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Bear001
06-01-2008, 03:09 PM
Anyone have any recommendations good or bad re: Minn Kota v's Jarvis Walker???

I have a 400 Hornet Trophy - anyone with same size boat - I would appreciate your input as to what size to get eg 55lb?? Is it worth getting the model to handle salt water when I only go 1 or 2 times a year??

TheSaint
06-01-2008, 03:40 PM
I would be looking at minimum of 54lb electric with my personal chioce being a 80lb cable steer in Minn Kota or Motorguide... If your dam fishing mainly a 54lb would do the job but get MK or MG the extra warrenty is worth it alone apart from getting a better unit IMO..

NAGG
06-01-2008, 04:08 PM
54/55lber would be ideal for a 4M Hornet ( run a 100-120amp deep cycle)

I'm still of the opinion that its too early to offer a fair comparison between a Kota & a Snake ( the majority in use would be less than 12months old) ....... This time next year, fair enough!

Nagg

Ally Jack
06-01-2008, 05:43 PM
80lb is overkill for a 4mtr hornet
I have a 55lb minn kota on 445 allycraft dory and it has heaps of power, and can easily hold it against the tides here in CQ. Plus factor in the high sides of the dory vs low sides of the hornet when contending with the wind.....

The autopilot feature of the minn kota is hard to pass up

I'm looking into the 80lb for the new boat, at 5.2mtr and nearly double the weight of the current boat it should be a good match

Awoonga
06-01-2008, 06:50 PM
Mine is a 4.45 Hornet Riptide 54lb 24 volt with autopilot The autopilot is just the best thing about Minnkota units

bdowdy
06-01-2008, 08:34 PM
go the 55lb minn kota ap there awesome , thats whats on my 400 hornet. cheeers bdowdy...brett

zaraspook
06-01-2008, 08:55 PM
i gotta give one to the 55 kota ap, got one on my 4.3 deep v boat and it holds it perfect.

NOjacks
07-01-2008, 05:17 PM
hey there ive got a 54lb water snake which i got on the ##### birthday sale $599 18 months ago i use it nearly everyweekend fishing hinze dam or coomera river i cant fault it have never had a problem. the water snake runs motorguide components and motor for half the price of the minn kota its not a bad buy

NOjacks

BR65
07-01-2008, 05:32 PM
Mines a 4 meter hornet with a 55lb riptide bow mount minn kota, perfect for that size boat, had one problem with the foot control and it was fixed under warranty no probs, fish both fresh and salt.
cheers
brian

Tropicaltrout
07-01-2008, 06:15 PM
just bought a 44lb water snake for my little baby I will let you know if she is a ripper or a dipper next year..... but as all the guys say 55lb for your hornet is plenty, my mate has a 4 mt hornet and with a full loaded boat ie live well full and camping gear it moves and holds in the breeze just fine and auto pilot is a blessing when working the corrodoors of sticks or river banks.

TT

nipsta
07-01-2008, 08:58 PM
just bought a 44lb water snake for my little baby I will let you know if she is a ripper or a dipper next year..... but as all the guys say 55lb for your hornet is plenty, my mate has a 4 mt hornet and with a full loaded boat ie live well full and camping gear it moves and holds in the breeze just fine and auto pilot is a blessing when working the corrodoors of sticks or river banks.

TT

i have a 44lb watersnake on mine and my boat is a 385 explorer and it goes well on it no problems at all plenty of power in windy condtions just remeber the big the motor the more power they suck i have a 105amp calcium sealed battery and it last all day the water snakes have a power flow function which helps conserve power i know motorguide and minn kota have the same sort of thing in there motors as well i also did heaps of research and feel for value for money i couldnt go past the watersnake which cost me $499 with foot control and its salt water as well

Bundy Bob
08-01-2008, 09:34 PM
I've got the 55lb minn kota on my 4mtr bass elite. Best investment I ever made. Can't go wrong. Auto pilot is essential.

