerous other problems)

[seahorse whisperer]

Hello all

I recently purchase a new runabout (won't mention the brand name at the moment, although it is very tempting) with quite a few problems.
* Boat leans to port heavily when planing. I have been told this is quite normal, due to propellor torque. I did not experience this on my old boat and have tried adjusting the motor trim tab, boat loading etc. Nothing has worked.
* Difficult to put fuel into the in-floor tank, as it just rushes back out of the fuel filler. I assume the breather is blocked...
* The boat LEAKS!!! Three welds (I assume) under the transom were not completed properly and copious amounts of water are entering the boat. They are repairing this, but I am not sure that I want a repaired boat back!

My question is, are they telling me the truth about the prop torque making the boat lean. Surely if the prop is properly matched (they fitted it!), then this should not be a problem? The service and communication I am getting from this manufacturer is disgraceful and I believe they are covering up a major manufacturing problem. I am concerned that they will "bodgy" the repairs and send it back to me. This is a major company and I am very disappointed with their response so far, especially since I owned another of their hulls for quite a few years, without a problem.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Regards

Troy

[Noelm]

although it can be other reasons, prop torque will indeed cause your boat to lean and it is a pain and really gets to you, but after all other possible reasons are eliminated then trim tabs are your answer, other reasons are, motor not mounted correctly (not vertical or something) a boat manufacturing fault (hull has a twist or hook) weight distrubution will be unlikely unless it is extreme, anyway, best of luck in your trials and keep us posted.

[plaztix]

I would have thought that all hulls be tank tested for leaks before they are finished and put on the water. Could of been nasty. I suppose as long as the repairs/welds look fine than it should be OK. You will be able to see if its a dodgy repair cause it will look like bird shit. If the hull is painted i would ask to see the repair before they repaint it.

Prop torque should be easily overcome by shifting a few things inside the boat to overcome it. Sounds like something more major if after you have shifted everything you still cant sort it.

Are they looking into the other issues. Spilt fuel is the last thing you want in the bottom of your boat.

If they dont sort it ask to speak to the manager, if nothing, name and shame them.

[gofishin]

Hello all
...My question is, are they telling me the truth about the prop torque making the boat lean. ...Troy

Yes it can, and it does, however there are normally other factors involved. I assume that there are no static contributors, i.e. at rest the boat is level, and when underway the live load (people & gear) is distributed evenly?

The smaller the boat, the easier it is to ‘upset’ too. Live bait pickups, transducers too low, clears up/open one side etc can all make a boat lean. Prop selection can make the situation worse too, but only if there is a problem to start with.

The main factor is normally a slight difference in hull shape, side-to-side, normally in the aft half of the boat. Mostly it is not noticeable to the naked eye, but on occasion it is. Older tinnies on poorly adjusted trailers, or the wrong trailer, are good candidates for being ‘leaners’. As yours is new, it is probably due to a manufacturing issue assuming that it’s not what’s mentioned in the first two paragraphs.

Have a good look over the rear half of the bottom sheets. Compare each opposite pressing starting from the keel out. Compare the curvature of one to the other. If you notice the port sheet has more curvature down (know as ‘rocker’), and the stb sheet is flatter, or even curvature up (‘hogged’) then this is your problem.

At any rate, your dealer should be helping you diagnose the cause of the problem, and/or the manufacturer. If it does need rectification, don’t despair, there is not much to it and there will be no long-term detrimental effect. It’s just unfortunate that it wasn’t done properly in the first place.
Cheers

PS. To give you an idea of the effect of prop torque, one particular 6m tinny I was involved with some time ago was a leaner. A different prop helped only slightly, another made it worse. When the g/box was swapped to a CR unit the boat ran level. It was a bottom sheet problem that was only picked up by proper digitising of the hull

[mik01]

so all their boats lean heavily to port when under way - is that what they are saying?

well - if its 'normal' then they all must do it!! perhaps thats a question to ask them - also maybe an on water test with another boat out of the factory same specs as yours?

