Diving Groups join AMCS in a bid to close the bay

[Adamy]

For immediate release 20th November




Divers and Fishermen at war over Moreton Bay
Diving groups have declared war on recreational fishermen in a greedy grab for private dive zones in Moreton Bay as part of the marine park rezoning.


Dive industry leaders met with extremist environmental lobby group AMCS on Monday night to plan strategies designed in inflict maximum damage on the recreational fishing industry.


“This is headed for a serious showdown”, said Australian Fishing & Lifestyle Party Senate Candidate Kevin Collins. “they sit in these meetings and make unilateral decisions to push for the banning of recreational fishing in vast areas inside and offshore based solely on where they want to dive and where they want fishing excluded is an outrage”.


Identified areas include almost all the popular fishing sites
Extensions to current Grey Nurse Sharks aggregation sites; Flat Rock, Hendersons Rock, Cherubs Cave, Manta Ray Bommies, the China Wall including all the kelp grounds and all rocky pinnacles to the East of Moreton Island. They also want to close off the wrecks surrounding Smith Rock such as St Paul and the Marrietta Del. They also asked for increased policing and harsher penalties to enforce closures.


Inside the bay they are asking for the ledge that runs along Moreton Island from Cowan Cowan to the Curtin Artificial Reef and the Pines. The AMCS declared that their "jewel" in the crown of Moreton Bay that they want closed to all fishing activities is the banks area: including Amity, pelican, the chain banks, all the way down to and including Peel Island. In the southern part of the bay, they called for additional protection for mangroves, wading bird and nursery areas.


“The rezoning of Moreton Bay is supposed to be about science, not about favoured treatment of one user group over another”, he said.


Craig Bohme, AMCS spokesperson encouraged divers to collect photos of lost tackle and anchors for publicity. In the meeting he shut down complaints about turtle deaths caused by trawl operation explaining that the AMCS strategy is to refrain from attacking commercial fishing. That would result in yellow zones with no commercial fishing and not their goal of green zones that banned all fishing.
One AMCS executive revealed that their real goal was 100% closure of the Bay to family fishing.


The meeting focussed on the ploy of using Grey Nurse Sharks as a ploy to demand closures. One senior dive researcher revealed that it was the excess number of divers and their behaviour represented a far greater danger to Grey Nurse sharks than fishing ever could.



Collins said the AFLP had bitten its tongue over the impacts of divers continually harassing Grey Nurse Sharks in the shark protection zones but the meeting Monday night signalled that the gloves are off.


“We had previously made a determination that we would try to represent all user groups of our great outdoors. Clearly the Dive industry has a different and selfish agenda. They need to now be ready to justify why they can continue to dive in marine protected areas” he said. “Protected should mean protected, not just from fishing but diving as well”.

ends
Media Contact: Kevin Collins 0414 785 462
media@aflp.org.au

Recreational fishing is worth $320m to the Qld economy (Source FRDC)
25% of Queenslanders go fishing once a year or more.

[Hunta]

That was quick, you guys must be well connected! I had a friend in the dive industry who attended that meeting last night and I was going to put up a post on it today.

Apparently the divers don’t only want all the good natural reef dive areas, but they also want the artificial reefs like Curtin and many of the better wrecks, both inside the bay and offshore. So it wouldn’t matter if we created arties or not, they would still want them as well.

One interesting thing he told me was that the AMCS was saying that there is some new scientific evidence now to suggest that fish are starting to stay within the protected zones and not leave. They cited a study on Tailor done in Africa or somewhere where the Tailor stopped migrating outside the green zones. So what they try and tell fishers about spillover wont happen, the fish will simply stay in the green zone out of reach of the fishers.

The divers will be putting in a claim to close off massive areas, widen the flat rock, hendersons, manta ray bommies etc and join them into one massive no fishing zone and once they have closed these areas they will ask the state Govt to put in more mooring points for divers to protect the reef from anchor damage. They are saying that there is too much fishing litter; hooks, sinkers, lures anchors etc hanging all over their favourite dive sites and that’s why these areas need to be closed.