BB

corby12
08-01-2008, 09:45 PM
minn kota for sure i have the 55, a friend had the water snake and they are a noisy motor and he had a few probs with it

flairj
08-01-2008, 10:31 PM
I don't give a crap what anybody says, having Auto Pilot on the minn kota is awesome. Sure, a watersnake will get you around the same and a cable steer might be more reliable than the MK foot pedals. But when you want to fish a shoreline with a crosswind or drift the same direction as the current with a crosswind just set the Auto Pilot to the angle you need and go. As far a cable steer goes while they may have a lot of advantages with speed of direction change...... I just can't stand like the "karate kid"all day balancing on one leg.

And 55 pound is plenty.

Josh

fishsmith
09-01-2008, 01:43 AM
Had a snake 55 on my 4.2 tinny for about a year know..Its had heaps of use, rips the boat through the water with ease and so far can't fault it....I considered the other brands but in the end..... picked up a snake and a Diawa Certate Custom 2500 reel for the same price..

birko
09-01-2008, 09:01 AM
Bear
Just put this in another post then came across yours
I had a problem with my 54lb water snake up at teemburra on the weekend. The problem being it would go but wouldnt stop. I pulled the foot control apart while I was up there and the internal micro switch for the main go pedal would stick on and not release and hence it was on all the time. Probably could have gone to dick smiths and bought another micro switch and replaced it but since I only bought it August last year it should be under warranty so I have taken it back to place of purchase yesterday and am waiting to hear if they are going to fix or replace. If you are going to buy a snake I would at least recommend you buy it from a local guy and not a major chain, that way if you do have any issues you get a bit more personalised attention to the issue as opposed the the standard line of we have to send it back to the manufacturer.
Apart from this incident it has gone well for me and is mounted on a 3.9m hornet trophy. I can really see how the auto pilot would a great thing and that will factor highly when I buy another electric one day
Cheers
Birko

Mike Delisser
09-01-2008, 04:13 PM
i have a 44lb watersnake on mine and my boat is a 385 explorer and it goes well on it no problems at all plenty of power in windy condtions just remeber the big the motor the more power they suck i have a 105amp calcium sealed battery and it last all day the water snakes have a power flow function which helps conserve power i know motorguide and minn kota have the same sort of thing in there motors as well i also did heaps of research and feel for value for money i couldnt go past the watersnake which cost me $499 with foot control and its salt water as well

Sorry but I can't agree, a larger motor uses less amps to get from A to B.
Sure both running at 100% the smaller motor will will use less amps over a set time but the bigger motor would've covered a hell of a lot more ground.
If you wish to troll or work along a bank casting lures at say 2kph the smaller motor will be running a lot harder and be using a lot more power from the bat to achieve the same result. Working harder it will also run a little hotter and that also uses more amps. Throw in an adverse wind or current and the difference in the amount of amps used is magnified again. In all brands of elec motor the larger sizes are also technically more economical to run.

In saying all that I'm sure you would be very pleased with a 55 or abouts and just get the biggest battery you can fit in your boat, 130 amphr is good and will go for a couple of days without running flat, running flat will f##k up your battery.
OH and the auto-pilot function is fantastic.
Starting to see quite a lot of Snakes with probs about 6 to 12 months out of warranty, some have taken over 2 months for parts. I would pay more for the Minn kota myself cause if I was away somewhere like Awoonga and I had a prob, I could get the part overnighted and and be fishing again later the next day.(It happened)
Salt or fresh? If you're only fishing the saltonce or twice a year I'd go with the freshwater model and use some Inox before and after each trip in the salt.
Cheers
Mike

NAGG
09-01-2008, 05:58 PM
Sorry but I can't agree, a larger motor uses less amps to get from A to B.
Sure both runSning at 100% the smaller motor will will use less amps over a set time but the bigger motor would've covered a hell of a lot more ground.
If you wish to troll or work along a bank casting lures at say 2kph the smaller motor will be running a lot harder and be using a lot more power from the bat to achieve the same result. Working harder it will also run a little hotter and that also uses more amps. Throw in an adverse wind or current and the difference in the amount of amps used is magnified again. In all brands of elec motor the larger sizes are also technically more economical to run.

