epirb fine

[Kleyny]

I'm having an argument with a mate about epirbs and getting fined without one in open water.

So if i can quote a price for the fine he might start thinking my way.

thanks

neil

[disorderly]

Geez if the only way for him to see the merit of carrying an epirb is to avoid a fine then i reckon your mate has some strange priorities and a real lack of respect for his life and those of any one else he takes out.
Sorry I dont know how much the fine is and dont really care.
I carry 2 epirbs and would never head offshore without them.

Scott

[Kleyny]

Geez if the only way for him to see the merit of carrying an epirb is to avoid a fine then i reckon your mate has some strange priorities and a real lack of respect for his life and those of any one else he takes out.
Sorry I dont know how much the fine is and dont really care.
I carry 2 epirbs and would never head offshore without them.

Scott

Most of the agrument is why should i carry a epirb to go to the spitfire channel when i can be just as far away from land in the bay.



neil

[TonyM]

According to a quote on the link below it's $120 (should be more I reckon when you consider lives are at stake)

http://www.thepremier.qld.gov.au/community_consultation/1999/caboolture.shtm

more info at:
http://www.msq.qld.gov.au/Home/Safety/Epirbs/

Cheers
Tony

[mik01]

considering you can get an epirb at the moment for 50 or 60 bucks from a popular chandlery, why would anyone skimp on this important safety device? crazy really

[darkside]

Does your friend only wear a seatbelt because of the fine incurred for not wearing one? I don't know the monetry fine for not carrying an epirb, but i am aware of the consequences of being at sea and needing one.

[Sandman]

sorry to butt in on your post but can i ask how many of you have upgraded to the new epirb ? i believe 2009 the current will no longer work globaly, i am keen to upgrade as unlike your mate i wanna be found if i ever get into trouble. I see that the NT Gov recently subsidised the new epirbs for islanders due to the cost factor of the new ones.
mick

[megalodon]

The analogue service is meant to be turned off on 01-02-09 and that will just leave the digital service. Absolute stupid decision they should run both till about 2012 or so. Why turn off a service that still has the ability to save lives. Its basically forcing people to spend more money for a item they had already bought with the expectation they would get 5 or 6 years use out of it. Anyway in a years time the price of the new ones should drop like a rock and i think you should pick them up for around $250 to $300 rather than paying $500 for them now.

[artesian]

Some might argue that the sentence for non compliance is death....but that's perhaps a bit over the top in that location - might depend how long it takes the noahs to lock on :-)

[Kleyny]

Some might argue that the sentence for non compliance is death....but that's perhaps a bit over the top in that location - might depend how long it takes the noahs to lock on :-)

he has a similar view, this is why i argue with him when he asks me to tag along in my boat out to the spit fire. Not that I'm saying you would go out without an epirb.
You may not die but i think that the negitives outweigh the positives. No fish is worth getting into the poo.


neil

[Kleyny]

considering you can get an epirb at the moment for 50 or 60 bucks from a popular chandlery, why would anyone skimp on this important safety device? crazy really

Must be getting rid of them as stated earlier they will no good in a years time.
Not a bad price for a years worth of finding out if you really want to spend the bucks in 2009. if you are only a part time offshore fisho


sorry to butt in on your post but can i ask how many of you have upgraded to the new epirb ? i believe 2009 the current will no longer work globaly, i am keen to upgrade as unlike your mate i wanna be found if i ever get into trouble. I see that the NT Gov recently subsidised the new epirbs for islanders due to the cost factor of the new ones.
mick

lets hope QLD do the same but i highly dobt it.

How many have an old epirb and have to update.

neil

[FNQCairns]

What does he do for a living?? (that's rhetorical)

He really should bother with one, there are a lot of self serving regulation from authority in Australia but having one aboard if he ever carries mates or family should be a no brainer.