[disorderly]

Hello all

I recently purchase a new runabout (won't mention the brand name at the moment, although it is very tempting) with quite a few problems.

* The boat LEAKS!!! Three welds (I assume) under the transom were not completed properly

Regards

Troy

I dont think you really need to mention the brand,mate, it sounds like you are another unhappy Telwater customer.
The quality of the new stacer and quinny welds has been discussed quite a bit on this forum.
It seems that some are OK and some are not.It sounds like the boats that come out of that factory are a bit of a lucky dip.

I just hope they get it sorted and get you back on the water as soon as possible.
good luck.

[Leighton]

Keep at them mate, I thought prop torque could be overcome by adjusting the skeg thing on the bottom of the motor behind the prop?
Mine is slightly offset and the boat runs true.
On your leaking issue, I sent my new boat I think 4 times. Motor was not sealed, bungs were not sealed correctly and the pod was not sealed.
The dealer was not helpfull at all but with constant pestering on mybehalf I am now satisfied.
My advice is to stay on there case, they soon get sick of your phone calls. I dont mean to rant and rave but keep at them.
After all the squeaky wheel gets the oil.

[Noelm]

no, the trim tab will help with torque "steer" that is the steering pulling one way, it does not help with lean! that needs to be fixed or trim tabs fitted.

[seahorse whisperer]

Thanks to everyone for the replies. I have tried adjusting the trim tab on the motor. Apart from messing up the steering, it did not help with the lean. One reply got it right on the brand....... :(
What really annoyed me, was the fact the dealer was not "allowed" to give me their contact number, so that I could discuss it with their service manager. When you look for them under the brand name, there is no listing in the Yellow or White Pages. When you look under their company name, instead of the brand, you find them at Coomera. It was only after threatening that I was driving down to see them, that they would put me through to the service manager. He has told me they need to get the boat on the water to check where the leaks are coming from. I have already told them exactly where the water exited from. Given the amount of water that came out, they must be large gaps. When I suggested they dye check, he did no even know how that process worked. I am very unhappy, but short of walking down there and choking them, there is not much I can do. The dealer has been cooperative (they appear to be doing their best with Q......x), but I don't feel I am going to get a satisfactory result. I will check some the build items mentioned above and hope they get it right.

Thanks again

[revs57]

G'day SHW,

It takes the shine off a new purchase but yep, stay at em. Wags brought a brand new stacer early last year and had to keep at them to get attention, even then he only got part satisfaction. But stick at it, we're not talking about peanuts to buy a BMT outfit these days and manufacturers have got to lift their game! I don't know many other industries where purchasers commits multiple thousands of dollars for questionable product and the manufacturers seem to get away with it.

If the lean stays, a set of Bennets, lenco's or the new vovlo trim tabs will certainly help

All the best with it

Cheers

rhys

[Leighton]

Ahh Qrex, I thought as much. A word of warning before you send it down to them. Remember its a factory and plenty of people work there, there could be countless people in and out of your boat..catch my drift.
Also take note of the amount of fuel in your boat, note it with your dealer.
My boat used 85L of fuel while they tested it for leaks, funny thing is the engine hours only ticked over 10 minutes.
Like I said keep at them, it did sour the taste of a new boat but I am fully satisfied now

[seahorse whisperer]

Thanks for the suggestion.Given that they are saying it is too rough for them to test the boat, in theory it should not have used any fuel. Funny, but I did not think the swell got that high in the Coomera River......
The dealer just called, as they are trying to kick the manufacturer, but like me they are a little stuck. It would be easy for me to say that they should be riding them harder, but I know how hard it is to walk the line between being a customer and a re-seller.

[Dan5]

I bought a brand new tinrex in 1999 it also had holes in the weld's and leaked like a siv,good to see nothing has changed.