In saying all that I'm sure you would be very pleased with a 55 or abouts and just get the biggest battery you can fit in your boat, 130 amphr is good and will go for a couple of days without running flat, running flat will f##k up your battery.
OH and the auto-pilot function is fantastic.
Starting to see quite a lot of Snakes with probs about 6 to 12 months out of warranty, some have taken over 2 months for parts. I would pay more for the Minn kota myself cause if I was away somewhere like Awoonga and I had a prob, I could get the part overnighted and and be fishing again later the next day.(It happened)
Salt or fresh? If you're only fishing the saltonce or twice a year I'd go with the freshwater model and use some Inox before and after each trip in the salt.
Cheers
Mike


Actually my 74lb Kota draws less power than a 54lber ...... 42amp/h Vs 50amp/h ( maximum draw)
Nagg

nipsta
09-01-2008, 06:45 PM
sound like you blokes have owned a watersnake the way yous talk about them so ill leave it up to yous to convince him what to buy as minnkota the only to have right well i hate to say it there all as good as each other if ya ask me if you asked each bloke im sure there is the bees knees of electric the boats the best there outboard uses the least amount of fuel. the bottom line is if watersnake are all you can afford the go that way if you can afford a minn kota go that way but i will say this take a freshwater into the salt and take it for warranty opps null inviod you think you have removed all the corrision off untill they pull it apart and see a slight bit of corrision in there and thenwarranty gone if there is a way for them to get out fixing it im sure they will

i did all the research under the sun on them before i bought mine and i belive i made the right decision for me i also belive if i tryied to keep up with all the pro i would be divorced and broke . i was also told you dont need the biggest electric out the i ahev a mate who has a 17foot boat with a 40lb minn kota on the front on a gator mount and he get along just as quick as my 13foot with the 44lb so he was the one that convinced me to go the way i didi and i tend to agree with him you can go as big as you want but if all your trying to achieve is to sneak around snag and weed edge then 44lb ish will do thats my thoughs on it anyway best of luck i hope you enjoy what ever you get.


just a little bit from me

nipsta
09-01-2008, 07:53 PM
Actually my 74lb Kota draws less power than a 54lber ...... 42amp/h Vs 50amp/h ( maximum draw)
Nagg


my watersnake does 3knotts top speed and uses 30amps and hour at full power uses less the slow you go but when im working in the stick chasing barra it just ticks over moving me round when needed and i got it to troll at 1.9knot into se wind at monduran and did really well so what would a bigger motor give you

reelemin1974
09-01-2008, 08:49 PM
I have a freshwater version and have used it 98% in salt, it is 3 years old now and still going. It is past it's used by date , and is about to be replaced, but I am suprised it lasted this long, all I have done is dunked it in hot water after each use and run it forwards and backwards for a minuite or so.

Now I know warranty and blah blah blah, but the fact is, it has lasted 3 years, only cost about $250 (transom mount) and even if it was going at 100% I would still be upgrading as new technology is hard to walk past.

Something to think about I guess. Minn Kota by the way.

One other thing, a few things have stuffed up on it but NOTHING to do with Salt water. The tightening screw to hold the shaft in place was only screwing into nylon and subsequently got stripped in about 2.3 mins. The teeth that hold the motor up or down have both broken off (plastic) so now a drill bit is used.Ha Ha

davez104
09-01-2008, 09:26 PM
Actually my 74lb Kota draws less power than a 54lber ...... 42amp/h Vs 50amp/h ( maximum draw)
Nagg


But isn't your 74lb a 24V and the 54 a 12V? If thats right your motor is acctually using a lot more power than the small motor. 1008 Watts for yours compared to 600 Watts for the 54.

Dave.

StevenM
11-01-2008, 07:45 AM
But isn't your 74lb a 24V and the 54 a 12V? If thats right your motor is acctually using a lot more power than the small motor. 1008 Watts for yours compared to 600 Watts for the 54.

Dave.


Correct , you beat me too that one.

NAGG
11-01-2008, 08:44 AM
But isn't your 74lb a 24V and the 54 a 12V? If thats right your motor is acctually using a lot more power than the small motor. 1008 Watts for yours compared to 600 Watts for the 54.

Dave.

