worse bar crossing

[timddo]

Went out throught south passage bar. Gee's there were pressure waves one after the other. The nose of the boat pretty much dipped in the water most of the time. Waves were huge. Seabreeze said 15knots, 1.2 meter waves ( gee thy were wrong.

The question is. Once your in the middle. do you turn back or continue punching in. I had a few hairy moments, all i did was just crusie through the waves. Should i have gunned it and jumped across?

[deadbeatloser]

Went out throught south passage bar. Gee's there were pressure waves one after the other. The nose of the boat pretty much dipped in the water most of the time. Waves were huge. Seabreeze said 15knots, 1.2 meter waves ( gee thy were wrong.

The question is. Once your in the middle. do you turn back or continue punching in. I had a few hairy moments, all i did was just crusie through the waves. Should i have gunned it and jumped across?
m8 you gotta do wat you think is best in that situation to keep yourself safe.
bom does say gusts to 40% stronger and waves upto 40%larger. just check wave bouy graphs on brownies, i am always getting caught out by weather man , thats why i bought a stabicraft. and must say she likes it ruff;D

[nigelr]

Good question Tim.
Was the tide running out? If so may have made 'turning back' nigh impossible......
Personally I don't enjoy drama on the crossing, so I won't attempt it if it looks unpleasant. But I'm an old man, considerably more timid than I used too be!
Safety first is my motto, a feed of fish ain't that big a deal........
Cheers, glad you made the crossing safely. From what I've read on Ausfish, this is a very nasty bar indeed.

[revs57]

Tim,

Sounds like you hit the bar on a run out tide? If you miss slack water, where it pretty much irons itself out, the best tide is a run in.

Do yourself a favour and sign up for a day on bar crossing with Bill Corten. He's a master and everyone that makes the investment raves about it.

Cheers

Rhys

[samson]

Yep sounds like the ebb to me which ain't adviseable to barge across cruise through picking your moments to throttle until clear of break zone but all bars are different some the ebb areas can be almost avoided when coming in, the key to coming in is riding the back of the wave and not letting the one behind catch you but when it ebbs the waves are everywhere so you have to ride from the back of one to the other as the ebbs die out until you are gradually through it, but going out your almost certinly going to have to deal with it.

[FNQCairns]

I havn't crossed that bar in 15 years, it's probably now 250m from where it was:) but your senario does suck and needs to be avoided if possible.

Not enough forward motion through the water (not over ground) due the boat and water heading in the same direction. Causes the boat to wallow and snuff the bow, very poor steerage and worst of all if a wave does hit the bow with a little force the boat can be easily knocked broadside.

Wherever possible keep enough forward momentum that the boat is in immediate control. Your situation is fairly typical but a person really needs to be there to know for sure what it was like.

Good you made it with just a little bit of healthy fright, I don't think anyone who crosses bars are immune to being frightened by the experience.

cheers fnq

[The-easyrider]

In answer to your question, don't just gun it and jump across. You you need to drive up the face of the wave then just as your bow crests the wave back off the power and the boat will lay gently onto the back of the wave, then get on the gas hard and quick driving up to the next wave backing off as the the bow crests the wave again then on the go juice again you get idea.If you have to hit whitewater back off just as the bow hits the white water,do your self favor and do that that bar crossing course with Bill Corten . Once comitted dont baulk and try to turn around .

[mirage]

I'm no expert on bar crossings. But as Easyrider says, I do know the number one rule is once committed NEVER turn back. Best way to go for a swim if you do.

[timddo]

it was at the bottom of low tide in the moring. So probably the worse time you can go out.

Deadbeatloser , i don't think it's the type of boat, but size. The longer the boat the better it is. I was afraid of it rolling over.

Very hairy moment, so i went around the cape and to curtain to fish. Aroudn the cape was pretty ruff too. and bom said 1.2 and10-15.

[Jabba_]

I have read a lot about Bill Corten... How do I contact him and what does it cost($$$) to do a bar crossing coarse...

Also, do you use your boat or his... IMO, I would rather do it im my own, so I know what to expect from my own craft when the situation arises...