[seahorse whisperer]

Hi All

To let everyone know the result of my tug-of-war with the boat manufacturer
* The lean (which they have claimed is prop torque) was caused by a misaligned hull (whatever that means). They have "re-jigged" it, which worrys me, as the more you play with metal, the less strength it has.
* They have welded some areas on the transom where they feel the water "may" be coming from and are getting the painters to seal the rear. Sounds a bit dodgy, as surely the whole thing should be welded, not just sika-flexed....
* The fuel lines did not wor properly, as they crushed the breather tube when they put the floor in

I am really concerned that I may end up with a reduced life on the hull, due to the work that is being done to it. Can anyone please recommend independent person that can check the hull? I would prefer to pay someone to have it checked now, rather than have a hull which falls apart outside warranty.

Thanks

Troy

[Getout]

Make sure you get some documentation for the warranty work done. You may need it later to kick up a stink if there is a problem down the track.

[BR65]

make sure you check under the floor for swarf, broken steel drill bits, misplaced tools, all sorts of crap that will seize your bilge pump or cause hull corrosion.
Quintrex are renowned for not takeing 5 minutes of an apprentices time to give the hull a once over before the ply flooring goes down
dont give up on them mate, Ive had my battles with them a few years ago, I told them I wasnt going away, and I didnt, eventually got satisfaction
cheers
brian

[GAD]

But the point is that you shouldn't have to be on their case, and you should expect value for your money , and the boat you payed for should be fit to carry your family and friends, if your hull was't straight they should replace it I reckon.

And haven't the number of boat builders and brands gone up and the dealers just pick a new brand when one goes out in with a new brand. and yeah we don't do those anymore.
I bought a plate boat 18 months back, after a few calls and emails they just stopped responding and the dealer wont back me as they no longer carry that brand , just lucky the probs weren't as severe as yours.
Read these forums and you find this sort of story over and over again .
it is a shame that some builders are shonky , others have to many orders to fill, and the lets cut corners attitude exsists . Now if only there were a govt dept
that was able to say not good enough and make them go and fix the problems at their exspense, like every other industry in our wide brown country has to, that would shake their little rattle and upset their delusions.
just seems we banter around this subject every so often, wonder if any pollies read the forums .

Greg :-X

[finga]

People should consider the manufacturers side as well.
If they jumped to attention when every Tom, Dick and Harry that had a complaint they would never have time to build boats.
IMO a lot of complaints would be just belly aching and complaining for reasons like expectations that are, by far, over what could, should and is, expected of the hull, inappropriate use in inappropriate conditions, just plainly haven't got a clue or just whingers.
Now this doesn't mean a LOT of problems aren't in 'built' into new boats but the real story is sometimes hard to figure out and who's responsibility it is.

A prime example is the cracking of aluminum hulls. When-ever I'm in the water I can always hear this bang, bang, bang and look up over to the horizon and see a boat going full noise into chop and the hull is banging like the girl's dunny door at a Saturday night dance in the Valley.
How long can this 'impact' last before something gives way??
In an aluminum boat it wouldn't take long before cracks open up. In a glass boat it would take long before things start to fall off and unknown things start happening to the glass.
When the problems start showing up (which they will) is it the problem of the manufacturer or the operator??
In this case I place full blame on the operator.
He's placing undue stress on the boat.
I liken it to when I was at school and we played chicken...you know have 2 dumb ass blokes (yep, I was one :)) that take turns thumping each other in the arm until someone says chicken.
The poor boat can't say CHICKEN....BLOODY CHICKEN ALREADY FELLA

Now I'm not saying the problem in this thread is caused by the operator but when-ever there seems to be a problem with a new boat the fault lies with the boat not the operator.

If I ever brought a new boat (which I won't) I'd be taking the dealer for a long ride before handing over lots of cash.
I'd be getting my solicitor to do a contract. No way would I use a standard form that protects the dealer and nobody else.
If the dealer didn't like it...tough. There's always another dealer.
Any problem I saw I'd get them sorted before hand. If it's my fault they can sow me otherwise. If it's dealers problem they can sort it. If it manufacturers fault the dealer can deal with it (isn't that why they call them dealers??).
If I wasn't happy there's always another boat and another yard.