I'm not talking power used ! ... I'm talking draw on the batteries or battery( & battery life)

So I can run for longer on 2x100amp batteries .... compared to a 54lber running 1 x 100amp

Nagg

davez104
11-01-2008, 09:54 AM
I'm not talking power used ! ... I'm talking draw on the batteries or battery( & battery life)

So I can run for longer on 2x100amp batteries .... compared to a 54lber running 1 x 100amp

Nagg

Battery drain and power used is the same thing. Not trying to pick an argument, but ya gotta compare apples with apples. I bet the smaller motor would still be chugging along, long after yours had died if he had the same two batteries you've got. It's sorta like saying my V8 Landcruiser has a 200 L tank and I get 1200 km out of a tank, but your Barina has a 30L tank and only gets 600km so I must get better economy. Doesn't quite work like that. As far as your 74lb electric goes, your "fuel tank" is twice as big as the 54lbers.

Dave.

DJ77
11-01-2008, 10:12 AM
I have a 54lb bow mount water snake on a 4m ally cat works great picked it up for $599 and a quick release bracket$165 no problems yet half the price of a MK
looks like good value to me just wish i got 1 sooner

plaztix
11-01-2008, 02:29 PM
I've got a 50lb Transom mount minn kota riptide on a 4.15 Sea Jay SP and it pushes it along nicely.

Personally i thought the peace of mind (and warranty) was worth it with Minn Kota. Would love a bow mount with AP but couldn't justify the dollars at the time.

two fold
11-01-2008, 03:07 PM
I think nagg has got his wires crossd a bit.
As dave says you have to compare same or similar and cant compare 12 volt and 24 volt.
For my two bobs in the minn kota is a better propersition and have been around longer
Purcho

angler1
11-01-2008, 03:49 PM
i've had my watersnake 54lb for 18 months and not a drama,i cant see why you would spend a crap load of money when the less expensive model does the job for half price.

Mike Delisser
11-01-2008, 06:17 PM
i've had my watersnake 54lb for 18 months and not a drama,i cant see why you would spend a crap load of money when the less expensive model does the job for half price.

Watersnakes only have a fraction of the market but I seem to be repairing them more than MK or MG.

loophole
11-01-2008, 06:23 PM
minnkota buy a quality brand

TonyM
11-01-2008, 08:19 PM
I don't think the watersnakes have a composite shaft like the Minnkota either?

I'm amazed at just how tough the shafts are on the minnkota. I accidentally hit a submerged snag at near flat out on my MK RT55ap - I was sure something had to give as I watched the shaft bend a full 90 degrees before the boat was pushed backwards as the shaft straightened up again. There wasn't even a scratch!

I noticed a pic Big Unit posted on Fitzys site today of a watersnake that had a snapped shaft so I'm almost certain I'm correct in assuming they're not as much suited to the breaker brothers! nah nah nah nana :-/

And I agree re the autopilot - I couldn't be without it!

Simmo2
11-01-2008, 08:28 PM
Watersnakes only have a fraction of the market but I seem to be repairing them more than MK or MG.

So where do you work?
What are the faults?
What are the commonplace faults?
Are these faults a manufacturing error?
Is Jarvis Marine coming to the party in the shape of warranty repairs?
If you are repairing so many of them, what would YOU do to fix the problems??

This is EXACTLY what everybody has been questioning, and yet we come up with the same analysis, that they (WS) havent been in the market place long enough to form a concensus.

NAGG
11-01-2008, 08:38 PM
I don't think the watersnakes have a composite shaft like the Minnkota either?

I'm amazed at just how tough the shafts are on the minnkota. I accidentally hit a submerged snag at near flat out on my MK RT55ap - I was sure something had to give as I watched the shaft bend a full 90 degrees before the boat was pushed backwards as the shaft straightened up again. There wasn't even a scratch!

I noticed a pic Big Unit posted on Fitzys site today of a watersnake that had a snapped shaft so I'm almost certain I'm correct in assuming they're not as much suited to the breaker brothers! nah nah nah nana :-/

And I agree re the autopilot - I couldn't be without it!


Cant fault the Kotas shaft ...... just like Tony , i've hit a couple of old oyster racks at 5-6 km/h .... with no ill effect ( except for the heart in mouth)
Nagg

Mike Delisser
11-01-2008, 11:33 PM
So where do you work?
What are the faults?
What are the commonplace faults?
Are these faults a manufacturing error?
Is Jarvis Marine coming to the party in the shape of warranty repairs?
If you are repairing so many of them, what would YOU do to fix the problems??