[Blackened]

G'day

Bill Corten.... you use his boat, it's a cruise craft.

You will find a contact number for him on these boards, do a quick search.

I think maybe budds bait and tackle may also have his number, but i'm not 100% on that.

Whats it cost?? I'm not sure but thats irrelevant. What's the gained knowledge worth to you and the potential life saving skills?

Dave

[The-easyrider]

Cost these days is about $400 ,money well spent considering whats at stake. The only draw back with useing his cruisecraft is that you will want one as well by the end of the day,best bit is if it goes wrong its not your boat. Buckets of fun I could just about buy a big cruisecraft give away the fishing and spend my time crossing the bar ,surfing for lazy blokes.;D

[Getout]

Not all boats behave the same in waves. You need to spend time in your own boat and be confident with what it can do before you take on a bar.
How you attack a bar depends on many factors. Depth of water is the most important one. Current run is another. Height of waves is another. Presence of a defined channel is another.
You need to have correct motor trim to accellerate and yes, sometimes it is best to spin around and retreat (if your boat is capable and the waves are far enough apart) rather than take on a monster and roll over backwards.
Little boats make little waves look big. Big boats make little waves look tiny.

[revs57]

Bill Corton's ph no (07) 32863647

[Brumby]

Not all boats behave the same in waves. You need to spend time in your own boat and be confident with what it can do before you take on a bar.
How you attack a bar depends on many factors. Depth of water is the most important one. Current run is another. Height of waves is another. Presence of a defined channel is another.
You need to have correct motor trim to accellerate and yes, sometimes it is best to spin around and retreat (if your boat is capable and the waves are far enough apart) rather than take on a monster and roll over backwards.
Little boats make little waves look big. Big boats make little waves look tiny.

Glad to see I'm not the only one a little uncomfortable with the "never turn back" approach. I'll be the first to admit that I haven't done much bar work (no need where I live, the Seaway hardly counts in good weather), but with plenty of time on surf launched craft, many's the time when a retreat into the intermediate zone has allowed me to pick a better gap to get out back instead of aerobatics over a monster that popped up. Admittedly, you normally have more lateral space to play with in the surf, but I reckon the sea isn't the place to be inflexible about things; assess the situation up front and if there is space and your boat is capable of turning quickly without cavitation, keep that option up your sleeve.

[Camo]

Timddo, mate do yourself a favour, if you intend to cross that bar a lot in the near future, then do Bill's course. You'll learn more about crossing bars safely, in one afternoon with Bill, than you would in years of trial and error by yourself. He is extremely professional in the way he teaches the course, and he never makes you feel like an idiot, when you make the inevitable mistake.

I've crossed that bar only about six times since I did Bill's course, and I believe that the type or design of boat makes a hell of a difference. My boat is a 6 meter Quintrex half cab, and I don't feel anywhere near as confident crossing the bar in it, as I do in Bill's Cruisecraft. Pressed alloy boats like mine have a nasty tendency to broach in a following sea, so I'm always aware of that in the back of my mind. My mate has a Cruisecraft 685 outsider and I feel very comfortable crossing the bar in it. Obviously skill level has a lot to do with that, and my skill level is not as high as some people on this board, and they probably wouldn't have any trouble crossing in my boat. In any case I think the Cruiscraft is more forgiving of a mistake than my Quintrex is. So I haven't crossed the bar as much as I wanted. I probably won't until I buy a high quality plate or glass boat. After doing the course I was almost tempted to go straight to Wynnum marine and by a new 625 outsider, I was that impressed by Bill's boat.

[timddo]

I was also told today that fibreglass boats are better for bar crossing. A centre consol or centre cab would have been half filled with water on sunday at the south passage bar. Lucky i had a half cab and was able to stread most of the water off.

for the experience skippers it probably normal, but for me it was hairy.

[Jabba_]

Thank you, thank you. and especially to Revs57 for posting Bills Number....

