Can a falcon tow 2 tonne boat up a ramp?

[freddofrog]

Hi all

We now have a ford falcon that has a towing capacity of 2300kg. This is only just more than my 2150kg 5.2m KC.

While it is technically within it’s towing limits, will the car able to tow the boat up the ramp? The ramps I’m thinking about are well maintained ones, obviously wet but not covered in beach sand and of varying angles.

I obviously don’t want the car sliding backwards into the ocean :o or spend the $1500 required to find out it ain’t going to work.:o

I have spoken to ford and they say yes it can but they are in the business of selling you stuff and I’m not convinced they know what they are talking about ::)

Ta
ff
Hohoho, have a merry christmas :) :) :) :) :)

[finga]

There's one way to find out.
Just have a video camera handy though. You might win 1st prize on Funniest Video's instead.

[Guido]

My concern would be wheel spin and as you mentioned, possibly sliding back. Technically it can tow the boat, but up a ramp or backing down is another story. Manual or Auto can make a difference also.

I've watched a landcruiser fully locked in 4WD heading towards the drink. It was reversing a 680 Haines but these things are 'rated' to over 3t. Not a situation I would like to find myself in.

Go for a drive around towing the KC. Find an incline and have a go at a hill start. See how it handles.

Guido

[troy]

I do not know about the ramps you use but on our ramps up here i would not be trying it.
If it is Auto and a big tide you might.
Also think about putting the boat in as i have seen quite few put more than the boat in.
Troy

[Noelm]

been through this a dozen times before, just because it is Legal, does not make it right (or safe) I have towed the same Boat with a Rodeo 2 wheel drive Auto, and it did tow it kind of OK, and got it off the ramp at half to full tide, BUT if something happens while you are happily cruising along and you need to stop real quick (for whatever reason) with a lightweight car, it just isn't going to happen! you will get aquainted with the rear of the car in front, or the side of the road real quick! I know now a thousand (almost) People will jump up and tell us how they tow their 23' Sharkcat with a Mini or something, but it is just a simple fact of life, for safety and reliability you will need a "proper" 4X4 for long term towing (Landcruiser or Patrol) it is just like People with a Landrover Discovery that has a tow limit of 3.5 tonnes, sure it will do it, and be Legal, but you would never catch me doing it for too long, seen it once, and that was enough for me!

[Noelm]

OH and I do not want to start a war with all the Disco owners out there, if it is your thing, then so be it!

[Wheelchairguy]

i agree fing, make sure you have a video camera!

[FNQCairns]

Will the rear wheels always be on the dry cement? it should do ok on any good dry ramp, wouldn't like my chances on one with a bit of wash even from a passing boat.

cheers fnq

[rayken1938]

I tow a 6m hydrofield behind a 2wd hilux, The boat and trailer weighs around 1000kg and the trailer has override disc brakes so the brakes do not work when reversing. I have to be carefull if the ramp is greasy ofr covered in loose gravel as the brakes on the car lock up and you just keep sliding backwards.
It is frightening and not much you can do to stop it.
I would recommend electric brakes at least.
I never seem to have problems recovering the boat its is just launching.
Cheers
Ray

[Shanoss]

been through this a dozen times before, just because it is Legal, does not make it right (or safe) I have towed the same Boat with a Rodeo 2 wheel drive Auto, and it did tow it kind of OK, and got it off the ramp at half to full tide, BUT if something happens while you are happily cruising along and you need to stop real quick (for whatever reason) with a lightweight car, it just isn't going to happen! you will get aquainted with the rear of the car in front, or the side of the road real quick! I know now a thousand (almost) People will jump up and tell us how they tow their 23' Sharkcat with a Mini or something, but it is just a simple fact of life, for safety and reliability you will need a "proper" 4X4 for long term towing (Landcruiser or Patrol) it is just like People with a Landrover Discovery that has a tow limit of 3.5 tonnes, sure it will do it, and be Legal, but you would never catch me doing it for too long, seen it once, and that was enough for me!

What a ridiculous statement! What on earth makes you so sure that you need a Patrol or a Cruiser for towing bigger boats? Please do tell, how you have come to this conclusion? Do you really think an over zealous bunch of engineers have decided that a Discovery can tow 4t just for the heck of it? And this "proper" 4WD comment, What does that mean exactly?

[2IC]

Hi fredo,
My previous boat weighed about the same weight as your boat. At the time I was driving a falcon XR8 ute. I can tell you that I had no problems towing the boat around safley and had no problems what so ever putting in or pulling out at any ramps that we visited. Keep in mind that this is a ute with a very light tail end compared to a sedan.
Cheers

[seatime]

When I'm backing a 5t Noosacat down the ramp with a large tractor I'm in low range and don't apply the brakes until the back of the boat is in the water. The water assists braking otherwise we'd be sliding down the ramp if the brakes were on any earlier.
A Falcon auto gearbox may be easier to retrieve but wouldn't help when reversing.
When pulling out with a Falcon there may not be sufficient weight on the hitch and the rears can spin. Maybe some empty drums that you can fill with water and load in the boot can help when retrieving, once on level ground it'll be happy days and dump the load.

have a good one :)

[boatboy50]

Hey,

I used to regularly launch and retrieve my 1.6T boat with my 04 XR6 Turbo. It was auto and did it with ease in low gear. I also use some very steep ramps such as Runaway Bay, but they are all quality concrete ramps.