He also said that Craig Bohme said that the jewel inside the bay for the AMCS is the banks; chain, pelican, middle etc. They have a map which covers the whole area including Peel island in a massive exclusion zone. Think about it if they close all this area, you wont be able to fish for winter whiting and access to the south passage bar will be restricted – so by closing off this area, they will effectively close many others.

It was a 2-3 hour meeting but those are the highlights that he could tell me, he’s a diver so I guess he was pretty happy about it all. He also sent me the dive industry proposal paper on it, interesting reading!

[luigi]

Hmmmmm, I seem to recall that dive & tour groups all supported establishment of Green Zones on the Great Barrier Reef also.>:(

I can only hope that recreational fishers & others get off their bums to support the AFLP in this fight & into the future.

This is a prime example as to why we need KC & the AFLP in the Senate.

We have the numbers so let's do it.

Please make your vote count on Saturday.


Cheers - Lou

[fishingjew]

The Moreton Bay Marine Parks are currently under review and URGQ (Underwater Research Group of Qld) in conjunction with other independent clubs of SE Qld have provided a position paper to the EPA encouraging them to provide more green zones and also recommended the provision of mooring buoys to protect some of the more popular divesites. This is the link to the position paper http://www.urgq.org/images/Final%20Position%20Paper.pdf (http://www.urgq.org/images/Final%20Position%20Paper.pdf).

http://www.diveoz.com.au/discussion_forums/topic.asp?whichpage=1&TOPIC_ID=16755&#154950

One out all out .

[Shane_78]

http://www.customercommunity.com.au/communities/images/130/AMcLogoSmall.jpg MEDIA RELEASE

20 November 2007


Conservationists and recreational divers align on Moreton Bay Protection
Conservationists and recreational divers met yesterday to discuss priority areas needing greater protection in Moreton Bay Marine Park. The meeting was held in response to calls from the Queensland Government for interest groups to submit proposals as part of the current review of the Moreton Bay Marine Park Zoning Plan.
Craig Bohm, National Campaigns Director with the Australian Marine Conservation Society said "We welcome discussions with Moreton Bay's recreational dive community. Divers are an important stakeholder not least because they are our eyes under the water. They can tell us how damaged Moreton Bay's reefs really are."
Bohm said, "Divers told us that there are far fewer fish being seen at reefs than in the past and that high levels of fishing debris are now found on most dive reefs. This was concerning to both divers and conservationists."
"The groups identified several high priority areas which are important to divers and to conservationists due to their unique environmental values. These included Flinders Reef/Cherubs Reef/ Henderson's Reef and China Wall complex north and east of Moreton Island, Flat Rock and the Manta Ray Bommies found just north of North Stradbroke Island and Curtin Artificial Reef and 'the Pines' on the western side of Moreton Island," Bohm continued.
The groups also discussed the need for a Code of Conduct for diving on Moreton Bay's reefs in recognition of the need to manage all activities at Moreton Bay's precious reefs.
"Conservationists welcomed that the divers acknowledged their potential impacts on reefs at the meeting at recognized that a Code of Conduct was needed to manage diver activities in Moreton Bay Marine Park," Bohm said.
"When managed properly, diving is a very sustainable activity and has great tourism potential for Queensland's economy. It is important that the Queensland Government listen to our concerns and focus on bringing back the fish at Moreton Bay's popular dive sites," Bohm concluded.
Groups present at the meeting were the Australian Marine Conservation Society, Australian Underwater Federation (Queensland), Gold Coast and Hinterland Environment Council, Moreton Bay Coastcarers, Queensland Conservation Council, Queensland Water and Land Carers, Underwater Research Group of Queensland Wildlife Preservation Society of Queensland, Queensland Conservation Council, Moreton Bay Boat Club (dive group).
Moreton Bay Marine Park is currently under review by the Queensland Government. The review of the Moreton Bay Marine Park Zoning Plan is likely to see a greater number and coverage of green zones across the Park and conservationists and divers have been asked by the Queensland Government for their considered input to the review process.