I feel better having one when I am alone in my boat offshore but not enough to justify the price, that I can only justify if I have someone else along for the trip.

cheers fnq

[Mister]

The analogue service is meant to be turned off on 01-02-09 and that will just leave the digital service. Absolute stupid decision they should run both till about 2012 or so. Why turn off a service that still has the ability to save lives. Its basically forcing people to spend more money for a item they had already bought with the expectation they would get 5 or 6 years use out of it. Anyway in a years time the price of the new ones should drop like a rock and i think you should pick them up for around $250 to $300 rather than paying $500 for them now.

Are you really aware of what all this change is about?

[mik01]

Are you really aware of what all this change is about?

would I be correct in saying that the new system will allow rescuers to lock on to me within a few feet rather than a wider distance? using more satellites or something?

[Mister]

would I be correct in saying that the new system will allow rescuers to lock on to me within a few feet rather than a wider distance? using more satellites or something?

A few feet? No. But at least they will know you are really in trouble within a few minutes.

[SgBFish]

The 121.5/243 Mhz beacons are accurate to within 11NM (Marine Radio Operators Handbook, p. 56). They are pretty much useless for finding anyone. But they do alert that you in Distress. Hence a search can be started.

[FNQCairns]

Also the 243meg is used as a homing beacon so they were not that bad when all is said and done at locating the people, it's not as if the search plane etc once in the general area couldn't more or less head straight to a very narrowed down final search area via the beacon side of the unit.
Think personally the major drawcard for the authoriies is the ability to identify the units owners not that anyone who needed to set one one off could care less about that.

Actually I suspect the official procedure now will be to waste valuable time chasing up the owners before authorising the scramble????????I dunno.

cheers fnq

[mik01]

so whats the benefit of the new digital system then?

[bugman]

I got a new one Mick with the new boat. Went the personal digital m410 (hard to find) so we can take it bushwalking and 4wding as well.

Brett

[mik01]

quote - http://www.exploroz.com/OntheRoad/Communications/Guide_to_Comms.aspx

'The main reason that the 121.5 MHz model will no longer be used is that statistics report that it initiated 97% false alarms, which obviously wastes the valuable time and resources of rescue organisations and volunteers who must track every alert to its source. On the other hand, the digital 406 MHz model allows false alarms to be resolved with a radio or phone call. The 406 signal may be received within seconds by Geostationary satellites. The extra information provided by a 406 will in most cases help authorities locate you faster. Normally accurate to 5 km, although some 406 beacons use a Global Positioning System (GPS) and have an accuracy of 120 metres. An accurate location can be determined with the pass of 1 satellite 95% of the time. '

answered my own question...

[FNQCairns]

I got a new one Mick with the new boat. Went the personal digital m410 (hard to find) so we can take it bushwalking and 4wding as well.

Brett

Yeah I tried to find one of those around here when I went digital and couldn't, in the end the only difference is size and weight all of the units can be used on land.

cheers fnq

[disorderly]

Actually I suspect the official procedure now will be to waste valuable time chasing up the owners before authorising the scramble????????I dunno.

cheers fnq

I dont know about that,scott.
I recently bought a 406MHz beacon.
Part of the reason for doing this(apart from the fact that we all will have to in a years time anyway)was that I read that it takes on average 1.5 hours for a search to commence using the old beacons whereas with the new system a search may be initiated as soon as a phone call to my missus verifies that, yes, I am out fishing.(assuming that she really wants me back)
Upon registration I had to fill in a form that asked for ,I think, it was 3 phone numbers to call.
Now I'm not sure what happens if all the numbers are busy or not answering....hmmm, I wonder how long they really do stuff around before scrambling.
Also the fact that the 406 is accurate to within 5km as opposed to 20km is certainly appealing.

[Mister]

Most of the agrument is why should i carry a epirb to go to the spitfire channel when i can be just as far away from land in the bay.

neil

Their should be no argument. If you are in defined open water then you are required to carry an Epirb. What is the problem?