The Falcons don't have the strongest park brake though, so watch out for it going bad when used for this purpose.

The box is also not the best so also bear in mind it will shorten it's life.

Regards

Darren

[U4REEL]

fredo as you know i have the same boat, I have had it on the back of my vy commodore v6 work vehicle and it did not like it at all,the auto gearbox was starting to slip too.

dont risk it mate the KC is big lump of boat that catches wind easily and usually needs to go pretty deep into the water for a easy launch/retreive,also i found that when i had it on the back of the commodore that it was sagging dangerously low.

johnny

[MyEscape]

I'd say with a boat of that size you're going to have your car's rear wheels close to the water's edge. The ramp is going to be wet regardless of whether the tide is going in or out, just due to other boats being retreived and brought up the ramp.

I'm sure there would be no problem with power, just traction. How much towball weight do you have. Surely this is probably the most important factor. Well that and ramp angle. Probably in the south they have less angle than those around central (Mackay) with the tides are a little (lots) bigger.

Steve

[Noelm]

shanoss, I knew this would happen, I have nothing against a Diso, and I know it is Legal to tow 4 tonne and indeed I have towed over 3 tonne with one! but I will never do it again!!! but, by "proper" I mean forget all the Suzukis and other small 4X4's to be safe and stable you need WEIGHT in the tow vehicle, and Patrols and Cruisers fit the weight category better!

[Cheech]

Noelm, weren't you last words "enough from me"? :)

I towed a 1.6 t boat with my standard falcon for years. In my opinion it tows better than my 2.5t 4x4. Possibly because of the low c of g compared to the 4bee.

The only ramp I ever had a problem with was cabage tree creek at shorncliffe on low tide. Everywhere else it pulls up easily.

I have upgraded to a heavier boat. 21fter. The falcon is just as happy towing that as well.

What I would do though is get an add on transmission cooler fitted. As mentioned by others, the trans will do it hard.

Cheech

[Noelm]

the only reason I take the stand I ahve, is from the simple fact that for a while I towed a Sharkcat with a "standard" car, it was Legal, the car had a "beefed up" transmission and cooler, but I got stuck at the ramp anytime it was less than half tide, and on the Road it felt quite unsafe, the Transmission blew up twice, and so on, from then on I only think that towing anything that is "on the limit" for the tow vehicles capacity is fraught with danger, BUT as mentioned, if you want to do so, go ahead, people post here for opinions, if someone has a differing view then I think that is a good thing, no use asking a question and everyone blows Sunshine up your bum telling you it is fabulous, and first time out you get into a whole mess of strife, thats my slant on Forums, anyone can voice their opinion and the readers can sift through and take what they think will apply to their application!

[jack20000]

My advice is to buy a holden, if you cant then take a couple of bricks for the back wheels, it saved me once.

[PADDLES]

i agree with you noel, having a large trailer boat must be part of a "package" deal, you firstly need somewhere to park it and then you need something to tow it comfortably. most large trailer boats are worth a fair bit of money, a cheap old cruiser or patrol (say $10k) to tow it is chicken feed compared to the boat price. in my opinion you need a big 4wd with a big strong drivetrain and big brakes. anyone towing a 2.5t trailer with a falcon on a regular basis is going to kill it quick smart, they're simply not made for the job.

[Shanoss]

For comparisons sake:

80 Series Cruiser = 2036kg Curb weight
97 Dicovery = 2029kg curb weight

Not a lot in it as far as i can tell. Though i would reckon the Patrol would be a bit heavier.

[Shanoss]

Not that i'm saying he should be towing a 2t boat with a falcon, but there other vehicles out there capable of towing heavier loads than Cruiser and Patrols. I've towed my boat (2.3t) with a cruiser for years and hated it. Just changed over to a Discovery and towing is now almost enjoyable. The cruisers and patrols are not the be all and end all of anything.

[ozscott]

quote=Shanoss;730945]For comparisons sake:

80 Series Cruiser = 2036kg Curb weight
97 Dicovery = 2029kg curb weight

Not a lot in it as far as i can tell. Though i would reckon the Patrol would be a bit heavier.[/quote]

Hi Shannos - I did this exercise with my bro in law who has GQ Patrol - his Patrol and my Disco weigh in the same with almost identical torque and power and almost identical revs - Discos are constant though whereas the GQ was not. There is no way that the GQ or 80 series was a better tow vehicle than the V8 Disco. I have a 95 Diso 3.9 auto and an 02 4.0 manual. They fly. My brother has a 94 3.9 manual and he regularly tows a GQ comp vehicle on a car trailer (his mates comp vehicle while my brother works up his 400+hp County comp truck) and it does it with no dramas at all including towing up through the ranges to and from Landcruiser Mtn Park.

No doubt the later Cruisers and Patrols were better just because they were so much heavier and had heaps more grunt, but lets compare apples with apples and that would require a comparo with the D3 which, in all the tow tests run by Australian 4WD Monthly etc, leave the other big 2 of dead....go and have a look at the web site...check out Overlander's review for example (its very interesting reading). I wouldnt post it up, but I get a bit over LR bashing and I dont sink the boot into Toyos and Patrols unless provoked.:-X

www.overlander.com.au/vehicle_tests/index/full/289/Tow-Test:-Part-1---Large-Wagons (http://www.overlander.com.au/vehicle_tests/index/full/289/Tow-Test:-Part-1---Large-Wagons)

[Noelm]

fully agree, I was just making a "for instance"

[Noelm]

remember the original question was about towing a biggish rig with a car! and never meant to be a Patrol V Cruiser V Disco experience

[ozscott]

thats true mate, but he might want to upgrade (after reading all this) so being informed of the altenatives is not a bad thing.