[Shane_78]

One interesting thing he told me was that the AMCS was saying that there is some new scientific evidence now to suggest that fish are starting to stay within the protected zones and not leave. They cited a study on Tailor done in Africa or somewhere where the Tailor stopped migrating outside the green zones. So what they try and tell fishers about spillover wont happen, the fish will simply stay in the green zone out of reach of the fishers.

Spillover means that once the fish get too abundant in the protected area they "spillover" (hence the term).

[Shane_78]

I got that media release this morning (from the email sign up I did) so I guess the meeting wasn't so secret considering they also discussed what sites they are looking at... And are we really surprised Divers want more green zones? I speak to fishers who want more green zones so it doesn't surprise me at all.
Also why are we talking about them not focusing on commercial fishing when rec fishers have alligned themselves with the commercials!!!!! If we wanted them to target commercials then we shouldn't have alligned with the commercials as now we are under the radar too.

[Scott nthQld]

this is BS, divers have the same if not more impact on the fish stocks than rec fisho's. They say they just take photo's and look, but they still drop their anchors on the reefs, they poke around into every nook and cranny looking for fish, they move rock, coral and sediments that have settled where as a fisherman will drop a line down with a sinker, and a couple of hooks, which will usually erode away after a period o time, and what d we take? A feed of bloody fish, not molluscs, corals and other organisms that are more important to the reefs survival.

Diver also interfer more with GNS than the odd fisherman accidently hooking one, they move right up close and disturb their breeding habits and nursery sites, all for the thrill of it, with no regard for the animals themselves. Let alone the divrs that feed the sharks, this just encourages them to get used to people, getting them to learn that if there's people about, there's an easy meal to follow. This will either lead to an attack or more sharks dying due to the fact that if the people stop coming, they won't be able to feed themselves. And these are the people who are trying to 'save' the species.

If 'green' zones are goig to be enforced, it should include ALL interference with the area, not just fishing, that my freinds is why we have anti-discrimination laws. And thats all this is based on, discrimination, the grren groups don't like what we do (and thats fine, everyone is entitled to their own opinion) so to stop it they make us out to be monsters, trying to insight hatred towards us and it looks like they've done it successfully so far, last time I looked, you could go to gaol for that, they must've come to that conclusion as well, which is why they hide behind a political banner.

[Derek Bullock]

I got that media release this morning (from the email sign up I did) so I guess the meeting wasn't so secret considering they also discussed what sites they are looking at... And are we really surprised Divers want more green zones? I speak to fishers who want more green zones so it doesn't surprise me at all.
Also why are we talking about them not focusing on commercial fishing when rec fishers have alligned themselves with the commercials!!!!! If we wanted them to target commercials then we shouldn't have alligned with the commercials as now we are under the radar too.

The reason we should be joining together with Commercial Fishers and other interest groups is because this whole arguemnt should be about sustainability for all.

No one group should have a monopoly.

We should be able to wet a line and they should be allowed to earn a living.

Science has proven that both occupations are sustainable and we should be relying on that scientific evidence, not the whim of a few self interest groups.

[Hunta]

I got that media release this morning (from the email sign up I did) so I guess the meeting wasn't so secret considering they also discussed what sites they are looking at... And are we really surprised Divers want more green zones? I speak to fishers who want more green zones so it doesn't surprise me at all.
Also why are we talking about them not focusing on commercial fishing when rec fishers have alligned themselves with the commercials!!!!! If we wanted them to target commercials then we shouldn't have alligned with the commercials as now we are under the radar too.

It was secret BEFORE the meeting, not AFTER it - because they didnt want fishos busting in on them. I guess secret also referred to the fact that it wasnt announced beforehand and open to anybody!!

Anyway, its not surprising the AMCS and divers are joining forces, what is surprising is some of the new information regarding "spillover", we are all well aware of what it is - but the AMCS is now saying (at least in closed circles) that spillover isnt occurring and wont neccessarily occur.

