custom rod pricing

[ryansrods]

i am just starting my own rod shop was wondering if anyone can help me on the matter of pricing things as i have always built my own rods i have never had one repaired or built so have no idea weather i am too cheap or dear but from the reaction i am getting from customers maybe abit cheap please help

[DR]

the truth is you will never get what a rod is truely worth. The only way to get close is to make sure it is 'custom' in the way that it is designed to suit exactly what the customer requires, then bind it as a single (colour eg black on black) as soon as you start putting multi coloured trims on binds & doing weaves & decorative butt binds it all becomes time, & time is money. There are not a lot out there that want to pay $50-$60 dollars an hour for a complicated pattern that may take , say, 10 hours to complete whole rod.. if you think the hourly rate is dear, just check with any tradesman as to the hourly rate charged..they charge big $$$s but most would balk at you if you quoted the same rate to build them a rod, they all think you do it for fun...it soon becomes evident why the 'high profile' builders soon start designing for commercial rod companies & writing books etc.
some, however do create themselves a niche market & appear to survive, which i think is fantastic.
If you do this, don't give up your day job...

[Noelm]

I guess if you are just starting out, then you would be better to just charge a "fair" price to get yourself off the ground, I don't mean to do it for bugger all, but untill you get a "name" you will need to make a living/spare cash and slowly build your client base.

[ryansrods]

how do you get a job building for a company

[garret]

so what sort of prices do you charge?

[ryansrods]

about 60 bucs plus parts for custom rod 4o bucs extra for weave or wrap

[Stuart]

Ryan

For those prices mate I will be sending all my rods to you to build. In all honesty mate you will have to suck it and see, it took me many years to build a reputation that could warrant people paying a premium price. The biggest mistake new and average rod builders make is they think they are much better than what they actually are and in so think they can charge more. The price simply doesn’t reflect the quality so you wind up loosing customers.

I find there are two types of rod builder, the one that charges too much and the other that simply doesn’t. The other question is what is the quality of your product, how much machinery have you invested in, and what capitol have you invested in the venture. It took me quite a few years and much nagging from my wife to put up the prices on the rods, I did take her advice but I also did this slowly and felt out what the customer’s reaction was. Very small scale rod builders make the mistake of under valuing the rod just to get a job and in so doing this it has a knock on effect to long time professional rod builders.

This is actually a huge problem in the industry that it’s taking a toll on long time builders that they are getting out of it. I think you need to put some prices for example along with the blank and all components and I will tell you if you are in the ball park. Don’t let anyone tell you that there isn’t enough money to be made in rod building, I make a very comfortable living as a full time rod builder and have done for many years. If you’re committed enough then you will go far, if you look at it as a part time gig then that’s all it will ever be.

Contracting for other companies isn’t a bad idea; I did that for around 5 years on top of my own rods. It can be good and it can be bad but as the saying goes you have to take the good with the bad. I sell rods to over 10 countries and this is what you can expect if you stick with it and focus on making only top quality rods. Where are you located Ryan I may be able to help you out a bit more mate.

Stu

[ryansrods]

stuart i live in yamba nsw any help or advise would be muchly appreciated here is an example of a rod i built samuari nv10 $159
fuji palmsupport reel seat 22mm $26
bmnag guides $120
winding check $1
gimbal cover
thread $7
epoxy $7
labour $60
included on all custom rods is weave or wrap of choice for no extra charge depending on size (large wraps or weaves may incure an additional fee for exsese thread also your name weaved on rod

[Stuart]

Ryan

Ok mate you are obviously paying near enough to full retail price so your margin is going to be cut straight away. I don’t want to sound as though I’m putting you down here mate but including a weave or butt wrap for no extra charge is beyond comprehension. How many people here would work for free? None I bet. This reinforces what I said in my last post were rod builders charge to little and this has a negative knock on effect through the industry.

I charge a minimum of $180 +GST for a small weave and up to $300 + for a large weave. Butt wraps can be as much as weaves because they can take the same amount of time to do. Ryan, $60 for your labour isn’t any where near enough. Deduct tax if in fact your paying tax then you won’t be left with much. It’s easier to start high and come down a bit than start cheap and go up in price. That equates to around 12 hours work at $5 per hour, I would say that’s looking much like Chinees wages wouldn’t you say. Lets take one of my 8kg stand up short lever rods For an example Ryan, leather grip, weave of a yellow fin tuna chassing some bait, Aftco light weight roller guides, Aftco black and gold reel seat, Hypolon rear grip and Aftco black gimble built on my own custom blank for around the $800 mark. I can tell you that these rods walk out the door, so price isnt always an issue.

The other issue you need to understand is what type of clientel you want to attract. If by focussing on cheaper rods then you wont make much of a go at it. If you aim high and think big and charge accordingly then you will always be going up the ladder rather than stagnating like many rod builders have done around the traps. Pricing is always going to be a touchy issue but its some thing you need to work out now rather than latter, get a plan and some goals written down on paper and you will go great guns for sure.