[Mister]

Yeah I tried to find one of those around here when I went digital and couldn't, in the end the only difference is size and weight all of the units can be used on land.

cheers fnq

Why would anybody want a personal epirb that does not work while floating in the water? As a sole epirb option on a boat are these personal types legal?

[Sandman]

Old Epirbs i have a handfull laying around some still work but are out of date or so i am told ?
Bret ,
I looked at one of those a while ago shoul have got it but bought a new rod and reel instead :) Good idea taking it in the car at least its getting used.
By the way mate have a safe new year am heading up to fraser ( not really a good time as it seems :( )
Mick

[FNQCairns]

Why would anybody want a personal epirb that does not work while floating in the water? As a sole epirb option on a boat are these personal types legal?

Good point! I from memory understood it does float but cannot be sure now??

cheers fnq

[Mister]

Good point! I from memory understood it does float but cannot be sure now??

cheers fnq

You should read the bold print on page 2 of your manual. Lower right hand side.

[Mister]

Old Epirbs i have a handfull laying around some still work but are out of date or so i am told ?
Bret ,
I looked at one of those a while ago shoul have got it but bought a new rod and reel instead :) Good idea taking it in the car at least its getting used.
By the way mate have a safe new year am heading up to fraser ( not really a good time as it seems :( )
Mick

How do you know they work? How is carrying an out of date epirb in a car a claim for it being used or should that be abused?

[FNQCairns]

I dont know about that,scott.
I recently bought a 406MHz beacon.
Part of the reason for doing this(apart from the fact that we all will have to in a years time anyway)was that I read that it takes on average 1.5 hours for a search to commence using the old beacons whereas with the new system a search may be initiated as soon as a phone call to my missus verifies that, yes, I am out fishing.(assuming that she really wants me back)
Upon registration I had to fill in a form that asked for ,I think, it was 3 phone numbers to call.
Now I'm not sure what happens if all the numbers are busy or not answering....hmmm, I wonder how long they really do stuff around before scrambling.
Also the fact that the 406 is accurate to within 5km as opposed to 20km is certainly appealing.


Yeah Scott it simply must be a better system all said and done, just as long (as you say) it doesn't give them an out to delay the search if the particulars do not line up correctly. I know mine are no longer correct and I need to change some of them, got to register the car with it also which was a nice move by them even if it smelt like an afterthought.

cheers Fnq

[FNQCairns]

You should read the bold print on page 2 of your manual. Lower right hand side.


Don't think I have that manual? I bought the MT400.

cheers fnq

[Mister]

I got a new one Mick with the new boat. Went the personal digital m410 (hard to find) so we can take it bushwalking and 4wding as well.

Brett

Sorry wrong quote, wrong person but have the right quote now. Doesn't work while floating in water so witout the right epirb this one is not the right one.

[disorderly]

just as long (as you say) it doesn't give them an out to delay the search if the particulars do not line up correctly.

cheers Fnq

Unfortunately I'm as in the dark as you on this ,mate.
If someone could shed some light on what the protocol that is followed if the designated phone numbers do not respond are,then I would love to know.

[Mister]

Unfortunately I'm as in the dark as you on this ,mate.
If someone could shed some light on what the protocol that is followed if the designated phone numbers do not respond are,then I would love to know.

Standing by and generally in the air before a verified position becomes available.

[Sandman]

How do you know they work? How is carrying an out of date epirb in a car a claim for it being used or should that be abused?

Minister, perhaps i should explain? there is a tester on the epirb this is how i know beyond activating the unit i have to assume it works.

In regards to using them while bush walking or having the unit in the car, i was refering to carrying one as a precaution not to abuse its use!

Anyway all said and done i will be upgrading.

Happy new year all

mick

[Mister]

Minister, perhaps i should explain? there is a tester on the epirb this is how i know beyond activating the unit i have to assume it works.

In regards to using them while bush walking or having the unit in the car, i was refering to carrying one as a precaution not to abuse its use!

Anyway all said and done i will be upgrading.