Another thing of surprise at least to me is an open admission, again in closed circles, that they really want 100% closures.

Also of surprise is the wholesale land grab the divers want, which is pretty much any good piece of ground with decent visibility, they arent really interested in the shallow murkey stuff, they arent in it for "biodiversity" only for their own selfish gains. These guys are jealous of anyone who is on their spots, like any fisho they think they own certain spots. They dont even like other divers diving in their favorite locations.

Selfish!!

[jman2016]

Divide and conquer!

[Shane_78]

Science has proven that both occupations are sustainable and we should be relying on that scientific evidence, not the whim of a few self interest groups.

Firstly what are we if we are not a self interest group? Secondly last time I looked the science was telling us that we need marine protected areas. We may have a handful of scientists coming out and saying the opposite to the avalanche of other scientists but the fact comes down to it that overwhelming evidence supports marine protected areas whilst only a handful of others say they aren't effective. In the last 10 years the amount of overfished fisheries in Australia has increased 3 fold! Something clearly ain't working. And as for the conservation groups supposedly saying 100% protection sunfish are saying they want 100% access.

I too want access but if there are no bloody fish what's the point?

[Shane_78]

No one group should have a monopoly.


Seems to me some people on this forum want exactly that.

[PinHead]

Seems to me some people on this forum want exactly that.

no one wants a monopoly..except the AMCS..bugger em...and exactly what research tells you that areas are fished out ??? Perhaps the handful of scientists that you discount may be correct and the majority wrong..it has happened many times previously in various fields.
If these zones are closed then closed for all..commercial, rec , divers, tourist boats..the lot..no one at all in them...then see the hue and cry from one and all.

[Almako]

I fish and i dive, i carry both gear on board and on occasions have done both in one day.
If we need conservation then perticular areas should be closed to all for a period of time and then reopened when flourishing, whilst closing off another area to recover. We all use the bay and we all want it to stay beatiful for the next generation, so whatever we do lets do it right. :)

[Blueroo]

The divers are showing their true colours again just like with the grey nurse debacle.
The EPA has been tooo quiet and the AMCS tooo noisy. Very suspicious.

Its time to hook up the boats and surround parliament house (without annoying Joe Public of course). Raise our profile on a united front and get some people power going on.

Stue

[Derek Bullock]

Shane

I personally think that position by Sunfish is wrong.

I believe that our waterways and our lands do need some form of protecting and I believe that doesn't come from total lockouts. I believe there are some marine ecosystems that need protecting and I believe that some green zones are necessary to achieve that. Good science will tell us that.

However I also believe that everyone needs to take a good look at what "they" are doing to our environment. There is a link on here to a dive site forum where you can read of a diver going down and finding devastation from where an anchor has dragged through pristine coral. Thats wrong and thats something that can be stopped through education. Not locking it up in a green zone because of senseless carelesness by a few.

We need to look at the devestation of mangrove forests and weed beds. That needs to be stopped. We need to look at polution going into the waterways. That needs to stop.

It's not the fishers destroyng the ecosystems on the water, although as indicated above they have some contributing blame.

It's the same on the land. We are forever losing animal and bird habitat. Bob Lee and I have argued over the red gum wetlands along the Murray. That habitat is the only homes to some already endangered species. Thats why we need National Parks to protect particular ecosystems on the land. However those National Parks need to be properly managed so that we have acces to them. Not locked up because a certain percentage of people decide that they want to rip tear and bust with 4WD's and destroy them.

I believe that hunters should be allowed in National Parks to remove feral animals. I understand it already works in Victoria to some extent. I term a hunter as a registered member of an approved shooting club or association and holding the proper qualifications and licenses.

I could go on forever but to often in this country we seem to do little about the causes of the devastation yet hammer everyone because of them.

The big thing for me is sustainability backed by science. By using that I beleieve we can ALL access the water and the land in a sensible way.

[Chris Ryan]

..and in that post Derek - you have summed up the exact reason why the AFLP was set up, what the AFLP believe in and what the AFLP are fighting for.