This is EXACTLY what everybody has been questioning, and yet we come up with the same analysis, that they (WS) havent been in the market place long enough to form a concensus.

....PM sent

craig gilvarry
12-01-2008, 09:18 AM
Hi
I had a 40PD freshwater on a 3.85 explorer and it was a perfect size. It is cheaper than the salt water model and I used it in the salt dozens of times with no corrosion problems.

Cloud_9
12-01-2008, 09:31 AM
the the prob with the snakes is the back bearing BLA has come across some that are out of warranty and NOT repareable due to bearing flog out.
18 months old.
my last 55lb ap bow mount was 3 years old 0 problems.
sold it with the last boat.
new boats has 55lb ap bow mount use it on 2 boats one for fresh water electric only fishing. and salt water on a 5.5m CC that weighs a 1000kg's it pulls it fine.
on the 24volt 12volt argument the 24 volt uses less power to do the same job cos it dosn't have to work as hard.
the 24volt are 80lb at full noise.
but if you have 2 motors side by side at the same speed the 24volt will do it easy. and will pull bigger weight.
if you can afford a MK buy one your paying for 2 years warranty and easy fixing in brisbane .
WSnakes 1 year warranty no garranty on repair time or parts availability.
you buy cheap you get cheap.
Cheers Cloud 9

Simmo2
12-01-2008, 07:12 PM
My thanks to M62 for the PM's.

The debate will continue, is the dollar differance worth it?
To me it is. The WS has been great so far, but only used occaisionally.
I suppose its like asking a chippy if he would buy a GMC battery drill....
You or I might, and it will work for ever...! ?

nipsta
13-01-2008, 06:41 PM
....PM sent


could you send me the info as well

two fold
14-01-2008, 02:42 PM
I reckn its worth the xtra $ to get the auto pilot minn kota but value for money the watersnake is a good item dont worry minn kota s have there fare share of problems
purcho

reidy
15-01-2008, 02:21 PM
Good day,
Minn kota or bust. Bust is the key point here.
Have had a minn kota for over ten years and its still going strong.Lets see how many jws are running after a decade of abuse.
Cheers
Reidy

BigChiefBarra
16-01-2008, 09:43 PM
Obviously plenty of opinion here. For & against. I've just bought a 44lb for my 3.99 Seajay and she's a beaut. Having used & MK previously it takes some time to adjust to the lack of Autopilot but for an Xtra $800 easily not missed. Old man has had his MK serviced 3 time over last 10yrs and each time in excess of $500 repair bill (3 x brand new WS). P:S. WS foot control is far better than the MK. Better suited to humid climate aposed to the MK from my understanding.

GO WS.;D ;D ;D

banshee
16-01-2008, 10:06 PM
Obviously plenty of opinion here. For & against. I've just bought a 44lb for my 3.99 Seajay and she's a beaut. Having used & MK previously it takes some time to adjust to the lack of Autopilot but for an Xtra $800 easily not missed. Old man has had his MK serviced 3 time over last 10yrs and each time in excess of $500 repair bill (3 x brand new WS). P:S. WS foot control is far better than the MK. Better suited to humid climate aposed to the MK from my understanding.

GO WS.;D ;D ;D

Yep I'm another who has owned both,a Riptide and a 'snake,BLA can shove there minnkota's where the sun don't shine.If you can't live with the lowley old 'snake then for god's sake do your self a favour and get a Motor Guide.

Bear001
17-01-2008, 04:34 PM
Hmmm - thanks for everyone's opinion...I think :-/

No really. Its been great to hear the feedback - good & bad for both.

BUT..I still havent decided. A friend kindly loaned me a MK 50lb tiller steer to try out and you know what....I caught more fish trolling with my 40HP (& dragging a bucket)!!!! Go figure???

I think it helped clarify that the 55lb would be better, the wind played a bit of havoc with us. Plus I dont think I'll spend the extra on Auto Pilot, because I dont tend to go in a straight line..I usually hug the shoreline of the dam which is all over the place in & out of little coves. I know it shouldnt come down to dollars - but I have to draw the line somewhere. Still havent decided on MK or Snake, but either way, it will be next summer now until I lash out.