Stu

[ryansrods]

thanks stuart given me somthing to seriously think a about the only reason doing weaves and wraps for free was to promote my crafting abilities as i people dont take much notice because im only 26 people seem to think ya gotta be an old foogy to be a good rod crafter even though ive been continuosly building rods since i was 12 my dad built rods all his live used to build rods for ray rienberger in yamba so i think i got the background and experience of a reasonable crafter but am having trouble convincing people of this i wasnt planning on doing the weaves and wraps for free forever but just till i can get bit of a name for myself .

[ryansrods]

also stuart who will sell to me at wholesale prices as buying my blanks and components at retail is my biggest killa this would increase my profit margine i do have an abn if that makes a diff

[nigelr]

Good luck Ryan, you have certainly found a great mentor, something which can be totally invaluable.
Fantastic to see a young bloke having a go, being located in Yamba would also have to be a plus as far as research and development goes!
Good luck with establishing some wholesale connections, certainly help your profit margin, at the least.
Having an ABN in the name of your rod building business should be a major bonus as far as this goes.
Ryan this is prob a stupid question but just in case, do you have an accountant and are you claiming your equipment and materials costs as tax deductions?
Cheers and best of luck with your venture.

[finga]

Ryan, are you going to have a shop front (or under the house) or sell by the internet/phone??
It also makes a difference for the wholesalers if you have a place they can walk into the front door they seems to want to deal with you more.
If nobody wants to talk seriously with you in Australia go to the US.
They'll deal with you and sometimes stuff gets to you quicker then from anywhere here.
Just as an example the palm support reel seat here is $26...in the US the cost would be halved or less. Here's an example http://shop.mudhole.com/Shop-Our-Catalog/Graphite_4
As for guides compare your prices to these
http://shop.mudhole.com/Shop-Our-Catalog/Concept/BMNAG-Heavy-Spin-Cast-Guides

These are only just a couple of examples from one shop. There's lots of shops in the US
If you buy in quantities they'll talk turkey with you.
Also with these US shops take into consideration the US dollar. It's pretty good at the moment but can change.

As for the wraps/weaves have a selection on the wall for people to have a gander at and then they can make up their minds on what they want.
Not charging for them is less money in your pocket and you might as well been fishing rather then doing a weave.
Gees if your as slow as me you could write "War and Peace" in the time it takes me to do a wrap :-[
But even initials in a weave takes time...If you worked at MacDonalds or Woolies you'd be paid for the time you work so....

IMO you should charge and charge high for your craft.
When I say this the charges shouldn't be ridiculous but work out how much time it takes you to build a basic rod with no weave or wrap. Ask your self how much you need to charge for an hours work taking into consideration the overheads like electricity, rents, tax etc..then you'll get a realistic price you should be charging for the basic rod (when you add the components on).
If they want a weave or wrap etc etc then on your display you could put the prices under them. No extra money no extras.

I mean a rodbuilder (should that be Piscatorial Engineer) is a skill that not everyone can do well.
Take a builder (anybody can swing a hammer) or electrician (a trained monkey can strip a bit of wire). It takes skill, a wealth of background knowledge and experience to be good at it. And for this they charge.
Charging high (correctly is probably a better way of putting it) seems to sort the turkeys out of the henhouse and you'll seem to make just as much money doing less work.
No point in going to work if you don't get a decent reward ie cash and from experience if you charges are too low there seems to be a lot of hanger-on-er-ers that'll take advantage of you and use you until you either raise your prices or go broke and then wipe you like a dirty bum.
Trust me on this one. Been there done that :-/
Eventually I made a rule up...no mates rates unless there were 3 social visits beforehand. My 'mates' pretty well dried up overnight ;D

[Dodgy_Back]

Ryan
Although notinto rod building , I did start my own roofing company from scratch ,so the pricing and buying issues are the same thingy.

For how much to charge simply work out how much you want to get paid per hour, take in all your running costs and equate it back to hourly rates, that way you will know if you are ripping yourself off or not.

say you want to get paid $30ph then add power + this+that will get you your charge out rate.
If some one asked for a quote you will know your hourly rates plus parts.

As for buying !! start the phone calls to the wholesalers let them what you want to do, if they won't open an account for you pay for your bits upfront then work on getting an account when you prove you buy a reasonable amount of gear

If you are buying gear of retailers then onselling, there would be just too many people taking there cut out of it making your rods too expensive.

I know in the roofing buying direct can save 50% I'm sure there will be savings for you by buying direct..

Remember, work out what you need to get paid and buy direct off the wholesalers and importers.

Hope this helps

Mick

[garret]

No point in going to work if you don't get a decent reward ie cash and from experience if you charges are too low there seems to be a lot of hanger-on-er-ers that'll take advantage of you and use you until you either raise your prices or go broke and then wipe you like a dirty bum.
Trust me on this one. Been there done that :-/
Eventually I made a rule up...no mates rates unless there were 3 social visits beforehand. My 'mates' pretty well dried up overnight ;D

just to reinforce what finga said

dont ever do mates rates, a true friend is one who is quite happy to pay full price for your skills to make sure your business works, and if you want to give them a deal on your products thats fine, but no one should expect it.

if they do they aint your mates and are just trying to screw a cheap deal out of you and will dissapear like a fart in the wind when the going gets a bit rough.