I will do his coarse next year. At the moment $$$ is a factor as Santa is on the way... And my only concern is my confidence in approaching breaking waves, as I am not sure how they will affect my boat, and what I can expect from my boat(Does that make sense)... I have no qualms and reading waves and locating the channel, and ID current conditions... Crikey, I have surfed near my whole life. and if I cant read the water now, I am in deep trouble no matter what...

[Redspeckle]

timddo
Which channel did you go through on the south passage bar? Amity, Middle or the Northern Channel The northern channel has the pressure waves in it there be no way trying too gunned it and jump across The pressure waves are complety different to the Surf wave so a different approach is need you need to joggle you way through it because try go over or down one they have a very step face on them and also hit one they just have as much water as surf wave and because their pressure waves they can appear and disappear right in front of you because having a tide and current /swell pushing against each other until the pressure is let go
Some times it taken me 20 minutes to get out or back through the Northern channel because pressure waves very big and close to together the only good thing about the northern channel it’s the deepest channel to cross on the south passage bar ( expect now as heading on the offshore side it towards the end has become shallower )
On the south passage bar the worse swell direction having an Eastly swell on it so check the buoy sites out before heading out over it and the tide time table
For me I like to head out through the northern channel its deepest and the safest channel I haven’t seen yet waves break in this channel The Amity channel is the surf channel and is the shallowest one on the south passage( I don’t like this one at all) The middle channel is like mixture of the Amity and Northern channel for myself I don’t’ get scared heading out because I can see what’s coming towards me but don’t like when coming back in been in situations when been on the back of wave and wave behind me is catching up but its too steep at the front to down it Just remember you have to keep the outboard leg in the clear water its control the steering of the boat because get in the turbulences water or the white bubble water you have no steering and hence lose control of the boat
I thought that I knew everything about waves/beaches/ocean conditions for being past Surf life Saver for about many years being IRB Instructor/captain and jet boat driver /crew member until I done Bill Corten’s bar crossing course learnt more and worth every cent as they saying go’s its all not the same horse’s for each course
Mitch

[Noelm]

camo, if your 'pressed alloy boat" broaches, then it is of por design or loaded incorrectly, the Material it is made out of has very little bearing on whether a Boat broaches or not, it is design, power/trim and weight distrubution that will have the most impact on broaching.

[timddo]

It was the northern channle with south easters. Lost of pressure waves. I didn't gunned it , just pretty much pressed on wave after wave. If the boat had gone side ways it would have fliped. An open tinny would have been swamped.

[Camo]

camo, if your 'pressed alloy boat" broaches, then it is of por design or loaded incorrectly, the Material it is made out of has very little bearing on whether a Boat broaches

You're right Noelm, after rereading my post I understand that it came across that way but I didn't mean that pressed boats are more susceptible to broaching’ because of the material they're made of. I simply meant that because of the way pressed boats are made, they are more suseptable to broaching. Pressed boats tend to have a wide square transom which has a very shallow V. this makes make the boat susceptible to yawing which can lead to broaching. Pressed alloy boats unlike fiberglass or quality plate boats also tend not to have a fine entry at the bow, which combined with a flare at the waterline minimises broaching in a following sea, by cutting through the waves. The sharper bow can also provide lift which prevents pitctpoling. Pitchpoling is where the boat runs down the face of a wave and buries into the trough or next wave. Pressed alloy boats tend to have a more blunt rounded bow. It's hard for plate builders to produce that flare in a plate boat, but some builders have managed to do it. If you look at a quality plate boat like a Rip tide you will see they have put a slight flare which has been cleverly turned down from the keel to the outside chine. You won't see this in pressed boats. I'm not having a go at pressed boats, all boats have limitations you should just be aware of them.

[TOPAZ]

Hi All,

Something which hasn't been mentioned here, and which I used to stress to students when I was teaching Safe Boating, was to pause inside the bar and watch the pattern of the waves for a few minutes - there is usually one route through which is easier than others, and this can usually be seen with a few minutes observation.


Richard.

[outsiderskip]

hi timddo
bar are always worse on ebb tides
but u must have the power when u make a decision
on crossing bars i have turned back a number of times but when in doubt dont cross common sense each person knows their capabalities and most of all know how your boat performs

pete