Happy new year all

mick

So you are carrying an OUT OF DATE epirb as a precaution and using the built in tester to check this OUT OF DATE Epirb. Are you putting too much faith into an OUT OF DATE Epirb?

Yes and happy new year and may all your Epirbs be (in service) 406's.

[Sandman]

So you are carrying an OUT OF DATE epirb as a precaution and using the built in tester to check this OUT OF DATE Epirb. Are you putting too much faith into an OUT OF DATE Epirb?

Yes and happy new year and may all your Epirbs be (in service) 406's.

Actually Mnister i have a new epirb and if you read my original reply i said i have a handfull of old ones that still work but are out of date! My Q was in relation to changing over!! I am sure you just misunderstood Brets thread swell as mine.

Yep i will have a good NY as well a safe one pitty about the wind.

Mick

[subzero]

The advantages of a 406 EPIRB are worldwide coverage, position location accuracy, a reliable transmitted signal, an encoded message that identifies the distressed vessel, and a faster response time.

The frequency stability of a 406 MHz EPIRB, which directly affects position accuracy, is about 10 times greater than a homing-type 121.5 MHz EPIRB. Satellites can detect the 121.5 signal, but the location information they transmit is not as accurate, and there is no encoding information to identify your vessel.

The location of a transmitting 406 beacon can be determined within approximately three miles by the first satellite pass, and to within one mile after three satellite passes. For a homing EPIRB, position accuracy is only 12 miles. It's the difference between a 144 sq. mile search area vs. as little as one square mile.

406 EPIRBs also have a much greater power output of 5 watts. Noise interference is less, so the 406 can be more reliably detected over greater distances than most homing 121.5 EPIRBs.

The phase-out of 121s was endorsed by the International Maritime Organization and the International Civil Aviation Organization, to which Australia belongs along with 179 other nations. The two groups set international standards for maritime and aviation safety.

EPIRB registration
It is crucial that EPIRBs be registered in the registration database, which will be accessible to search and rescue authorities at all times.
You can only register a 406 beacon that is coded for your own country. Buying one from overseas or buying second hand from someone who purchased the beacon overseas owner is not advisable.
The 406 transmits a 7 digit number code. (Unique Identifier). That number identifies the country where the beacon was bought and registered. Upon receipt of a report that a transmission with that number code has occurred, the relevant authority in the country where the 406 is registered checks the database and phones the registered owner. This eliminates many false alerts. It relies on the database being kept up to date by the 406 owner.
The 406 beacon code is transmitted immediately upon beacon activation. Satellites will store information received from a 406 beacon and continue to forward this information to receiving stations.

In future the existing Cospas-Sarsat system will expand to include more satellites of different types in the network. Enhancements are only planned in the global satellite coverage network for 406 MHz beacons

The 121.5 Cospas - Sarsat system established in 1982 uses Low Earth Orbit satellites that can receive the low power 121.5 signals and relay these to ground receiving stations called LUTs.
The satellites will not store analogue information sent from a 121.5 beacon therefore both the emergency beacon and the LUT must be visible to the satellite simultaneously before a fix can be calculated by the LUT. This limitation translates into reduced global coverage and potential for longer wait times. The LUTs function is to calculate a position of the beacon and to provide this to global Mission Control Centres who can then engage appropriate Search and Rescue Co-ordination Centre(s). Two satellite passes are necessary to establish a position. A 121.5 Cospas - Sarsat LEOSAR satellite should pass overhead at least every 100 minutes.
The 121.5 MHz transmitted signal can only be received by a LUT when both the receiving LUT and the beacon are in view of the satellite simultaneously thus limiting the area of useful coverage.

Continued aircraft monitoring of 121.5 MHz beacons past 2009 will be limited to local over flying aircraft. Note that 406 beacons also transmit a very weak 121.5 signal to assist homing aircraft.