[seahorse whisperer]

Hi All

As a follow-up, have now got the boat back and taken it for a run. The lean is still there, but slightly less pronounced and only once I get the boat up on a decent plane. I tried adjusting the trim tab out on the water and it made no difference to the lean, but did make the steering worse, so I changed it back. If the trim tab makes no difference, then I would tend to think that the propellor torque issue is not relevant, as the trim tab is designed to counter-act that exact problem?
This then leaves either the hull, or the fitting of the motor. The manufacturer did advise me that there was an issue with the hull and they had "re-jigged" it. I have yet to be told what that actually meant.... Anyway, I still have a leaning hull (albeit not as bad).
At least the leak has gone..... Also, in response to the previous post, I display a lot of respect for the boat and the elements. This boat leaked at the TRANSOM from day one, not because it was driven hard into foul seas and cracked the base of the hull. I know that you weren't implying that was the cause, but thought it best to clear this up...

Regards

Troy

[1lastcast]

Hi mate what size is the boat ?

it sounds like you need a set of hydraulic trim tabs when fitted , you have one on each side of the boat with the controls mounted on your dash, you can adjust one up or down to get your boat sitting level , they are also quite usefull for getting your boat planning quicker when you lower both of them down then you can adjust them while driving to suit yourself .

Very usefull indeed .

However you shouldnt have to worry about this i would assume that if there was a continued problem with this type of boat they would have fixed it wich makes me think your boat has a manufacturing fault somewere

with the water leaks it seems that quallity control is a thing of the past !

my boat which i wont mention the brand either at least until it is fixed has many problems so your not alone my friend !!

i hope you get it sorted soon

MONOSTRETCHO !!

[Noelm]

I said this before, the trim tab does NOT help with the lean, it is ONLY for steering torque, it is all very nice to say fit trim tabs, and indeed they will fix the problem BUT if other Boats with the same hull and Motor do NOT lean, then you have a problm that needs to be fixed by the Manufacturer, there is no use just covering up a problem, it needs to be rectified! and if the Boat does need trim tabs to perform satisfactorily, then they should be fitted as standard equipment!!!!

[seahorse whisperer]

The boat is a 490 model, but is actually 5.4 mtrs, when you account for the extended transom. I agree that fitting motorised trim tabs should not be necessary, given that it is a common motor and hull combination.

[Noelm]

this is just my opinion, ANY Boat under 6 metres (approx) should NOT need trim tabs, if it does, then there is something wrong, there is reasons for having them on larger Boats but a small runabout with "normal" power, should not need them!

[seahorse whisperer]

Hi

As someone who was previously luke-warm about the service section at Springwood Marine, I can say that they have been nothing but helpful dealing with Quintrex. Dean (the new service manager) has been fantastic. I emailed them this morning, to let them know that I was still having a problem. It was not long after that I got a phone call from Dean, asking if they could collect the boat. I told him I could drop it down, but he sent a driver out to collect it, so they can look at the boat. As he was away during some of the saga with Quintrex, he did not have an opportunity to discuss this with them and now the service manager from Quintrex is away for three days.....
Anyway, I am very pleased with the follow-up from Springwood. Obviously, a new manager can make a big difference. I am pretty confident they are on my side and will sort this out.
It is a damn shame, because it is such a nice boat in all other respects...

[seahorse whisperer]

Hi all....

The boat is now back and has been out on the water a couple of times. The leaks are non-existent (fantastic). I am findind that when the boat is on the plane, with two people up front, it rides perfectly. It still seems to lean a little to the left, when there is weight in the rear, even if the weight is more to the opposite side. Any ideas? When I turn the wheel slightly to the right, it seems to level the boat, but that is only a solution if I don't ever want to travel in a straight line... Could this now be caused by prop torque?