The content in your last sentence -

The big thing for me is sustainability backed by science. By using that I beleieve we can ALL access the water and the land in a sensible way.
is the message the AFLP have been promoting around the States we are running in - and it is now flowing over to others we are not. I am taking calls from around the country on this now which shows the message is working and getting through.

Let's hope this reflects in the polls on Saturday.

[Jeremy]

Firstly what are we if we are not a self interest group? Secondly last time I looked the science was telling us that we need marine protected areas. We may have a handful of scientists coming out and saying the opposite to the avalanche of other scientists but the fact comes down to it that overwhelming evidence supports marine protected areas whilst only a handful of others say they aren't effective. In the last 10 years the amount of overfished fisheries in Australia has increased 3 fold! Something clearly ain't working. And as for the conservation groups supposedly saying 100% protection sunfish are saying they want 100% access.

I too want access but if there are no bloody fish what's the point?

Just exactly what is this scientific evidence. I have heard about it but never actually seen it. Can you please quote the peer reviewed papers you are referring to?

Also, which fish species in Moreton bay are overfished or threatened? The answer is none. There are no studies which suggest that any of the commercial or rec species in Moreton Bay are overfished or threatened. The currrent bag and size limits imposed by the DPI&F are working to ensure sustanable fisheries.

Finally, how will green zones prevent pollution and over-development, two of the biggest threats to Moreton Bay. Green zones are just an easy way to stop fishing and make it look like something is being done, when in fact nothing is further from the truth.

Looking forward to your reply.

Jeremy

[luigi]

Its time to hook up the boats and surround parliament house (without annoying Joe Public of course). Raise our profile on a united front and get some people power going on.

Stue


Hey Stue, we've been there & done that on many occasions with little result.

As I see it, we have a good opportunity to try the political path in the Senate.

We have nothing to lose but a great deal to gain by voting in the Australian Fishing & Lifestyle Party on Saturday.

Cheers - Lou

[Boblee]

Saw a few similar examples of this where areas were being set aside for exclusive diving use down the West Coast esp Ningaloo Reef.
Think the tourist operators had a bit to do with it, nothing works as well at stopping these unfair lockouts as having your own politician.
Can't believe it but even agree with Derek on something, we as hunters/fishermen have more to gain by good conservation practices than any other section of the community but not to sure about throwing in with commercial operators.

[Lovey80]

Derek we have locked horns in the past but we are both on the same page with your last post.

Well said!

Cheers Chris

[Luc]

This email shows that for those wanting to lock up the bay, anything's fair!!

Luc

From: Kevin Chard
Sent: Thursday, 22 November 2007 7:01 AM
To: 'Keith Hall'
Cc: 'David Welch'; 'Adam Smith'
Subject: RE: Moreton Bay Marine Park Rezoning

Keith,
I thought I would provide an update on the position paper circulated by the Deb Ashton of the Underwater Research Group, relating to Moreton Bay and claiming endorsement from the AUFQ.
While something more formal will issue later I would appreciate if you would consider the following;
-The position paper is not supported or endorsed in any way by the Australian Underwater Federation – Queensland.
-The author has been approached and agreed to circulate a retraction that the position paper does not have the support of the AUFQ.

This attempt to provide legitimacy to a radical, unscientific and emotive submission by utilizing the bona fides of the AUFQ is regarded as a serious matter by our organization.

The AUF is a member of Sunfish and Recfish Australia and for views generally on Marine Park proposals please refer to either the Recfish Website

http://www.recfish.com.au/policies/index.html (http://www.recfish.com.au/policies/index.html)

Or the AUF Website which incorporates a recent presentation by Dr Adam Smith, the AUF Commissioner for Spearfishing presented at a recent Recfish conference on MPA proposals

http://www.auf-spearfishing.com.au/ (http://www.auf-spearfishing.com.au/)

Regards,

Kevin Chard
Assistant Commissioner – Spearfishing AUFQ
Ph 07 55303077
Mob 0407132307
Fax 07 55303577
email

[Luc]

Dereck,

You stated "I personally think that position by Sunfish is wrong."