Cheers

[PADDLES]

does the disco have the same running gear as the defender range? if so then it'll be more than up to the task. i was more making the point that for a good long term tow vehicle you need the biggest, strongest running gear you can get. you only have to poke your head under a patrol to see the physical difference in size of the diff/axle housing as compared to say a hilux one.

[thelump]

As usual the landrover supporters are a passionate bunch. They end up pretty good mechanics too;D

[Roo]

As usual the landrover supporters are a passionate bunch. They end up pretty good mechanics too;D

LMAO;D ;D low blow...
but funny.

[Shanoss]

remember the original question was about towing a biggish rig with a car! and never meant to be a Patrol V Cruiser V Disco experience

When you make a comment about "proper" 4WD's as you did, then you should probably be able to back it up. All i am saying is that it doesnt have to be only the "big two" that people consider when making a choice of tow vehicle.

[Dean1]

Hi ff, mate i also have the same boat as you as you know, out of the 10 times ive used it ive struk the boat ramp at low tide 2 times. I tow mine with a 05 rodeo 4wd turbo diesel and those 2 times because the ramp is so steep and can drop off at the end ive had no hope of pulling it out unless i engaged 4wd. I also had an errie feeling as a truck came really close at 100klms on the highway the other night, they suck in cats when beside big trucks!! Dont risk it mate, it might work 1 time but good chance not the next. Cheers Deano 8-)

[U4REEL]

yep same here dean,we use my mates rodeo 05 turbo diesel and find we have to grab 4wd sometimes as well.

[freddofrog]

Hi all

Sorry to have missed all the fun of this healthy debate but been flat chat. I already have a 80 series cruiser but as we recently got the falcon so I though I may be able to get by with just that. But given it's going to cost $1500-$2000 for the tow pack plus auxillary transmission cooler and it's (very) debatable if it will even work so it's probably not worth the risk.

So I think I'll just stick to using the cruiser. At least it gives me a good reason to hold onto it :)

Thanks for all the input
ff

[laney]

ive been waiting inline at the casino boat ramp on the gold coast when a fella was retrieving his 5.5m or there abouts cruisecraft with an AU model falcon. it is can quite sandy that ramp and as it was about half way winched onto the trailer the boats weight started to drag the whole car towards the water. luckily he wasd far enough back form the waters edge he could switch the rachet over on the winch and let it slide back into the water.

ive always thought the general rule of the tow car should weigh close or more than what is being towed is a good one.

[flatstrap]

The Overlander test says it all:
The Land Rover Discovery is "hat, head, shoulders and chest above all the the others on test. The best on the planet." You can cling on to anecdotal myths about the others but you can't dispute the facts. Facts are facts.
End of story...

[1975fflh]

Mate

I have a Coxcraft rumrunner 1989 mod with 1999 90hp Johnno, now all up they hit 700kgs, + the trailer + gear+ 110litre fuel tank.
the glass boat is 5.2metres long.
i drive a 1997 ford wagon it pulls great but heavy on the juice. put some load helpers on the back about $120 it will stop the car steering like the boat

[ozscott]

I used to tow about the same weight, 1975, with my VT Commodore V6 manual. I now have about 2tonn with my 21foot Seafarer and all the gear that I have added and heavy trailer, and the VT was struggling with the V16C - it wouldnt have moved the Seafarer up my driveway which is gravel. As for road towing I reckon it would have been a dog. There is a massive practical difference between 1 tonn and 2 tonn behind anything short of a Mack recovery truck. Before I graveled my drive it used to be grass and I towed the boat up there even in the wet with the Disco. I once had to drive accross a 10 inch high concrete median strip to avoid accident traffic and get home another way, and you can only do that in a forby. Idling around in low range when positioning a big dual axle in tight spots is amazing also. I know not everyone has to do this stuff with their 2 tonn boats, but when you want to its all go. I would always be worried at a ramp if I had a relatively light 2wd. I have a mate who once towed his 2.2 tonn boat with an old chev ute that was about 2 tonns and it was 2wd only, but had a good LSD up the back and big mud tyres that could spin down and grab some concrete, but even then he had to be careful on some really bad ramps.

Cheers

[Sandman]

The only problem i had with towing with a ford was slipage at the ramp in Hervey Bay, now if you have ever experienced this its not a great feeling but one of much relief when the car finaly stops prior to going under, This happened on 2 occassions using a mates ford to tow the boat as my dear old 62 Fairlane was not up to the job :) Low tide there is often alot of slime on the ramp , with all the weight at the back (being the boat) the car just slid back, i knocked the boat into gear to help ( possibly not the best thing to do but it worked). Now i have a Disco :) Noelam you are possibly correct about the disco but so far it treats me well although i upgraded the clutch and take it easy.
Regards
Mick

[Noelm]

I have absolutely NOTHING aginst a Landrover, it was just when I used a "for instance" and mentioned Landcruiser and Patrol as being better tow vehicles, that I got toasted for implying that Landrovers where not up there with the rest, BUT I still reckon that regardless of how Legal it is, I would not tow 4 tonnes with a Landrover, or a Patrol/Landcruiser, been in a Disco with just over 3tonnes and that was enough to never do it again, BUT in saying that as a car/4X4/Tow vehicle, it is as good as any of the others, not my "cup of Tea" when it comes to styling, but that is just a personal thing!