Personal Locator Beacons are a smaller version of the EPIRB which can be carried with you. They work on the same frequency as EPIRBs. They have half the battery life of a normal EPIRB, are not required to float, require manual activation and do not have the strobe function of many EPIRBs.

Although performing the same function, a PLB WOULD NOT MEET YOUR LEGAL OBLIGATION when having to carry an EPIRB. An EPIRB is a different device to a PLB if that makes sense. A Car and a Motorbike perform the same function, to get from point A to B. The instruments themselves are diffrent. All legislation in the Marine environment talks of EPIRBS. NOT PLB!!!
Clear as mud???

Cheers Lloyd

[artesian]

he has a similar view, this is why i argue with him when he asks me to tag along in my boat out to the spit fire. Not that I'm saying you would go out without an epirb.
You may not die but i think that the negitives outweigh the positives. No fish is worth getting into the poo.


neil

G'day Neil, I went halves with a mate in a registered 406 to use on his boat, and maybe my 4x4 if we ever go anywhere super remote (hope the marine ones work on land), and hope fervently to never have to use it.

I think we are on the same page - also, I don't want to cop a fine, and have to buy an e-pirb

[outsiderskip]

make sure its not out of date
now they are cheaper to buy than get the stamped

pete

[Marlin_Mike]

at 50 bucks for the old style, why not get one, a year and a bit for 50 bucks..................... no excuse not to get them at that price


Mike

[Kleyny]

tried a few chandleries on the net for the old ones they all seem to not stock them anymore.
unless i'm looking at the wrong ones

neil

[mik01]

tried a few chandleries on the net for the old ones they all seem to not stock them anymore.
unless i'm looking at the wrong ones

neil

try calling your nearest bias - they may have one or 2 left on the shelf at that low price.
does look like they are not stocking them anymore

[Marlin_Mike]

i believe leisure marine at capalaba or Mr T;s Tinny's both have some. give both a ring.

Mike

[megalodon]

Whitworths is out Bias is out and BCF has some at $159 i believe it was. couple on e-bay at $89 reading it they are the last and one at $120

[litenup]

Leisure is out of stock and there won't be any more, and GME has no more stock. Bight the bullet, get a 406. Cheers Pete.

[bugman]

Sorry wrong quote, wrong person but have the right quote now. Doesn't work while floating in water so witout the right epirb this one is not the right one.

Gday Mister - thanks for your input.

Don't have the brochure in front of me at the moment so just went and had a look at the GME website:
http://www.gme.net.au/epirb/mt410.php


Fitted with NON-HAZMAT long life batteries
GPS option available (MT410G, Accusat Pocket Pro+)
7 year battery life
7 year warranty
Typical accuracy
MT410G: <45m
MT410: <5km
High visibility strobe light
Unique patented technology- no warm up period
Featherweight, compact and robust construction
Digital 406 MHz, 5 Watt transmission plus 121.5 MHz homing signal
COSPAS-SARSAT worldwide operation
National & International approvals
Sealed waterproof design (exceeds IP67)
Retention strap and fully buoyant design reduces risk of loss
Complete with protective carry pouch


Operating
-20°C to +55 °C
Storage
-30°C to +70°C
Weight
MT410: 235g
MT410G: 250g
Compass Safe Distance
0.1 m (for minimum deflection)
Dimensions
135 mm (H) x 71 mm (W) x 38 mm (D)
Buoyant
Will float in fresh/salt water (RTMCM Cat1)
Waterproof
Submersion to 1m
Materials
High visibility yellow chassis with translucent cap. UV stabilised high impact plastic chassis with energy absorbtion overmouled bumpers

Seems to have strobe light, is waterproof and floats?

Also didn't say it was the only Epirb in the boat;)

Brett

[bennyboy]

The new Digital EPIRBS have a unique signal, you register them, if you set it off they can locate you quicker, know who it is setting it off, have home phone contacts to they can try and determine if a false alarm or find out how many people on board. The should have bought the digital EPIRBS in earler