The reason SUNFISH did not sign off on the proposal is because there is no sound scientific evidence that green zones are required.

The bay fishery is well regulated and DPI&F's own report shows that rec fishos are not depleting the Moreton Bay fish stocks.

If the EPA, AMCC etc are really concerned about the health of the bay, banning fishing will not do anything to reduce pollution, habitat destruction, siltation etc...

If the "greenies" are truly concerned about the health of the bay, barrier reef, hervey bay etc.. they would be putting all their efforts to fighting pollution, habitat destruction, siltation, etc...

It seems that the justification for closing down good fishing areas is that they are good fishing areas.

Luc

[jez and suze]

wow....suze and i are getting our scuba tickets this weekend but only so we can see where the fish are hiding.

[Jeremy]

Shane_78, where are you hiding? You have had over 48 hours to reply with the scientific evidence and a list of the fish species overfished. Still waiting......

Jeremy

[Poodroo]

It was secret BEFORE the meeting, not AFTER it - because they didnt want fishos busting in on them. I guess secret also referred to the fact that it wasnt announced beforehand and open to anybody!!

Anyway, its not surprising the AMCS and divers are joining forces, what is surprising is some of the new information regarding "spillover", we are all well aware of what it is - but the AMCS is now saying (at least in closed circles) that spillover isnt occurring and wont neccessarily occur.

Another thing of surprise at least to me is an open admission, again in closed circles, that they really want 100% closures.

Also of surprise is the wholesale land grab the divers want, which is pretty much any good piece of ground with decent visibility, they arent really interested in the shallow murkey stuff, they arent in it for "biodiversity" only for their own selfish gains. These guys are jealous of anyone who is on their spots, like any fisho they think they own certain spots. They dont even like other divers diving in their favorite locations.

Selfish!!

I really wonder just how many people who are greenies and are part of the dive groups enjoy a regular feast of fish on the dinner table?

Poodroo

[Boblee]

Spot on LUC especially.


If the "greenies" are truly concerned about the health of the bay, barrier reef, hervey bay etc.. they would be putting all their efforts to fighting pollution, habitat destruction, siltation, etc...

It seems that the justification for closing down good fishing areas is that they are good fishing areas.

Luc

[Moonlighter]

Hi everyone
Below is the text of a Media release issued 23/11/07 by MBAA

Grant


MORETON BAY ACCESS ALLIANCE CONDEMNS
DIVERS’ GRAB FOR EXCLUSIVE ACCESS TO BAY

THE Moreton Bay Access Alliance (MBAA) has condemned a submission from the Underwater Research Group (URG) which seeks to shut all other groups out of many areas of Moreton Bay.

MBAA spokesperson, Bruce Alvey, said the URG was a small, unrepresentative group within the dive sector, backed by the anti-fishing Australian Marine Conservation Society, which has proposed a large part of the Bay, including shallow reefs and wrecks popular with both fishers and divers, be included in green zones to exclude all fishing.

Mr Alvey said it was disappointing the URG was waging a purely political campaign that had nothing to do with science or sustainability.

“They are abusing the review process in a cynical attempt to secure exclusive access to these areas for themselves,” said Mr Alvey.

“MBAA has conducted independent scientific research into the Bay and worked closely with many key stakeholders to develop a plan to ensure its future environmental sustainability and, at the same time, strived to ensure the community can continue to enjoy the social and economic benefits it provides to all sectors.

"In an attempt to be as inclusive as possible, we asked anti-fishing groups like AMCS to contribute to this important work, however, they didn't bother to respond to our invitation. This latest grab for territory explains that refusal.

“MBAA understands the peak dive group, the Australian Underwater Federation Queensland, has demanded the AMCS and URG remove any suggestion that the AUFQ supports their proposals, describing the URG as using the Federations' good name in an attempt to provide legitimacy to a radical, unscientific and emotive submission.”

For more information contact

Bruce Alvey 3271 2844 or 0427 170 956