[Noelm]

OH Yeah, in regards to using the Boat to stop the car from slipping into the Water, there is times when you need to use the Boat to just get moving on a very slippery ramp, but make sure your trailer and winch post is good, other wise a Boat in the boot will result, seen that already!

[ozscott]

G'day Noel - your latest post will appease all us roverphiles matey. I agree about the styling of Rovers - they have always polarised people over the years. I personally love the styling, but I know people who cannot tolerate it. Interestingly I have a mate who test drove all the heavy 4wds and bought a 03 Disco because (apart from they way it handled) his simple view was that he liked the view out the front better from the driver's seat and could see all corners - he got it despite the fact that he wasnt that taken with the styling!

Those of us who like the styling of the rover usually like it because its boxy, and does not look like a japanese attempt at a spacey/modern look (ie mean seriously what is with the current model prado's headlights!) - and as a result they dont date and look much better with a set of big fat tyres on them!

Cheers matey.

[charleville]

What I would do though is get an add on transmission cooler fitted.



Is this an easy add-on to do?


I don't have the problem yet as my boat is light but when I bought a new Falcon a few months ago, I did get the heavy duty tow bar and stabiliser thing but have not worried about the transmission until such time as I needed to.

[oldboot]

Now I'm disapointed:(

I was looking forward to a boat ramp meet & greet where we all sat and watched while our old mate slid slowly into the bay in a falcon submarine.;D

Come on mate will yo do just for the funn of it;D ;D

seriously.

electric brakes are wonderfull....... but they don't work going backwards either

interestingly....I worked on some energex vehicled quite some time ago....they used em to tow generators and cable reel taillers........ guess what......... landrovers.

cheers

[mik01]

Mate

I have a Coxcraft rumrunner 1989 mod with 1999 90hp Johnno, now all up they hit 700kgs, + the trailer + gear+ 110litre fuel tank.
the glass boat is 5.2metres long.
i drive a 1997 ford wagon it pulls great but heavy on the juice. put some load helpers on the back about $120 it will stop the car steering like the boat

i have the same boat with a 115yammy. i have the 06 falcon sedan and have never had a problem pulling the boat out in any tide. it pulls the boat great on the road, plenty of power and is very stable.
but wouldn't like to pull something twice its weight!

[Sandman]

Noelm i agree with what your saying , I guess landies have been in the blood for some time , personally for a 4x4 i do prefer Landcruiser and for towing i would much rather a ford 250 but cant afford to run the boat and the car :) I actually like the look of the new Hummer 3 pitty they dont come in diesel and have better towing weight on them , surprised me how low it is 1750kg braked!!
Just back to the orginal Q, its the breaking power that needs to be considered within all of this , yep you maybe able to tow with a ford but will it stopp with 2 tonne behind it??
Also Merry Christmas everyone hope to see you all on the water for our next rally.
Mick

[Mr__Bean]

No problem towing a boat and trailer combination that is heavier than the car, as this guy proved. ;D


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v357/lighthouse2k/Golf1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v357/lighthouse2k/Tow1.jpg

- Darren

[Sandman]

May have been ok if it was deisel :)

[ozscott]

nice...front wheel drive

[Noelm]

only a fairly small Boat though, kind of shows the folly in trying to tow a Boat with a vehicle not up to the task, like a falcon to tow a 2 tonne Boat as was first asked, it can and will do it BUT at sometime you will come to grief and regret it!

[PinHead]

if the boat is 2 tonnes then it should have electric brakes fitted shouldn't it???

[PinHead]

the only reason I take the stand I ahve, is from the simple fact that for a while I towed a Sharkcat with a "standard" car, it was Legal, the car had a "beefed up" transmission and cooler, but I got stuck at the ramp anytime it was less than half tide, and on the Road it felt quite unsafe, the Transmission blew up twice, and so on, from then on I only think that towing anything that is "on the limit" for the tow vehicles capacity is fraught with danger, BUT as mentioned, if you want to do so, go ahead, people post here for opinions, if someone has a differing view then I think that is a good thing, no use asking a question and everyone blows Sunshine up your bum telling you it is fabulous, and first time out you get into a whole mess of strife, thats my slant on Forums, anyone can voice their opinion and the readers can sift through and take what they think will apply to their application!

perhaps that may have been the driver and not the equipment???

[PinHead]

i would not hesitate towing the boat with your falcon

[brock smith]

i have towed a close to 2 ton boat/trailer all over the state with a falcon for five years.the car has been perfect and never missed a beat.have uprated the rear springs and fitted a trans oil cooler.it is definetly alot more powerful than most slug box four wheel drives.a second hand falcon is about half the price of a fwd.have made an extension bar for doggy ramps that cost about fifty bucks and is mounted on the trailer all the time.just use the extension bar (3m plus an 8m trailer) if you need to go too far down the ramp.funny thing is the only time i have ever used mine was when the winch cable snapped and we floated the boat on.
the reason the cars get pulled backwards on the ramp is as the boat comes onto the trailer it lifts the back of the car up and if theres no weight over the back the handbrake doesn't work.simple solution be it 4wd or not is to chok the front wheels when winching the boat on.
as for the brakes i have never had a problem but i always make sure the trailers brakes are ajusted up.its not the cars job to stop the trailer anyway and any vehicle will jacknife if the trailers brakes dont work.
only drawback is at low tide i cant drive the boat on and have to use the winch but its only usually about half the trailer length that needs to be winched on.
most the time i launch at ramps that pick up ocean swell and still have never had a problem.
dont worry about chicken little you will be right.just use some commen sense.