Thanks again for the input - it saved me a lot of homework!!
CIndy;D

NAGG
17-01-2008, 05:00 PM
Hmmm - thanks for everyone's opinion...I think :-/

No really. Its been great to hear the feedback - good & bad for both.

BUT..I still havent decided. A friend kindly loaned me a MK 50lb tiller steer to try out and you know what....I caught more fish trolling with my 40HP (& dragging a bucket)!!!! Go figure???

I think it helped clarify that the 55lb would be better, the wind played a bit of havoc with us. Plus I dont think I'll spend the extra on Auto Pilot, because I dont tend to go in a straight line..I usually hug the shoreline of the dam which is all over the place in & out of little coves. I know it shouldnt come down to dollars - but I have to draw the line somewhere. Still havent decided on MK or Snake, but either way, it will be next summer now until I lash out.

Thanks again for the input - it saved me a lot of homework!!
CIndy;D

CIndy .... just remember the Autopilot is also used to hold position in wind or current ...... So when working a bank .... you can hold your position at your leisure
Nagg

banshee
17-01-2008, 05:06 PM
Hmmm - thanks for everyone's opinion...I think :-/

No really. Its been great to hear the feedback - good & bad for both.

BUT..I still havent decided. A friend kindly loaned me a MK 50lb tiller steer to try out and you know what....I caught more fish trolling with my 40HP (& dragging a bucket)!!!! Go figure???

I think it helped clarify that the 55lb would be better, the wind played a bit of havoc with us. Plus I dont think I'll spend the extra on Auto Pilot, because I dont tend to go in a straight line..I usually hug the shoreline of the dam which is all over the place in & out of little coves. I know it shouldnt come down to dollars - but I have to draw the line somewhere. Still havent decided on MK or Snake, but either way, it will be next summer now until I lash out.

Thanks again for the input - it saved me a lot of homework!!
CIndy;D

Any electric is going to come up short on expectations if mounted to the back of the boat,they work a lot more efficently if mounted to the nose,even tiller steers work better if a plate is welded to the nose and you drive from there.

Fishoboy11
18-02-2008, 09:13 PM
Well I bit the bullet and took advantage of the Kmart 20% of fishing accessories sale and bought myself a 54lb thrust transom mounting Snake. For $320, I just couldn't go past it. It will go on my 4.6 metre canoe which has a transom for mounting motors. It also has an outrigger on each side for stability. I recently also bought a 4hp petrol, which I tested out last week a couple of times and it went well.

The electric will therefore only get used where I can't go petrol, which means primarily fresh - which should reduce the risks a bit. I may sometimes use it in the salt also though - but less often since I have the petrol.

Can't wait to give her a go - I'm sure she will be fine for my purposes. Will be interested to see how fast she pushes the canoe and what sort of time I get out of my 75AH 12volt deep cycle. I have only had a quick look at the booklet and didn't see any references to current draw. Might be on the motor - but have packed her away again.

Fishoboy11
18-02-2008, 09:14 PM
Banshee - can you explain the theory behind greater efficiency if mounted at front - not that it is really an option with my setup. Thanks.

Mike Delisser
18-02-2008, 09:34 PM
When attached to the stern you are using extra power to bring the bow around when heading into or accross a wind or current and if there is any strength in it you will fighting to keep it there. When the electric is mounted on the bow you point it where you want to go and the boat follows. With zero wind and zero current (if that's ever possable) it makes no differance.
Cheers
Mike

Simmo2
18-02-2008, 09:34 PM
didn't see any references to current draw.

Does this help mate?

Fishoboy11
18-02-2008, 11:01 PM
Does indeed thanks Simmo. Also thanks M62 for the info - makes sense.

Didn't realise these motors pulled so many amps - though they are big suckers, so its not suprising I guess. I wonder if those figures are at top speed (ie at 5 speed on the one I have). Not an electrician or electronically minded, but drawing 48 amps - then my 75ah battery is not going to last very long. I guess I won't want to go too far away from the launching point :-/