[banshee]

Unfortunately the price you can charge is going to be based largly on demographics,how many rec/commercial fishermen in yamba earn the sort of money that affords them the luxury of a rod worth the sort of money mentioned?How many game boats opperate out of Iluka/Yamba?The average wage/salary just isn't the same for us (Nth NSW) as it is for people who live in S E Queensland,you may sell the odd rod to someone on hollidays for top dollar but I think you've already discovered locals are not going to pay say 3 to 4 hundred dollars for a custom surf/rock job when they can pick up a Chinese rolled Alvey for around 80 bucks,the 60 to 80 you mentioned is prety much par for what can be charged around here,any more and it's akin to pulling a broken mollar, if you want more you may have to sacrifice lifestyle and move to the big smoke.

[ryansrods]

i am already contemplating relocation probably up brisy way

[banshee]

i am already contemplating relocation probably up brisy way

If you move you may have to take a step backwards,go for a start in a well known tacle shop and do the shity stuff like rod/reel repairs,in time you shouldn't have to much trouble talking your boss into puting your work in the rack,I think Ian Miller got started at Harboard Tackle in similar circumstances.

[ryansrods]

yeh i know ive worked in the local tackle shop and built there rods on and off for the past 5 years

[PinHead]

a couple of thoughts on the business side of things...

1. Avoid accounts where possible..always get a deposit equivalent to the cost of materials before you start on the project.. Then you can pay cash for the materials and do not have to worry about all that horrible paperwork etc.

2. If people in your local area will not pay the price for a quality rod..forget them..let them buy the el cheapo gear. Think global not local...get a professional looking web site going and market via that. People will not mind paying good money for a quality product. I have purchased a Precision rod...very happy with it (cept it does not catch too many fish) but it is a great rod..it was not "cheap" but as far as I am concerned bloody good value for money.

3. Do a business plan with targets for every 6 months...and at each of those target stages see where you are at in relation to your plan...alter the plan if you have to...the old cliche..no one plans to fail but many fail to plan.

Hope it all works out for you.

[ryansrods]

hi pinhead am having bit of trouble writing business plan am a rod crafter and fisherman not much of an academic how do you get web page is this expensive

[Stuart]

Ryan

Pinhead is absolutely spot on mate. Forget about the people, who want to spend $80, your local market isn’t the world mate that’s why I spent all my time and effort marketing my product out of my local area. If you locate to Brisbane be prepared to struggle for a while as there seems to be a rod builder every second house these days. It’s a large market and equally as large with rod builders so be prepared to stick it out. As for a web site you may be better off approaching a uni student working in that area do make a web site for you…they are always looking for money. As for a business plan it would be a good idea to see a CPA accountant to get every thing set up to begin with….saves many headaches down the track mate.

If you do move up I may be able to give you some work on viewing your quality first. I’m always looking for a good rod builder to do some contract work for me.

Stu

[nigelr]

Ryan anything quality costs money, including your rods!
But spending say a grand on a 'domain' and some web-designer's time may save you moving to the smoke.
As I'm sure you are already aware, banshee is spot on re the demographics.
The big bucks just aren't as plentiful in the bush, almost irrespective of your occupation.
But as Pinhead says, with a decent website, you are effectively marketing world-wide.
You should be able to get some good shots of your rods in action in your local area, which you could use on your web page to good effect.
Just another option, anyway.
As for a business plan, doesn't have to be anything elaborate.
Just set yourself some targets over a set period of time, in order to evaluate the performance and growth of your business.
Above all, IMO, make your targets realistic. No point aiming to conquer the world market in your first year!
As an example only, with my own business (started at age 42) I set a 20 year plan.
First 5 years-establishment. Next 10 years-consolidation. Last 5 years rationalisation. So far, 10 years on, so good. I live near Urunga on the MNC NSW in a pretty financially challenged area, where there is not as lot of $$ on the ground. My first goal was merely to SURVIVE in business! I acheived this basically by admitting to myself that it would be a long slow road. As one of the Ausfish members has written on his avatar, persistance is everything!
However you must be careful with your money, inability to re-pay debt would be the major killer of small business, if you can avoid debt that will be a major plus IMO.
Also, be realistic as to what your income will be in the early stages of your business and plan your expenditure accordingly.
There are heaps of financially savvy fishers on this site, you will gets heaps of quality advice I am sure.
Cheers.

[ryansrods]

speeking about work stu is there any way i can do a week work experience with ya one day wherbouts in brisy ya located

[Stuart]

Ryan

That wouldn’t have been a problem last year as I had my own factory. Due to rent increases beyond my control I could no longer afford the rent. I’m now working from home which sux big time. I’m currently looking for a partner ship with some one to expand. Taking you on for 1 weeks work experience would be OK but not at the moment unless I get a factory with some cheap rent. I’m not in Brisbane but on the Sunshine Coast which is around 1.5 hours north.

Stu

[ryansrods]

thanks stu let me now when ya get a factory are ya looking for just a silent partner or workig partner what $$$ lookin at