[oldboot]

if the boat is 2 tonnes then it should have electric brakes fitted shouldn't it???

From what I hear the MRD have rolled over on cabin operated brakes and are permitting over riding brakes where they wouldn't have a number of years ago.

cant say for sure or at what point they now require break away systems.


but definitely if its over 750kg it must have some sort of braking system.
the other issue is the point at whick the vehicles towing rating requires brakes.

My little L300 requires brakes over 500kg for instance.
cheers

[ozscott]

I forgot a little thing that happened to me when towing only a V16C with my VT Commodore (which was a heavy commodore) V6. It was an S with the police pack suspension and cold air induction - had a fair bit of haul. I used a ramp that was shorter than I rememeberd it and dropped a wheel over the end - single axle so it sat on the spring! I manged to get it off only after lighting the bags a few times and swinging the wheel about, but it was touch and go...very nearly needed a tow!

Cheers

[PinHead]

LOL Scott..that one got me thinking about a mate..had a 24' boat about 15 years ago..towed by a big old lump of a Land cruiser..Breakfast Creek ramp..low tide..rather slippery...gets the boat started on the trailer..hits the electric winch..boat stays put and Crusier and trailer are getting winched under the boat...merrily sliding backwards down the ramp..I dissolved laughing...I got in the car and held it in gear till he got the boat on.

[seabug]

No problem towing a boat and trailer combination that is heavier than the car, as this guy proved. ;D


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v357/lighthouse2k/Golf1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v357/lighthouse2k/Tow1.jpg

- Darren
Looks bad all that water on the road under car.
Did it go for a swim?
OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!
Regards
seabug

[megalodon]

Towing with a Falcon depends on a few little things. First no matter towing or not is you put in a large oil cooler ( PRW brand at Super cheap was about $88 ) Good brand no crap. You cut your oil lines with a very small pipe cutter ( Do not use hack saw ) and by pass the in radiator cooler all together. Top up the cooler with oil before connecting the lines use vice grips to crush the rubber hose and lock them so you dont loose oil as you connect it. The cooler in the radiator is the problem. They blow up under pressure and then crack. ( Very common) Then next you have oil in your water or water in your oil. Some models like the EF can flake off bits of brass and stuff your auto as well. It should be un said but get your regular auto services done and have them do a total flush of the system not just drop out a few liters of fluid and top it back up.Well cooler replaced then you need to make sure you run Bendix pads all around. No real need to beef up AU brakes if you own a Crumbledoore and beefed up your brakes you just might have put in AU calipers just different mounting brackets and didnt know it :) As normal to fix a holden they put in Ford parts ;) Now the only other thing you should have is a model of Falcon with a LSD. Not much use trying to pull a heavy load up a ramp unless both rear wheels can drive. No you should never tow a trailer that is more in weight than the tow vechile and most people only look because a boat looks so large. What about a Falcon or Crumbledoore on a car trailer? You see them being towed by Falcons all the time and the combined weight would be close to 3 ton. You wouldnt look twice would you. Then again dont look at a semi. Prime mover 10 ton? Trailer 25 ton? Or road train 80 to 140 ton driven every day of the week. Then again dont look at the road train record. 45 trailers, weighing 603 tons (http://www.ausfish.com.au/wiki/Metric_ton) and measuring 610 metres (http://www.ausfish.com.au/wiki/Metre) pulled by a Kenworth (http://www.ausfish.com.au/wiki/Kenworth) for 8 km. So there ya go the perfect tow vechile for you is a Kenny :)

[Jabba_]

Hi all

We now have a ford falcon that has a towing capacity of 2300kg. This is only just more than my 2150kg 5.2m KC.

While it is technically within it’s towing limits, will the car able to tow the boat up the ramp? The ramps I’m thinking about are well maintained ones, obviously wet but not covered in beach sand and of varying angles.

I obviously don’t want the car sliding backwards into the ocean :o or spend the $1500 required to find out it ain’t going to work.:o

I have spoken to ford and they say yes it can but they are in the business of selling you stuff and I’m not convinced they know what they are talking about ::)

Ta
ff
Hohoho, have a merry christmas :) :) :) :) :)

My Falcon XR8 ute never had a problem pulling 5.9 Seafarer out off the water, and I got the wheels wet many times in the process ... Just stay on the maintained boat ramps and you wont have a problem.....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y159/jabba1/0707070156-1.jpg

I Now have a Nissan Navara ST-X and I have never used 4x4 to pull my boat from the water... My boat and trailer weigh about 2500kg....

[tully]

Now the only other thing you should have is a model of Falcon with a LSD. Not much use trying to pull a heavy load up a ramp unless both rear wheels can drive. :)
At the risk of steering this thread off course, can anyone comment on the effectiveness of traction control? Is it as good as a LSD? Thinking of getting a used late model falcon or commodore. Is it worth getting?