Thanks again.

[FNQCairns]

Curious on a scale of 1 to 10 where were you before and where are you now and what would you conider acceptable or live-with-able.

At what speed do you consider the problem starts and ends (if it does).

What fix did they explain they made to get it this much better, look hard at the engine does the leg lean to any particular side ie engine slants or even off center and or/slant all when viewed from the rear with tape measure in hand even.

cheers fnq

[seahorse whisperer]

Hi. Most of the fix was done by Quintrex. Not sure what they did and I am probably best not knowing, as I am over the whole argument....... The motor seems to be pretty square. When it came back, there was still a reasonable lean, but the dealer adjusted the trim tab again and it seemed to settle most of the remaining lean problem. It still seems to lean a little when there is weight in the rear, after I get up to around 4000 RPM or more (about 35-40 clicks). It is a lot better than it was, so I am probably now being a little pedantic. The dealer took it out and said they had it running flat, but I don't think they had weight in the back.
I am considering fitting a hydrofoil, although I have been told this will not help. Having said that, the motor seems to be cavitating a lot more on simple turns, so it should assist that issue.

[sharkymark2]

Are they still fully made in Australia? Or are they coming from offshore? Have seen ads for them on some Chinese websites?

[mik01]

scares me off ever buying one of these boats brand new - or most new boats, given some of the dramas I've heard on this forum!

[Wear the fox hat]

The problem will be in the hull, not prop torque or any other excuse. Ask the dealer if there was one or two people in the boat when they had it running flat, as guaranteed there was only one sitting/standing on the starboard side at the time. Don't try a hydrofoil as this will not fix anything, it will only make the boat unstable at speed. Tell the dealer if Quintrex can't fix the hull, then they can put a set of hydraulic/electric trim tabs on at their cost. If they don't do this, get your money back as leaning to one side in rough waters will become a safety issue.
I would also be ripping up the floor & checking for damage to any underfloor flotation, as fuel will eat this away if any of the spillage went inside your hull, again a safety issue if it is damaged.

WTFH

[gar26lw]

man, id want a whole new rig if it was me

[seahorse whisperer]

Yes, this is a great advertisement for "try before you buy". Having done a lot of research since, I would probably have tried a competitor such as Savage before buying this model. I will take it out again a couple of times, record the precise rev range/speed and loading in the boat so I can document it, before taking it back to the dealer. They are happy enough to do a test together, so after I am sure of the exact nature of the problem, will be taking it back to the dealer. The only positive is that they seem to be at least taking the problem seriously.

[deek]

This country needs a "lemon" clause in their contracts when selling cars or boats, like they do in the USA

[nautilus]

My old man's boat in Tassie does this...sometimes. It is a custom 6.5m plate with twin 115's. It often seems to lean to starboard. On perfectly flat water, it does not always do it which is what got me wondering. It has counter rotating props, so that should not be the issue, however when I was buying new props for it from Solas, when I was describing the boat, and the problems, out of the blue he asked if it leans to starboard. He thought that new props might help (they did with the other problems but not with the lean). I did notice that the engines were not exactly parallel with each other. They don't have a tie rod to keep them straight and with hydraulic steering they can get a little off centre over time. Once I straightened them up, it seemed to help quite a bit. Your boat does not have twins does it? If so, you may want to check this aspect. Also, do most people have their twins linked in some way to prevent this? What about on cats when you can't link them. How do you get them parallel? Is it just eyeballing it? Cheers

[charleville]

Good to see that this matter is being resolved bit by bit. :)


One of the things that I noticed when I bought my Quintrex six years ago is that the marketing of the boats rivals that of new cars but the quality of the finish on the boats doesn't. :(

Firstly a disclaimer to that statement. I continue to love my Quintrex. I did have a design issue with the leading edge of its keel when I bought it but I took it back to Quintrex who fixed the problem very cheerfully and I remain very happy with everything associated with the boat, its dryness, it's build quality including and especially its welds, its design, the service that I get from Springwood Marine etc etc etc.