[ozscott]

Traction control is excellent at the ramp on the discovery - but its on all 4 wheels.

Nice rig there matey.....looks fast as a package.

Pinhead....I reckon I would be laughing too!

Cheers

[steveg1100]

I have used a friends falcon ute to tow my sharkcat when we had no alternative one day. Laden with petrol and gear. It's a Bruce Harris 18ft cat so I would estimate is approx 2300kg. We did not have to go great distance to get to the ramp and took it easy. It seemed to tow it ok but there was some wheel spinning when trying to get it back up the ramp. It made it but I felt it was touch and go. It was an old falcon xf ute and I think it would have helped if he had some decent rear wheels with some decent tread.

The things you do to get out fishing.

[Dean1]

I have used a friends falcon ute to tow my sharkcat when we had no alternative one day. Laden with petrol and gear. It's a Bruce Harris 18ft cat so I would estimate is approx 2300kg. We did not have to go great distance to get to the ramp and took it easy. It seemed to tow it ok but there was some wheel spinning when trying to get it back up the ramp. It made it but I felt it was touch and go. It was an old falcon xf ute and I think it would have helped if he had some decent rear wheels with some decent tread.

The things you do to get out fishing.That reminds me of the pacific platey we used to tow years ago it was 2100kgs with an xf ute and an xe panelvan, they did the job but it was sketchy ;D

[Smithy]

I Now have a Nissan Navara ST-X and I have never used 4x4 to pull my boat from the water... My boat and trailer weigh about 2500kg....

From the picture you posted you are on cable actuated brakes. Have you upgraded to breakaway brakes since that picture was taken? Better weigh your rig and find out.

[Jabba_]

From the picture you posted you are on cable actuated brakes. Have you upgraded to breakaway brakes since that picture was taken? Better weigh your rig and find out.
Yeah I cable actuated brakes... At this point the cable is more then adequate... I only live 600m from my preferred boat ramp (Loaders creek). As it stands the cable worked well towing the rig to Mackay... I had the rig over a weigh station bridge, and it was 2250kg, Boat and trailer only. Boat was empty and no fuel in tank.. Add 180lt fuel and tackle, rods, saftey equipment and second anchor and it would put it at 2500kg or just over......

[gar26lw]

Mate

I have a Coxcraft rumrunner 1989 mod with 1999 90hp Johnno, now all up they hit 700kgs, + the trailer + gear+ 110litre fuel tank.
the glass boat is 5.2metres long.
i drive a 1997 ford wagon it pulls great but heavy on the juice. put some load helpers on the back about $120 it will stop the car steering like the boat


whats a load helper?

[megalodon]

A load helper is really called a weight distribution hitch such as at Hayman reece.
Go to this site.
http://www.haymanreese.com.au/index.htm
Then click on products then click the Weight distribution.
The pictures will explain everything. There are other brands on the market but this mob is meant to be the best. Its not a new idea we used the same type of setup going back 30, 35 years ago towing large caravans. If the cost makes you cry there was a good brand that used a cast crescent shaped bit of steel that bolts under your tow ball and it used 4 round steel rods to run back to your trailer draw bar. I preferred these ones because i never liked the cast looking bars with chains that Hayman use. If a trailer is packed right so the weight is distributed correct there is not a need as a load leveler but they help in bounce to where you get that bouncing rocking forward and back. It dosnt stop it but it shortens the time it will go on for as your going up the road and makes it a lot less chance of you running all over the road in bad situations.. Though some like the feeling of a rocking horse.

[MY-TopEnder]

Personal opinion is don't do it...

I've seen 2 guys at the Jacobs Well ramp get stuck. One of which was about a 5m plate boat on a falcon ute... luckily he was a concreter and shovelled the sand out of the way but there was still wheelspin while he dried the ramp off enough to get it to hook up.

The other one wasn't so lucky. A V8 Crewman with a 6m glass boat on had no hope.... Surf to the rescue with a tow rope, low range and rear diff locked got them out.

Point of the story is it only take a bit of sand or boat wash and its all going nowhere fast... not worth risky the inconvenience to other ramp users personally.

[Mister]

Yeah I cable actuated brakes... At this point the cable is more then adequate... I only live 600m from my preferred boat ramp (Loaders creek). As it stands the cable worked well towing the rig to Mackay... I had the rig over a weigh station bridge, and it was 2250kg, Boat and trailer only. Boat was empty and no fuel in tank.. Add 180lt fuel and tackle, rods, saftey equipment and second anchor and it would put it at 2500kg or just over......

Those cable brakes are illegal.

[Mrs Ronnie H]

Hi All

We have a patrol, big heavy beast it is and I still get worried backing our girl down the ramp. 6metre cruisecraft which weighs a ton or more empty so I wouldn't even think of using a falcon even if the towing capacity was 2300kg.

Have you got a Video camera?????

Ronnie

[Greg P]

Yeah I cable actuated brakes... At this point the cable is more then adequate... I only live 600m from my preferred boat ramp (Loaders creek). As it stands the cable worked well towing the rig to Mackay... I had the rig over a weigh station bridge, and it was 2250kg, Boat and trailer only. Boat was empty and no fuel in tank.. Add 180lt fuel and tackle, rods, saftey equipment and second anchor and it would put it at 2500kg or just over......

Do you know the regulations regarding trailers ????

If you have an accident regardless of blame you will be in court with no insurance. It does not matter whether it is 6m or 600m - if you drive it on a public road you need to have the correct breakaway system.

Braking systems

• trailers over 2000 kg GTM require a brake system (breakaway brakes) that automatically
applies if the trailer becomes detached from the towing vehicle; and
• trailers over 2000 kg GTM must have brakes operating on all wheels.

[MyWay]

Hi all

We now have a ford falcon that has a towing capacity of 2300kg. This is only just more than my 2150kg 5.2m KC.

While it is technically within it’s towing limits, will the car able to tow the boat up the ramp? The ramps I’m thinking about are well maintained ones, obviously wet but not covered in beach sand and of varying angles.

I obviously don’t want the car sliding backwards into the ocean :o or spend the $1500 required to find out it ain’t going to work.:o

I have spoken to ford and they say yes it can but they are in the business of selling you stuff and I’m not convinced they know what they are talking about ::)

Ta
ff
Hohoho, have a merry christmas :) :) :) :) :)
fF
I don't know where you live but if you can get your boat over Getaway Bridge whit falcon u will have no problem at ramp:D.
I got mate he tow his Big blue boat whit falcon and no problem at ramp
,and another mate got 6.4 HH no problem at all.
If you scared to try I will do for you but you have to take me fishing after I park car :) :)

[ozscott]

Its not about towing on the highway so much, but what happens when somthing happens at the ramp - such as dropping a trailer wheel over the side/in a hole, sand on the ramp, the ramp not being pressure cleaned for a while and being very slippery etc...then you will wish that you had 4wd a heavier one if possible than a lighter one...

[seamaid]

;D This may be the last santa you see this year Happy New Year;D

freddofrog you do not say how old this falcon is, for $1500 what vintage &
size motor & towing distance from ramp.
If you concerns are only with the local ramp ( ok ) This falcon is going to
get a good work out, if your stuck with it i would be purchasing some rubber
wedges under rear wheels.
My recommendtions wee bit prime mover to do the job.

Cheers ged :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/

[gar26lw]

i dont know if anyone else does this but i always keep the engine running and the driver door open when im on the ramp. just in case.
i launch and retrieve by myself so i have to really.
saved me once when i found i didnt put the handbrake on enough.

ive seen people jumping up and down on the back of their ute's to get enough grip to pull the boat up. i guess this is out in a car.

if it was really dodgy id just tow the boat to a marina ramp and get them to put it in and out with the tractor.

the next boat im looking at is 700-1000 kg's over my cars towing weight so its storage for me.
ive worked out the costs and its about 40-80 bucks more per month to rack or trailer store depending on where compared to towing and ramp fees.

i looked at putting on a tow hitch on our larger car but it actually works out the same or more expensive per month to tow for a year than store with the added cost of having one fitted

[SgBFish]

How is the towing capacity of a vehicale calculated?

If a falcon is 2,300KG and my 4X4 Pajero is only 2,500KG I know which I would trust on a sandy ramp.

Its about traction and stopping power
I hope you haven't got kids in that car.


Scott

[CharlieH]

Hi guys, first post.

I don't own a boat as of yet (am looking currently). I don't see the weight argument for a 4x4 v a sedan/ute when todays Falcadores are neigh on 2 ton (around the same weight as the 4x4's quoted earlier).

I'm just wondering how my car will go towing a perhaps 2 ton car. I have a Toyota Soarer, it's almost 2 ton (It's what's sold OS as a Lexus, lots of goodies to make it heavy heh), has a kind of powerful quad cam v8, big airbag shock's (so no worry about sag for towing too often) and large brakes. The rear wheels are 10" wide with 285 width tyres on them.

I really don't want to have to purchase a different car for a boat. I guess I'll see how I go.

I'm thinking the only difference between towing with my car and a 4x4 would be the lack of 4x4. On the other hand my drive tyres are damn wide so it may be OK?

[davez104]

Your drivetrain is probably not as strong as most 4x4's either. A falcon will tow a 2 tonne anything up a good ramp, but probably not real good for it in the long run. As far as towing your soarer, is it on a trailer or just towing it by itself? How far are you taking it, just to the dump or further? Kidding, Ford man myself, but each to thier own. What is your tow vehicle? I'm guessing an X series falcon with rubber like that, rather than a late model.

Dave.

[NAGG]

I'd like to see any rear wheel drive car ... tow a 2 tonne boat out of ramps like Macleay River ( South West Rocks) or Rose bay (Sydney) during a low spring tide::) ...... You cant get traction on the rear wheels! ........ Yet a pissy little Magna probably could!
Nagg

[ozscott]

A lot of the weight on the new Falcadores is with things such as sound proofing, ABS, extra speakers etc (and to an extent extra steel in the doors and pillars for crash protection). But the weight has certainly not gone into extra drivetrain and suspension weight. The motors are also torquay by virtue of variable valve timing etc and dont have the mass of the bigger heavier engines drivetrain turning around.... Its chalk and cheese between proper 4wd and falc or commodore for towing major weights. I know because I towed a 16 foot haines with a VT (actually heavier than the next model on) and then with a Land Rover Discovery V8 and I would not even consider comparing...then I got the 21 seafarer and goodbye VT.

Cheers

[Shanoss]

Hi guys, first post.

I don't own a boat as of yet (am looking currently). I don't see the weight argument for a 4x4 v a sedan/ute when todays Falcadores are neigh on 2 ton (around the same weight as the 4x4's quoted earlier).