But when I first picked up the boat, there were bits of metal swarf inside left over from the installation of the canopy; one of the seats had faded embriodery on the logo (fixed immediately on complaint), the boat was handed over to me with an extensive handover/explanation procedure by the salesman but there was no manufacturer's manual in the boat, only the engine manual - an email to Quintrex solved that problem except that the Quintrex boat manual was a cheaply printed little tome that hardly matched the quality of the sales brochures.


....and that is my issue. These days, boats are marketed with all the glamour that cars are - flash brochures, video clips/TV adverts, bright lights at boat shows etc etc etc. Yet the final elements in the construction are not implemented in quality assured high volume producing places but in jobbing shops called dealerships where accessories, motors, canopies, windscreens etc are installed with what often appears to be hopeless attention to detail. This can only create disappointment in owners' minds as they were most likely to be expecting a quality finish comparable to motor cars and consistent with the marketing gloss.

We continually hear on Ausfish of badly installed windscreens, trailer accessories, motors too high or low, bits of metal swarf carelessly left in boats, and all too often leaky boats.

Perhaps the bigger manufacturers ought to be introducing end-to-end quality assurance schemes with training programs and checklists of quality delivery to be signed off by dealers principal who are rewarded or otherwise, perhaps by a manufacturer's rebate, on a complaint free customer transaction.

Several months ago, I bought a new Ford car from Bryan Byrt Ford at Mt Gravatt. For many months after that purchase, I was beseiged by the manufacturer, the salesman at the dealership and service personnel at the dealership enquiring as to my satisfaction with the vehicle and everything associated with it. This was not a premium car either - it was a bottom of the range LPG vehicle that I talked down the price on across two dealerships until there was nothing more in it. The follow-up after eight months has slowed but not ceased - after all there was the birthday card from the sales guy in November as well as the Christmas card plus the regular magazines sent to me by Ford. My buying experience at that dealership has been nothing short of fantastic.

Don't y'all wish that some of these boating dealerships hired a service manager from a car dealership sometimes?

[elegant_bass]

;) see if the planing strikes are same distance from keel on both sides as this will cause leaning to one side

[seahorse whisperer]

Hi. Springwood Marine have been really good during this whole process. They have collected the boat from my house once and are coming again on Saturday morning. I want to give it one last run on flat water to ensure that he remaining problem was not simply caused by weather conditions, wind etc. They did have someone sitting in the back when they took it out, so it is still possible that the problem on my last test was caused by the prevailing conditions. My gut feel is there is still a problem, but hey, I could be wrong. One final test will convince me either way, but at least I know the dealer is going to back me if the problem is still there.

[Malcolm W]

Hi Seahorse Whisperer, Reading this one with interest as my boat had a lean to the port side as well. Its a 5.6 plate ali with a 115 Yammie 2 stroke and as the revs increased the lean got worse. I tried fitting trim tabs and it slowed the boat 3-4 knots as the port tab needed to trimm right in. After many months and loading the starboard side up I contacted solas props as the yammie stainless cavitates badly. They suggested the motor was too low to compensate for a poor prop ( if the yammie prop got anywhere near the surface it would break loose ) . A 4 blade solas was fitted and the motor raised 3 notches ( the cav plate now planes on the surface instead of digging in ) Not only has this fixed the problem but the boat travels 4-5 knots faster at the same revs and at a considerable fuel saving. It may be worth having a look over the back to see if this is happening or simply just raise the motor and try. Hope this helps.

[borrie01]

mate also has it got duel or single batterys and where are they located
chears borrie

[seahorse whisperer]

Hi Borrie

Single battery. It is on the same side as the lean, but close to centre....

Troy

[blackmo]

Why don't you demand a new hull instead of sticking with one that had obvious and admitted faults? Surely there is a warranty being a new boat that you purchased.