I'm just wondering how my car will go towing a perhaps 2 ton car. I have a Toyota Soarer, it's almost 2 ton (It's what's sold OS as a Lexus, lots of goodies to make it heavy heh), has a kind of powerful quad cam v8, big airbag shock's (so no worry about sag for towing too often) and large brakes. The rear wheels are 10" wide with 285 width tyres on them.

I really don't want to have to purchase a different car for a boat. I guess I'll see how I go.

I'm thinking the only difference between towing with my car and a 4x4 would be the lack of 4x4. On the other hand my drive tyres are damn wide so it may be OK?


Dont know how keen i would be leaving a Soarer down the boat ramp. I had Mitsi GTO that no doubt would have towed the boat and dragged it up the ramp(AWD).
But, at the end of the day, you're asking for trouble. Do the soarers even have a tow bar option on them?

[CharlieH]

Dont know how keen i would be leaving a Soarer down the boat ramp. I had Mitsi GTO that no doubt would have towed the boat and dragged it up the ramp(AWD).
But, at the end of the day, you're asking for trouble. Do the soarers even have a tow bar option on them?

I'm not sure. I would have thought most grandpa type cars (well, cars aimed at the older guys) would have. Mine is after market though I believe.

I just picked up my first ever boat. A 14 foot Baracuda half cabin. Needs a bit of work but I'm looking forward to getting stuck into it. I towed it back with the Soarer and it was fine other then the trailer being a little old and bouncy. I doub't the boat's all that heavy though. Although it has a 50HP Merc on it.

[paul cooper]

i own a ford ed on gas and tow a 4.6 quinnie recently i had a bad encounter with the boat ramp in coffs harbour . i put the boat on and put the foot down and nothing happened i started to go backwards luckily a local got in and drove the car . whilst i pushed the car up the ramp, with the boat but the ramp had green algy on it and was as slippery as hell .so to me unless you have ideal conditions forget it i also have trouble getting the boat up the slight grassy area beside my house when it has been raining and have been bogged several times
coop

[Hamish73]

Out of curiosity, who locks their front hubs when launcging/retrieving?
I only have a 5m CC tinny and a GU patrol so there is no need. I gave it a but much once and she spun up, just backed off and traction (and control) was regained.

[fly_1]

Can I just ask a stupid question??? How come your 5.2m Kcat weighs so much??? I have one, as does my brother, and they are both fully set up for sportfishing ( with all the little extras we all like to add etc),and with full fuel, rods,esky and all the other crap we use on a full days fishing, they still are under 2 tonnes!!! Have had them over a weighbridge on a number of times, and yet to hit the 2 tonne mark. We both have alloy trailers ( that came from the kcat factory when they were built), which may make them alittle lighter.Also, they are both fitted with cable break away systems ( which is all that is required), and have never had a drama with them. Yes, its a big lump of boat, but I have a cruiser, and my brother has a challenger,and they both have no problems pulling them, and more importantly, stopping them.

[fly_1]

forgot to mention, Have never had to ,or needed to, put the car in 4wd to retrieve it.
trent

[oldboot]

Re towing a car on a trailer with another car...... any car

I think those days are over......look at the towing capacity of most sedan based cars, then add the weight of the car trailer and the car loaded & I think youll find the whole thing is busted..........even a small car like a corola weighs arround a tonne, you recon a tandem car trailer will weigh less than 500KG.

Just a couple of figures I have to hand

XC falcon V8 only, auto only, fitted with a classII towing package and a ford approved leveling device and brakes on the trailer...... maximum towing capacity 1600Kg.
If its the 6 cylinder or manual max capacity 900kg
In their day the XC V8 falcon was the tow car of choice.
Consider the current models have lighter bodies.

So has anybody looked in their glove box and found their towing capacity from the owners manual.

these days if you want to tow anything over 1500KG.... legaly.....it needs to be either a larger 4x4 or a truck.

Oh and dont the QLD coppers love to ping the caravanners comming up from down south where the laws are different.

cheers

[charleville]

So has anybody looked in their glove box and found their towing capacity from the owners manual.

these days if you want to tow anything over 1500KG.... legaly.....it needs to be either a larger 4x4 or a truck.



This is an excerpt from the Ford site for the current model Falcon heavy duty towpack option, which I have on my car ...

http://img.skitch.com/20080113-mr1crn3wffq6216m213yewsayj.jpg

[finga]

Oh and dont the QLD coppers love to ping the caravanners comming up from down south where the laws are different.

cheers
What laws are those??
I thought a towing capacity was a towing capacity Australia wide and if the legal towing capacity of the vehicle was higher then what your towing your right all around this great nation.
Is there some other laws involved for towing??
Fill us in please as my sister and her husband are about to embark on a 'round Australia jaunt for a year or 3 towing the van.

[PADDLES]

i don't lock my hubs in hamish but i do put the old girl in low range to make life a bit easier on the clutch and also minimise any wheel spin.

[JRBK]

My dad tows a 5.5m fibreglass pursuit boat, which can handle it no problems on the roads at all. The problems he does have:
- slippery ramps
- where the ramp has fallen away in the water and there is a drop off of concrete, pulling it out can be an issue
- angle point where the ramp meets the carpark. he has scraped and been stuck a couple of times. when it is quiet it is ok as he can go on angles etc if the ramp width allows him.

Cheers
Mark..